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Wherefore Art Thou Renfail?

Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
edited December 2020 in Saga of Lucimia
After seeing a comment in a thread about another game I decided to peek in on SoL and it looks like @Renfail has not posted on the forums or Discord since July other than a small blurb in early Sept.


Everything OK?

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited December 2020
    I am about to say something that really proves what i have been saying all along,business first and the game a VERY distant second.This is for ALL games in all markets.

    Why am i saying this,well you see the Stromhaven team CLAIMED they were building a game from passion first and business second.However they have completely turned full circle going from PVE to a full loot pvp cash shop game.

    So it is now 100% about business and gaming passion second.So i assume he feels there is nothing to market or sell here because most SERIOUS gamers on this site want a TRUE passionate game and not something made to support a cash shop and to fill the corporate pockets.
    This is the same reason i never bought into Cyberpunk,ask yoruself WHAT does the game offer ....flashy lights,billboards and very ho hum gameplay,is that a passionate game design?
    I keep saying it now,gaming has fell into a sinkhole,not one studio left on this planet is in it for passionate gaming,to hem it is just a MARKETPLACE ,a chance to fill their pockets with money.
    IselinSlapshot1188

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member RarePosts: 527
    Wizardry said:
    I am about to say something that really proves what i have been saying all along,business first and the game a VERY distant second.This is for ALL games in all markets.

    Why am i saying this,well you see the Stromhaven team CLAIMED they were building a game from passion first and business second.However they have completely turned full circle going from PVE to a full loot pvp cash shop game.

    So it is now 100% about business and gaming passion second.So i assume he feels there is nothing to market or sell here because most SERIOUS gamers on this site want a TRUE passionate game and not something made to support a cash shop and to fill the corporate pockets.
    This is the same reason i never bought into Cyberpunk,ask yoruself WHAT does the game offer ....flashy lights,billboards and very ho hum gameplay,is that a passionate game design?
    I keep saying it now,gaming has fell into a sinkhole,not one studio left on this planet is in it for passionate gaming,to hem it is just a MARKETPLACE ,a chance to fill their pockets with money.
    Makes no sense...how could a full loot cash shop pvp game be better than a pve game?

    Been tried many a time and i do not remember it ever working as well as many of the pve games do. So how is that in any way a business choice/decision ?


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    I think Wizardry sits on the toilet and comes up with ideas and then picks random threads to post them in, sequitur be damned!
    Slapshot1188SovrathSandmanjwKyleranmklinic[Deleted User]Asheramthelawoflogic
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Just fyi, wherefore art thou does not mean where are you. 

    wherefore
    ” means “why”, not “where” – she doesn't want to know where he is; she wants to know why he has to be a Montague, and the sworn enemy of her family.

    I believe he said they were taking a two year media pause.
    SovrathUngoodMendelcheyane[Deleted User]

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    Wizardry said:
    I am about to say something that really proves what i have been saying all along,business first and the game a VERY distant second.This is for ALL games in all markets.

    Why am i saying this,well you see the Stromhaven team CLAIMED they were building a game from passion first and business second.However they have completely turned full circle going from PVE to a full loot pvp cash shop game.

    So it is now 100% about business and gaming passion second.So i assume he feels there is nothing to market or sell here because most SERIOUS gamers on this site want a TRUE passionate game and not something made to support a cash shop and to fill the corporate pockets.
    This is the same reason i never bought into Cyberpunk,ask yoruself WHAT does the game offer ....flashy lights,billboards and very ho hum gameplay,is that a passionate game design?
    I keep saying it now,gaming has fell into a sinkhole,not one studio left on this planet is in it for passionate gaming,to hem it is just a MARKETPLACE ,a chance to fill their pockets with money.
    I normally ignore your post but just had to respond.  This game did not go “full loot pvp”. It is a pure PvE game.  Please just stop posting random shit all over the place.
    SovrathKyleranthelawoflogic

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    edited December 2020

    Amathe said:
    Just fyi, wherefore art thou does not mean where are you. 

    wherefore
    ” means “why”, not “where” – she doesn't want to know where he is; she wants to know why he has to be a Montague, and the sworn enemy of her family.

    I believe he said they were taking a two year media pause.
    Once upon a time I knew that. It sucks to get old.
    MendelAmathe[Deleted User]

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 493
    This game will never launch, anyone putting faith in this studio is going to be sorely disappointed. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,677
    At this point the less said the better for most of these indie MMORPG efforts.

