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Coding and programing video games ?

Obviously I'm a video gamer, my preference are mmo's. I work in a technical field that involves the use of computers but mostly electronics and mechanics.  Most programming involves proprietary software anyway, so none of us are doing any real programing.  At home on a personal level, I know my way around windows and hardware......That's about the extent of my abilities.  

From my years of gaming I could safely say I could spot poorly coded graphics.  Being technical I can spot what will be a disaster even before a release.  How I can do this, I really can't answer.

This is where I need your help.  I don't understand coding programing or video game engines.  

Most here know I'm Pro Pantheon, I'm totally in love with the vision.  For me this game will make or break my future with mmo's.  But I have my concerns, and I don't think I'm alone.


With using the historical coding from EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard ( yes, old technology ) and the live streaming of Pantheon on Twitch, I can't help but say I'm scared............ This is not a new topic, it's been lightly touched on several times with the argument of Alpha footage and coding and graphics could easily be streamlined as time progresses, some say.  However I can't see this happening !......Then again, with my background, who am I to say.

In closing, I don't give a rats butt about graphics, I'm looking for a smooth game to play. 

Please help  

Comments

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    I'm not sure exactly what you want help with. Is it that you want confirmation that Visionary Realms can successfully code a game like Pantheon to make it challenging and continually interesting?

    I believe they are more than capable of achieving that end. I've never coded a video game, but I can understand how most games operate programmatically, and compared to more complicated code I've written, I'd say its probably rather elementary.

    The real question is the use of interesting dynamics like special circumstances for aggro and variation in the use of mob abilities and strategies. I know they already plan to have different personalities or "dispositions" for specific types of mobs. I believe that could satisfy what you seem to be asking for.

    from https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/pantheon_difference/

    NPC Dispositions and Behaviors

    An area we have not seen much innovation in MMORPGs, almost since their inception, is the area of NPC AI. What if certain enemies had different “dispositions” that had to be discovered by the player? Many NPCs in Pantheon will have advanced behaviors, like the propensity to flee if possible, or to stand and fight to the end. Some NPCs will be inclined to help other NPCs in the area, while some will not. Some will target certain classes within the group that is attacking them. NPC’s movement speeds may vary if they feel they are outmatched. While it is too early to go into a lot of detail, some of the different dispositions we are working on include: the Alarmist, the Bully, the Craven, the Opportunist, the Protector, and the Strategist.

    Also

    Dynamic NPC Encounter Groups

    The world is not static and unchanging – every day is not ‘groundhog’ day. Events occur that can completely change the population of a zone or the population of a group of NPCs within a zone (and the rarer the event, the rarer the rewards -- many exotic items can only be obtained when one of these zone events occur). An example: after you kill some key mobs guarding a hill giant camp, this triggers a zone event that loads up an invading force of Storm Giants who then proceed to attack the Hill Giant camp.




  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,370
    edited October 2016

    With using the historical coding from EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard ( yes, old technology ) and the live streaming of Pantheon on Twitch, I can't help but say I'm scared..

    Are they using historical code? I thought EQ 1, EQ 2 and Vanguard are all owned by Daybreak, and that Visionary Realms wouldn't have any rights to them. And afaik Pantheon is using Unity engine.


    Personally, I don't think programming Pantheon will be that much a problem. Technology has evolved to the point where creating an engine for small-scale PvE battles using tab-targeting combat is unlikely to fail any more unless you run out of money. They aren't exactly pushing any technical boundaries.
     
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,243
    I've stated several times on this forum that I have reservations about Pantheon.  Coding isn't generally one of them.  I do think that the VR team is completely capable of delivering a final product.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,464
    edited October 2016
    These threads get more boring each time I read one, how can anyone use the words 'scared and mmo' in the same sentence. We are talking about a online game not a fucking terrorist attack ffs. 

    The game will be good or it won't, it's as simple as that. If you feel you can do a better job then start a fucking kickstarter and plug your idea of an mmo. 

    Some of you get way to wrap up in your own self worth or opinions. 

    Go away and come back when the game is done, have the free trail then start making threads like these if you are not happy. 

    Right now they are pointless and just repeating what you have already said before. 
    Post edited by SavageHorizon on




  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Vrika said:

    With using the historical coding from EQ1, EQ2, Vanguard ( yes, old technology ) and the live streaming of Pantheon on Twitch, I can't help but say I'm scared..

    Are they using historical code? I thought EQ 1, EQ 2 and Vanguard are all owned by Daybreak, and that Visionary Realms wouldn't have any rights to them. And afaik Pantheon is using Unity engine.
    Personally, I don't think programming Pantheon will be that much a problem. Technology has evolved to the point where creating an engine for small-scale PvE battles using tab-targeting combat is unlikely to fail any more unless you run out of money. They aren't exactly pushing any technical boundaries.
    Yeah, Pantheon will use many of the ideas from those games but not the actual code. Heck, all those 3 games had the code as their weakest point so I don't see any point in re-using it anyways, particularly since Daybreak certainly would charge for that.

    They have licensed a different engine so starting from the beginning probably wont cost anymore anyways, recycling old code from one old engine to a more modern is a lot of work.
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,117
    edited October 2016
    Re-using code is extremely difficult.

    Any half serious developer will create their product from scratch, or license only the foundations, knowing they can comfortably build upon the framework they had licensed.

    If you use external code, chances are you will be slowing yourself down. Best case scenario, you will have regular questions about the code. In a dream world, the original creator of the code will respond to your query in 1-2 days. Still, that slows your team down incredibly.

