I'n not banging on how other people spend their money. That is 100% their decision.
And if someone wants to finance and build a game by crowd funding, so long as they are acting in good faith, that's fine too.
Just speaking for myself, I will wait for release before I spend.
Normally, I agree wholeheartedly. But how these gamers are spending their money is now affecting me and my enjoyment of games. Businesses will keep up shoddy practices and products as long as they make money.
Right now, there is zero incentive for them to make good, quality games
You can say the same thing about the music and movie industries also..>They just regurgitate the same garbage over and over and people buy it.
Well I cancelled Netflix and they lost something like 9 billion over "Cuties" . I also won't be going to see any of the woke crap that is planned for the M-She-U. Not supporting Disney anymore either after what they did to Star Wars.
Get Woke Go Broke might have a ring of truth to it.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
From what I've seen, I agree.
I think "a great percentage of gamers" are quite happy with the state of the industry. This includes Facebook gamers, mobile "candy Crush" gamers, and gamers who gobble up every title released.
Hence the term "sheeple" comes about.
They continue to consume without regard, blinded by their conditioning into paying little attention even while being shit on by corporations and governments.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
From what I've seen, I agree.
I think "a great percentage of gamers" are quite happy with the state of the industry. This includes Facebook gamers, mobile "candy Crush" gamers, and gamers who gobble up every title released.
Hence the term "sheeple" comes about.
They continue to consume without regard, blinded by their conditioning into paying little attention even while being shit on by corporations and governments.
We are East!
Or they are normal and the rest is a bunch of anal whiners. Just a matter of perspective
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Problem with crowd funding is they make more money selling hopes and dreams than they would releasing an actual product.
Shroud of the Avatar is a great example.
Their income plummeted once it was released to the masses and peeps started trashing it, it made unheard-of amounts of money while it was being created, the dream was still alive in beta/alpha, all problems still retained hope they would all be solved.
Star Citizen, from never reading anyone defend that it's not buggy or has performance issues, if it were to release, it too will suffer the same fate as SotA. Simple solution, continue to sell the dream.
Chronicles of Elyria is another pinnacle of how dreams sell more than an actual game, there was no game and 8 million seemed decent enough, why bother making a game, set for life, peace out all. The only lesson here to all kick starters is to perpetually be in development and enjoy the money. Tweet out "still working on it" while sipping coolers on some island paradise.
Pantheon, Unchained, made amazing volumes of cash on the dream, releasing a finished product is risky af with such prevalent hate on the internet, especially when no game will ever live up to the dreams people have conjured up in their heads.
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
From what I've seen, I agree.
I think "a great percentage of gamers" are quite happy with the state of the industry. This includes Facebook gamers, mobile "candy Crush" gamers, and gamers who gobble up every title released.
Hence the term "sheeple" comes about.
They continue to consume without regard, blinded by their conditioning into paying little attention even while being shit on by corporations and governments.
We are East!
Still got that Fallout 76 membership?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Depends what you mean by "gamer", when EA's former CEO announced several years ago that their games would be playable "by your mum" I began to wonder who among us could still call ourselves gamers? Just as we saw the whole idea of what a MMORPG is change since they began, the idea of what a video game is has radically changed.
We are now in the same category as players of Angry Birds, are we still gamers?
Rather depends where the need or greed gets its money from.
...no, it doesn't. A payment model is just a part of the whole package - a product customer either buys or not.
You are just using bunch of arbitrary qualifiers so you can apply negative connotation to business decisions you disagree with.
Same thing I mentioned recently about P2W term being a nonsense.
You always agree with the "business decisions" so that's hardly surprising. I would point out that calling them 'business decisions' is in itself an "arbitrary qualifier" as it suggests neutral impact on the game.
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Depends what you mean by "gamer", when EA's former CEO announced several years ago that their games would be playable "by your mum" I began to wonder who among us could still call ourselves gamers? Just as we saw the whole idea of what a MMORPG is change since they began, the idea of what a video game is has radically changed.
We are now in the same category as players of Angry Birds, are we still gamers?
Everybody who plays video games can be considered a gamer. Their matter of importance is measured by the amount of money spent on said games.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Depends what you mean by "gamer", when EA's former CEO announced several years ago that their games would be playable "by your mum" I began to wonder who among us could still call ourselves gamers? Just as we saw the whole idea of what a MMORPG is change since they began, the idea of what a video game is has radically changed.
