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OPINION: Microsoft's ZeniMax Acquisition is Bad for Consumers (Shank Rants)

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,865
    Aeander said:
    I'm glad that Gamepass exists for people who like saving via a subscription service.

    I am not one of those people. I like purchasing games directly, at my own pace, and at a price I am comfortable with. That gives me "voting" power - the power to support what I like and not support what I don't like. That doesn't exist on a subscription service like Gamepass. 


    The existence of the service does not in any way prevent you from purchasing any game you want.  As you say... it's good for those that enjoy it, and it doesn't harm those that do not.  My personal preference has always been to OWN my games.  That said,  getting access to all these games until April 2023 (plus many more to come) for $131 was far too good a deal to pass up.   Either way,  MS buying Zenimax just makes this even better for everyone except people who exclusively play games on a PS5.  But as a PC Gamer I like it. A lot. 

    xpsync

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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,312
    Aeander said:
    I'm glad that Gamepass exists for people who like saving via a subscription service.

    I am not one of those people. I like purchasing games directly, at my own pace, and at a price I am comfortable with. That gives me "voting" power - the power to support what I like and not support what I don't like. That doesn't exist on a subscription service like Gamepass. 


    The existence of the service does not in any way prevent you from purchasing any game you want.  As you say... it's good for those that enjoy it, and it doesn't harm those that do not.  My personal preference has always been to OWN my games.  That said,  getting access to all these games until April 2023 (plus many more to come) for $131 was far too good a deal to pass up.   Either way,  MS buying Zenimax just makes this even better for everyone except people who exclusively play games on a PS5.  But as a PC Gamer I like it. A lot. 

    It does not prevent me from buying any game I want. But it also subsidizes games that I do not want. If I have Gamepass, some percentage of my money is going to every single developer involved with Gamepass. EA play is now a part of Gamepass. Meaning that I am subsidizing EA whether I like it or not. 
    [Deleted User]Nanfoodlexpsync
  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,854
    There is a lot of market spoiling going on and Epic started it, from my limited paying attention to what is always going on.

    Steam is great for sales, a great example was Just Cause 4 was on sale, big fan of 1 and 2, 3 meh, figured wtf complete the collection on my steam account.

    Steam is my library, i don't care if it's on sale anywhere else i want it all under one umbrella and I'm not alone, steam has practically every gamer there is on their platform.

    That's very hard to compete with, specially when the sales are so crazy as 90% off.

    EA laughingly tried to compete with steam offering free garbage games.

    EPIC stumbled upon a money geyser and yeah compete with steam by becoming a market spoiler, offering free games but not crap games, i mean in there i was on a long streak of getting 60 dollar games every week.

    Haha building my library, clever move epic.

    To demonstrate how the market spoiler works i was totally ready to buy Just Cause 4 for next to nothing, but wait i should check Epic i think i got that free?

    Well what do you know, i already own it, checked it out on epic and yeah meh just another jc, and didn't buy it on steam, where that was a for sure sale for them.

    Death by a thousands cuts right, Railroad empire almost bought that on steam sale, i like those games at times, but /record scratch moment, checked and yeah i already own it for free on Epic, another sale lost.

    Then you have stadia rolling around in there as in streaming games service, PS has exclusives which is starting to look like losing scenario for them, SO what's MS to do to compete with all that.

    Make their own steam/epic storefront, but how to compete?

    Market spoil option, everything is free for a low monthly sub. And we are not talking garbage games, a plethora of triple A games which probably dwarfs most peoples steam libraries and now they have brought in one of the largest franchises in existence.

    It makes one wonder how long this model could hold up? How will this finally wash out? Will be a great show and without a doubt a great time to be a gamer.
    [Deleted User]
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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 15,865
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    I'm glad that Gamepass exists for people who like saving via a subscription service.

    I am not one of those people. I like purchasing games directly, at my own pace, and at a price I am comfortable with. That gives me "voting" power - the power to support what I like and not support what I don't like. That doesn't exist on a subscription service like Gamepass. 


