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Marvel's Avengers Looks...Good?

2

Comments

  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,319

    MikeB said:



    Nanfoodle said:






    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.




    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 






    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.






    Kamala first appeared almost 7 years ago (November 2013) so that does make "been reading comics of that character since I was a kid" a possibly valid statement.

    Feel old yet?

    If not, how about this; there are people who don't remember a world with the World Trade Center and are almost old enough to (legally) drink.
  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,179
    edited August 2020

    Scot said:


    Utinni said:



    Scot said:





    Nanfoodle said:






    MikeB said:







    Nanfoodle said:












    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.








    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 












    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.













    Yup and as always comic retell the same story with retelling that have a new twist. Everything is constantly changing in comics, even their powers. Superman to start could not fly, just leap building in a single bound. We have Green Lantern now as a black guy who likes guys. Venom is now an anti hero. Lex Luthor was a red head monk and now can fight Superman toe to toe and is bald. Ms Marvel is not new to the Marvel Universe as they tell a new story. 







    Back in the day the changes were not made to convey political messages, today that's all these "new twists" seem to be used for.

    Indeed, what occurred in the past could be seen as power progression or in fact power inflation. So I don't think you are comparing like with like here.






    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages.


    Yes, but eventually we got past the second war and I would not say comics after that were any more political than any other form of fiction. What is happening now is a hallmark of the last decade and no doubt this one.



    The X-Men are a parallel to the civil rights movement, Marvel published a series call "The 'Nam" showing the Vietnam war from soldier perspectives, Iron Man had a lot of Cold War influence, etc. Even back in the great depression Superman was fighting corrupt landlords. Comics have always reflected current events. Hell, they killed Captain America in the "Civil War" story line when the US Government started to lose popularity.

    Political messages aside, this game looks amazing and I've got it pre-ordered. I liked what Anthem could have been and might be and this looks like it combines that with Marvel. I'm sold.
    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    edited August 2020
    skeaser said:

    Scot said:


    Utinni said:



    Scot said:





    Nanfoodle said:






    MikeB said:







    Nanfoodle said:












    Looks interesting, inclusion of Kamala Khan (Ms Marvel) in the lineup as a character in initial line up given hardly anyone will know who she is smacks of a patronizing diversity inclusion as she was an "avenger" in a panned series for a few brief months.








    I have been reading comics of that character since I was a kid. She is far from new. 












    Just to clarify: the Ms. Marvel you read was likely Carol Danvers, who is now Captain Marvel. Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan, a different person with different powers.













    Yup and as always comic retell the same story with retelling that have a new twist. Everything is constantly changing in comics, even their powers. Superman to start could not fly, just leap building in a single bound. We have Green Lantern now as a black guy who likes guys. Venom is now an anti hero. Lex Luthor was a red head monk and now can fight Superman toe to toe and is bald. Ms Marvel is not new to the Marvel Universe as they tell a new story. 







    Back in the day the changes were not made to convey political messages, today that's all these "new twists" seem to be used for.

    Indeed, what occurred in the past could be seen as power progression or in fact power inflation. So I don't think you are comparing like with like here.






    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages.


    Yes, but eventually we got past the second war and I would not say comics after that were any more political than any other form of fiction. What is happening now is a hallmark of the last decade and no doubt this one.



    The X-Men are a parallel to the civil rights movement, Marvel published a series call "The 'Nam" showing the Vietnam war from soldier perspectives, Iron Man had a lot of Cold War influence, etc. Even back in the great depression Superman was fighting corrupt landlords. Comics have always reflected current events. Hell, they killed Captain America in the "Civil War" story line when the US Government started to lose popularity.

    Political messages aside, this game looks amazing and I've got it pre-ordered. I liked what Anthem could have been and might be and this looks like it combines that with Marvel. I'm sold.
    I am not saying comics have never been political, just like any other medium they have been. But the baulk of their output was not like The Nam. That's a bit like saying "I found a political novel called The Nam, so all novels are political." Also I think you are reading too much into the idea the Xmen was all about civil rights, indeed I have seen people saying Marvel was all about civil rights. I think there is some wishful thinking here.

    When you look at what the people who made the X-Men comics have said I see historical reconstructionism. Please point this out if you can provide evidence, but up to the eighties (maybe even the nineties?) you don't get the likes of Stan Lee mentioning this. Then when it becomes fashionable to make such statements that's what the X-men was all about. When you compare the films to the comics, there is far more humans against a minority than comics ever did. Indeed it features in every X-Men film.