We are now in the same category as players of Angry Birds, are we still gamers?
Everybody who plays video games can be considered a gamer. Their matter of importance is measured by the amount of money spent on said games.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Do those who spend more have more input into what constituents what we call a "video game"? I think not, even in games that allow whales (soon all of them no doubt) they are just bigger consumers. You are starting to sound like the Man Who Sold The World you know. And when I use that phrase with reference to MMORPG's quite literally.
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Depends what you mean by "gamer", when EA's former CEO announced several years ago that their games would be playable "by your mum" I began to wonder who among us could still call ourselves gamers? Just as we saw the whole idea of what a MMORPG is change since they began, the idea of what a video game is has radically changed.
We are now in the same category as players of Angry Birds, are we still gamers?
Everybody who plays video games can be considered a gamer. Their matter of importance is measured by the amount of money spent on said games.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Do those who spend more have more input into what constituents what we call a "video game"? I think not, even in games that allow whales (soon all of them no doubt) they are just bigger consumers. You are starting to sound like the Man Who Sold The World you know. And when I use that phrase with reference to MMORPG's quite literally.
Don’t you go quoting Bowie on me!
And yes, they do have more say into what shape and direction games go. Its called the gaming industry, not the gaming hobby club, so companies will simply follow the money. The biggest consumers win, by amount spent or by numbers of customers, and in extension of that, the amount spent.
Do I think that is great? No, the masses are dumb. But not spending is like not voting, of no importance or influence at all. So within my circle of influence I spend how I see fit, and generous.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Depends what you mean by "gamer", when EA's former CEO announced several years ago that their games would be playable "by your mum" I began to wonder who among us could still call ourselves gamers? Just as we saw the whole idea of what a MMORPG is change since they began, the idea of what a video game is has radically changed.
We are now in the same category as players of Angry Birds, are we still gamers?
Everybody who plays video games can be considered a gamer. Their matter of importance is measured by the amount of money spent on said games.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Do those who spend more have more input into what constituents what we call a "video game"? I think not, even in games that allow whales (soon all of them no doubt) they are just bigger consumers. You are starting to sound like the Man Who Sold The World you know. And when I use that phrase with reference to MMORPG's quite literally.
Don’t you go quoting Bowie on me!
And yes, they do have more say into what shape and direction games go. Its called the gaming industry, not the gaming hobby club, so companies will simply follow the money. The biggest consumers win, by amount spent or by numbers of customers, and in extension of that, the amount spent.
Do I think that is great? No, the masses are dumb. But not spending is like not voting, of no importance or influence at all. So within my circle of influence I spend how I see fit, and generous.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I understand that their consumption preferences are more noted, but they eat what they are given. There is a world of difference between someone who spends more in Fortnite and someone who funds a KS game and puts their input in. Even there though how much notice it taken of what a player says? Lets be honest, how much can we expect the day to day design of a game to feature the whims of players, big spenders or not? The only thing you can really expect is that player preferences are noted at the start of design.
Also does following the money lead to the best design for anything other than generating more money? To my mind it hampers best game design, putting pound signs before quality and solid gameplay.
As a great man once sort of said, 'I don't know where we are going with this thread but I promise it won't be boring'.
I most definitely and unashamedly put my money where my mouth is, and then some. Money makes the world go round and nothing comes for free. Gaming is a dirt cheap hobby and I gladly support that which I love. It is definitely better than endless whining with nothing to play for it. Also, adapt. Just because many “gamers” stagnated early 2000s doesn’t mean the industry did. If it doesn’t fit you anymore watch Frozen a couple of times, ‘Let it go, let it goooooo.’
Just my 2 cents, I have never been happier gaming then I am right now.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
I've stopped buying hard copies of games years ago, since I don't play on old consoles when they're replaced with new ones, and since PC's have services like Steam, that keeps it organized for me. I have a large bin full of hard copies of games and consoles that I'm tempted to throw away, because I never play them. I just end up buying the remastered version when the mood strikes me.
