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LotRO's New Mini-Expansion Is Giving Me Mixed Feelings | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited October 2020 in News & Features Discussion

imageLotRO's New Mini-Expansion Is Giving Me Mixed Feelings | MMORPG.com

The Lord of the Rings Online's self-styled "mini-expansion" has definitely been controversial, so much so that it's giving Bradford, our resident LOTRO expert, mixed feelings. Is it truly something that should be called a "mini-expansion"or does it feel like a cash grab from what many feel is an inattentive studio?

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Comments

  • RaagnarzRaagnarz Member RarePosts: 577
    Simple answer desperation. Dwindling playerbase over the years, more so with the server issues/downtime, have more than likely left Standing Stone with little choice but to charge for everything now to keep the studio alive. It doesn't answer however why the total disregard for one of the best MMO communities ever to exist by not communicating with them at all during unforeseen downtime and this "expansion" charging lifetime players.
    SovrathFrodoFraginsircaddicts
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    Snook is not being his typical egotistical self on the forums.... that is Sus.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,905

    Raagnarz said:

    Simple answer desperation. Dwindling playerbase over the years, more so with the server issues/downtime, have more than likely left Standing Stone with little choice but to charge for everything now to keep the studio alive. It doesn't answer however why the total disregard for one of the best MMO communities ever to exist by not communicating with them at all during unforeseen downtime and this "expansion" charging lifetime players.



    Charging VIPs of any kind is where this change makes you wonder about SSG. I mean they just massively devalued the VIP system as a whole. Logically it makes sense I guess as the next step in desperation mode predatory behavior. They first broke their promise years ago of only having convenience items in the cash shop. After that it was clear that they would break more over time.

    As far as lifetimers go, of which I am one. We definitely have gotten too much over the years. I'd say they probably give out too much in points honestly. Well either that or they should never have made expansions purchasable with points.
  • foxgirlfoxgirl Member RarePosts: 485
    "We're going down in ash and smoke, but we want to milk you as much as possible!"
    Zutch[Deleted User]ircaddicts
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    edited October 2020
    Like I've been saying since this was announced, it's a very simple cut and paste of what ZOS did with chapters vs. DLC although in ESO's case they did take care to make Chapters kind of feel like super-DLCs - at least with the first 2.

    But same exact monetization: DLC are included with the sub and/or can be bought with the premium currency and Chapters are not and can not.

    I'm sure you will be able to buy the "Mini-Expansion" with your premium currency in a year's time because that's exactly what ESO does with their "Chapters" when they become DLC a year after release.

    It's the same playbook where they say "Hey our loyal subbers are getting too good of a deal. Let's squeeze them for a little more." 
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,754
    Caveat emptor.......
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    That Lifetime Sub, I wager is the main problem here. I mean, why make content if you can't make money off it.
    kitaradircaddicts
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,905
    remsleep said:
    Its always amazing to me how people stick around when there are so many red flags that keep showing them its time to leave the game
    It's the IP.  You can't get a more immersive experience in the LOTR world.  Some people aren't game hoppers and I bet a non negligible number of LOTRO players don't play many other games.
    ircaddicts
  • ashiru_1978ashiru_1978 Member RarePosts: 818

    remsleep said:

    Its always amazing to me how people stick around when there are so many red flags that keep showing them its time to leave the game



    Many are just too invested into it from lore perspective, the fact that they invested time, feelings and money into it and also there is no other LOTR MMO around. I think that's why they keep pretending like the game in great shape and very successful despite the fact that it isn't.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041

    remsleep said:

    Its always amazing to me how people stick around when there are so many red flags that keep showing them its time to leave the game



    Many are just too invested into it from lore perspective, the fact that they invested time, feelings and money into it and also there is no other LOTR MMO around. I think that's why they keep pretending like the game in great shape and very successful despite the fact that it isn't.
    Or many people simply enjoy the game? Crazy idea right?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • RavensworthRavensworth Member UncommonPosts: 78

    lahnmir said:





    remsleep said:


    Its always amazing to me how people stick around when there are so many red flags that keep showing them its time to leave the game






    Many are just too invested into it from lore perspective, the fact that they invested time, feelings and money into it and also there is no other LOTR MMO around. I think that's why they keep pretending like the game in great shape and very successful despite the fact that it isn't.


    Or many people simply enjoy the game? Crazy idea right?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir



    What a novel Idea. People who actually like the game. Plus all those lifetime subs....

    image
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    ashiru_1978 said:

    remsleep said:

    Its always amazing to me how people stick around when there are so many red flags that keep showing them its time to leave the game



    Many are just too invested into it from lore perspective, the fact that they invested time, feelings and money into it and also there is no other LOTR MMO around. I think that's why they keep pretending like the game in great shape and very successful despite the fact that it isn't.
    I don't think anyone is pretending that the game is in great shape.

