Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

So is New World a real MMORPG?

2»

Comments

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759
    Well first thing to ask yourself is do you like pvp and are you going to participate in it ? If the answer is no, then New World (as any other pvp mmo) is already only half the game or less - Because that is where half the focus of the developers goes for pvp mmos. So as with all pvp mmos, if you are a pve player, is playing as a "lesser citicen" with the systems and content there are for pve play, enjoyable enough for you ? For some it will be fine, for others it will not be.

    New World started out as a pvp mmo, then it had an identity crysis flirting with pve systems (and had a bunch of pve players all excited), but then going back to its pvp roots after a shitstorm from the pvp community.
    From the combat in particular (which I would describe as shallow action fombat, aka zerg combat with minimal tactics and roles..others love this type of combat), the game would be best suited as a pvp game, so I assume that is the direction it will go.

    But it is a mmo, like mmos are today.
    A role playing game, as in a playing a role ? Not very much in combat, but maybe as a crafter (time will tell).
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    kjempff said:
    Well first thing to ask yourself is do you like pvp and are you going to participate in it ? If the answer is no, then New World (as any other pvp mmo) is already only half the game or less - Because that is where half the focus of the developers goes for pvp mmos. So as with all pvp mmos, if you are a pve player, is playing as a "lesser citicen" with the systems and content there are for pve play, enjoyable enough for you ? For some it will be fine, for others it will not be.

    New World started out as a pvp mmo, then it had an identity crysis flirting with pve systems (and had a bunch of pve players all excited), but then going back to its pvp roots after a shitstorm from the pvp community.
    From the combat in particular (which I would describe as shallow action fombat, aka zerg combat with minimal tactics and roles..others love this type of combat), the game would be best suited as a pvp game, so I assume that is the direction it will go.

    But it is a mmo, like mmos are today.
    A role playing game, as in a playing a role ? Not very much in combat, but maybe as a crafter (time will tell).
    Please do not call NW a PvP mmorpg. There has been no change from there reversal of course which made it a PvE game. 

    PvP is completely avoidable and less than 1% of your time can be played doing it.
    [Deleted User]Dibdabs[Deleted User]
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    bcbully said:
    kjempff said:
    Well first thing to ask yourself is do you like pvp and are you going to participate in it ? If the answer is no, then New World (as any other pvp mmo) is already only half the game or less - Because that is where half the focus of the developers goes for pvp mmos. So as with all pvp mmos, if you are a pve player, is playing as a "lesser citicen" with the systems and content there are for pve play, enjoyable enough for you ? For some it will be fine, for others it will not be.

    New World started out as a pvp mmo, then it had an identity crysis flirting with pve systems (and had a bunch of pve players all excited), but then going back to its pvp roots after a shitstorm from the pvp community.
    From the combat in particular (which I would describe as shallow action fombat, aka zerg combat with minimal tactics and roles..others love this type of combat), the game would be best suited as a pvp game, so I assume that is the direction it will go.

    But it is a mmo, like mmos are today.
    A role playing game, as in a playing a role ? Not very much in combat, but maybe as a crafter (time will tell).
    Please do not call NW a PvP mmorpg. There has been no change from there reversal of course which made it a PvE game. 

    PvP is completely avoidable and less than 1% of your time can be played doing it.
    Yeah it was very telling during the 2-week preview that even those flagged for PvP were only doing it to get the faster advancement that the PvP-flagged missions gave you and for the most part avoided fighting others unless someone accidentally hit someone else in crowded PvE spots lol.


    bcbully
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 3,203
    bcbully said:
    PvP is completely avoidable and less than 1% of your time can be played doing it.
    Pretty much the same in Eve Online.  You don't need to PvP at all as long as you are content to play in high sec systems.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Dibdabs said:
    bcbully said:
    PvP is completely avoidable and less than 1% of your time can be played doing it.
    Pretty much the same in Eve Online.  You don't need to PvP at all as long as you are content to play in high sec systems.
     You just compared NW pvp to EVE?