I agree that overall, the industry has gotten better at making games. I think the reason why people think otherwise is because they have to wade through more garbage/cash grab games to get to the good ones, or they have to wait a lot longer for games to release than you had to. More of the older games had interesting and thought provoking game play and character building systems, but story presentation wasn't always the greatest. These days with cinematic's and voice overs, story presentation is great, but gameplay is less common. Things basically flip flopped. But when you have games release with both, it's really amazing and shows the advancement of our hobbies.
I do think MMORPG's have been mostly disappointing though. I've been a MMORPG gamer and a member of this site since 2004, when I was ready to try a new MMORPG after playing DAOC for years. I found SWG, played that, and before I knew it this site helped fuel my MMORPG addiction by cleanly laying out which MMORPG's existed that I'd of otherwise never of known they did.
I've played most MMORPG's to hit the United States. MMORPG's took more risks back in the early 2000's with game design ideas and the communities were tighter and friendlier back then. It made the experience fun to sink hours a day into. Games now, just like their SPG counterparts, tell a better story and are more polished, but the game systems are more stale, overused, and lacking in innovation. The community that I played with are either gone, changed, or I just can't find them anymore. I see mostly trolls, rude people, and people who are toxic to one another. We went from invite the first handful of people that want to group, to the group, and then we grind mobs for 8 hours to what we have now. Now you have addons that people use to bar people from joining groups and encounters that encourage that by being so tightly tuned, and content that's designed to be ran through, not crawled through.
We can "adapt" as you said in your post. I have adapted. I never touched a themepark MMORPG until 2008 when WoTLK came out and I had to know what happened to Arthas and what it'd be like to play as a Death Knight. But for 7 years before that I was playing the first and second generation of MMORPG's. But developers quit making old style MMORPG's and started making MMORPG's that were solo quest grinds with instance-based group content. I learned to enjoy the tailored experience of instanced dungeons and the challenge more advanced mechanics bring to the table; convenience features, like auto-grouping and auction houses; and many more things that has helped players spend less time wasting in the game, and more engaging in gameplay.
But I miss the immersion, the closeness of communities, and the innovative ways to develop your characters that older MMORPG's used to have. As Wizardly, a forum poster on this site has pointed out: with how open and vast the worlds started in the dawn of this genre, MMORPG's should of evolved to be virtual worlds to live in. Instead, we have less freedom, more guided stories, and more linearity in character building/advancement.
This is my first real post in over 10 years probably, as I'm more of a lurker, but another thread spoke about a decrease in people posting, so I felt obliged to chip in a little.
Companies are making it harder to "vote with our wallets" these days. With the push for lump subscriptions (Gamepass, EA Access, Play Station Now, Staadia...), the individual game is now buried.
We have F2P MMOs where votes are silenced because players will play anything for free, even utter crap.
Face it, we gamers as a group have zero power.
I also firmly believe that 90% of all gamers are perfectly content with the status quo. This idea that gamers are this mistreated, conned, miserable bunch is based on a vocal minority. The growth of the industry, sales, money spent etc. prove this.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
From what I've seen, I agree.
I think "a great percentage of gamers" are quite happy with the state of the industry. This includes Facebook gamers, mobile "candy Crush" gamers, and gamers who gobble up every title released.
Hence the term "sheeple" comes about.
They continue to consume without regard, blinded by their conditioning into paying little attention even while being shit on by corporations and governments.
We are East!
Or they are normal and the rest is a bunch of anal whiners. Just a matter of perspective
/Cheers, Lahnmir
"Anal Whiners" aka old farts
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I will use a game that sort of miffed me right from day 1....Wizard 101. A game that caters to kids but of course KI cannot say that ever because of it's monetization and you cannot TARGET underage kids,it is illegal.
They "Kings Isle" claim their game is FREE to play,you can't see even 2% of the game for free,so how free is that?To me it is a BLATANT LIE,fraud. Do I EXPECT free gaming ,of course not but I also do EXPECT honesty and even the cash shop idea is a dishonest form of monetization with no cap on spending. Some games do have a cap because really a cash shop could exploit an addicted gamer and we HAVE for fact seen a few lawsuits going after addictive measures designed by developers. So happens right now a Montreal law firm is suing Epic games over creating addictions to underage kids.Well of course you always have to utilize/exploit the CHILD for your law suit,it just carries more weight that way.
The gaming market became TOO BIG,too much competition,too much risk,too much to lose,that is why we have witnessed such drastic changes on how gaming operates.So i see the real picture and it is never going to return to a more fair state unless we hit a massive recession that kills off 95+% of the studios.
