XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.
Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.
If you die to AI that should make you question those things without a death penalty. I mean, you died to AI.
Been following this game for 6 years now. No end or completion in sight. Seems like they are 1.5 years behind schedule. Guess ill check in next year.
Inside scoop is 18 months
If you get upset about waiting for MMOs. My 22 years of MMOing has taught me. Stop waiting and go play some games you enjoy. MMOs are almost always late and with so many moving parts, its to be expected.
XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.
Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.
Yes, running back to your corpse and grinding back whatever that was lost sounds like fun in 1999, apparently the year you're still living in.
It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.
There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.
Things like: Corpse runs Massive inventory management (low inventory space) Running around the zones all day no teleportation. Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)
I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.
It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.
There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.
Things like: Corpse runs Massive inventory management (low inventory space) Running around the zones all day no teleportation. Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)
I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.
Or better yet, research the game because maybe, just MAYBE, you're not their target audience.
Well then their target audience is going to be really small.
Never hear when I take kids to the amusement parks, man I am so glad we are wasting our time in this line, it makes the experience so much more fun in the end. Nope, I would get my kids the speed-pass, and they would have a blast riding all the rides over and over again.
I think its a complete misconception to say because people liked amusement parks when they were a young kid, the reason was because of long lines and time wasters.
It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.
There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.
Things like: Corpse runs Massive inventory management (low inventory space) Running around the zones all day no teleportation. Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)
I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.
I would partially advocate some of those options, the running around and eating and drinking. I think a MMO should be worth looking at and experiencing, you should should want to run or ride around. I would only want to see eating and drinking used to encourage social activity, like needing to have some food and drink in an inn to get over "combat fatigue".
We do vary on what old school we like (though your last example reminded me of survivor MMOs), one constant factor though is there is no clammering for corpse runs.
It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.
There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.
Things like: Corpse runs Massive inventory management (low inventory space) Running around the zones all day no teleportation. Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)
I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.
I would partially advocate some of those options, the running around and eating and drinking. I think a MMO should be worth looking at and experiencing, you should should want to run or ride around. I would only want to see eating and drinking used to encourage social activity, like needing to have some food and drink in an inn to get over "combat fatigue".
We do vary on what old school we like (though your last example reminded me of survivor MMOs), one constant factor though is there is no clammering for corpse runs.
I am not against food or drink in an mmo, especially for buffs or debuffs. I have a problem when it moves into tedious. When a significant portion of your playtime is revolving around these time wasting mechanics. When you are spending your entire game time either managing inventory space, or running to your next dungeon, or balancing your nutritional state, or even running back to your corpse to just die again and start the process all over. Where is the fun?
Yes food is in survival games now, but the industries are merging. Survival games will be MMO's soon, just natural progression.
It is amazing that we call so often for some old school gameplay and game structure, and what do they give us, corpse runs. It's funny because I cannot remember any forum or any player conversation where more than one person (there is sometimes one) said "Oh yeah they gotta bring back those corpse runs!" Even the full loot crowd just want the loot, not players messing about trying to get some gear back.
There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.
Things like: Corpse runs Massive inventory management (low inventory space) Running around the zones all day no teleportation. Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)
I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.
I would partially advocate some of those options, the running around and eating and drinking. I think a MMO should be worth looking at and experiencing, you should should want to run or ride around. I would only want to see eating and drinking used to encourage social activity, like needing to have some food and drink in an inn to get over "combat fatigue".
We do vary on what old school we like (though your last example reminded me of survivor MMOs), one constant factor though is there is no clammering for corpse runs.
I am not against food or drink in an mmo, especially for buffs or debuffs. I have a problem when it moves into tedious. When a significant portion of your playtime is revolving around these time wasting mechanics. When you are spending your entire game time either managing inventory space, or running to your next dungeon, or balancing your nutritional state, or even running back to your corpse to just die again and start the process all over. Where is the fun?
Yes food is in survival games now, but the industries are merging. Survival games will be MMO's soon, just natural progression.
I don't fully agree with you here, but only in extent of the merging. We have seen a lot of gameplay, themes, background and financial models ported from one MMO genre to another. Overwhelmingly it has been more modern takes like Survival and Action MMOs informing the old guard. But yes, something like eating drinking and avoiding exposure is some of the most tedious gameplay I have played. There have been a couple of exceptions in solo games where it was very marginal that I did not mind, there it did not become the gist of the gameplay.