    EVE the very definition of MEANINGFUL PvP?

    Please enlighten this experienced group of mmorpg players on what we have not seen or understood.
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • olepiolepi Member EpicPosts: 2,814
    MMORPG's used to be based on RPG games, where you took on a specific role and build to see how it played in the world. You could be a wizard, fighter, druid, healer, minstrel, etc. Each one had radically different abilities and none of them could do everything.

    In DAOC, for example, it takes an entire team to cover all the skills necessary. One player can mezz, one can fight, one can cast spells, one can heal, etc. None of them can do all of those very well. And in PvP, each side has different character types.

    Nowadays, though, MMORPG's have been dumbed down to the point that every character can do everything. In ESO, for example, there are only 4 classes, and each one can do almost everything the others can. So there is little differentiation. And each side has the exact same character types.

    As for PvP, forced PvP has never been a successful market. PvP only really works if it is optional, and there is a reason for it. Put the most valuable mats in a PvP zone, for example. Open world PvP ends up with gankers stationed at the respawn points, killing any player over and over who tries to respawn.
    kjempffbcbully

    ------------
    2024: 47 years on the Net.


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    tzervo said:
    Dibdabs said:
    Pretty much the same in Eve Online.  You don't need to PvP at all as long as you are content to play in high sec systems.
    You still get ganked in EVE online even in high sec, just with a lower frequency or if your cargo is super juicy, unless you do not undock at all. From what I understood in New World you cannot even be touched unless you flag up or go to places with the new direction of development.
    Yeah, I remember trying EVE, was extremely low level and was mining and I was killed twice. No idea how. I remember thinking, I'm level 4 or some such thing in the most starter of areas, how am I being killed?

    I'm assuming it must have been some loophole with mining or me getting what I mined or "something."
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    idk about calling Albion Online a successful 'pvp' mmorpg for 2 main reasons: the population didn't see an uptick until it went f2p and 2) there's many areas where you can not engage in pvp at all which gradually change with each zone type (from casual no loot drop on death to full loot). I will concede that their take on pvp was a pretty balanced way to go about things though in the end, it just would've been a much more successful game if it had converted to f2p when it first saw that huge decline instead of waiting months/years to do so.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    remsleep said:
    "You’ll probably be murdered in New World. So, yes, players will be able to freely kill other players"

    Does this really appeal to anyone other than the most demented of people?

    Appeals to guild PvP players a lot.

    Doesn't appeal to solo PvE players which you probably are.

    Just because someone likes a different playstyle it doesn't make them demented.

    Maybe one day we won't be so quick to dismiss others solely based on a different game preference 

    Yes just because someone like open world PvP games, doesn't mean they are going around kicking kittens and setting puppies on fire

    But they do find it fun, which I can't imagine. People who find being evil to other human beings, even in a "make believe" setting, are not good people I want to hang out with.
    GdemamibcbullyCatibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    remsleep said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    remsleep said:
    "You’ll probably be murdered in New World. So, yes, players will be able to freely kill other players"

    Does this really appeal to anyone other than the most demented of people?

    Appeals to guild PvP players a lot.

    Doesn't appeal to solo PvE players which you probably are.

    Just because someone likes a different playstyle it doesn't make them demented.

    Maybe one day we won't be so quick to dismiss others solely based on a different game preference 

    Yes just because someone like open world PvP games, doesn't mean they are going around kicking kittens and setting puppies on fire

    But they do find it fun, which I can't imagine. People who find being evil to other human beings, even in a "make believe" setting, are not good people I want to hang out with.

    That is totally fine if you choose to do that.

    But make no mistake - the correlation between video games and RL is nowhere near direct as you would think.

    Human personalities are pretty complex and what makes people good IRL vs what makes them good in games are very different settings with very different motives and very different consequences 



    I know many people say the same thing. My point is this: They find it FUN. Even in an imaginary setting, they are having FUN being evil.