    A realistic scenario is your developer will spend 6 hours trying to find out what a line of code does, then ends up in a week long e-mail exchange, only to decide they will rewrite the code anyway.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Well the problem with Pantheon is the decision to use the unity engine.  It is the bottom end of the game engine software and they will have to develop a lot of their code on their own.  Graphics will suffer too although I am far more interested in the gameplay than awesome graphics.
  • sn0wblind00sn0wblind00 Member UncommonPosts: 388
    Ozmodan said:
    Well the problem with Pantheon is the decision to use the unity engine.  It is the bottom end of the game engine software and they will have to develop a lot of their code on their own.  Graphics will suffer too although I am far more interested in the gameplay than awesome graphics.
    It is obvious that they are doing this from a risk perspective.  They had trouble raising any serious funds due to lack of prior financial success of recent work from Brad and others.  I believe they got what...1 angel investor? Kickstarter furthers this notion.  Using Unity helps reduce the initial costs (not long-term costs), but they would need to put in a lot of work to make it mmo-friendly.  If you set your expectations too high for this game initially, you may be disappointed. 
    Didn't like typing this as I loved EQ 1, but it is the reality. 
  • RiplyRiply Member UncommonPosts: 3
    Well for one, they most definitely are not using historical code, that would be illegal considering no one on the team owns the rights to that code, not even Brad at this point.

    Watch this and tell me you don't think Unity can handle graphics of a MMORPG?



    I am hopeful for Pantheon because I was a huge fan of EQ1, but I am far from a fan boy of any game. But to say the graphics will suffer because of using Unity is just flat out wrong. Pantheon is not going for an ultra realistic look and feel, I see no reason Unity won't be able to do the job.

    To the original posters question on animations and being concerned based on what he has seen.....it has been said repeatedly that what you have seen is pre alpha placeholders, making judgement based on current animation is pretty rediculous. 

    I have been a Software Engineer for over a decade and have been working with Unity for about two years as a hobby, so I can give at least a little insight into Unity and your question over all.

    To start Unity is great for seasoned developers in other areas of software development. The compiler understands C# and Javascript (Very popular languages in the development world), making it possible for developers to step into the gaming world relatively easily. I don't know for sure, but I have to imagine it was a factor in deciding to go with Unity to build Pantheon (Universal languages, makes it alot easier to find developers)

    Pricing for the Unreal Engine versus Unity isnt really that much different when it come to projects of this scale. Big difference is Unreal gouges the hell out of developers in the end with a percentage of all future sales over Unity, making Unity a much better choice for smaller startups.

    Unity gets alot of crap mainly because in the game engine world, it's the new kid on the block and they have an attitude of anyone should be abe to develop if you have the time and resources. The tools available are not (for the most part) any less or different then what you will find in the Unreal Engine.

    ...back the question of animations. Animations are not for the most part coded anymore, they are created in tools like Maya or 3D Studio max. Animation creation is down to an artist creating articulations of a 3D objext and dragging parts of said objects over a period of time to create a spline. Once they are done, it's exported and imported back into Unity. Rigging these animations is fairly easy and really only involves creating the correct timing with asset movement and transition between animations.

    My point to this is....animations are the very last thing you should be looking at when determining if a "Pre Alpa" game is something your interested. Swapping out animations is honestly somewhat trivial in the grand scheme of it all. Core mechanics is what you need to focus on at this point.
    Kyleran
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Pretty much anything is possible now a days.
    That is why when i see half assed effort,it is by design and not that it takes a very highly skilled team.

    If you want to see a game engine first hand and fly through it,try the Unreal engines,they are free.It will give you a great perspective as to how games are made.
    As to the query,i am quite sure this team "Pantheon" is capable of making a great game,however great means lots of time and money and manpower.
    Then every single team is going to sit down and determine how much money they want to spend and their profit margin.I have seen blatant cost cutting in all games,so seems we are NEVER going to actually get a Triple A game.
    All you can hope for is a great vision by the team,lots of ideas/systems/depth and a game that looks like a living world and not just some generated terrain with a bunch of npc's with yellow question marks over their heads.
    Most developers from day 1 have decided that rather than go for a grand game,they look for a couple gimmicks,sometimes SPAM sells,over sized weapons,flying,mounts,pets.Their game might be totally crap,no thought or Lore or anything coherent but might have some of those gimmicks allowing it to make some profits from a crap game.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,229
    Dang, I wanted to see what happened in that movie..
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    Honestly people who say shit like unity is no good for MMO's are literal morons, who have NO IDEA what the hell they're talking about.

    Unfortunately Unity was used by a good amount of really shitty devs who made really shitty games and gave it a bad rep. The engine itself is actually quite good, it's just like anything, it's what you do with the tools, not the tools themselves.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • ConvoConvo Member UncommonPosts: 160
    edited November 2016
    There is nothing about Unity limiting graphics, the art can be as good as they want it to be but that comes with resources and talent. 
     
    I'm still not sure what the OP was trying to get at?  And no idea where the historical coding comment came from? 
  • ReddSonReddSon Newbie CommonPosts: 2
    edited September 2020
    So, you have a vision, OP? That's good. I wonder if you found a way to monetize it. I know that coding can be damn hard - right now I'm studying to obtain a Cisco certification. I learn new stuff about SQL, Python, C++ and many other languages. The problem is - I still feel that my knowledge is not enough. Not so long ago I've found this cciedump.spoto.net site. They provide help with exams as far as I understand. I guess I will actually take their help. Just in case.

    Post edited by ReddSon on
  • TwoTubesTwoTubes Member UncommonPosts: 328
    Second post ever bumps a thread from 2016...quality.
    KyleranAmathe
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