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Fantasy,D&D,pen and paper,the modern approach,then taken away.

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
edited October 2020 in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
I'm a late bloomer to this mind set of people. I actually feel I have an edge on trying to understand peoples goals in leaving this world to seek fantasy.

Fast history,
Back in the early 80's I found my self in a military barracks when I was 18.  We had groups of people from all walks of life gathering in dorm rooms.  I belonged to the party animal alcoholic group, but we had the Christian bible groups, pot smokers group, ethics groups, and last we had the D&D pen and paper groups.

When ever I was sober, I found myself visiting their rooms, I found each group intriguing, and wanting to be a social member of all but maintaining distance because my true calling was being a party animal.

The D&D group, I found very interesting.  When I entered I would find them bug eyed from lack of sleep, talking a fantasy language and totally disengaged from normal social society....It was so strange that my first encounter was "someone explain whats going on or were all gonna be fighting". Only kidding but not really, it was strange. 



Later in life around the year 2004, I found myself playing World of Warcraft. The first few days I kept to myself but seeing people around me.  Several days later someone asked me for help in the spider cave.  I'm like what?... but ok. HE WAS TALKING THAT STRANGE LANGUAGE I haven't encountered since the 80's !!

I was hooked into Fantasy at that moment forward !!!



People working together,
They had skills that were needed that "I didn't' have"..... Being selfish at first, I needed these strange talking people because life was impossible without them.  Later I found myself saying, It's much better to become friends and drop the selfishness. 

This is mmorpg !




This great feeling lasted several years and and several mmoprg's later.

But one day it stopped !!!!..... You no longer made your own fantasy.  Someone made it for you. No more D&D like the military barracks when I was 18 years old.  They turned into "standard video games" played on line with others on your screen " for no real purpose". 

Come-on-admit-it.... were all in a holding pattern

DibdabsbcbullyHawkaya399

Comments

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    remsleep said:

    Later in life around the year 2000, I found myself playing World of Warcraft.


    Parallel dimensions and time travel are real
    You again, are you following me ?
    I fixed that within 2 minuets, yet you were fast in pointing out a mistake.

    That's ok, keep stalking me, I love the attention :)
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    edited October 2020
    remsleep said:

    That's ok, keep stalking me, I love the attention :)

    Please don't flatter yourself dude - I am up and responding to recent posts on the main page, like I always do. 

    You just happen to have most recent post - that's all. 
    No, it's OK, I don't mind.... But I wish you were a hot looking girl. I don't mind being stalked by them, it's another fantasy for me.  

    If people are afraid,
    I always tell them don't be afraid of the boggy-man, be the boggy-man... this helps :)
    Scot[Deleted User]MMOExposed
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    I've definitely been in a holding pattern for the past 13+ years in all video gaming genres. Flashy adrenaline action is the name of the games now. I swear I hear far too many reviewers utter the phrase, "This game is GOR-GE-OUS!"

    Ask almost any D&D what they like best about the game and most will say something akin to "player interaction." Combat is farther down the list for most.

    What do video games offer today? Combat, combat and ever more combat. 75 to 90% of video games are some form of combat activity.

    Where did the "player interaction" go? Not as profitable anymore :(
    delete5230NeanderthalPo_gg

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    remsleep said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    I've definitely been in a holding pattern for the past 13+ years in all video gaming genres. Flashy adrenaline action is the name of the games now. I swear I hear far too many reviewers utter the phrase, "This game is GOR-GE-OUS!"

    Ask almost any D&D what they like best about the game and most will say something akin to "player interaction." Combat is farther down the list for most.

    What do video games offer today? Combat, combat and ever more combat. 75 to 90% of video games are some form of combat activity.

    Where did the "player interaction" go? Not as profitable anymore :(

    Early MMORPGs were all heavily combat based as far as activity goes too - the difference was that due to super shitty internet infrastructure back in late 1990s' early 2000s - the combat was made to be way slower than it is today.

     dialup internet was very much a thing for most early mmorpg players

    So the social interaction that happened in games like EQ1 - was a byproduct due to slow combat that allowed people to chat while fighting - not due to some genius game-dev design.

    As more tech got better and real time action combat became easier to pull off in MMOs - social interaction moved to voice-chat mostly as there was no time to type and fight anymore.

    But all early mmo games were very much combat combat combat based - it was just slower paced
    I really don't agree, sure combat was slower, but players just got on and did it. In the area you are talking about, where social interaction increased relative to today was finding a group for PvP or finding out that PvP was happening and how to get there. 
    GdemamiAlBQuirky
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    remsleep said:
    Scot said:
    remsleep said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    I've definitely been in a holding pattern for the past 13+ years in all video gaming genres. Flashy adrenaline action is the name of the games now. I swear I hear far too many reviewers utter the phrase, "This game is GOR-GE-OUS!"

