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Dual Universe Bans Marketplace Thieves - Community Reacts | MMORPG.com

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited October 2020 in News & Features Discussion

imageDual Universe Bans Marketplace Thieves - Community Reacts | MMORPG.com

In a recent reddit post, players have stolen a marketplace in Dual Universe. No, not just the items in the marketplace, but the entirety of the marketplace as a whole. The development team has responded in several ways, but to much of the dismay of the players, they have also banned the players involved.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,125
    edited October 2020
    They should actually be asking players to try and break the game so they can fix this stuff now. I fee if they needed to give anything perhaps a warning is necessary for this round; beyond that a perma-ban seems a little excessive for an alpha. If anything they wanted testing, they got testing.
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  • mrputtsmrputts Member UncommonPosts: 283
    edited October 2020
    So I have no idea what this game is or whether it is in beta or not. I am going to assume that it is for the remainder of the post.


    Beta is first and foremost about breaking shit. Find the F ups in what the devs have made. If it was not 3rd party tools that were used. It is all technically within the bounds of the game. So no they should not be banned for doing their role as beta testers.


    Now with the line of communication. Reddit whether Devs like it or not is a line of communication among players. I would argue it is the largest line. Even if it is unofficial it should not make it illegitimate. Because they did "Brag" about it that is a form of letting the community know what happened this is not hiding to exploit at launch. They are there to find issues after all. Who cares if they were having a little fun with it. They are getting free testers. These are not paid employees.

    So IMHO I feel like the Devs are in the wrong. It should not matter if it was not communicated properly. It was communicated.

    I feel this speaks to a larger issue about how Devs view Beta. The culture around it needs to change for Free Publicity, back to looking for bugs and exploits in a 90%+ feature complete product that is looking to fix everything before launch.
    Post edited by mrputts on
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  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,903
    It's mostly impressive that it took till Monday till someone decided to actually do something.   They moved the markets on Friday, players let the devs know that Friday and into Saturday...   And it wasn't till Monday that someone in a Sandbox game decided to abuse a bug as simple as entering build mode, in a voxel building game.
    Gdemami

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    anemo said:
    It's mostly impressive that it took till Monday till someone decided to actually do something.   They moved the markets on Friday, players let the devs know that Friday and into Saturday...   And it wasn't till Monday that someone in a Sandbox game decided to abuse a bug as simple as entering build mode, in a voxel building game.
    Well, it is being developed by a french company, a country not known for their long working hours, likely everyone had gone home for the weekend.


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  • timeraidertimeraider Member UncommonPosts: 865
    I think the devs should be ashamed. THEY fuck something up, players simply use what is possible within the game of the developers (no hacks, cheats etc.) and then the devs blame the players and ban them?
    Zero respect for these devs.
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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    mrputts said:
     Who cares if they were having a little fun with it. 
    ...other testers? Devs that then must fix the mess caused by bug exploitation? Staff/devs that has to go through investigation of said exploit? etc.

    Lots of dev wasted time there because some people can't behave. Maintaining public test server does not come free.
    KyleranTacticalZombehSandmanjwircaddictsNyghthowlerReverielle
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    I think the devs should be ashamed. THEY fuck something up, players simply use what is possible within the game of the developers (no hacks, cheats etc.) and then the devs blame the players and ban them?
    Zero respect for these devs.

    And they payed $30 or more to the company too...

    The game is in beta with a limited number of people playing so what's the big deal? Imagine if this happened when the game had fully launched + 1 year in...

    Reimburse the people who lost stuff, thank the people who did this, fix the problem and move on. If anything it was free publicity.

    A little reddit or social media boasting is the norm in 2020 just look at that Albion guild thief not so long ago. It provides good entertainment and points out flaws in both game and human design.

    Yes it sux they made the devs look like fools but rise above that and "be most excellent to each other".
    Kyleran[Deleted User][Deleted User]Sandmanjwircaddicts
  • ScarranScarran Member UncommonPosts: 102
    The ban is a bit of an overreaction and if I was on the development team I would want people to break the game as severe as this during beta so it can be fixed.

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. Don't get me wrong, could they have gone about reporting it better? Yes. But the developers have to take a look at the other side of the coin, why did they do it this way?

    Was it done because there is a lack of exploit reporting tools/methods available to players?
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited October 2020
    Scarran said:
    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. 
    There is a very clear line between reporting a bug and exploiting it.

    The ban was issued for exploitation of the bug, not miscommunicating it.

    They knew they are crossing the line - they even left the message "Please no ban", yet they marched forward.

    You raep what you sow.
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  • DairiosDairios Member UncommonPosts: 22

    Gdemami said:


    Scarran said:

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. 