    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,919
    FrodoFragins said:

    Raagnarz said:

    Simple answer desperation. Dwindling playerbase over the years, more so with the server issues/downtime, have more than likely left Standing Stone with little choice but to charge for everything now to keep the studio alive. It doesn't answer however why the total disregard for one of the best MMO communities ever to exist by not communicating with them at all during unforeseen downtime and this "expansion" charging lifetime players.



    Charging VIPs of any kind is where this change makes you wonder about SSG. I mean they just massively devalued the VIP system as a whole. Logically it makes sense I guess as the next step in desperation mode predatory behavior. They first broke their promise years ago of only having convenience items in the cash shop. After that it was clear that they would break more over time.

    As far as lifetimers go, of which I am one. We definitely have gotten too much over the years. I'd say they probably give out too much in points honestly. Well either that or they should never have made expansions purchasable with points.
    VIP is the one where you pay a sub right? As far as I recall a lot of games don't give paying sub the right to play the new expansion. You have to buy it to gain access even with a sub.
    Ungood

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    kitarad said:
    FrodoFragins said:

    Raagnarz said:

    Simple answer desperation. Dwindling playerbase over the years, more so with the server issues/downtime, have more than likely left Standing Stone with little choice but to charge for everything now to keep the studio alive. It doesn't answer however why the total disregard for one of the best MMO communities ever to exist by not communicating with them at all during unforeseen downtime and this "expansion" charging lifetime players.



    Charging VIPs of any kind is where this change makes you wonder about SSG. I mean they just massively devalued the VIP system as a whole. Logically it makes sense I guess as the next step in desperation mode predatory behavior. They first broke their promise years ago of only having convenience items in the cash shop. After that it was clear that they would break more over time.

    As far as lifetimers go, of which I am one. We definitely have gotten too much over the years. I'd say they probably give out too much in points honestly. Well either that or they should never have made expansions purchasable with points.
    VIP is the one where you pay a sub right? As far as I recall a lot of games don't give paying sub the right to play the new expansion. You have to buy it to gain access even with a sub.
    Yah, that is 100% correct. But you have a bunch of people that bought lifetime VIP's that are crying that it's not enough content to merit an expansion because they want it for free.

    Personally, even in this era, if 20 bucks is a bank breaker, you should be happy with what you get, choosy beggars are the worst.
    ircaddicts
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Does anyone else thing that SSG has lost whatever creative edge they once had?  Massive server issues they can't seem to fix and a couple of lackluster expansions, with an increasing reliance on a cash shop.  All overshadowed by their corporate resistance to step on their 'lifetime members' feelings.

    They've come to the end of the Tolkien story line and now they're struggling to expand the lore and story.  That's bad news when your business relies heavily on selling expansions.



    ircaddicts

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041
    Ungood said:
    kitarad said:
    FrodoFragins said:

    Raagnarz said:

    Simple answer desperation. Dwindling playerbase over the years, more so with the server issues/downtime, have more than likely left Standing Stone with little choice but to charge for everything now to keep the studio alive. It doesn't answer however why the total disregard for one of the best MMO communities ever to exist by not communicating with them at all during unforeseen downtime and this "expansion" charging lifetime players.



    Charging VIPs of any kind is where this change makes you wonder about SSG. I mean they just massively devalued the VIP system as a whole. Logically it makes sense I guess as the next step in desperation mode predatory behavior. They first broke their promise years ago of only having convenience items in the cash shop. After that it was clear that they would break more over time.

    As far as lifetimers go, of which I am one. We definitely have gotten too much over the years. I'd say they probably give out too much in points honestly. Well either that or they should never have made expansions purchasable with points.
    VIP is the one where you pay a sub right? As far as I recall a lot of games don't give paying sub the right to play the new expansion. You have to buy it to gain access even with a sub.
    Yah, that is 100% correct. But you have a bunch of people that bought lifetime VIP's that are crying that it's not enough content to merit an expansion because they want it for free.

    Personally, even in this era, if 20 bucks is a bank breaker, you should be happy with what you get, choosy beggars are the worst.
    Yeah, because getting 13 years of sub for 300 bucks wasn’t enough.... Lifetime subs are a big reason SSG is generating income by any means necessary.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Ungood
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,754
    FrodoFragins said:
    remsleep said:
    Its always amazing to me how people stick around when there are so many red flags that keep showing them its time to leave the game
    It's the IP.  You can't get a more immersive experience in the LOTR world.  Some people aren't game hoppers and I bet a non negligible number of LOTRO players don't play many other games.

    We see this in many IPs.....Any Star Wars game will gain the attention of many....Same with any game Blizzard makes.....Final Fantasy games have huge followings....Pokemon, Marvel comics, the list is endless....That's why these companies keep coming back with a known IP.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,919
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    kitarad said:
    FrodoFragins said:

    Raagnarz said:

    Simple answer desperation. Dwindling playerbase over the years, more so with the server issues/downtime, have more than likely left Standing Stone with little choice but to charge for everything now to keep the studio alive. It doesn't answer however why the total disregard for one of the best MMO communities ever to exist by not communicating with them at all during unforeseen downtime and this "expansion" charging lifetime players.