    Ask almost any D&D what they like best about the game and most will say something akin to "player interaction." Combat is farther down the list for most.

    What do video games offer today? Combat, combat and ever more combat. 75 to 90% of video games are some form of combat activity.

    Where did the "player interaction" go? Not as profitable anymore :(

    Early MMORPGs were all heavily combat based as far as activity goes too - the difference was that due to super shitty internet infrastructure back in late 1990s' early 2000s - the combat was made to be way slower than it is today.

     dialup internet was very much a thing for most early mmorpg players

    So the social interaction that happened in games like EQ1 - was a byproduct due to slow combat that allowed people to chat while fighting - not due to some genius game-dev design.

    As more tech got better and real time action combat became easier to pull off in MMOs - social interaction moved to voice-chat mostly as there was no time to type and fight anymore.

    But all early mmo games were very much combat combat combat based - it was just slower paced
    I really don't agree, sure combat was slower, but players just got on and did it. In the area you are talking about, where social interaction increased relative to today was finding a group for PvP or finding out that PvP was happening and how to get there. 


    You don't agree that early mmorpgs were combat based?

    People flocked to UO, EQ1, AC and DAoC because of combat gameplay, not because of social interaction - social interaction was secondary.

    My feeling on this subject,
    Combat was a by-product of prep work, and communication. 

    Fighting how ever fun.... was a feeling of a job well done from the two above.
    GdemamiScot
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    remsleep said:
    Scot said:
    remsleep said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    I've definitely been in a holding pattern for the past 13+ years in all video gaming genres. Flashy adrenaline action is the name of the games now. I swear I hear far too many reviewers utter the phrase, "This game is GOR-GE-OUS!"

    Ask almost any D&D what they like best about the game and most will say something akin to "player interaction." Combat is farther down the list for most.

    What do video games offer today? Combat, combat and ever more combat. 75 to 90% of video games are some form of combat activity.

    Where did the "player interaction" go? Not as profitable anymore :(

    Early MMORPGs were all heavily combat based as far as activity goes too - the difference was that due to super shitty internet infrastructure back in late 1990s' early 2000s - the combat was made to be way slower than it is today.

     dialup internet was very much a thing for most early mmorpg players

    So the social interaction that happened in games like EQ1 - was a byproduct due to slow combat that allowed people to chat while fighting - not due to some genius game-dev design.

    As more tech got better and real time action combat became easier to pull off in MMOs - social interaction moved to voice-chat mostly as there was no time to type and fight anymore.

    But all early mmo games were very much combat combat combat based - it was just slower paced
    I really don't agree, sure combat was slower, but players just got on and did it. In the area you are talking about, where social interaction increased relative to today was finding a group for PvP or finding out that PvP was happening and how to get there. 


    You don't agree that early mmorpgs were combat based?

    People flocked to UO, EQ1, AC and DAoC because of combat gameplay, not because of social interaction - social interaction was secondary.

    I think we have crossed wires here, yes they were combat based but the slower combat did not create more social interaction. It was the increased waiting times and the fact PvP was not so well flagged and you had to find it that made for more interaction. The effect was similar to "group finder" on PvE.

    Social interaction has always been well down the line, that has not changed sadly, though the "game" must come before interaction of course. I just wish it had a higher priority. It is odd in this era of social media that games askew more interaction.
    AlBQuirky
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    remsleep said:

    Later in life around the year 2000, I found myself playing World of Warcraft.


    Parallel dimensions and time travel are real



    I noticed that too. I am starting to think the OP never played WoW. Maybe any mmorpg.
    AlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    edited October 2020
    remsleep said:
    Scot said:
    I think we have crossed wires here, yes they were combat based but the slower combat did not create more social interaction. It was the increased waiting times and the fact PvP was not so well flagged and you had to find it that made for more interaction. The effect was similar to "group finder" on PvE.

    Social interaction has always been well down the line, that has not changed sadly, though the "game" must come before interaction of course. I just wish it had a higher priority. It is odd in this era of social media that games askew more interaction.


    Not sure if you played EQ1 - but slow combat and slow recovery after combat created a lot of space for social interaction.

    Auto-attack and long cooldown on skills made it easy to be actively fighting and still being able to type in chat without much problem. 
    Fair enough, combat recovery was a social interaction bonus, particularly if like in SWG you could speed up combat fatigue by going to a bar and hearing a "minstrel" play. But that was not found in most old MMOs, now in hardly any at all.
    AlBQuirky
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    Amathe said:
    remsleep said:

    Later in life around the year 2000, I found myself playing World of Warcraft.