    I should point out I am quite a fan of Stan Lee, but he would not be the first author or artist to retcon his work to prevailing attitudes. 
    Mendel
  • JockobyteJockobyte Newbie CommonPosts: 3
    edited August 2020
    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages. 

    Yes, but eventually we got past the second war and I would not say comics after that were any more political than any other form of fiction. What is happening now is a hallmark of the last decade and no doubt this one.

    Mate, I started reading Marvel comics back in the late 70s - The Cold War was quite the thing back then, then run through X-men mutants & Inhumans' storylines before, yes, Cap America: Civil War and the freedoms vs law debate, Marvel was the universe with the challenging stories in the sub-text, if you wanted just Good v Bad, there was always DC...
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    Jockobyte said:
    Comics, ESPECIALLY back in the day, were made to convey political messages. 

    Yes, but eventually we got past the second war and I would not say comics after that were any more political than any other form of fiction. What is happening now is a hallmark of the last decade and no doubt this one.

    Mate, I started reading Marvel comics back in the late 70s - The Cold War was quite the thing back then, then run through X-men mutants & Inhumans' storylines before, yes, Cap America: Civil War and the freedoms vs law debate, Marvel was the universe with the challenging stories in the sub-text, if you wanted just Good v Bad, there was always DC...
    Welcome to the forums! :)
    maskedweasel
  • JockobyteJockobyte Newbie CommonPosts: 3
    Welcome to the forums! :)
    "I’m just happy to be here. I just want to give it my best shot, and the good Lord willing, things will work out.” :blush:
    Tuor7
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,820
    edited August 2020
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Nanfoodle
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
    Catibrie
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,820
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
    In regards to games, they're doing an incredible job, so I am completely okay with it.

    This, is actually a dick move. Spiderman is such a huge character that excluding him actually devalues this game in a BIG way on other platforms. This would be like releasing Injustice 3 while locking Batman behind Xbox.

    But...maybe there are mitigating factors. Perhaps this is a headline gone wild. Maybe it's a timed exclusive. Maybe it's an exclusive version/costume (like Spiderman PS4's costume). Maybe he'll be paid dlc on other platforms. I'm hoping that there is something mitigating this.
    Nanfoodle
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,820
    Nyctelios said:
    Aeander said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    Aeander said:
    Oh boy. Spiderman is apparently going to be a Playstation exclusive.

    I expected 2020 to end in the world on fire, but not like this!
    Oooo that makes me mad. Sony and their never ending rain of terror on the Spiderman IP!!!! It has to end some day!
    In regards to games, they're doing an incredible job, so I am completely okay with it.

    This, is actually a dick move. Spiderman is such a huge character that excluding him actually devalues this game in a BIG way on other platforms. This would be like releasing Injustice 3 while locking Batman behind Xbox.

    But...maybe there are mitigating factors. Perhaps this is a headline gone wild. Maybe it's a timed exclusive. Maybe it's an exclusive version/costume (like Spiderman PS4's costume). Maybe he'll be paid dlc on other platforms. I'm hoping that there is something mitigating this.
    I think it has more to do with IP rights.

    Cause when you buy certain licenses you get it for a specific media.

    You can find charts online about who owns what where... spoiler, it is a mess.



    For example, we can't have a solo Hulk film cause the rights to a solo Hulk film is owned by some old fella who don't want anyone doing anything with it. But, Hulk can appear as a second character and guests as long his name is not on the title. It is weird like that.


    The same goes for many 'races' in Marvel universe which led to the swap between the kree and the skrull on the cinematic universe due Guardians of the Galaxy being release when they didn't have the rights.
    Maybe. I don't know. I'm pretty sure Sony's exclusive rights to Spiderman are solely in the realm of film.

    He just appeared in MUA3, a Nintendo exclusive game. If Sony had the capability of hitting Nintendo's game with a sledgehammer, you bet your ass they would. Unless Nintendo paid them a sum of money that would be ridiculous for a game that is clearly as rushed and middling as MUA3.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    edited August 2020
    My only real concerns with the game are how much the solo will play second fiddle to co-op and what the monetarization will look like.
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,173
    Scot said:
    My only real concerns with the game are how much the solo will play second fiddle to co-op and what the monetarization will look like.
    Well, according to what we know so far.. 

    AI companions can be used for everything except the raids, which have matchmaking. 