    There is a very clear line between reporting a bug and exploiting it.

    The ban was issued for exploitation of the bug, not miscommunicating it.

    They knew they are crossing the line - they even left the message "Please no ban", yet they marched forward.

    You raep what you sow.



    This. Its one thing to find a bug and report it, its another to knowingly take advantage of the bug/exploit for whatever personal reasons. Report the bug, but don't abuse it. It's a very simple concept. What possible advantage or gains could you get from abusing an exploit and then gloating about it on reddit?
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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    Scarran said:
    The ban is a bit of an overreaction and if I was on the development team I would want people to break the game as severe as this during beta so it can be fixed.

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. Don't get me wrong, could they have gone about reporting it better? Yes. But the developers have to take a look at the other side of the coin, why did they do it this way?

    Was it done because there is a lack of exploit reporting tools/methods available to players?

    They do want people to break the game.

    what they then want is to report breaking the game.

    You see....

    They know how to break the game ... they just don't know how to report the beak ...



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  • NanbinoNanbino Member UncommonPosts: 168
    edited October 2020
    This company just got my boycott. This is what gamers are supposed to do. Before gaming went into the toilet, we were paid to find exploits like this, the fact it came out naturally is a gift. Free gift. The real issue is the devs too stupid to know how to change it. Or not enough time or money. Or lazy.
    reminds me of just about every Chinese mmorpg I play. We find an exploit like chain ganks, or holes in dungeon walls..
    And instead of patching it... They say "don't do it" and ban people... Usually with no investigation just rumors.

    Then there's Russia, you mention a bug in forums, your banned lol

    Sad really. Just shows despite claims to be sand box, and realistic, and intuitive, they destroy community efforts. Thevreason we are nor larping or playing Dnd is because the digital format requires fun times picking away at its firework. It's like in wow when we were so involved in every nook a'd cranny we'd find the lamp in village that makes you fall through map... The mountain you climb to jump glitch a ledge and get into a dungeon faster. Etc.
    Fun. Engaging. Dedicated to your product. Banning people for creativity sounds as communist as gets, cross fingers this isn't a USA based game, but now a days... No surprise.
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  • evolgrinzevolgrinz Member UncommonPosts: 151
    So the developers screwed up, the players found the bug and then get banned for it?
    Well, guess I won't be playing this game if that is the mentality of the developers.
    GdemamiWylfircaddictsKyleranIselin
  • KirtisKirtis Member UncommonPosts: 39
    edited October 2020
    I am participating in closed early beta test of another game and one of developers of that game directly said: "break everything, you can! And if you can't break it, find the way to break it!" - that is the attitude of game developer who wants his game to be polished and made ready for release. It does not matter where the information has been released - NDA has been lifted off from DU a while ago so they have full right to discuss and announce information about the game where ever they want.

    I was following the development of DU for a while, but now I am glad I did not give them my money as they not only sell access to the testing for money (which they should give for free and be thankful that someone tests their product and does not ask salary for that), but even dare to ban people who really did what they were meant to do and spent their own money to support their game development... I would definitely sue NQ if I would be among those whom they banned and NQ would loose in those disputes 100%. And even now they lost more valuable thing - they lost respect. Money can be lost and earned quite easy, but reputation loss won't be restored that fast and it will have long lasting consequences.
    GdemamiMendel
  • mrputtsmrputts Member UncommonPosts: 283

    Gdemami said:


    Scarran said:

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. 


    There is a very clear line between reporting a bug and exploiting it.

    The ban was issued for exploitation of the bug, not miscommunicating it.

    They knew they are crossing the line - they even left the message "Please no ban", yet they marched forward.

    You raep what you sow.



    I don't know if I would personally call this exploiting.

    ex·ploit
    verb
    /ikˈsploit/
    make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).


    I don't believe it would fall under the text book definition of exploit. Doing it once and Posting about it is not making full use, nor is it really deriving benefit.

    I would argue posting it on reddit is a loose form of reporting. Especially if they did try to reach the devs like the poster claims.

    Remember this is Beta testing. Not a Live Product
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  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,067
    edited October 2020
    Well a small ban and slap on the wrist would have been enough. After all they found an important exploit. Well they did go to town with the discovery but the punishment does not fit in my opinion.
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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited October 2020
    mrputts said:
    I would argue posting it on reddit is a loose form of reporting. 
    ...and you would lose your argument again.

    What they did is a text book example of bug exploitation and neither you report bugs via channels others than instructed by developers

    Your perception on bug hunting is entirely fucked up.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 16,947
    edited October 2020
    mrputts said:

    Gdemami said:


    Scarran said:

    All this ban does is make current players/testers hesitant on reporting future exploits for fear of receiving the ban hammer. 