    I tried it in SW; KotOR 1 once. In order to see what the "evil" game end jedi robes were like, I had Zalbar kill Mission on the last planet. Immediately after doing so, I shut the game down and deleted that save file. I could not play it again for a week or so, I felt so terrible. I never found out what the "evil robes" were like until many years later when info on the Internet exploded.

    That is my point. Some people ENJOY being evil.
    GdemamibcbullyCatibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    AlBQuirky said:
    I know many people say the same thing. My point is this: They find it FUN. Even in an imaginary setting, they are having FUN being evil.

    The problem with your toothless argument is:

    1) you failed to provide any evidence that what they do is evil
    2) you failed to provide any evidence that they are having fun being evil
    3) you failed to provide any evidence that there is any relevant amount of such players to even matter
    [Deleted User]bcbullyChildoftheShadows
  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,360
    I really enjoyed the last test! I thought it was great!

    Yes it still needs some more work, but what they've got so far is fun!
    YashaXAlBQuirky
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,030
    No it's a survival game.  The gameplay loop is 100% survival, no matter how they try to pivot.
    GdemamibotrytisYashaX
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    edited September 2020
    ^^^Annnnnnnd this why I hate lying, sneaky, manipulative PvE guy. He feels he will have no repercussions to his actions.



    YashaX
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,739
    I think what bothers me most is "murdered".....Killing someone in a war is one thing, murdering someone is quite another, and when the murder is committed over and over then that is what leads us to think something is wrong with that person.
    GdemamiYashaXAlBQuirky
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited September 2020
    Someone who takes enjoyment in totally ruining another player's game time in a MMORPG has something wrong in his head.
    ...so you either:

    1) have no idea what you talk about and just make up dumb crap assumption because you don't play PVP games(MMORPGs)

    2) you do play PVP games(MMOROGs) despite it ruins your game time but then there is something wrong in your head because it is self-inflicted by joining a game that is apparently not for you
    bcbullyChildoftheShadows
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    Gdemami said:
    Someone who takes enjoyment in totally ruining another player's game time in a MMORPG has something wrong in his head.
    ...so you either:

    1) have no idea what you talk about and just make up dumb crap assumption because you don't play PVP games(MMORPGs)

    2) you do play PVP games(MMOROGs) despite it ruins your game time but then there is something wrong in your head because it is self-inflicted by joining a game that is apparently not for you
    “ Do not bleat at me, little sheep, for this path you chose of your own free will. You knew the wolves lurked here, you simply chose to ignore them. Well I didn't ignore you, regardless of the cloak of illusion you cast about yourself as you seek your place in this world.





    - A Shriner, written for ArcticMUD circa 1992”
    [Deleted User]botrytis
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    WTF is up with all the typecasting and generalizations about PvErs and PvPers and the people who get bent out of shape when another player kills them instead of being killed by mob AI?

    Anyone who plays MMOs knows that there are good people and assholes playing PvP or PvE (and sorry but I do think that this is mostly reflective of their RL personalities.) The toxicity of toxic players doesn't need any kind of specific game mode to manifest itself. It doesn't even need a game mode: global chat is enough for trolls and weirdos to annoy their captive audience deliberately or not.

    I'm a PvXer and I've said many times that in ESO it's far more likely to see toxicity in PvE PUGs than in Cyrodiil PvP campaigns: queue jumpers queuing as tanks or healers when they're not forcing the rest of the group to deal with the group imbalance, the guys who run ahead to the next boss without bothering to kill trash along the way leaving the rest of the group to deal with the aggro, etc.

    But saying that all PvErs are selfish asshats based on that makes about as much sense as typecasting PvPers based on your run in with the one guy who stalked you and killed you repeatedly 10 years ago.

    "Red is dead" is the PvP default. This is true in OWPvP, flag PvP, scenarios or persistent PvP zones in otherwise PvE games. When someone gives you a pass, that's the unusual behavior and it might be because they wanted to be extra nice to you but more likely because they were busy doing something else and just didn't want to bother with you - the same way you avoid mobs in PvE sometimes because you're busy going somewhere.

