Gonne be honest, I have no idea what you mean by floaty.
Strikes do not feel very impactful, with little weight. I can only explain it with examples. GW2 combat is slightly floaty. MHW combat has more weight. It's just the impression that the combat leaves, nothing objective to it.
Hey, I'm glad you're debating a game's mechanics in prelaunch. You said you didn't play it. The devs are are working on it.
The fact is, there was an open beta... you didnt play it. I personally NEVER preorder or FUND a game (I have offered to fund development hours on established launched games to fix stuff for the community).
So I am not endorsing this game, but it is a rare gem that will make it to market and not be a total POS.
This game is launching... unlike so many others.
I did mention that I was relaying things I heard from others in YT videos. What you quote here is just my follow-up explanation to Ungood about what I understand by "floaty". I also mentioned I personally have no problem with floatier combat systems. I liked GW2 and Wildstar. I do not believe they will have a chance to change this at this point in the development process.
I absolutely give them props on many levels: they are further along in development, they are way more transparent, and they are drama-free compared to many other KS projects. I am looking forward to trying it out - when it releases, not before!
Please don't get pulled in by the overly positive spin.
The combat at the moment in Crowfall is nowhere near the same level of polish as GW2 and Wildstar, like seriously sub-par in comparision. And this is one of its many problems: basically every game mechanic is far worse than in any other comparable game and it brings nothing really good or new to the table.
It is actually NOT a good game for people who like RvR. The main gamemode is a guild based full-loot pvp map. The RvR map/mechanic is laughably bad compared to ESO, GW2 or WAR, and the lag/desync is much worse than in those games.
It kind of all over the place in terms of game design, like someone has grabbed cans of their favorite gameplay mechanics and splashed them randomly across the canvas.
Also note that Crowfall has actually received more funding than CU, contrary to what the hype machine posted.
And as I've said before I think game companies shouldn't show their games to the public until they are done. A certain demographic of players just can't handle it.
In the case of crowdfunded projects, the initial money they get from backers is often used as a proof that the project can be popular, to later attract major investors. If game studios have nothing to show to the potential backers, they will likely fail to attract them and their wallet, and therefor lose opportunities with investors.
That's absolutely true. I would say they should show it to their backers and investors and that's about it.
I would also say that they make it abundantly clear to their backers that things can and WILL change and that deadlines are not set in stone.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I can't tell if I am on the CU or the PRotF topic, still working on my 1st cup of coffee, and they both look vastly the same as far as outrage goes, I wager for largely the same reasons.
Anyway, for anyone wondering, playing Crowfall graybox, was awesome!
I sincerely think that these Crowed Funded developers would be better served to take a good look at how Crowfall did things, and even a in rough, raw, and unfinished state, they let their backers jump into a Graybox World and play, just to get a feel for what is going on.
For me personally, It was really cool to see the game evolve as I played it, going into the main keep and seeing the details get added with each update.. like "Ooo so that is what those statues are supposed to look like"
Even things like "Ah I see we don't have the endless mats button enabled anymore, gonna have to see how this is really supposed to work. off to break some stones"
It was things like that, was just this really great experience for me with Crowfall, which is why I defend the game, even if it is not "Live" yet. I've played it, albeit in a rough state, like being on a construction site watching the whole building form around you, it's really an amazing experience to witness that for a game.
And Perhaps other developers really should pull a leaf from Crowfall's book and start to the same, it would do a great deal to quell the people who want to see what the game is like and what progress is being made in a real time feeling.
Just my feels on the matter.
Just say you know, CU has been open to all backers every weekend for months now. We just got access to a new zone this past weekend (which was streamed on Friday by CSE), and giants were made playable just two weekends ago. There's basic crafting, 100% destructible buildings, a keep capture system, a power grid that you can build and destroy. There's a lot going on, albeit "rough" as you say, and it's all accessible to every level of backer every weekend.
That is awesome to hear!
When they can keep that open all week long, I'll be willing to toss them some backer money and check things out.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
As noted, Mark is way behind on processing refund requests put in almost a year ago, no telling how long a new request put in today might take.
Ah I see. Did not know that. That really sucks then.
Well, on the other hand, even having the option for a refund for Kickstarter pledges is truly unique. Just try to find another developer that even offers this.
In any case, this is a lot of complaining about only seeing concept art and no game, yet the very same day, they streamed footage of a new area while it was open for any backer at all to log in and check out, which also includes a new giant races that grows over time as your character progresses (which means they also have progression on). The comments in this thread are just people who gets kicks out of bashing everything they come across.