    MendelUngood[Deleted User]YashaXAsheramGdemami

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    remsleep said:
    It seems that Renfail has turned into a LOTR streamer - posted a video today on his channel

    he does plug SoL book at the beginning of the video

    Can't stream what does not exist, also, if you are legit, you don't sell what you don't have.
    YashaXGdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,531
    Another dead indie MMO.  Is anyone still surprised this is happening?
    Gdemamiborghive49YashaX
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,813
    edited January 2021
    So was Renfail paid by someone to come post on forums like this one to try and drum up interest in the game?
    Gdemamiborghive49
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    So was Renfail paid by someone to come post on forums like this one to try and drum up interest in the game?
    Given he Writes the Blog and is listed as the Creative Director of Saga of Lucinia, I don't think he was some random Streamer paid to drum up business. 
    KyleranYashaX[Deleted User]
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,677
    Ungood said:hrs
    So was Renfail paid by someone to come post on forums like this one to try and drum up interest in the game?
    Given he Writes the Blog and is listed as the Creative Director of Saga of Lucinia, I don't think he was some random Streamer paid to drum up business. 
    He's a principal who main job over the years was to drum up support for the game.

    Apparently spent much of his time in 2020 live streaming LotRO seeing there's been nothing to promote since they hunkered down last Spring.


    GdemamiUngood

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Morgenes83Morgenes83 Member UncommonPosts: 286
    edited January 2021

    Amathe said:
    Just fyi, wherefore art thou does not mean where are you. 

    wherefore
    ” means “why”, not “where” – she doesn't want to know where he is; she wants to know why he has to be a Montague, and the sworn enemy of her family.

    I believe he said they were taking a two year media pause.
    Once upon a time I knew that. It sucks to get old.
    This is most probably coming from the German word "wofür" which means "why for" but "wo" is directly translated into english as "where" while "why" is "warum". Just that you do not die stupid (also a German saying)

    @topic ;
    Common business. Everything is fine until the ship has sunken completely.
    When people like Renfail become silent it's mostly already to late and they prepare the letter to the community stating that Corona killed the game.

    I don't hope this is the case as this game is definitely something I would like to play, but that's my experience.

    Edit: totally missed the "2 year media break" statement.
    If this is the case this is probably them realizing that they are further from release and that it only hurts the game like you can see with MJ and Camelot. 
    GdemamiMendel

    1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO 

    Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:hrs
    So was Renfail paid by someone to come post on forums like this one to try and drum up interest in the game?
    Given he Writes the Blog and is listed as the Creative Director of Saga of Lucinia, I don't think he was some random Streamer paid to drum up business. 
    He's a principal who main job over the years was to drum up support for the game.

    Apparently spent much of his time in 2020 live streaming LotRO seeing there's been nothing to promote since they hunkered down last Spring.


    Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

    The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.
    KyleranGdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 23,359
    edited January 2021
    If I remember correctly they decided to have very little presence on social media including the likes of here very early on. Its a very small team so they have very slow progress and all they would get it calls of why hasn't it launched yet, the same we do on all the other CF MMOs, they had a heads down and get on with it approach. But they reversed that decision for a while I assume to drum up some more money and then went back to a quiet news state. I think he also said that for nearly all (or all of) the team this was a second job so you can multiply time to launch by two or three times right there.
    KyleranGdemami
  • moshramoshra Member RarePosts: 400
    Wizardry said:
    I am about to say something that really proves what i have been saying all along,business first and the game a VERY distant second.This is for ALL games in all markets.

    Why am i saying this,well you see the Stromhaven team CLAIMED they were building a game from passion first and business second.However they have completely turned full circle going from PVE to a full loot pvp cash shop game.

    So it is now 100% about business and gaming passion second.So i assume he feels there is nothing to market or sell here because most SERIOUS gamers on this site want a TRUE passionate game and not something made to support a cash shop and to fill the corporate pockets.
    This is the same reason i never bought into Cyberpunk,ask yoruself WHAT does the game offer ....flashy lights,billboards and very ho hum gameplay,is that a passionate game design?
    I keep saying it now,gaming has fell into a sinkhole,not one studio left on this planet is in it for passionate gaming,to hem it is just a MARKETPLACE ,a chance to fill their pockets with money.
    I normally ignore your post but just had to respond.  This game did not go “full loot pvp”. It is a pure PvE game.  Please just stop posting random shit all over the place.

    Clearly you're not a SERIOUS GAMER, otherwise you would not be arguing with Wizardry.  He speaks for all of us SERIOUS gamers that want a TRUE passionate game.  Out with the FLashy LIGhts and BILLBOARDS AND IN WITH THE PASSSIONATE GAME DESIGN!!!!! 
    [Deleted User]KyleranAsheram
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

    The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.
    Streaming and any other hobbyist public activity does not necessarily have to do with his game, especially since iirc he mentioned at some point they are gonna go quiet and focus on development for the upcoming months. As long as he is keeping his backers (who are essentially the closest thing to his "stakeholders") up to date in official game channels, he should be given a break.

    On the other hand, I am not sure how wise in terms of PR it is to post non-SOL related content when he is in the mind of the public primarily the SoL lead and hasn't given SoL news in the past months.