People, and parents, need to take ownership over their own actions. Game design encouraging the use of RNG crates isn't something I care for, but I know some people that enjoy it. Two people I know have spent anywhere from hundreds to thousands of dollars on mobile games with RNG crates bought from cash shops. It's their money and they can choose how to spend it. But blaming a company for a players actions is showing a lack of ownership over a persons own actions. I don't expect industries and the goverment to step in and limit what an industry can offer. That's a slippery slope I've had enough of over the decades of more and more control exerted by our goverment and other entities trying to make choices on my behalf to protect me, when I can do that myself.
I will use a game that sort of miffed me right from day 1....Wizard 101. A game that caters to kids but of course KI cannot say that ever because of it's monetization and you cannot TARGET underage kids,it is illegal.
They "Kings Isle" claim their game is FREE to play,you can't see even 2% of the game for free,so how free is that?To me it is a BLATANT LIE,fraud. Do I EXPECT free gaming ,of course not but I also do EXPECT honesty and even the cash shop idea is a dishonest form of monetization with no cap on spending. Some games do have a cap because really a cash shop could exploit an addicted gamer and we HAVE for fact seen a few lawsuits going after addictive measures designed by developers. So happens right now a Montreal law firm is suing Epic games over creating addictions to underage kids.Well of course you always have to utilize/exploit the CHILD for your law suit,it just carries more weight that way.
The gaming market became TOO BIG,too much competition,too much risk,too much to lose,that is why we have witnessed such drastic changes on how gaming operates.So i see the real picture and it is never going to return to a more fair state unless we hit a massive recession that kills off 95+% of the studios.
People, and parents, need to take ownership over their own actions. Game design encouraging the use of RNG crates isn't something I care for, but I know some people that enjoy it. Two people I know have spent anywhere from hundreds to thousands of dollars on mobile games with RNG crates bought from cash shops. It's their money and they can choose how to spend it. But blaming a company for a players actions is showing a lack of ownership over a persons own actions. I don't expect industries and the goverment to step in and limit what an industry can offer. That's a slippery slope I've had enough of over the decades of more and more control exerted by our goverment and other entities trying to make choices on my behalf to protect me, when I can do that myself.
I think it can be a shared responsibility between predatory monetization and irresponsible users throwing money around willy nilly.
For example regulation could prohibit the use of double-rng tactics with digital blind box sales (loot crates). What I mean is a company might advertise that you will get a guaranteed rare in a package, or after so many crate purchases. What they don't tell you is that the purchases then "rolls" for the desired chase item on a list of "rares". So you are guaranteed to get a 'purple' tier item, but you will likely get the same purple tier as everyone else and the most desired purple tier chase item will still only drop 3% of the time. So not only do you have to roll to get a chance at the purple tier, you then have to roll to get a decent purple tier item. If that sounds convoluted, it's because it is and to the disadvantage of the consumer.
A better way to implement regulation would be to prohibit convoluted practices like this. Another way would be for companies to disclose loot chances and actual rewards payouts so consumers can know what they're buying. Take lottery tickets for example. They are required to disclose odds of winning before purchase. It doesn't stop people from throwing money at the lottery but it at least provides an information opportunity. If people want to ignore that then they can reap the consequences.
Unfortunately, regulations only work for people who care. The "irresponsible gamblers" don't care. They can see the odds, they can logic why not to spend money... They just don't care. They want that "rush of chance."
I dislike slippery slopes lined with good intentions. They ALWAYS come back to bite our asses
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
The only thing not spending money will teach these companies is that you are not their target demographic.
Want to be heard? Invest in the companies that are trying to do what you want done.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Comments
Get Woke Go Broke might have a ring of truth to it.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/They continue to consume without regard, blinded by their conditioning into paying little attention even while being shit on by corporations and governments.
We are East!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/You are just using bunch of arbitrary qualifiers so you can apply negative connotation to business decisions you disagree with.
Same thing I mentioned recently about P2W term being a nonsense.
We are now in the same category as players of Angry Birds, are we still gamers?
You always agree with the "business decisions" so that's hardly surprising. I would point out that calling them 'business decisions' is in itself an "arbitrary qualifier" as it suggests neutral impact on the game.