The offer of an option for a refund becomes worthless when they never actually pay them, which is currently the case.
MJ is still working through those submitted back in Feb 2019 and clearly is in no hurry to make good on them any time soon.
This game is deserves all of the bashing it gets, been a huge pack of lies since day one, or a one of the worst cases of developer incompetence in software development history.
Seven years in, going on eight, no end in sight.
But feel free to keep bending over and ask for another.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The offer of an option for a refund becomes worthless when they never actually pay them, which is currently the case.
MJ is still working through those submitted back in Feb 2019 and clearly is in no hurry to make good on them any time soon.
This game is deserves all of the bashing it gets, been a huge pack of lies since day one, or a one of the worst cases of developer incompetence in software development history.
Seven years in, going on eight, no end in sight.
But feel free to keep bending over and ask for another.
If I'm correct Mark goes to the office to refund backers almost every week-end and he's the only one who can process them (each refund has to be completed manually). It's comprehensible that he's still working on refunds submitted in Feb 2020 since it's at that time that they announced FS:R (very large wave of refunds in early February, certainly more than they could chew). From 2013-2019 the refund policy (90 days max) was honored afaik but now there are just too many of them and it's taking an abnormally long time.
Can you give us examples of lies you accuse the studio of?
Can you give us examples of lies you accuse the studio of?
Pulling up a chair and grabbing some popcorn.
Puts out a couple of Cokes on the table to share and takes a bowl of that fine looking popcorn.
Waits for some good arguments why manually processing anything of this magnitude in a professional business project isn't worthy of scathing criticism and rebuke. Taking notes!
Manual processing *AND* a single person working that problem. Isn't there someone to delegate that menial task to?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Can you give us examples of lies you accuse the studio of?
.
How about this one from the Kickstarter page? Om April 2013 when the KS started, the $25 pledge that got you just the game and Beta 3 access, had Sept 2015 as the Beta delivery date and December 2015 as the game delivery date.
If you get together with a friend and use all your fingers and toes you will see that he was saying that he could develop an MMO from KS to delivery in 20 months.
I'm not talking about delays here, just that initial estimate that a tiny team with little cash could develop an MMO in 20 months.
I could see a young child being so optimistic and full of himself that he could think 20 months for an MMO is doable. But what do you call it when a middle aged developer who had run studios and developed MMOs in the past gives you that estimate as he asks for money? Hint: begins with "L."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Mythic, Mark's former studio, created a full-fledged MMO, DaoC, in just 18 months and $2,5M budget. And it included PvE, which takes a lot of time to design and implement, while CU barely have PvE (except in the Depths). So I understand how they could be optimistic with CU, even though they needed to create an engine from scratch (at the beginning it was supposed to be a relatively straightforward engine that does specifically what they want it to do, i.e. 500 players battles at 30 FPS). Were the delivery dates given during the Kickstarter too optimistic? I think they were. But it's different than saying that the studio lied.
I could see a young child being so optimistic and full of himself that he could think 20 months for an MMO is doable. But what do you call it when a middle aged developer who had run studios and developed MMOs in the past gives you that estimate as he asks for money? Hint: begins with "L."
"Laudable", hmm no; "Legitimate", eeks no?...hmm "Laughable", that's it.
Mythic, Mark's former studio, created a full-fledged MMO, DaoC, in just 18 months and $2,5M budget. And it included PvE, which takes a lot of time to design and implement, while CU barely have PvE (except in the Depths). So I understand how they could be optimistic with CU, even though they needed to create an engine from scratch (at the beginning it was supposed to be a relatively straightforward engine that does specifically what they want it to do, i.e. 500 players battles at 30 FPS). Were the delivery dates given in Kickstarter too optimistic? I think they were. But it's different than saying that the studio lied.
I am not as negative as some on here about this; pining down where lies and mis-management may have occurred, but that's not the main take from this. There have been huge mistakes whatever the providence of those "mistakes". Every CF MMO now has a huge question mark over its head. One that asks will it actually launch and what sort of game will players get if it does so? Those which have launched like SotA are barely creaking along, Albion doing somewhat well but hardly stellar.
