Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Pantheon Devs ask: Community Debate - Would you rather a game...

NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,771
"Community Debate - Would you rather a game you are following pushes an early release with many bugs and issues with the promise of regular fixes and updates or would you rather patiently wait for the game to be released in it's intended state? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters "

Link to discussion HERE if you want to read the replies. Is VR looking to launch a scaled down version of Pantheon? What are your thoughts?
MendelGdemami[Deleted User]YashaX

Comments

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,509
    Nanfoodle said:
    "Community Debate - Would you rather a game you are following pushes an early release with many bugs and issues with the promise of regular fixes and updates or would you rather patiently wait for the game to be released in it's intended state? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters "

    Link to discussion HERE if you want to read the replies. Is VR looking to launch a scaled down version of Pantheon? What are your thoughts?

    To me, this seems like an attempt to 'take the temperature of the room'.  Just like floating the idea of a cash shop some time ago, they seem to be attempting to gauge how people who've waited for this and believed in this project to react to possible actions by VR.

    Then again, it could just be attempting to soften the blow of actions VR has already decided are in their best (financial) interests.  Time will tell.



    NanfoodleGdemamibcbully

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    Here is how I see it.

    You will never find all the bugs on the first day anyway.

    There will always be someone complaining no matter what

    So you might as well launch that buggy ass boat, with the promise of "We are working on it"

    Because real faith in the company does not come from day, it comes from if they kept their word and... Kept Working On It.
    GdemamiYashaXRemalistrawhat0981
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • LackingMMOLackingMMO Member RarePosts: 662
    This one is tough, one part of me says sure because every game is doing that anyways. Cyberpunk anyone? Then the other part feels like id rather it be done but lets be honest, an mmo is always in development and always evolving so it is never truly done.
    Gdemami
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,010
    10 more years from now... " would you like half done game ".
    xpsyncTheocritus
  • XatshXatsh Member RarePosts: 451
    Depends on the bugs and how game breaking they are.

    If it is minor bugs then it is not a big deal. Who cares if a few npcs clip through doors or chairs or a text window has <insert text>.

    If it is hey in this dungeon do not go to that rock or you fall through the world and get warped out of the zone and have to wait for a gm. Or hey you can buy an apple from that npc for 10 silver and sell it for 1 gold. Then you have big issues.

    Basically if the bugs and issues are not game breaking it gets some points off but can still be a really great game. If they are game breaking well they can kill it.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    I will add too, it depends on where you are at.

    if you are at, say Beta, just slapping "Open Beta, play at own risk" on the door.. rock on.

    If it's like Alpha Build 1.07a, and you're still trying to figure out how to make the fighter swing their sword in a way that does not make them look like they are castrating themselves.. you might want to wait till you have at least a Beta in the works.
    Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 17,916
    LMAO. As if the "intended state" of every MMORPG released ever didn't have "many bugs and issues."
    NanfoodleRemalixpsync
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • rounnerrounner Member UncommonPosts: 723
    Didn't they list a bunch of requirements before alpha like all classes developed and certain amount of content? Are they just gauging reaction to lowering this standard before alpha?

    I say alpha now is fine if they're ready but that's not the same as release early. 
    Gdemami
  • AngryElfAngryElf Member UncommonPosts: 194
    Project Gorgon did the early early early release open alpha thing and I personally felt more invested in the game that I could help tune (in some small way).  Problem is if you allow the public to play it in a buggy state, you're going to get a public opinion (usually unhelpful and very emotional).  Not sure how you balance allowing an eager community to help support improvements vs. risking all hell breaking loose when bugs and exploits are broadcast all over forums and YouTube with out-of-context commentary and incendiary statements.
    I would love to play even in a buggy state if it meant I could help move things along a positive path, but I would understand if there is some reservation from the dev team on showing their unfinished product.  The mmo community is brutal and unforgiving. 
    Nanfoodle
  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member RarePosts: 501
    The real question is if they do not release it EA style, are they going to close shop?

    Or even if they release EA, will they still close shop if they do not hit X amount of revenue?

    That 2nd one is the real problem, what amount of revenue do they even need to have the game running and continue to operate?
    Gdemami
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    I just don't see how this discussion is relevant to a game that is currently in "pre-alpha-5" or whatever ridiculous term they have slapped on it.

    Ask again in another five or six years when you get to "post-beta-7" or something.
    Gdemami
    ....
  • blackthornnblackthornn Member UncommonPosts: 611
    We have all cash accounted for and are funded to launch 

    Err we are promoting the game to shop for a publisher so we can fund finishing the game and launch

    So, we slap a price sticker on it and ship as is?


    Only people surprised are those who glued the rose colored glasses directly to their faces and wore the "fantheon" name without cringing 
    GdemamiYashaX
     Grouping in Old school mmo's: meeting someone at the bar and chatting, getting to know them before jumping into bed.  Current mmo's grouping: tinder.  swipe, hookup, hope you don't get herpes, never see them again.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,818
     Buggy is relative. ESO had bugs but did nothing to ruin the best new game experience I’ve had. The features were there. 

    If the “intended” game is there and it’s w engaging I have no problems with bugs.
    IselinYashaXNanfoodle
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,893
    If it’s a live game and we are paying a sub then I would expect no wipes.  If the bugs are along the lines of a spell acting wonky or mobs disappearing then sure.  But if it’s along the lines of having to recreate the inventory system and wipe the database then no freaking way.

    Gdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • RemaliRemali Member RarePosts: 845
    You will always encounter bugs so you better not wait endlessly for a game
    Im not saying release in alpha state but there is a time where the client is stable no wipes are to be expected and most of the major bugs are squashed
    This is a good time to launch the game is in acceptable condition and you can still ride the hype
  • TokkenTokken Member EpicPosts: 3,388
    I would rather have the game in early access than wait ten years to play it.  I can't live forever!
    YashaX

    Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004!  Make PvE GREAT Again!

  • Morgenes83Morgenes83 Member UncommonPosts: 277
    You will never get Software 100% bug free.
    Be it a 1 in a thousand cases bug, a bug which breaks other things when fixing it, or a bug which cannot be resolved because of technical/engine/language reasons.

    You can however lower the amount of bugs. But my experience is that this is best done by letting as many people as possible play (test) the game.

    The issue is that this also needs a lot of server resources and costs a lot of money.
    That's where early access came in place.

    Sadly people see early access as release and if a game is buggy at this point in time it mostly cannot recover until release.

    I also believe that for the management early access counts as release. That's why so many games stay there forever or even close before release

    1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO 

    Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited January 2021
    Kilsin better be trolling, because we've already been there done that with Vanguard and we all know how well that turned out!

    Brad McQuaid has said on multiple occasions that a rushed release was their biggest mistake with Vanguard, and how they learned from it with Pantheon. To now do otherwise would be a rebellious slap in the face to their founder's wisdom.
    Slapshot1188GdemamiNanfoodle[Deleted User]
    --------------------------------------------
  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,854
    I dunno would we rather what? WHAT? Have the game released since you've only been "working" on it for 8 freaking years.

    Yes please, we're all mmorpg veterans here, we can handle buggy releases cause they all are, wouldn't be our first rodeo, i mean if you have anything to release that is after 8 YEARS!!!
    GdemamiYashaX
    My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022

    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Currently Playing; Dragonflight and SWG:L
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,457
    It depends.....If they are going to charge for it, then I want it as bug free as possible...if it is free to play with a cash shop, then I can deal with bugs and give them more time.
    strawhat0981Gdemami
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,771
    AngryElf said:
    Project Gorgon did the early early early release open alpha thing and I personally felt more invested in the game that I could help tune (in some small way).  Problem is if you allow the public to play it in a buggy state, you're going to get a public opinion (usually unhelpful and very emotional).  Not sure how you balance allowing an eager community to help support improvements vs. risking all hell breaking loose when bugs and exploits are broadcast all over forums and YouTube with out-of-context commentary and incendiary statements.
    I would love to play even in a buggy state if it meant I could help move things along a positive path, but I would understand if there is some reservation from the dev team on showing their unfinished product.  The mmo community is brutal and unforgiving. 
    I had not thought of this. Thats a good point. Having allot of active testers did help shape that game. I would pay $5 a month to be an Alpha tester if I kept my progress and the servers were up 99% of the time. 
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,287
    Gonna be honest, when people talk about should they do X, Y, Or Z.

    I backed Crowfall when they said they had a playable game. They said "The game is in a playable state" and true to their word, I could log in a play the game at any time, with no connection issues, no being shut off regularly like other test servers and games, it was about as stable as any other MMO I could play at the time.

    Ok, so I log in, and.. Ok.. the game is raw and rough. The first thing I notice is that some classes and races are not complete, so I can't access them, but, It's Alpha, I'm cool with this. I make what I can, and move onward with that.

    Moving on, I get through the starter area, where the tool tips are non existent, there is no in game guides, advice, or anything that can tell me what it going on, and there are no 3rd party guides, Wiki's, or things I can look up to get an easy walkthrough or hold my hand.. I am loving this! This feels like some old school shit, where I was flying blind my first few hours.

    Here is a half baked world.. go screw around!

    Ok.. so I blunder my way out of the Tutorial area to the real game, this Main Hall, that of course was missing their graphics, with a ton of placeholders, and a bunch of newbs like myself mulling about trying to figure out how things worked.

    On top of this, as I look over my character, there was a slew of features that were just placeholders, I find the crafting area and a bunch of stuff that has no info on them, no tool tips, a bunch of placebo's in place to show how the system might work, but again no info to tell me what I should be doing here.

    So here I am, playing this Throne War World vs World game, where Massive Graphics are missing, Animations are Missing, it's crude to say the least, but I could feel that the game was there, and what was going down, and on top of all this, I knew a wipe was coming.

    But.. I could Play it, not only could I play it, I was playing it.

    That was the ultimate faith maker for me, because legit, even with all that was left to do, they could have said "yah, we're not gonna wipe, game is going live now" and it would be playable.

    Still needing work, but playable none the less, and it was Amazing to watch the progress, see graphics get put in, see features get filled out, watch placeholders and placebo's get swapped over to full working systems, and seeing, witnessing, watching that world unfold around me.. well that was 100% faith maker, this game was on the track and going to rock, and everyone crying about how Crowfall was going to fail, or never launch, or turn to vaporware, can wipe their tears in a extra thick hanky, wad that sucker in a ball and shove it up their ass.

    Sadly however, it was not my vibe of a game. As amazing as the journey was, and I have Zero regrets backing them, knowing what I know today about how I feel about the game, I still would have given them, that same $200 to be a backer, and I have nothing but made respect for all their work and effort.

    It reminds me of a line from Iron Chef America where one judge said "This may very well be the best the example of this dish that was ever made, but it does not agree with my palate"

    Now, If Panthon took the same path, and even if it was in Alpha, and they make it known that it is in Alpha, but, put the game out as in a playable state, perhaps without the Sub active, because the game is still in Alpha/Beta, but if they did that, I would be glad to back them too.
    Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

Sign In or Register to comment.