I hope this game follows "The Vision" as closely as it can and still succeed in today's gaming world. I absolutely loved Brad's other games and hated what SOE did to them (and don't get me started on DBG/whatever the EQ studio is called now). Now that Brad has passed on I am glad to see this game still moving forward and not in the same state as Chronicles of Elyria... I find the corpse runs for money/inventory to be acceptable, but I have never been a fan of equipment durability. Even that is acceptable compared to the old corpse runs. I had time for that when I was in my twenties... These days I don't know if Ill have time for the game before retirement so I'm in no hurry to see it released.
Oh, here's a link to my all time favorite EQ related song/video. I remember the old style corpse runs well to this day, and am thankful they no longer exist as brutally as they once were.
I do understand why corpse retrieval is such a controversial topic and one many say is tedious and completely unnecessary in this day and age for a game. No one likes it. I certainly never did especially when I was dead broke having just bought some jewellery and unable to afford a necro summoning my corpse. I spent hours outside of Old Sebilis waiting to follow a group in or somehow get some help to get my corpse back. It took me something like 10 hours to finally get it and I swear to this day the memory of the moment I looted my corpse and got all my stuff back and I cracked such a huge smile and thanked the group profusely that I recall every one of them.
That is what a death penalty like this does. It creates unbreakable bonds with others. People who help you and who you in turn come to aid when they need you. That is something you cannot make out of thin air and is cultivated in an atmosphere of fear and loss and yes it is a horrible mechanic. No one likes it but we tolerate it and advocate the mechanic because you can see how the community around you behaves.
We are not masochists and advocate a harder death penalty to satiate our imagined forays into that fetish but it is a genuine community builder.
Guilds who come to help their guild mates get their bodies out of Planes or deep dungeons mean something when you open your mouth and ask for help in guild chat and the guild jumps into action and make an adventure out of it. All of this builds a community and one that is lasting. You cannot play selfishly in this type of game because it comes back and bites you when you least expect it.
Players know the consequences of their actions and are wary and it isn't true that wariness translates into fear of exploration because I was back in Old Sebilis the very next day. Many players continue playing and that dungeon is scary but you still go in. You remember the dungeon because of what it did to you and the loot is all the more sweeter for it.
When you have a light penalty none of it matters. There is no gravitas. You argue but it is a game not torture but what I hope is to live in the world the game creates and for that there has to be fear and consequences. There has to be player responsibility and most of all a group of players should be willing to help one another and it is to create unforgettable memories.
This is what a PvE game is about. I know PvPers say there is nothing exciting about PvE experiences. This is what makes memories and this is what working together means. I don't relish losing my corpse or the number of hours it will take to get it back (you have to be a lunatic to enjoy that) I do however enjoy meeting the people who help me and the new friends I make.
I remember the first time I played a game with very little death penalty. I quickly lost all fear of dying and without the fear of dying I also lost any feeling of having an adventure and pretty soon I got bored with the game and quit.
A death penalty that hurts really does add something to a game. It's not that people enjoy it when it happens to them. It's just that knowing it's there means you have something at stake which makes everything you do a little more exciting.
I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people would refuse to play a MMO just because it has a little bit of an actual penalty for dying. If they were talking about perma-death or something crazy like that I could see people staying away because of it but what they have planned is relatively tame. I still believe that Pantheon will flop hard but I doubt if the death penalty will have much to do with it.
Isn't that sort of similar to Stockholm syndrome, where some people are abused and start to develop positive feelings to the abuser? I suppose some people will develop close bonds during tragedy, I don't know why someone would want to be put into constant tragic situations just to feel positive reinforcement.
I would rather get positive feelings from accomplishment.
I remember the first time I played a game with very little death penalty. I quickly lost all fear of dying and without the fear of dying I also lost any feeling of having an adventure and pretty soon I got bored with the game and quit.
A death penalty that hurts really does add something to a game. It's not that people enjoy it when it happens to them. It's just that knowing it's there means you have something at stake which makes everything you do a little more exciting.
I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people would refuse to play a MMO just because it has a little bit of an actual penalty for dying. If they were talking about perma-death or something crazy like that I could see people staying away because of it but what they have planned is relatively tame. I still believe that Pantheon will flop hard but I doubt if the death penalty will have much to do with it.
So why is perma-death so crazy to you then? By your logic, perma-death should give a higher degree of loss so therefore better memories and fun?
XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.
In my eyes it makes the game more meaningful. Nothing like the old days in Ultima Online when you spot a red and think shit I could lose all my gear here so you either risk fighting or you find another way around.
I remember the first time I played a game with very little death penalty. I quickly lost all fear of dying and without the fear of dying I also lost any feeling of having an adventure and pretty soon I got bored with the game and quit.
A death penalty that hurts really does add something to a game. It's not that people enjoy it when it happens to them. It's just that knowing it's there means you have something at stake which makes everything you do a little more exciting.
I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people would refuse to play a MMO just because it has a little bit of an actual penalty for dying. If they were talking about perma-death or something crazy like that I could see people staying away because of it but what they have planned is relatively tame. I still believe that Pantheon will flop hard but I doubt if the death penalty will have much to do with it.
So why is perma-death so crazy to you then? By your logic, perma-death should give a higher degree of loss so therefore better memories and fun?
One gives the possibility of recovery and the other is complete loss. There is a huge difference plus you're arguing without understanding the basic concept of loss. In one case the loss has no possibility of recovery in the other you get a chance to form relationships and bonds with other players while recovering that which is recoverable.
If you're going to have harsh penalties for death, you better be ready to enforce harsh rules on those causing those deaths maliciously, i.e. training etc.
Is Pantheon really going to have full GM support and a play-nice-policy? I doubt it.
Drinking and eating for buffs vs drinking and eating for maintenance. The difference between those two are purely your own perception. One makes numbers go up, the other prevents them from going down.
Now, if you are using food and drink for buffs and you wont go anywhere without them your new baseline is now at the top where the food and drink take you. You are now eating and drinking to maintain that new baseline.
I think PVE has catered to easy mode and no consequences for far to long. Going a bit old school may finally add a little adrenaline back into exploring and encounters.
I do see the temptation of players (who normally wouldn't) to perhaps research/watch on youtube encounters/content ahead of time to avoid death... ruining the fun of figuring out strategies and adapting.
I dont recall there being youtube back in EQ1/UO days
I remember the first time I played a game with very little death penalty. I quickly lost all fear of dying and without the fear of dying I also lost any feeling of having an adventure and pretty soon I got bored with the game and quit.
A death penalty that hurts really does add something to a game. It's not that people enjoy it when it happens to them. It's just that knowing it's there means you have something at stake which makes everything you do a little more exciting.
I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people would refuse to play a MMO just because it has a little bit of an actual penalty for dying. If they were talking about perma-death or something crazy like that I could see people staying away because of it but what they have planned is relatively tame. I still believe that Pantheon will flop hard but I doubt if the death penalty will have much to do with it.
So why is perma-death so crazy to you then? By your logic, perma-death should give a higher degree of loss so therefore better memories and fun?
As you yourself just indicated it's a matter of degree. Losing an hours worth of experience gain, having to run back from your bind point and maybe needing to do a corpse run is enough to sting a little. Losing weeks or months or even years worth of character progression and all accumulated money and items is many degrees more severe.
Of course the response to what I just said is that it's all subjective and for some people even losing five minutes worth of experience is too severe. What you need to remember is that those people are girly-men and are not worthy to carry a sword into glorious battle next to me.
XP and money loss upon death and corpse run? That’s some old school shit that should stay in the old school. Doesn’t add fun to the game or make death meaningful. It just becomes a slight annoyance.
Uhm, the point of death penalties is to make players question the validity of their intelligence versus their incompetence. If you ask me, simply respawning with everything after dying makes a game extremely boring almost to the point that death is so meaningless, you may as well be invincible and oh boy does that sound like fun.
If you die to AI that should make you question those things without a death penalty. I mean, you died to AI.
Thank god for the return of corpse runs and exp loss!! This is the stuff that separates the children from adults, people from monkeys etc. I've no issue with easy mode games being around. Different jokes for different folks and all that but I've really missed this as it requires thought, strategy and teamwork.
Fact is there are still MANY people playing EQ1 for a reason and this will give them and others a chance to live it again in a modern setting and more. Can't wait thanks Visionary Realms
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes, running back to your corpse and grinding back whatever that was lost sounds like fun in 1999, apparently the year you're still living in.
Nobody has claimed they are the majority... In fact, quite the opposite. The devs have even said the game is being made for the niche. GTFOH
There is a segment of the PVE community that thinks mindless time wasters are the magic formulas of MMO's.