Mythic, Mark's former studio, created a full-fledged MMO, DaoC, in just 18 months and $2,5M budget. And it included PvE, which takes a lot of time to design and implement, while CU barely have PvE (except in the Depths). So I understand how they could be optimistic with CU, even though they needed to create an engine from scratch (at the beginning it was supposed to be a relatively straightforward engine that does specifically what they want it to do, i.e. 500 players battles at 30 FPS). Were the delivery dates given in Kickstarter too optimistic? I think they were. But it's different than saying that the studio lied.
I am not as negative as some on here about this, but every CF MMO not launched now has a huge question mark over its head. One that asks will it actually launch and what sort of game will players get if it does so?
Yea, well almost all CF MMOs still haven't launched, except Albion Online, Life is Feudal and Elite: Dangerous. It seems CF really doesn't help to get games launched in a reasonable timeframe. Spending so much time on live streams, newsletters, social medias, making important changes to the game based on players' feedback, opening and maintaining test servers, creating scenarios and maps for testers, etc. are a huge time and resources sink imo.
Mythic, Mark's former studio, created a full-fledged MMO, DaoC, in just 18 months and $2,5M budget. And it included PvE, which takes a lot of time to design and implement, while CU barely have PvE (except in the Depths). So I understand how they could be optimistic with CU, even though they needed to create an engine from scratch (at the beginning it was supposed to be a relatively straightforward engine that does specifically what they want it to do, i.e. 500 players battles at 30 FPS). Were the delivery dates given in Kickstarter too optimistic? I think they were. But it's different than saying that the studio lied.
I am not as negative as some on here about this, but every CF MMO not launched now has a huge question mark over its head. One that asks will it actually launch and what sort of game will players get if it does so?
Yea, well almost all CF MMOs still haven't launched, except Albion Online, Life is Feudal and Elite: Dangerous. It seems CF really doesn't help to get games launched in a reasonable timeframe. Spending so much time on live streams, newsletters, social medias, making important changes to the game based on players' feedback, opening and maintaining test servers, creating scenarios and maps for testers, etc. are a huge time and resources sink imo.
ED was only about a quarter CF, don't know about LiF, I do think that makes a big difference to the quality of the product and it seems how soon it gets out the door. Still I will accept its a "MMO" (a space MMO is not quite a proper MMORPG for me) which launched and did well.
Mythic, Mark's former studio, created a full-fledged MMO, DaoC, in just 18 months and $2,5M budget. And it included PvE, which takes a lot of time to design and implement, while CU barely have PvE (except in the Depths). So I understand how they could be optimistic with CU, even though they needed to create an engine from scratch (at the beginning it was supposed to be a relatively straightforward engine that does specifically what they want it to do, i.e. 500 players battles at 30 FPS). Were the delivery dates given during the Kickstarter too optimistic? I think they were. But it's different than saying that the studio lied.
This was amazingly insightful, and I want to thank you for putting this out, as truth be told this really shows exactly where Mark was coming from, as he had historically done exactly what he said he could do, in the time he gave himself to do it.
Seems like he was being totally honest and legit in his own listed expectations based on what he had done in the past.
I see no problem with that.
So, I guess the question at this point becomes, what went so horribly assbackwards wrong with CU, that we are sitting here 5 years later, with no viable product.
I suppose that is really where things start to fall apart as the delays keep piling up, I mean if he had done, and could do something similar in a roughly 2 year timeframe, even if he doubled that expectation, to say, 4 years overall, that still would have given us a game that should have launched in 2017, yet here we are, in 2021, with no game in sight.
While I am not calling Mark a lair, I do firmly believe that his backers have every right to be justifiably pissed at his presented incompetence on this project... don't you?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Despite all the problems with development, Camelot Unchained remains the only MMORPG that I am still excited for. I havent funded it at all, so the delays don't bother me, I'm not out of any money.
Why am I still excited?
1) It is genuinely massively multiplayer!
The unique selling point of our genre is rarely utilised, let alone the focus of the game. Not so with CU. 1000+ player battles on a regular basis, with the tools and the design in place to (hopefully) make it fun. We've literally never seen this before.
2) Deep combat mechanics
This is a personal requirement of mine, and I've not seen it in years. They've designed a combat system where decision making, and not gear or physical skills, determines the outcome. Lots of class interdependency should also mean lots of group tactics and coordination.
3) Horizontal Progression!!!!!
It's finally happening! What I've been asking for for years is finally getting delivered. An entire game built around horizontal progression. Stated dev goal is max 10% power difference between players. I can't wait.
4) Objective-based open world PvP.