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You are just once again using arbitrary qualifiers where the factual evidence is inconvenient to you.
And yes, they do have more say into what shape and direction games go. Its called the gaming industry, not the gaming hobby club, so companies will simply follow the money. The biggest consumers win, by amount spent or by numbers of customers, and in extension of that, the amount spent.
Do I think that is great? No, the masses are dumb. But not spending is like not voting, of no importance or influence at all. So within my circle of influence I spend how I see fit, and generous.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Also does following the money lead to the best design for anything other than generating more money? To my mind it hampers best game design, putting pound signs before quality and solid gameplay.
As a great man once sort of said, 'I don't know where we are going with this thread but I promise it won't be boring'.
I've stopped buying hard copies of games years ago, since I don't play on old consoles when they're replaced with new ones, and since PC's have services like Steam, that keeps it organized for me. I have a large bin full of hard copies of games and consoles that I'm tempted to throw away, because I never play them. I just end up buying the remastered version when the mood strikes me.
I agree that overall, the industry has gotten better at making games. I think the reason why people think otherwise is because they have to wade through more garbage/cash grab games to get to the good ones, or they have to wait a lot longer for games to release than you had to. More of the older games had interesting and thought provoking game play and character building systems, but story presentation wasn't always the greatest. These days with cinematic's and voice overs, story presentation is great, but gameplay is less common. Things basically flip flopped. But when you have games release with both, it's really amazing and shows the advancement of our hobbies.
I do think MMORPG's have been mostly disappointing though. I've been a MMORPG gamer and a member of this site since 2004, when I was ready to try a new MMORPG after playing DAOC for years. I found SWG, played that, and before I knew it this site helped fuel my MMORPG addiction by cleanly laying out which MMORPG's existed that I'd of otherwise never of known they did.
I've played most MMORPG's to hit the United States. MMORPG's took more risks back in the early 2000's with game design ideas and the communities were tighter and friendlier back then. It made the experience fun to sink hours a day into. Games now, just like their SPG counterparts, tell a better story and are more polished, but the game systems are more stale, overused, and lacking in innovation. The community that I played with are either gone, changed, or I just can't find them anymore. I see mostly trolls, rude people, and people who are toxic to one another. We went from invite the first handful of people that want to group, to the group, and then we grind mobs for 8 hours to what we have now. Now you have addons that people use to bar people from joining groups and encounters that encourage that by being so tightly tuned, and content that's designed to be ran through, not crawled through.
We can "adapt" as you said in your post. I have adapted. I never touched a themepark MMORPG until 2008 when WoTLK came out and I had to know what happened to Arthas and what it'd be like to play as a Death Knight. But for 7 years before that I was playing the first and second generation of MMORPG's. But developers quit making old style MMORPG's and started making MMORPG's that were solo quest grinds with instance-based group content. I learned to enjoy the tailored experience of instanced dungeons and the challenge more advanced mechanics bring to the table; convenience features, like auto-grouping and auction houses; and many more things that has helped players spend less time wasting in the game, and more engaging in gameplay.
But I miss the immersion, the closeness of communities, and the innovative ways to develop your characters that older MMORPG's used to have. As Wizardly, a forum poster on this site has pointed out: with how open and vast the worlds started in the dawn of this genre, MMORPG's should of evolved to be virtual worlds to live in. Instead, we have less freedom, more guided stories, and more linearity in character building/advancement.
This is my first real post in over 10 years probably, as I'm more of a lurker, but another thread spoke about a decrease in people posting, so I felt obliged to chip in a little.
"Anal Whiners" aka old farts
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
People, and parents, need to take ownership over their own actions. Game design encouraging the use of RNG crates isn't something I care for, but I know some people that enjoy it. Two people I know have spent anywhere from hundreds to thousands of dollars on mobile games with RNG crates bought from cash shops. It's their money and they can choose how to spend it. But blaming a company for a players actions is showing a lack of ownership over a persons own actions. I don't expect industries and the goverment to step in and limit what an industry can offer. That's a slippery slope I've had enough of over the decades of more and more control exerted by our goverment and other entities trying to make choices on my behalf to protect me, when I can do that myself.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
A Closed Wallet Casts No Votes.
The only thing not spending money will teach these companies is that you are not their target demographic.
Want to be heard? Invest in the companies that are trying to do what you want done.