Things like:
Corpse runs
Massive inventory management (low inventory space)
Running around the zones all day no teleportation.
Eating and Drinking food every second (not for buffs, just to live)
I think if people are not having fun, and your just wasting peoples time for no reason, then you should rethink the design and remove it from the MMO.
Never hear when I take kids to the amusement parks, man I am so glad we are wasting our time in this line, it makes the experience so much more fun in the end. Nope, I would get my kids the speed-pass, and they would have a blast riding all the rides over and over again.
I think its a complete misconception to say because people liked amusement parks when they were a young kid, the reason was because of long lines and time wasters.
We do vary on what old school we like (though your last example reminded me of survivor MMOs), one constant factor though is there is no clammering for corpse runs.
Yes food is in survival games now, but the industries are merging. Survival games will be MMO's soon, just natural progression.
Oh, here's a link to my all time favorite EQ related song/video. I remember the old style corpse runs well to this day, and am thankful they no longer exist as brutally as they once were.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW_yVGPd0ns
That is what a death penalty like this does. It creates unbreakable bonds with others. People who help you and who you in turn come to aid when they need you. That is something you cannot make out of thin air and is cultivated in an atmosphere of fear and loss and yes it is a horrible mechanic. No one likes it but we tolerate it and advocate the mechanic because you can see how the community around you behaves.
We are not masochists and advocate a harder death penalty to satiate our imagined forays into that fetish but it is a genuine community builder.
Guilds who come to help their guild mates get their bodies out of Planes or deep dungeons mean something when you open your mouth and ask for help in guild chat and the guild jumps into action and make an adventure out of it. All of this builds a community and one that is lasting. You cannot play selfishly in this type of game because it comes back and bites you when you least expect it.
Players know the consequences of their actions and are wary and it isn't true that wariness translates into fear of exploration because I was back in Old Sebilis the very next day. Many players continue playing and that dungeon is scary but you still go in. You remember the dungeon because of what it did to you and the loot is all the more sweeter for it.
When you have a light penalty none of it matters. There is no gravitas. You argue but it is a game not torture but what I hope is to live in the world the game creates and for that there has to be fear and consequences. There has to be player responsibility and most of all a group of players should be willing to help one another and it is to create unforgettable memories.
This is what a PvE game is about. I know PvPers say there is nothing exciting about PvE experiences. This is what makes memories and this is what working together means. I don't relish losing my corpse or the number of hours it will take to get it back (you have to be a lunatic to enjoy that) I do however enjoy meeting the people who help me and the new friends I make.
A death penalty that hurts really does add something to a game. It's not that people enjoy it when it happens to them. It's just that knowing it's there means you have something at stake which makes everything you do a little more exciting.
I find it difficult to believe that a significant number of people would refuse to play a MMO just because it has a little bit of an actual penalty for dying. If they were talking about perma-death or something crazy like that I could see people staying away because of it but what they have planned is relatively tame. I still believe that Pantheon will flop hard but I doubt if the death penalty will have much to do with it.
I would rather get positive feelings from accomplishment.
So why is perma-death so crazy to you then? By your logic, perma-death should give a higher degree of loss so therefore better memories and fun?
In my eyes it makes the game more meaningful. Nothing like the old days in Ultima Online when you spot a red and think shit I could lose all my gear here so you either risk fighting or you find another way around.
Now, if you are using food and drink for buffs and you wont go anywhere without them your new baseline is now at the top where the food and drink take you. You are now eating and drinking to maintain that new baseline.
they’re both required.
I do see the temptation of players (who normally wouldn't) to perhaps research/watch on youtube encounters/content ahead of time to avoid death... ruining the fun of figuring out strategies and adapting.
I dont recall there being youtube back in EQ1/UO days
As you yourself just indicated it's a matter of degree. Losing an hours worth of experience gain, having to run back from your bind point and maybe needing to do a corpse run is enough to sting a little. Losing weeks or months or even years worth of character progression and all accumulated money and items is many degrees more severe.
Of course the response to what I just said is that it's all subjective and for some people even losing five minutes worth of experience is too severe. What you need to remember is that those people are girly-men and are not worthy to carry a sword into glorious battle next to me.
Maybe all the bads will get good
Fact is there are still MANY people playing EQ1 for a reason and this will give them and others a chance to live it again in a modern setting and more. Can't wait thanks Visionary Realms