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Since 2002, what been the reason that PvE players play FFA Loot MMOs?

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Comments

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    tzervo said:

    To me, and sorry if it shocks someone, it's a player that needs a good reality check, possibly in the form of a IRL hand in his face. I call that a cyberbully, a coward hidden behind a screen to behave like an asshole.

    It's the same kind of guys who camped outside of Britain 24/24 in UO and forced the devs to add Trammel in order to keep customers.
    To me this shows first and foremost a flaw in the game design. You cannot rely on the whole playerbase to behave. If a game does not want a particular behaviour, the devs should put hard-coded barriers for it, or cover it in the EULA so that they can cull such behaviours. So this either shows an oversight, or the devs say they don't mind this. Or maybe they do and the griefer got reported and banned afterwards.
    Not even having a couple seconds of immunity after reviving is stupid in itself. 
    [Deleted User]Kyleran

  • Morgenes83Morgenes83 Member UncommonPosts: 286
    edited September 2020
    Its always the same.
    - Idiots with to much time or to least RL do mindless ganking
    - People leave the game because of them and game dies.
    - Gankers: 
    https://en.meming.world/wiki/File:Surprised_Pikachu_HD.jpg/

    1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO 

    Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    edited September 2020
    tzervo said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    bcbully said:

    It’s just a game relax lol 
    Says the player whose  philiosophy of video games is to "win at all costs."

    Pot, meet Kettle ;)
    Trying to win using all legal means is not the opposite of being chill about it being a game.

    When playing a game/MMO I am passionate about improving and finding ways to win. But if someone "wins" over me, kills me and steals my stuff I laugh, I write "gf" on chat (if applicable) and then try to find out how that fucker killed me so that it does not happen again. That's the fun in these games.

    It's a perfectly healthy mentality: being passionate about your hobby and wanting to improve, but not at the expense of recognising it is a game or at the expense of remaining human. :D
    I agree, yet "win at all costs" includes cheating.
    Catibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    tzervo said:
    Its always the same.
    - Idiots with to much time or to least RL do mindless ganking- People leave the game because of them and game dies.
    I always found it sillly to put gankers and griefers/psychos in the same pot. Ganking is a valid way to play in many of these games. Albion Online for example (one of the games that did not die but actually does well, even though it incorporates ganking as a core gameplay loop) gives specialized gear to both gankers and gatherers:

    - The ganker tries to rob the gatherer and the gatherer tries to escape with the harvested mats.
    - If the gatherer is more competent, they will evade the gankers and profit
    - If the ganker(s) are more competent, they will loot the gatherer and profit.
    - This also increases the importance of territory control with high value materials in the context of guild warfare.

    It's all just a matter of designing it right and giving tools and chances to flourish to both sides.
    Yet the choice is there. Just because I can punch some asshole in the face IRL doesn't mean I do it. It takes a "special mentality" to gank.
    NanfoodleKyleranAmarantharCatibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    I like gaming with consequences, be in PvE or PvP. I am a fan of both types of games but I have not and will not play FFA loot PvP but people that likes heavy consequences in PvP most likely enjoy that system. 
    AlBQuirkyCatibrie
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    AlBQuirky said:
    tzervo said:
    Its always the same.
    - Idiots with to much time or to least RL do mindless ganking- People leave the game because of them and game dies.
    I always found it sillly to put gankers and griefers/psychos in the same pot. Ganking is a valid way to play in many of these games. Albion Online for example (one of the games that did not die but actually does well, even though it incorporates ganking as a core gameplay loop) gives specialized gear to both gankers and gatherers:

    - The ganker tries to rob the gatherer and the gatherer tries to escape with the harvested mats.
    - If the gatherer is more competent, they will evade the gankers and profit
    - If the ganker(s) are more competent, they will loot the gatherer and profit.
    - This also increases the importance of territory control with high value materials in the context of guild warfare.

    It's all just a matter of designing it right and giving tools and chances to flourish to both sides.
    Yet the choice is there. Just because I can punch some asshole in the face IRL doesn't mean I do it. It takes a "special mentality" to gank.
    I have found most PvPers to be good gamers and gankers are the few that give PvP a bad name but any anti-ganking mechanics a game can add is a good thing IMO. 
    AlBQuirkyCatibrie
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,739
    tzervo said:

    To me, and sorry if it shocks someone, it's a player that needs a good reality check, possibly in the form of a IRL hand in his face. I call that a cyberbully, a coward hidden behind a screen to behave like an asshole.