    Yes, you will die much more often in PvP than in the typical modern PvE where deaths per week can be counted on one hand. Maybe that's the problem and PvE mobs need to get buffed to the point where PvErs get traumatized there too and start thinking of them as toxic psychopaths :)
    [Deleted User]YashaXbcbully[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387
    NW is more a mmoRPG than many theme parks that came these last 10 years.
    lol and you base that on what exactly?

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    tzervo said:
    PVE players that characterize PVPers as evil, psychopaths, etc. start with the wrong premise:

    - I do not like to be attacked and killed.
    - Therefore anyone attacking me is evil because they want to make me feel miserable.
    - Therefore everyone playing PVP games is evil because they want to make others feel miserable.

    Whereas the correct premise is:

    - I play a PVP game so I expect (and actually am counting on) players to attack me, or me to attack them.
    - That's what both of us find fun and that's the point of the game. I am not doing another player disservice by attacking them.
    - If I did not want other players to attack me I would not have chosen this game. If other players do not want me to attack them they should not play this game.

    It's not "just PvP", though. You have players that murder whole towns (NPCs), "just because they can." PvE has their own share of "evil dickwads", too.

    I knew the "well adjusted adult" comment would pop up. Not from you, tzervo. It sounds pretty sick to me, not "well adjusted" at all if you find being evil to other human beings in any venue "fun", make believe or not. It can be board or card games, organized sports, general "play." If someone is actively seeking to deny other human beings "fun", then they are far from "well adjusted."

    I guess I am guilty, too, trying to deny these "well adjusted humans" their idea of "fun" :lol:
    [Deleted User]Catibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    tzervo said:
    AlBQuirky said:

    It's not "just PvP", though. You have players that murder whole towns (NPCs), "just because they can." PvE has their own share of "evil dickwads", too.
    ...
    If someone is actively seeking to deny other human beings "fun", then they are far from "well adjusted."
    That's my point though :) The point of a PVP game is for people to go and fight against each other and kill each other. The assumption is that players of these games find it fun. There is nothing "evil" or "psychopathic" or "antisocial" to it because it was (or at least should be) their conscious choice. Noone is denying anyone else fun.

    If now a PVEer came to that game and wanted to impose not allowing PK under certain circumstances, he is trying to force his own arbitrary rules to a game that already has a well-defined and advertised ruleset. The PVEer is the offender that tries to deny the "fun", not the other way around.

    And obviously a part of the  PVP game's playerbase is antisocial and griefs. That is, like you say, not exclusive to PVP games. Iselin mentioned some examples above in PVE games.

    But I agree with Jean-Luc_Picard at this one point: PVP games give more tools and toys to griefers :) A cursory search online gives some journal papers which claim that antisocial behaviour is increased in PVP games, but I do not know how solid their research is - I am not qualified to judge them since it is not my field.

    I wanted to expound on my original position, instead of "just agreeing" with your post :)

    I don't think PvP or it's participants are sick or mentally deranged. PvP is simple competition just like any other competitive activity. I'm not good at it and therefor don't find much "fun" with it. If I'm with a group who is far removed from "serious competition", I have a blast doing things to make others laugh, not "win at all costs."

    I'm also not saying that demented people only participate in PvP. They are found everywhere trying to spoil other people's enjoyment, even PvE.

    I just wanted to clarify that as it was bugging me :)
    [Deleted User]Catibrie

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,122
    I think what bothers me most is "murdered".....Killing someone in a war is one thing, murdering someone is quite another, and when the murder is committed over and over then that is what leads us to think something is wrong with that person.

    No, it's the same thing... one person taking the life of another. In war it happens over and over far more than it does outside of it.

    We just like to pretend otherwise, for if we did not it would be very difficult to live with ourselves during and after war.

    That we can collectively maintain a logical disconnect of that extremity suggests there is something wrong with all of us.
Sign In or Register to comment.