Another personal requirement, I love large scale fights over keeps and objectives, rather than just a grand deathmatch. With an added bonus, the players get to design and build the objectives, as well as destroy them with siege weapons. The MMO community has long asked for the ability to affect the game world and truly inhabit it. Well, CU is delivering.
5) Crafter based economy
This isn't going to be a loot-focused game. No epic drops. Crafters will have their own class and everything that players use will be made and sold by a crafter. This is great, whilst Im not a crafter myself I am a fan of craft-based economies. Given that the crafters will be able to design and build their own shops within the game world, should help with the feeling of a community.
Now, we've seen that the engine can handle being massively multiplayer.
We've seen that the building blocks of the combat system are there. This was one of the big delays (re-ability), as their first iteration didn't work well enough with massive numbers. This cost them 1 year, but the second iteration works at scale.
We've not yet seen the progression mechanics, that still needs to be done.
We've started to see the objective based pvp. We've seen the CUBE system working. We've seen buildings in game being destroyed. Weve seen siege engines destroying them. We haven't yet seen a larger game world or the floating-island mechanic for territory control.
This was amazingly insightful, and I want to thank you for putting this out, as truth be told this really shows exactly where Mark was coming from, as he had historically done exactly what he said he could do, in the time he gave himself to do it.
Seems like he was being totally honest and legit in his own listed expectations based on what he had done in the past.
I see no problem with that.
So, I guess the question at this point becomes, what went so horribly assbackwards wrong with CU, that we are sitting here 5 years later, with no viable product.
I suppose that is really where things start to fall apart as the delays keep piling up, I mean if he had done, and could do something similar in a roughly 2 year timeframe, even if he doubled that expectation, to say, 4 years overall, that still would have given us a game that should have launched in 2017, yet here we are, in 2021, with no game in sight.
While I am not calling Mark a lair, I do firmly believe that his backers have every right to be justifiably pissed at his presented incompetence on this project... don't you?
From what I recall (+ Google), they did first have issues with the Ability Building System (the technical side of it, not the design) back in 2016 and they took many months to rebuild the system from scratch. Prior to 2016, they were working on their own solutions for in-game chat but then switched to Discord's GameBridge that offered integrated chat plus in-game voice services. But then Discord's GameBridge closed business so I guess CSE had to work on a new in-house solution (or worked on the previous one). The lighting system was insufficient and got reworked in 2016-2017, if I'm correct, and it took many months of engineering. Still in 2016-2017 they've been remaking the Animation System. The VFX system was reworked by George in 2017. The structure stability and destruction was worked on in 2017-2019 and a lot of efforts were put in. I think they're still working on this system. The procedural map generation system took (and still is taking) a lot of engineering time. The environment that changes according to realm ownership is another tech that took some time. Optimizing the engine for rendering 1000+ characters at acceptable performances was a very long process, plus all the networking to simulate those characters. They're also remaking 3D assets, like trees (before with in-house tools, now with Speed Tree) and characters. They also had a lot of issues to recruit new engineers in Fairfax, which slowed down development a lot. They then opened a second studio in Seattle to get more developers. That doesn't explain everything, but those are some of the reasons why they're late.
Maybe not outright lies but deception rides a thin line right beside lies.There is also the possibility that mark has lied but proving it is difficult so we are allowed to just use our own judgement based on the many deceptive tactics used. Let me put it this way,NOTHING he shows us is factual gameplay unless it is actual realistic GAME PLAY,with actual players and actual realistic scenes and not some prefabbed scene with a few repeated/duplicated assets.
I think was the very first video he showed us,was the first i saw anyhow and it was like the biggest lol attempt to prove his game could run MANY players at the same time.I went away laughing thinking,dude do you actually think your video proves anything,well apparently he thought he could fool some people.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I need more fingers and toes to count all the crap that gets marketed to us as "promises"and false hype.Chris Robert's made th same claims,even to mention he only needed 6 million to build his game and he also claimed when the accusations flew that he didn't even need to steal gamer's money because he had his own from previous ventures.
I fully GET IT,yes decisions can change,maybe bigger lofty goals,nothing wrong with wanting to IMPROVE on your original thought. One big problem,DELIVER on your original promise to the backers FIRST before moving on and asking for MORE money. It comes down to very simple economics,simple psychology,if they actually release a product as finished it will be heavilty scrutinized and the backlash may be so severe to sink the game and the crash the money train.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The $2.5M figure was an unsubstantiated figure Mark threw out in an interview here on MMORPG. There is no verifiable citation of the development costs. That figure is also minus any licensing and other development fees according to the wikipedia article. It is suspect at best. That was in 1999.