    Parallel dimensions and time travel are real



    I noticed that too. I am starting to think the OP never played WoW. Maybe any mmorpg.
    No you didn't,
    It was fixed 2 minutes after I first posted.... Your just responding now?  If you read the follow up (and I'm sure you did), you already knowned that.

    Such a bull shitter. Your like CNN News... fake.
    SensaiAlBQuirkymmolou
  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 3,203
    I played online mmorpgs when I joined some friends on EQ1, around the time Kunark came out (I think) and it almost inspired the same feelings I got when playing the White Box set of D&D. and, later on, AD&D.  EQ was a rather niche interest and pretty much every player I encountered in the game had cut their teeth on pen and paper games, so the sense of a hobby community was still in evidence. 

    No computer game since then has ever - or will ever - come close to actual pen and paper play, not for me at any rate.  
    Po_ggAmatheAlBQuirky
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    AlBQuirky said:
    Ask almost any D&D what they like best about the game and most will say something akin to "player interaction." Combat is farther down the list for most.
    I've been saying the same since countless years, combat is the least important aspect in roleplaying.
    AlBQuirky said:
    I've definitely been in a holding pattern for the past 13+ years in all video gaming genres.
    Seems like a low number, even TSW's launch was 8 years ago (since then I was only in more overall combat debates, not tied to specific games), and that's just MMORPGs.

    I'd go back to as far as the first Diablo. Combat had a decent weight in the early cRPGs too, as the easiest part of pen'n'paper RPGs to translate into algorithms, but Diablo was the first kinda "open statement" in nothing else is needed just combat and loot. They complain it ain't RPG? Then call it ARPG, problem solved.
    The start of the downfall...
    Dibdabs said:
    No computer game since then has ever - or will ever - come close to actual pen and paper play, not for me at any rate.  
    NWN, with a good GM?
    AlBQuirky
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Amathe said:
    remsleep said:

    Later in life around the year 2000, I found myself playing World of Warcraft.


    Parallel dimensions and time travel are real



    I noticed that too. I am starting to think the OP never played WoW. Maybe any mmorpg.
    No you didn't,
    It was fixed 2 minutes after I first posted.... Your just responding now?  If you read the follow up (and I'm sure you did), you already knowned that.

    Such a bull shitter. Your like CNN News... fake.
    WoW released in 2004. I "knowned" that because I was there. You evidently were not.
    [Deleted User]bcbullyAlBQuirky

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,739
    "As more tech got better and real time action combat became easier to pull off in MMOs - social interaction moved to voice-chat mostly as there was no time to type and fight anymore."

    and that was a death knell for alot of us that played using type chat......ALl of a sudden our worlds were people on voice chat yelling at their wives, their kids, swearing like drunken sailors, and let's hope there wasn't a female player involved because it was all over if there was. That chat was only "come have sex with me" or some other stupid talk. Voice chat was difenitely a downturn for me and I completely lost interest in any of the MMOs that required it.

    [Deleted User]AmatheSovrathAlBQuirky
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Well that return didn't last long.
    Mendelkitaradcameltosischeyane[Deleted User]AlBQuirky
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Iselin said:
    Well that return didn't last long.
    Oh my!
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    remsleep said:
    Scot said:
    remsleep said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    I've definitely been in a holding pattern for the past 13+ years in all video gaming genres. Flashy adrenaline action is the name of the games now. I swear I hear far too many reviewers utter the phrase, "This game is GOR-GE-OUS!"

    Ask almost any D&D what they like best about the game and most will say something akin to "player interaction." Combat is farther down the list for most.

    What do video games offer today? Combat, combat and ever more combat. 75 to 90% of video games are some form of combat activity.

    Where did the "player interaction" go? Not as profitable anymore :(

    Early MMORPGs were all heavily combat based as far as activity goes too - the difference was that due to super shitty internet infrastructure back in late 1990s' early 2000s - the combat was made to be way slower than it is today.

     dialup internet was very much a thing for most early mmorpg players

    So the social interaction that happened in games like EQ1 - was a byproduct due to slow combat that allowed people to chat while fighting - not due to some genius game-dev design.

    As more tech got better and real time action combat became easier to pull off in MMOs - social interaction moved to voice-chat mostly as there was no time to type and fight anymore.

    But all early mmo games were very much combat combat combat based - it was just slower paced
    I really don't agree, sure combat was slower, but players just got on and did it. In the area you are talking about, where social interaction increased relative to today was finding a group for PvP or finding out that PvP was happening and how to get there. 


    You don't agree that early mmorpgs were combat based?

    People flocked to UO, EQ1, AC and DAoC because of combat gameplay, not because of social interaction - social interaction was secondary.


    I'm sure some players did. I happened to spend one of my weekend marathons going from language group to language group. I would like to say I didn't fight once all weekend, but it's EQ so I'm sure some fighting took place while traveling.