    Charging VIPs of any kind is where this change makes you wonder about SSG. I mean they just massively devalued the VIP system as a whole. Logically it makes sense I guess as the next step in desperation mode predatory behavior. They first broke their promise years ago of only having convenience items in the cash shop. After that it was clear that they would break more over time.

    As far as lifetimers go, of which I am one. We definitely have gotten too much over the years. I'd say they probably give out too much in points honestly. Well either that or they should never have made expansions purchasable with points.
    VIP is the one where you pay a sub right? As far as I recall a lot of games don't give paying sub the right to play the new expansion. You have to buy it to gain access even with a sub.
    Yah, that is 100% correct. But you have a bunch of people that bought lifetime VIP's that are crying that it's not enough content to merit an expansion because they want it for free.

    Personally, even in this era, if 20 bucks is a bank breaker, you should be happy with what you get, choosy beggars are the worst.
    Yeah, because getting 13 years of sub for 300 bucks wasn’t enough.... Lifetime subs are a big reason SSG is generating income by any means necessary.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    When they changed ownership could they not have gotten out of the lifetime membership by talking about substantial changes in the subscription and funding models. Odd that they never tried. 

    Are these lifetime memberships holding up the population?

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    kitarad said:
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    kitarad said:
    FrodoFragins said:

    Raagnarz said:

    Simple answer desperation. Dwindling playerbase over the years, more so with the server issues/downtime, have more than likely left Standing Stone with little choice but to charge for everything now to keep the studio alive. It doesn't answer however why the total disregard for one of the best MMO communities ever to exist by not communicating with them at all during unforeseen downtime and this "expansion" charging lifetime players.



    Charging VIPs of any kind is where this change makes you wonder about SSG. I mean they just massively devalued the VIP system as a whole. Logically it makes sense I guess as the next step in desperation mode predatory behavior. They first broke their promise years ago of only having convenience items in the cash shop. After that it was clear that they would break more over time.

    As far as lifetimers go, of which I am one. We definitely have gotten too much over the years. I'd say they probably give out too much in points honestly. Well either that or they should never have made expansions purchasable with points.
    VIP is the one where you pay a sub right? As far as I recall a lot of games don't give paying sub the right to play the new expansion. You have to buy it to gain access even with a sub.
    Yah, that is 100% correct. But you have a bunch of people that bought lifetime VIP's that are crying that it's not enough content to merit an expansion because they want it for free.

    Personally, even in this era, if 20 bucks is a bank breaker, you should be happy with what you get, choosy beggars are the worst.
    Yeah, because getting 13 years of sub for 300 bucks wasn’t enough.... Lifetime subs are a big reason SSG is generating income by any means necessary.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    When they changed ownership could they not have gotten out of the lifetime membership by talking about substantial changes in the subscription and funding models. Odd that they never tried. 

    Are these lifetime memberships holding up the population?
    Not really, but they do in fact make a huge part of the vocal minority that feels everything should be given to them for their VIP sub.

    The people that are actually carrying the game and keeping it alive are the people that just bought the expansion and carried on with their gaming fun.
    lahnmirkitaradircaddicts
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Gotta wonder how many people currently subbed to LOTRO have lifetime subs.

    Also just idly wondering... when a developer calls something an expansion, mini or otherwise, does that de facto make it so?

    Full disclosure: 1) no lifetime sub here. 2) I still play the game every couple of years or so (not lately) and sub when I do. 3) I actually read the article.
    Po_gg
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    edited November 2020
    Joseph, just replace the 'or' with a comma in your titular question... ain't "Cash grab or legit", but cash grab, legit.

    Iselin said:
    Also just idly wondering... when a developer calls something an expansion, mini or otherwise, does that de facto make it so?
    Nope, just makes it a cheap PR stunt to remove it from under the VIP benefits.
    VIPs have access to all the game content besides expansions, which technically means quest packs (since post-f2p the game content is divided into quest packs and expansions).

    The irony of it, just a few months ago they were promising to increase the value of the subscription... So they couldn't charge VIPs for a quest pack without losing credit (not that they've too much left), hence this re-label idea.
    Make no mistake, it ain't an expansion, not even a "mini" expansion, it's a quest pack.

    And as Adams said, if it looks like a quest pack, and it walks like a quest pack, and quacks like a quest pack, you can safely assume it's a  -  duck, if the devs dare to PR it as a duck instead of a quest pack.


    ed: Iselin's disclosure applies to me as well, have no LTS, still play LotRO several months every year (when it has its turn on my game hopping) and sub occasionally. Also, read the article, but that should be a given to anyone making a comment.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    It's what they claim it is.

    If they say it's an expansion, that is what they get to classify it as.

    Ideally, if you think their system is a scam, don't buy into it.

    But, personally, I think the idea of selling content is about as honest a transaction that a game company can provide.

    I mean I really don't get the crying going on, as DDO (Their other game) Just dumped out a new Expansion for 40 to 120, called the Fey Wilds.

    And you all here crying about 20 bucks.
    Sovrathlahnmirircaddicts
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

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