Additionally, that figure and timeline don't include building an engine from the ground up from scratch.
Mythic was not a small independent studio, but a subsidiary of EA with all the financial and infrastructure support of a major publisher. The studio had an undisclosed, but not insubstantial number of employees working on the title.
Their later game Warhammer Online took 3 years, still working under EA, using an existing engine (thus no development time for the engine), and was shut down when the company lost over $1 BILLION dollars. "[Warhammer Online was shutdown]....shortly after the company reported a loss of $1.08 billion in the financial year for 2009" [1].
These developers know very well the sort of timeline it takes to build this sort of engine and project and intentionally portrayed an unrealistic timeline to secure more support.
Why people would apologize and virtue signal these sorts of practices is beyond me. I'm all for second chances and "benefits of the doubt" but nearly a decade later it shouldn't be surprising these projects are subject to severe criticism in light of the obvious bad faith they were launched under. And yet here we are with people arguing unbelievable apologies on their behalf throwing themselves in the line of fire like a religious martyr. Again, it is beyond me as to why.
The head of the studio, in an interview, says they have spent $2,5M on DAoC development (excluding equipment leases). Nobody seems to deny this number.
As far as I know, Mythic was an independent studio back in 1999-2001 (during the development and launch of DAoC). They've been acquired later by EA, in 2006. The number of employees working on DAoC in 1999-2001 was about 25.
Can you give us examples of lies you accuse the studio of?
Pulling up a chair and grabbing some popcorn.
Puts out a couple of Cokes on the table to share and takes a bowl of that fine looking popcorn.
Waits for some good arguments why manually processing anything of this magnitude in a professional business project isn't worthy of scathing criticism and rebuke. Taking notes!
Manual processing *AND* a single person working that problem. Isn't there someone to delegate that menial task to?
Excellent question. I emailed Bezos this morning and asked, but apparently he's handling Amazon refunds for the entire world and is backlogged by about 12 years and 153 million people and couldn't answer.
Fun fact- If you email [email protected] you get his professional apology team.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
[...] Let me put it this way,NOTHING he shows us is factual gameplay unless it is actual realistic GAME PLAY,with actual players and actual realistic scenes and not some prefabbed scene with a few repeated/duplicated assets.
I agree with you that they aren't showing enough gameplay to non-backers (in the forums we're seeing 1000+ ARCs videos, Cherry Keep sieges, backers' published in-game videos, etc.). The last gameplay video they've posted publicly was this one, which is 2 years old (starts at 19:00) :
[...] Let me put it this way,NOTHING he shows us is factual gameplay unless it is actual realistic GAME PLAY,with actual players and actual realistic scenes and not some prefabbed scene with a few repeated/duplicated assets.
I agree with you that they aren't showing enough gameplay to non-backers (in the forums we're seeing 1000+ ARCs videos, Cherry Keep sieges, backers' published in-game videos, etc.). The last gameplay video they've posted publicly was this one, which is 2 years old (starts at 19:00) :
Two years old?! This is why that huge question mark is there, players do not expect huge leaps every time they make a video, just a demonstration that work is being done. SC does this, too much in my opinion, but you do need at least couple of videos a year.
[...] Let me put it this way,NOTHING he shows us is factual gameplay unless it is actual realistic GAME PLAY,with actual players and actual realistic scenes and not some prefabbed scene with a few repeated/duplicated assets.
I agree with you that they aren't showing enough gameplay to non-backers (in the forums we're seeing 1000+ ARCs videos, Cherry Keep sieges, backers' published in-game videos, etc.). The last gameplay video they've posted publicly was this one, which is 2 years old (starts at 19:00) :
Two years old?! This is why that huge question mark is there, players do not expect huge leaps every time they make a video, just a demonstration that work is being done. SC does this, too much in my opinion, but you do need at least couple of videos a year.
I have to point out all backers have access to test the game's progress (or lack thereof) on a regular basis.
Mark has stated he is in no way trying to market CU yet, nor raise anymore money hence the lack of newer public videos and the NDA has been kept solidly in place.
He doesn't blast the media outlets with information, he just publishers a newsletter and a few video streams monthly directed at the backers which sites like this pick up on their own.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Please don't get pulled in by the overly positive spin.