    The existence of the service does not in any way prevent you from purchasing any game you want.  As you say... it's good for those that enjoy it, and it doesn't harm those that do not.  My personal preference has always been to OWN my games.  That said,  getting access to all these games until April 2023 (plus many more to come) for $131 was far too good a deal to pass up.   Either way,  MS buying Zenimax just makes this even better for everyone except people who exclusively play games on a PS5.  But as a PC Gamer I like it. A lot. 

    It does not prevent me from buying any game I want. But it also subsidizes games that I do not want. If I have Gamepass, some percentage of my money is going to every single developer involved with Gamepass. EA play is now a part of Gamepass. Meaning that I am subsidizing EA whether I like it or not. 
    No... my point was that you can skip it and buy any games you want without using the GamePass.  As far as I know there is no "Gamepass Exclusive".  So this IMHO is a great situation where you can do you and I can do me.  Seems like a win/win.
    [Deleted User]

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  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,312
    edited September 2020
    Aeander said:
    Aeander said:
    I'm glad that Gamepass exists for people who like saving via a subscription service.

    I am not one of those people. I like purchasing games directly, at my own pace, and at a price I am comfortable with. That gives me "voting" power - the power to support what I like and not support what I don't like. That doesn't exist on a subscription service like Gamepass. 


    The existence of the service does not in any way prevent you from purchasing any game you want.  As you say... it's good for those that enjoy it, and it doesn't harm those that do not.  My personal preference has always been to OWN my games.  That said,  getting access to all these games until April 2023 (plus many more to come) for $131 was far too good a deal to pass up.   Either way,  MS buying Zenimax just makes this even better for everyone except people who exclusively play games on a PS5.  But as a PC Gamer I like it. A lot. 

    It does not prevent me from buying any game I want. But it also subsidizes games that I do not want. If I have Gamepass, some percentage of my money is going to every single developer involved with Gamepass. EA play is now a part of Gamepass. Meaning that I am subsidizing EA whether I like it or not. 
    No... my point was that you can skip it and buy any games you want without using the GamePass.  As far as I know there is no "Gamepass Exclusive".  So this IMHO is a great situation where you can do you and I can do me.  Seems like a win/win.
    Then why is this a point of conversation in the first place? I said "I'm glad that Gamepass exists for people who like saving via a subscription service. I'm not one of them."  That's pretty unambiguous. I'm personally glad that this consumer option exists so you can do you.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,641
    edited September 2020
    No... my point was that you can skip it and buy any games you want without using the GamePass.  As far as I know there is no "Gamepass Exclusive".  So this IMHO is a great situation where you can do you and I can do me.  Seems like a win/win.
    I've seen some concerns that MS will try to get a massive sub base and continue increasing the GamePass price aggressively over time.  And I guess that GamePasss exclusives could certainly be a thing someday.

    Personally, MS is never going to get a monopoly on games and I don't think they are dumb enough to gouge GamePass subs any time soon.  Their strategy is smart and acquiring Zenimax, and any other future studios with great IPs, is what they HAVE to do to start grabbing some of those PS-only players. 

    My younger self would have loved GamePass as it's a more convenient replacement to renting games from Blockbuster back in the day.  My current self barely plays more than two games each month and so buying them cheap on Steam or getting them free on Epic is far better for me.

    I definitely get a little joy in seeing the PS fanboys finally getting a taste of their own medicine here.  They never saw an issue with the amazing Sony games NEVER making it to PC.  At least until Sony recently changed their stance here.



  • OmegaXtcOmegaXtc Member UncommonPosts: 35
    Oh well, real gamers play on PC and Microsoft dominates the PC platform, so rock n roll.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    edited September 2020
    OmegaXtc said:
    Oh well, real gamers play on PC and Microsoft dominates the PC platform, so rock n roll.

    real gamers play games and don't make dumb comments like this.
    Aeander[Deleted User]




  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,312
    OmegaXtc said:
    Oh well, real gamers play on PC and Microsoft dominates the PC platform, so rock n roll.
    Real gamers multiplatform.
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,747
    I remember not long ago when gamers thought of Microsoft as the devil and Linux was the great white hope. We gamers are a fickle and mercurial bunch.