    It's the same kind of guys who camped outside of Britain 24/24 in UO and forced the devs to add Trammel in order to keep customers.
    To me this shows first and foremost a flaw in the game design. You cannot rely on the whole playerbase to behave. If a game does not want a particular behaviour, the devs should put hard-coded barriers for it, or cover it in the EULA so that they can cull such behaviours. So this either shows an oversight, or the devs say they don't mind this. Or maybe they do and the griefer got reported and banned afterwards.

    Agreed, but it still says a lot about the mentality of the players who engage in such "activties"...
    As someone said, PvP means cheaters, but also brings the worst out of some people.

    This mentality is why some education professionals want video games banned. THey think it brings out the demons in some people that may lead them to do awful things in RL.
    Iselin
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    Nanfoodle said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    tzervo said:
    Its always the same.
    - Idiots with to much time or to least RL do mindless ganking- People leave the game because of them and game dies.
    I always found it sillly to put gankers and griefers/psychos in the same pot. Ganking is a valid way to play in many of these games. Albion Online for example (one of the games that did not die but actually does well, even though it incorporates ganking as a core gameplay loop) gives specialized gear to both gankers and gatherers:

    - The ganker tries to rob the gatherer and the gatherer tries to escape with the harvested mats.
    - If the gatherer is more competent, they will evade the gankers and profit
    - If the ganker(s) are more competent, they will loot the gatherer and profit.
    - This also increases the importance of territory control with high value materials in the context of guild warfare.

    It's all just a matter of designing it right and giving tools and chances to flourish to both sides.
    Yet the choice is there. Just because I can punch some asshole in the face IRL doesn't mean I do it. It takes a "special mentality" to gank.
    I have found most PvPers to be good gamers and gankers are the few that give PvP a bad name but any anti-ganking mechanics a game can add is a good thing IMO. 
    Yes, I agree that most PvP'ers enjoy competition of that kind. It just takes one, maybe 2 gankers to soil their victims' opinions on PvP forever.
    NanfoodleCatibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • BrainyBrainy Member EpicPosts: 2,026
    Nanfoodle said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    tzervo said:
    Its always the same.
    - Idiots with to much time or to least RL do mindless ganking- People leave the game because of them and game dies.
    I always found it sillly to put gankers and griefers/psychos in the same pot. Ganking is a valid way to play in many of these games. Albion Online for example (one of the games that did not die but actually does well, even though it incorporates ganking as a core gameplay loop) gives specialized gear to both gankers and gatherers:

    - The ganker tries to rob the gatherer and the gatherer tries to escape with the harvested mats.
    - If the gatherer is more competent, they will evade the gankers and profit
    - If the ganker(s) are more competent, they will loot the gatherer and profit.
    - This also increases the importance of territory control with high value materials in the context of guild warfare.

    It's all just a matter of designing it right and giving tools and chances to flourish to both sides.
    Yet the choice is there. Just because I can punch some asshole in the face IRL doesn't mean I do it. It takes a "special mentality" to gank.
    I have found most PvPers to be good gamers and gankers are the few that give PvP a bad name but any anti-ganking mechanics a game can add is a good thing IMO. 

    I am not buying this gankers are the few stuff.  Just look at any OW PVP, ganking is all over.
    Here are examples

    Ark/Atlas,  mega tribes all have alliances not to attack eachother, but if you log on as a solo player, build a 1x1 stone base hidden in the most remote place possible.  They will search the entire map just to blow your tiny little hidden base to smithereens.   Its not 1 or 2 people, its a coordinated attack to kill 1 guy.  They pillar the entire map so nobody can even get a foothold.  They want ZERO competition.

    Take other MMO's where you try to ally other clans to attack a mega clan, but always ALWAYS some clan will wait until you attack, then they will be secretly allied with the mega and kill the newb tribe, not when they are strongest, but when they are weakest.  So the mega clans ally with other clans to attack newb clans.

    I remember in DAOC we would have a little 8 man group running around outside Albion, dozens of Albions all sitting at the guarded portal keep, you cant get them to even try to fight unless they can zerg with 100 people.  10v1 is when they start to think its fair.

    Ive seen PVPers dominate so hard, they literally kill the entire server, then wonder why the PVP server is dead.  This is standard procedure.  This is the way most of them think.