The combat at the moment in Crowfall is nowhere near the same level of polish as GW2 and Wildstar, like seriously sub-par in comparision. And this is one of its many problems: basically every game mechanic is far worse than in any other comparable game and it brings nothing really good or new to the table.
It is actually NOT a good game for people who like RvR. The main gamemode is a guild based full-loot pvp map. The RvR map/mechanic is laughably bad compared to ESO, GW2 or WAR, and the lag/desync is much worse than in those games.
It kind of all over the place in terms of game design, like someone has grabbed cans of their favorite gameplay mechanics and splashed them randomly across the canvas.
Also note that Crowfall has actually received more funding than CU, contrary to what the hype machine posted.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
When they can keep that open all week long, I'll be willing to toss them some backer money and check things out.
MJ is still working through those submitted back in Feb 2019 and clearly is in no hurry to make good on them any time soon.
This game is deserves all of the bashing it gets, been a huge pack of lies since day one, or a one of the worst cases of developer incompetence in software development history.
Seven years in, going on eight, no end in sight.
But feel free to keep bending over and ask for another.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If I'm correct Mark goes to the office to refund backers almost every week-end and he's the only one who can process them (each refund has to be completed manually). It's comprehensible that he's still working on refunds submitted in Feb 2020 since it's at that time that they announced FS:R (very large wave of refunds in early February, certainly more than they could chew). From 2013-2019 the refund policy (90 days max) was honored afaik but now there are just too many of them and it's taking an abnormally long time.
Can you give us examples of lies you accuse the studio of?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
How about this one from the Kickstarter page? Om April 2013 when the KS started, the $25 pledge that got you just the game and Beta 3 access, had Sept 2015 as the Beta delivery date and December 2015 as the game delivery date.
If you get together with a friend and use all your fingers and toes you will see that he was saying that he could develop an MMO from KS to delivery in 20 months.
I'm not talking about delays here, just that initial estimate that a tiny team with little cash could develop an MMO in 20 months.
I could see a young child being so optimistic and full of himself that he could think 20 months for an MMO is doable. But what do you call it when a middle aged developer who had run studios and developed MMOs in the past gives you that estimate as he asks for money? Hint: begins with "L."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Seems like he was being totally honest and legit in his own listed expectations based on what he had done in the past.
I see no problem with that.
So, I guess the question at this point becomes, what went so horribly assbackwards wrong with CU, that we are sitting here 5 years later, with no viable product.
I suppose that is really where things start to fall apart as the delays keep piling up, I mean if he had done, and could do something similar in a roughly 2 year timeframe, even if he doubled that expectation, to say, 4 years overall, that still would have given us a game that should have launched in 2017, yet here we are, in 2021, with no game in sight.
While I am not calling Mark a lair, I do firmly believe that his backers have every right to be justifiably pissed at his presented incompetence on this project... don't you?
Let me put it this way,NOTHING he shows us is factual gameplay unless it is actual realistic GAME PLAY,with actual players and actual realistic scenes and not some prefabbed scene with a few repeated/duplicated assets.
I think was the very first video he showed us,was the first i saw anyhow and it was like the biggest lol attempt to prove his game could run MANY players at the same time.I went away laughing thinking,dude do you actually think your video proves anything,well apparently he thought he could fool some people.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I need more fingers and toes to count all the crap that gets marketed to us as "promises"and false hype.Chris Robert's made th same claims,even to mention he only needed 6 million to build his game and he also claimed when the accusations flew that he didn't even need to steal gamer's money because he had his own from previous ventures.
I fully GET IT,yes decisions can change,maybe bigger lofty goals,nothing wrong with wanting to IMPROVE on your original thought.
One big problem,DELIVER on your original promise to the backers FIRST before moving on and asking for MORE money.
It comes down to very simple economics,simple psychology,if they actually release a product as finished it will be heavilty scrutinized and the backlash may be so severe to sink the game and the crash the money train.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The head of the studio, in an interview, says they have spent $2,5M on DAoC development (excluding equipment leases). Nobody seems to deny this number.
As far as I know, Mythic was an independent studio back in 1999-2001 (during the development and launch of DAoC). They've been acquired later by EA, in 2006. The number of employees working on DAoC in 1999-2001 was about 25.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Mark has stated he is in no way trying to market CU yet, nor raise anymore money hence the lack of newer public videos and the NDA has been kept solidly in place.
He doesn't blast the media outlets with information, he just publishers a newsletter and a few video streams monthly directed at the backers which sites like this pick up on their own.
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