    image
  • DreycraftDreycraft Member UncommonPosts: 107
    Finally at least ONE games journalist has the balls to stand up and spit the truth, I have been astounded by the reaction. Most people are acting like bratty 10 year-olds over the aquisition, and if you DARE speak out then you must be a "Sony Pony" and that's just complete nonsense, there are plenty of reasons why this aquisition is just flat out bad for the industry. This aquisition is anti-consumer, period, and does nothing but piss off millions of gamers who were already committed to a console and cannot afford anything else. And it is not the same as PS and Nintendo exclusives, Bethesda was a massive THIRD party developer for many, many years. And of course it just showed that Phil Spencer is a hypocrite, and this move has potentially set a bad precedent going forward, where there will no longer be third party developers, and if you claim that is a good thing, I will call you a liar.
  • DreycraftDreycraft Member UncommonPosts: 107
    edited September 2020
    LordRhys said:

    Albatroes said:

    This article is a little naive imo....All the exclusives Sony has had over the years and what is the ONE thing that people have always told Microsoft they've lacked.....Exclusives.....so now they solve that problem....and people complain. Just blame Sony at this point. The one thing Microsoft is doing right is incorporating the PC market this time around. What is Sony doing exactly? If sony wants to barter with God of War or something, that helps everyone....The only people I see really suffering from this deal are people who only support Sony (nintendo too I guess).



    I agree, this is Sony getting bit in their ass for their arrogance, they started the exclusivity wars way back when original XBox came out, they should have relied on the ability of their hardware to outclass and not start a war they could not win. Sony has always been a miser which is why many of their own game dev studios have disbanded and restarted as independents or with another company.


    Are you like 12 years old or something? You honestly think SONY started the exclusives battle, truly? LMAO!! Oh man that is some funny stuff right there. No, no, they were just playing the game, and they never bought an entire massive third-party parent company, they primarily bought smaller studios that were already focusing on making Playstation games anyway and built them into epic game developers. Microsoft just has enough money to buy everything to try and muscle the industry the way they want, and there will no longer be third party developers, or very, VERY few. Yeah, that's REAL good for the games industry, think bigger and stop being so arrogant.
    [Deleted User]
  • DreycraftDreycraft Member UncommonPosts: 107
    Dreycraft said:
    Finally at least ONE games journalist has the balls to stand up and spit the truth, I have been astounded by the reaction. Most people are acting like bratty 10 year-olds over the aquisition, and if you DARE speak out then you must be a "Sony Pony" and that's just complete nonsense, there are plenty of reasons why this aquisition is just flat out bad for the industry. This aquisition is anti-consumer, period, and does nothing but piss off millions of gamers who were already committed to a console and cannot afford anything else. And it is not the same as PS and Nintendo exclusives, Bethesda was a massive THIRD party developer for many, many years. And of course it just showed that Phil Spencer is a hypocrite, and this move has potentially set a bad precedent going forward, where there will no longer be third party developers, and if you claim that is a good thing, I will call you a liar.
    Who exactly is acting like a bratty 10 yr old again?

    See, so typical, nothing constructive to add to the conversation. People have real issues with this aquisition, and worry about the future of the gaming industry, and it isn't just Sony "fanboys". But people just plug their ears and shut their eyes if anyone questions it.
  • theMetamancertheMetamancer Newbie CommonPosts: 1
    edited September 2020
    Consolidation in the game industry is simply not good for consumers. We need more players, not fewer. Unless Zenimax and Bethesda have been lying all these years (conceivable, of course), they did not need to be acquired in order to survive. We all lose when the big players swallow up the smaller ones. This is how we get EA or Activision.
    Some of the comments are hypocritical. On one hand they say that Microsoft needed to buy “exclusives” to compete with Sony, but in almost the same breath repeat the same assurances from Beth and M$ talking heads that they will make their games available to all platforms, that Elder Scrolls and Starfield and the like will not be exclusives. Can anyone trust what Microsoft says on anything? I can tell you this, a company like Microsoft does NOT spend 7.5 BILLION dollars on an acquisition if they don’t expect something specific out of it. OF COURSE they’re going to make their most in demand games exclusive to their own platform, _especially_ if they begin to fear that Sony might be pulling ahead in the fifth or later generation.
    Asm0deus
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,925
     Unless Zenimax and Bethesda have been lying all these years (conceivable, of course), they did not need to be acquired in order to survive. 
    The problem with this thinking is that it really doesn't acknowledge how large businesses work.