    The 'we go silent' and the 'I stream' make me wonder exactly how involved with the day-to-day operations Tim is.  He's got a marketing and travel agent background, so maybe he's just gathered some talent to do the work, and he's just overseeing.  I don't know.



    Gdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • moshramoshra Member RarePosts: 400
    edited January 2021
    Torval said:
    Mendel said:
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

    The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.
    Streaming and any other hobbyist public activity does not necessarily have to do with his game, especially since iirc he mentioned at some point they are gonna go quiet and focus on development for the upcoming months. As long as he is keeping his backers (who are essentially the closest thing to his "stakeholders") up to date in official game channels, he should be given a break.

    On the other hand, I am not sure how wise in terms of PR it is to post non-SOL related content when he is in the mind of the public primarily the SoL lead and hasn't given SoL news in the past months.

    The 'we go silent' and the 'I stream' make me wonder exactly how involved with the day-to-day operations Tim is.  He's got a marketing and travel agent background, so maybe he's just gathered some talent to do the work, and he's just overseeing.  I don't know.




    I work more than 40 hours a week at a salaried job. I still have plenty of time to game (or stream if I wanted to) in my off time. I venture to guess that none of us here, still working, only work and have no time to game.
    Nope, game developers should only play/stream games they are currently working on.  Should be law.
    [Deleted User]GdemamiKyleran
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 2,209
    Alpha still ongoing. Tim tends to show up when there is something to talk about. No reason to respond to a post saying his game is full loot pvp.
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Torval said:
    Mendel said:
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

    The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.
    Streaming and any other hobbyist public activity does not necessarily have to do with his game, especially since iirc he mentioned at some point they are gonna go quiet and focus on development for the upcoming months. As long as he is keeping his backers (who are essentially the closest thing to his "stakeholders") up to date in official game channels, he should be given a break.

    On the other hand, I am not sure how wise in terms of PR it is to post non-SOL related content when he is in the mind of the public primarily the SoL lead and hasn't given SoL news in the past months.

    The 'we go silent' and the 'I stream' make me wonder exactly how involved with the day-to-day operations Tim is.  He's got a marketing and travel agent background, so maybe he's just gathered some talent to do the work, and he's just overseeing.  I don't know.




    I work more than 40 hours a week at a salaried job. I still have plenty of time to game (or stream if I wanted to) in my off time. I venture to guess that none of us here, still working, only work and have no time to game.

    I was just suggesting that he might have more time than we know to pursue these other things.  How much free time does his full-time participation leave him.  That probably depends on how much he is contributing.  In an idea/vision/envision mode, he's probably in all that.  Debugging network code or creating art assets, he's probably got more time.

    So, yes, I sorta agree. 



    [Deleted User][Deleted User]Gdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 23,359
    Torval said:
    Mendel said:
    tzervo said:
    Ungood said:
    Ya know.. Social Media is a huge time sink.. so.. going lights out on Social Media, might have been his best plan, and just focus on more doing and less talking.

    The streaming kinda shoots that theory down.. but.. meh.
    Streaming and any other hobbyist public activity does not necessarily have to do with his game, especially since iirc he mentioned at some point they are gonna go quiet and focus on development for the upcoming months. As long as he is keeping his backers (who are essentially the closest thing to his "stakeholders") up to date in official game channels, he should be given a break.

    On the other hand, I am not sure how wise in terms of PR it is to post non-SOL related content when he is in the mind of the public primarily the SoL lead and hasn't given SoL news in the past months.

    The 'we go silent' and the 'I stream' make me wonder exactly how involved with the day-to-day operations Tim is.  He's got a marketing and travel agent background, so maybe he's just gathered some talent to do the work, and he's just overseeing.  I don't know.




    I work more than 40 hours a week at a salaried job. I still have plenty of time to game (or stream if I wanted to) in my off time. I venture to guess that none of us here, still working, only work and have no time to game.
    What a nightmare scenario that would be. No. Time. To. Game: Scot runs off and falls into a Pit of Doom!  :#
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]KyleranYashaX
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    I have had direct contact with Tim (Renfail).  He has advised that he and his brother ceased involvement with the project as of September 2020.   The group retains all rights to the world and backstories he created and he assumes is still working to completion.


    KyleranBruceYeeTheocritusYashaXPanther2103

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    edited March 2021
    Update-  He has announced that he is working on Project Dramond which seems to be a new fantasy setting/table top RPG campaign, novels, "point and click adventure game" like Kings Quest.

    Kind of like Saga of Lucimia was I guess, but the game is like KingsQuest instead of Everquest.

    Concept art below.









    So it would appear that this is a hard split from SoL.





    YashaX[Deleted User]Renfail

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,677
    Whoa, now this really is big news. Tim put a good six or more years into this game, something really must have gone wrong for him to sever all ties.


    BruceYeeRenfailGdemami

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






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