    Only time they fight fair or competitive is when the game forces it.  You can debate whether this is just PVP and they want to win or whatever, but this is why they dont mix well with PVE'ers.
    Ungood
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    Some players play both like i do.

    I prefer games with PvP in them as it gives me options to control my risk.

    EVE does that well, mortal online did not. I also like to have some edge when i play, hence hardcore Path of Exile. 
    [Deleted User]AlBQuirkyKyleran
    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    tzervo said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Yet the choice is there. Just because I can punch some asshole in the face IRL doesn't mean I do it. It takes a "special mentality" to gank.
    No no no! That's really the wrong way to think about it. And that comes from someone that plays the gatherer and not the ganker. This is akin to accusing the jungler in LOL for ganking.

    Sure the nasty fellas would play the ganker and not the gatherer. But painting everyone with a broad brush is always wrong. I played with many gankers that were fine folks and perfectly civil, they just enjoyed hunting more than evading. It's really that simple.
    Think why players PvP. Most will say "for a challenge that AI can't give them."

    If this is so, then why do too many of them attack "no challenge" players? You can scoff at "honor and fair fights" if you like, but let's address "challenge." Unless your response was tongue-in-cheek and I totally missed it :)
    kitaradCatibrieKyleranBrainy[Deleted User]

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,885
    edited October 2020
    AlBQuirky said:
    tzervo said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Yet the choice is there. Just because I can punch some asshole in the face IRL doesn't mean I do it. It takes a "special mentality" to gank.
    No no no! That's really the wrong way to think about it. And that comes from someone that plays the gatherer and not the ganker. This is akin to accusing the jungler in LOL for ganking.

    Sure the nasty fellas would play the ganker and not the gatherer. But painting everyone with a broad brush is always wrong. I played with many gankers that were fine folks and perfectly civil, they just enjoyed hunting more than evading. It's really that simple.
    Think why players PvP. Most will say "for a challenge that AI can't give them."

    If this is so, then why do too many of them attack "no challenge" players? You can scoff at "honor and fair fights" if you like, but let's address "challenge." Unless your response was tongue-in-cheek and I totally missed it  :)

    Even in BGs in WoW which has some fairness in it because of the matchmaking and so on they gather around the graveyard and keep killing the respawned players until the players just quit. Happened to me as a Horde player so many times I quit the server at one point. I had made a few toons only for BGs and this really upset my apple cart. Or they take  the flag and go up to some glitched point and cheat and the game just goes on for a long time until the other side quits.

    I am not saying PvE players don't cheat but I always read about how AI is no match for a real player and yet I seldom encounter people who don't want numbers on their side when they take on other players. They want a stacked deck. That does not sound like players who want an actual challenge. I'm not saying every PvP player is like that but they just want to win at all cost and that includes cheating.

    At least when I solo some hard boss in PvE I'm probably taking more risk than some PvP players killing lowbies in a  zone. Honestly I think some PvP players want to feel powerful having beaten a real life player and preferably with no risk to themselves and then they can tell themselves they triumphed over another real life person and that is more satisfying than an AI. Plus insulting an AI has no effect.

    I just don't see the way some players play a game as being in line with more challenge. I am not arguing that every PvP player is like that but a lot of PvE players too just AOE everything down and feel powerful as they rush through the dungeon. It isn't the wrong or right way to play but saying I play PvP because I like the unpredictability of a real life player and then going to a zone and killing players many levels lower than you or ganging up on a person gathering herbs isn't illustrative of this.

    I know I should not admit to this but I do read the forums of PvP games and read what players complain of. I do this because even though I may never play the game I want to confirm my fears of how the game really is. Granted I may never encounter what these players come across but it merely reaffirms my already biased view about the type of players that flock to these games.

    I'm sorry if I sound like a judgmental ass but every time I read the complaints and some are systemic or a particular guild goes on doing this with the developers throwing up their hands in frustration it just makes me think that developers aren't equipped to handle their players and the worst go unpunished and destroy their own game.

    I know some streamers actually gain a following claiming how they intend to destroy some individual or faction by amassing numbers to destroy them. All this points to a game that I personally have no wish to be in. It could be that I am only looking at the negative aspects of things and forgetting about all the fun good BGs gave me but the bad ones are also what stayed in my memory and coloured my good ones but they say you take the good with the bad.
    Post edited by kitarad on
    AlBQuirkyUngoodKyleranBrainycheyane

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