    There is a very clear line between reporting a bug and exploiting it.

    The ban was issued for exploitation of the bug, not miscommunicating it.

    They knew they are crossing the line - they even left the message "Please no ban", yet they marched forward.

    You raep what you sow.



    I don't know if I would personally call this exploiting.

    ex·ploit
    verb
    /ikˈsploit/
    make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).


    I don't believe it would fall under the text book definition of exploit. Doing it once and Posting about it is not making full use, nor is it really deriving benefit.

    I would argue posting it on reddit is a loose form of reporting. Especially if they did try to reach the devs like the poster claims.

    Remember this is Beta testing. Not a Live Product
    Are players currently paying a sub to play?  I know my free beta key came with 3 months sub time but if people are paying for this then it’s at least in some ways a live product.
    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited October 2020
    Sharne said:
    I would argue..
    There is your problem - it's non-arguable. What you think about the rules is irrelevant.

    You either follows the rules or you don't, and in that case there is a good chance you will be banned, and rightfully so.
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  • WylfWylf Member UncommonPosts: 376

    evolgrinz said:

    So the developers screwed up, the players found the bug and then get banned for it?

    Well, guess I won't be playing this game if that is the mentality of the developers.



    Agree, one more game not worth playing.
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  • SandmanjwSandmanjw Member RarePosts: 526
    More entitled idjits here than usual.

    This was a textbook reason for a ban, beta or not. They took the whole building that people could use to play the game. Not only making the dev's have to fix everything but stopped all the other players that wanted/needed to use it.

    This goes so far passed the point of an obvious exploit that will affect the whole game that should not be used, it is not even questionable.

    Anyone that thinks otherwise, i am sure the Dev's thank you for NOT being in their game, you would cause more problems than you would be worth.

    Thinking it is ok to cause damage and monetary loss and still get to play and have fun....idiots.



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  • DeathtognomesDeathtognomes Member UncommonPosts: 155
    That last line of the image from reddit [quote]..,however they didnt accept messages. [/quote]

    Thats always the issue when trying to report game breaking bugs. The overreaction by banning the players is uncalled for and should actually be rewarded. That being said, it seems the hack was the only way to get the Devs attention, shame on the Devs here.
    GdemamimaskedweaselKyleran
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,173
    Break the game but don't break it that much. 

    Honestly this shouldn't have been a big deal at all, simply restoring from a backup and fixing the issue would have worked, with a temp ban. 

    It's clear that based on the developers response they are a very small team without the capabilities of handling normal testing. 

    It's clear that they are attempting to make an example of these players. Sad for both sides, because it's really a bad look. How many players get banned in beta for finding exploits? 

    Recently in Marvel's Avengers Beta, players were having to hack the game files to utilize the two missing characters during open beta. Bans were threatened. They never happened. 

    The team also chose not to fix game file editing exploits either. 

    No doubt this was done by novaquark to try and dissuade people from doing this kind of stuff, but their ineptitude won't fix their game. They learned a lesson, but their screw ups will now go woefully unnoticed, and when the game is finally live, they'll realize they should have been more lenient in banning people who were actually finding bugs AND REPORTING THEM, even if they weren't around to receive those messages. 

    It sounds like from the responses in the reddit post too, it's not so much that they took the building but that they posted about it, making the team look even more foolish. That's why they said "if you had come to us instead of posting on reddit".... yeah, it's clear they're just mad that their screw up went public while the team was having a relaxing weekend.
    GdemamiKyleran



  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    That last line of the image from reddit [quote]..,however they didnt accept messages. [/quote]

    Thats always the issue when trying to report game breaking bugs. The overreaction by banning the players is uncalled for and should actually be rewarded. That being said, it seems the hack was the only way to get the Devs attention, shame on the Devs here.
    Your image didn't come through.

    Here's the thing ...

    Is there a way to report bugs and issues? Not e-mailing the devs, but a system in game or on a site (or perhaps e-mailing an account that is looked at solely for bugs.) 

    If there is, did they actually report it?

    And if they did, did they do it as soon as they found the issue (in a reasonable time frame) or did they take advantage of it and eventually report it?

    If I had players testing a game and they screwed around and messed things up and eventually reported it then I'd want them removed as well. 

    If they found the issue, discovered the extent of what could be done and then reported it then they shouldn't be banned.


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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    edited October 2020
    What's very clear is how badly broken the moral and ethical compasses are for many folks here, it's like they have no ability to discern when they've crossed the line.

    Can't believe how many posts I've had to agree with @Gdemami on, has to be more than I typically do over two or three years.

    C'mon folks, knowing right from wrong really isn't that hard.... If it causes harm to others just don't do it.

    Or as someone famous once said,


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