    And again, this is the problem of players "gamers" who think that game developers are solely there for "them."

    I'm sure small indy companies are!

    But as they get larger and allow for investors they have to make money for investors. 

    That's the deal. They can't just sit there and say "good enough." 

    So, if Microsoft approached Zenimax and said "we want to buy you and we'll make your shareholders a lot of money" and Zenimax said no, they would have to have a good enough reason for their shareholders as to why they didn't allow the sale.

    Large companies or companies that sell shares (zenimax had shares but privately owned) are there to make money for their investors. Hopefully they do it by supplying great products and services but that's what they are about.

    So no, they didn't need to be bought to survive. They wanted to be bought so they could make money for their investors.
    [Deleted User]
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  • esarphieesarphie Member UncommonPosts: 76
    I’m confused, seems like a push back on Sony for acting this way for years. As proposed, Microsoft titles will guaranteed be available on XBox, pc, and many on Android devices. That seems like a wide platform variety to me. For years, Sony has made a policy of locking up exclusives of any stripe, from developers to series, and even individual characters (I’m looking at you, Spider-Man!). I fail to see how competitive push-back is anti-consumer.... unless you think consumer and PlayStation fanboy are synonymous terms.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 30,925
    edited September 2020
    remsleep said:


    Yeah lets all just roll over and take it up the rear.

    As long as people take your stand - nothing will change and status quo will remain.

    But its only a matter of time before the current business systems fails - because it cannot be sustained indefinitely. 

    This whole system that's based on infinite profit growth and shareholders expecting constant profits is so obviously broken.

    Where is this infinite money coming from?

    It is a ridiculous system as infinite growth is ridiculous.

    But players ranting on forums is not going to stop or change anything. YOu want to change things? get into the game yourself. 

    I strongly suspect it takes more than one person to do so. hmmm look at the orignal Bioware owners, they were private right and thehn they sold their company.

    I wonder how many people who try their hand at creating a studio would, in the end, sell it to the highest bidder and retire well.

    But I guarantee you, ranting on small game forums does nothing except hopefully make you feel better. for a minute.
    [Deleted User]xpsync
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  • jonp200jonp200 Member UncommonPosts: 457
    I don't agree. Bethesda has been in need of direction and finances for a long time and many of their consumer-unfriendly decisions have been driven by that. Microsoft offers nearly limitless resources and a platform (Gamepass) that will allow for more people to experience Bethesda's games; many of which have not seen the sales numbers one might expect given the fanbase.

    Zenimax has been "shopping" their company for quite some time and I can't think of a better outcome. Look at the InExile purchase and what that has done for them. I see a bright future.

    Many game companies live hand to mouth. That's no longer an issue for Bethesda and hopefully they can focus on producing some great games again.
    [Deleted User]

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  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    edited September 2020
    Me and my friends had a heated debate on this just this weekend. They're die hard playstation users when it comes to consoles (still own pcs to gaming), and they don't like this purchase as it might someday lead to exclusive games to xbox/pc.

    I laughed at their faces. So when sony does it is fine?
    [Deleted User]

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,753
    Bloodaxes said:
    Me and my friends had a heated debate on this just this weekend. They're die hard playstation users when it comes to consoles (still own pcs to gaming), and they don't like this purchase as it might someday lead to exclusive games to xbox/pc.

    I laughed at their faces. So when sony does it is fine?
    Sony has a nice ride with this for a long time. Where titles sold more units then services and what tech was in their consoles. Will be interesting to see how this plays out and how MS deals with this. Does MS more more exclusives games like XBox fans have been asking for? Does MS leverage Sony to bring more titles to Xbox? 
    [Deleted User]Catibrie
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