    Costumes are extra. Emotes. Nameplates. All extra. No idea what else will be in the shop right now, but I don't doubt there's gotta be something. 
    Scot



  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    edited August 2020
    As for Spidey only being on the PS, come on we need an Emma Frost exclusive on the PC and I will just about be consolable. ;)

    P.S I know she is not in the Avengers.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,820
    Nyctelios said:
    Scot said:
    As for Spidey only being on the PS, come on we need an Emma Frost exclusive on the PC and I will just about be consolable. ;)

    P.S I know she is not in the Avengers.
    They could have done one exclusive character for each port just like Soul Calibur did back in the day.

    PS would get a Tekken character, Xbox got Darth Vader and Gamecube got Link. They did it again in a later title if I'm not mistaken.
    That really isn't preferable though.

    Because then the problem goes from "other platform players are second class citizens" to "it's literally impossible to own the full game."
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    I just noticed and not pretending to be an expert, but what is Daredevil doing in the Avengers? You might as well have Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Jessica Jones as well for this  "seen in film or TV" Avengers team. :)
    Mendel
  • MykellMykell Member UncommonPosts: 780
    Scot said:
    I just noticed and not pretending to be an expert, but what is Daredevil doing in the Avengers? You might as well have Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Jessica Jones as well for this  "seen in film or TV" Avengers team. :)

    Daredevil has appeared and teamed up with the Avengers as far back as the 60's in the comics. He may not be an "official" member but he and plenty of other heroes have teamed up over the decades.  Luke Cage was a member of the New Avengers series.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,820
    Daredevil would make me so happy.
    Tokken
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,173
    So many different versions of the Avengers there's a long list of potential characters. 



  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,820
    So many different versions of the Avengers there's a long list of potential characters. 
    I will also say that there is absolutely no reason why they need to stick to canon Avengers when they are telling their own story with their own versions of the characters.

    If they want to bring my boy Gambit into their version of the Avengers, and Marvel/Disney allow it, that's great.
    maskedweaselstrawhat0981
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    edited August 2020
    Horusra said:
    Notice the wording, "ambushed the avengers...but here comes"

    DD and BW are not official Avengers, I think air time is key factor that determines who is an Avenger now.
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,820
    Scot said:
    Horusra said:
    Notice the wording, "ambushed the avengers...but here comes"

    DD and BW are not official Avengers, I think air time is key factor that determines who is an Avenger now.
    The flip side is that there is no rule stating that Daredevil cannot be an Avenger. Superheroes change affiliations all the time.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,824
    edited August 2020
    Aeander said:
    Scot said:
    Horusra said:
    Notice the wording, "ambushed the avengers...but here comes"

    DD and BW are not official Avengers, I think air time is key factor that determines who is an Avenger now.
    The flip side is that there is no rule stating that Daredevil cannot be an Avenger. Superheroes change affiliations all the time.
    I would not say "all the time" but it certainly happens. What concerns me is this is a branding exercise with barely a nod at Marvel lore. Yes, anyone could be in the Avengers, any super who had air time that is.

    But more importantly it shrinks the Marvel universe, though AIM is in this one which is good. Maybe it is just a matter of time and I expect to see everything at once, but there is more than one Marvel team out there. 
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,173
    It's really good. It's not.. perfect. And I don't just mean because there's a ton of menu bugs that causes crashes and locks characters from being played.  I just mean that some characters kits are very strange, and some things aren't uniform in function from character to character. 

    I like it though. I feel like the characters all have their own unique feel even if some characters are clearly better in most situations than others. All the content is alright, but it's repetitive, and so early on too. Hopefully they change it up some. 
    Scot



  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,179
    It's really good. It's not.. perfect. And I don't just mean because there's a ton of menu bugs that causes crashes and locks characters from being played.  I just mean that some characters kits are very strange, and some things aren't uniform in function from character to character. 

    I like it though. I feel like the characters all have their own unique feel even if some characters are clearly better in most situations than others. All the content is alright, but it's repetitive, and so early on too. Hopefully they change it up some. 

    This is about how I feel right now. There were some minor bugs but they were small enough that it's not worrying. My biggest problem has been the baddies that are immune to every tactic. Playing as Hulk, I had a hard time with the big bads that you can't knock down, or grab, and they can damage you through your rage mode. That and the hold the point objectives where they throw tons of baddies at you with ranged attacks. Not sure what I'm supposed to do there.
    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


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