    EQ, believe it or not, was deep. For many players, sure their experience was, "I ding'd! Where's the next camp?" For many others, EQ was lore, crafting, languages. Did you know I was mad for the longest time because MMORPGs had emotes and single player RPGs did not? (STILL don't!)

    EQ spent a lot of time and effort on "other than combat" activities, though combat was no doubt top dog. RPG players mostly enjoy interaction over combat (which IS an interaction, too). For me, this is what video games missed out on.
    kitaradlaserit

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    remsleep said:
    Scot said:
    I think we have crossed wires here, yes they were combat based but the slower combat did not create more social interaction. It was the increased waiting times and the fact PvP was not so well flagged and you had to find it that made for more interaction. The effect was similar to "group finder" on PvE.

    Social interaction has always been well down the line, that has not changed sadly, though the "game" must come before interaction of course. I just wish it had a higher priority. It is odd in this era of social media that games askew more interaction.


    Not sure if you played EQ1 - but slow combat and slow recovery after combat created a lot of space for social interaction.

    Auto-attack and long cooldown on skills made it easy to be actively fighting and still being able to type in chat without much problem. 

    Lots of player said nothing, so what? Many got drinks, went to the bathroom, hugged a loved one.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    Dibdabs said:
    I played online mmorpgs when I joined some friends on EQ1, around the time Kunark came out (I think) and it almost inspired the same feelings I got when playing the White Box set of D&D. and, later on, AD&D.  EQ was a rather niche interest and pretty much every player I encountered in the game had cut their teeth on pen and paper games, so the sense of a hobby community was still in evidence. 

    No computer game since then has ever - or will ever - come close to actual pen and paper play, not for me at any rate.  

    Pretty much my story, also. AD&D in high school. Heard some work buddies talking about EQ at work (never heard of "MMORPG" before) and bought in with the Kunark expansion. My D&D buddies were scattered all across America. I was hoping to find a new "online D&D fix." EQ came close, but was not the same, due to lack of my character's ability to meaningfully interact with the world.
    Dibdabs

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 6,959
    remsleep said:


    Early MMORPGs were all heavily combat based as far as activity goes too - the difference was that due to super shitty internet infrastructure back in late 1990s' early 2000s - the combat was made to be way slower than it is today.

     dialup internet was very much a thing for most early mmorpg players

    So the social interaction that happened in games like EQ1 - was a byproduct due to slow combat that allowed people to chat while fighting - not due to some genius game-dev design.

    As more tech got better and real time action combat became easier to pull off in MMOs - social interaction moved to voice-chat mostly as there was no time to type and fight anymore.

    But all early mmo games were very much combat combat combat based - it was just slower paced
    Star Wars Galaxies pre-NGE would want to have a word with you. ;)

    There is a reason why people (me included) have such fond memories of this game.
    AlBQuirkyAmathe
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,517
    remsleep said:


    You don't agree that early mmorpgs were combat based?

    People flocked to UO, EQ1, AC and DAoC because of combat gameplay, not because of social interaction - social interaction was secondary.

    Actually, I would be far more inclined to believe that people flocked to games like EQ1, UO, and DAOC, because their existing gaming social circle suggested it.

    Ergo, people playing magic at the weekly game shop, talking about EQ1, or your D&D group discussing UO, got others into it. 

    So a lot of people got into the game due to social aspects, they joined guilds with their RL friends, and it was that "Hey! We can just play a game together and not bitch about the rules for 3 hours because someone got butthurt they lost"
    AlBQuirkyDibdabskitaradAmathe
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 3,203
    Spot on, Ungood.  Due to us all having jobs and families my gaming friends could hardly ever arrange to get together any more, so we all went to EQ as the next best thing to sitting around a table and gaming together.
    UngoodAmatheAlBQuirky
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,122
    Scot said:

    Social interaction has always been well down the line, that has not changed sadly, though the "game" must come before interaction of course. I just wish it had a higher priority. It is odd in this era of social media that games askew more interaction.

    A lot of textual social media is essentially turn-based. As it happens, by far the most social interaction I've had during play was when I was in a guild while playing Dofus, a turn-based tactical MMO.

    Higher level fights could take a while as each person's turn tended to be longer as some of the battles were quite complex. That gave plenty of time for players to socialize between their turns via text in game.
    AlBQuirky
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member RarePosts: 620
    edited November 2020
    I'm a late bloomer to this mind set of people. I actually feel I have an edge on trying to understand peoples goals in leaving this world to seek fantasy.

    *....*

    Come-on-admit-it.... were all in a holding pattern

    Thank you delete. it's funny in a casual way. I enjoy to red what you say.
    AlBQuirky
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