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Crowfall 5.125 TEST Patch Brings Bunch of Fixes to Campaign, Powers, More

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  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,092
    Arkade99 said:

    cheyane said:


    Aeander said:

    I think there are some merits to the game design on offer here. Pick your own rules PvP is pretty appealing.

    I wouldn't call Crowfall's pitch as appealing as Ashes of Creation's or even Camelot Unchained's, but it's also not a subscription game. There's potential market room for it, and it's not like we're being flooded with MMOs anymore.


    What type of pick your rules PvP do they have? Could you perhaps shed some light on it and whether a player like me who prefers crafting and support roles will be able to carve a niche for myself.



    There are different world types. Every player gets their own Eternal Kingdom, which is your own world that you can build up, but it doesn't have mobs and no resources other than basic. You can set PvP on or off and they are mainly used as training areas or as commercial hubs.

    God's Reach in PvE only and meant as a place for players to level and learn about the game before being thrown into the fire.

    The Infected is 3-faction PvP, but there are no winners and no loot drop on death. It's basically a never ending 3 way tug of war, but it does have sieging, so it can serve as a place for guilds to practice siege strategies, or just for players to find a bit of small group/solo pvp.

    The Shadow is 3-faction PvP also, but the world progresses through the seasons, from spring to winter, and at the end a winner is declared. Players drop their inventory upon death.

    The Dregs is guild vs guild PvP. It has everything the Shadow has, but also city building and the divine favor system. Guilds can take keeps and add buildings that provide various benefits, like better crafting stations, barracks that produce guards, sentinels that create a no stealth zone, etc. The divine favor system is a set of cards that provide guilds with various objectives each season. These objectives provide ways for guilds to earn points toward victory outside of the siege system.

    When people refer to campaigns, they are talking about Shadow and Dregs worlds, as they are the only ones that end. These worlds have import and export rules. Those rules determine how much you can bring into or out of a campaign. Some campaigns will be zero import, while others will allow you to bring in a certain amount of stuff. Exports will be largely determined by how well you do in the campaign, though that functionality isn't active yet. Currently, everyone gets to export the same amount.

    The general idea is that they can make different campaigns with different rules. Some campaigns might be limited to certain races or classes. Some might be limited based on skill training or vessel quality. Popular rulesets can be repeated and less popular ones will end when the world ends. There's really no end to the different rules they can create. The campaign system allows them to try out different things.

    As a crafter, or any type of player really, I would highly recommend finding a guild. Crafters in Crowfall are very important. The best stuff is made by crafters.

    There is a issue currently with early game crafting, as it takes too long for crafters to be able to make stuff better than what drops from mobs, but that's an issue they are aware of and we should see improvements. They have already made some changes to fix it, but they probably need to go a bit further. To be clear though, only weapons and armor drop from mobs. Stuff like harvesting tools, vessels, potions and jewelry have to be crafted. And even some weapons and armor have to be crafted as well. Mobs drop combat armor, but if you want armor that has harvesting or crafting stats, it will have to be crafted.

    Another issue with crafting currently is that it involves a lot of clicks. The original plan was to have factories that would enable players to mass produce items. You would create an item by hand, but instead of producing the item, you would produce a blueprint that would have a certain number of copies, which you would then put into a factory along with the required resources/sub components.

    Factories won't make it in before launch, but they are working on a way to create a variable number of items at the same time. For example, Coal, used in Blacksmithing, requires 3 wood and 2 ethereal dust, and produces 5 coal. You need 30 coal to make a complete set of armor. Instead of executing the coal recipe 6 times, we'll be able to do it once. I'm not sure if the functionality will extend to stuff that you have to experiment on...I think not...but even if it's only for the stuff like coal, carbon, grinding wheels, etc., it will help reduce the number of clicks. It will be especially useful for cooking, as nothing in cooking involves experimentation.
    Thank you for that detailed answer.
    Crichton: 'If he masters wormhole technology, what will he use it for?'
    Scorpius: 'Faster delivery of pizzas.'

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,113
    lahnmir said:

    Ungood said:
    As I saw it, their stealth counters were vastly lacking, and the balance was a joke. I suppose their idea is to have these vast campaign battles where the glaring imbalances would be less noticable.

    The problem with that, is the larger the battle the less noticeable individual skill is as well, and all to often size and a semblance of coordination will grant victory far more than all other factors. 

    However, the uncomfortable truth is that there is no shortage of games with that kind of crappy PvP systems, where levels, class, gear, and combos give massive advantages, so, there would be little to no motivation for someone to leave their current unbalanced game where they have accumulated in game wealth and hopefully a network of people that know and play with, just to put with the same problem of imbalance in another game.

    This is in fact why a game like Fortnight was as popular as it was, it was a PvP game in the purest sense of what a PvP game could be. No Teams, No Zergs, No Levels, No Classes, No Starting Advantages of any kind, you log in at the same time with everyone else, Starting on Equal Footing, and the last person standing wins.

    While Crowfall looked fun and I enjoyed playing it for the bit that I did, as far as PVP goes, it didn't offer anything that felt new or exciting, to put another way, there was nothing aventagegious of Crowfalls combat system over say a game like GW2.

    I am sure there will be a first day rush like most games, but the real question is about retaining the players, and sadly when I played Crowfall, nothing really stood out as "Ok, wow this is truly different" instead it felt more like "Oh this crap again"

    But YMMV.
    Crowfall is a 100% about the group versus group gameplay yes. Whether that works as intended tactics and performance wise can be debated but that is the way the game is set up.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    The main problem with this kind of design, is that there becomes a threshold population to make the game viable. Just like what plagued other games like Total War, GW2, even as far back as DAOC, where if not enough people were on the field, the glaring imbalances became apparent.

    Now, it might seem to odd to some people that PvP means Player vs Player, not Toon vs Toon, now for people that want their toon to do all the work, there are no shortage of PvE games out there. There are many insulting terms I could use for people that want to depend on a PvE grind to give them an edge in PvP, but really, there is no point in being that juvenile or petty. 

    The reality will remain, people who go to a PvP game want to play PvP. If the game comes across as too much PvE, that pulls away from the basic idea of playing a PvP game to start with.

    This is something Crowfall will have to square with as they get closer to launch, that they are not going to pull in the current massive PvP players, and, unless they do something, I dunno.. Unique with their game, they are not going to pull in the people that already like crap PvE&P hybrid that is many other MMO's.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,503
    Ungood said:
    lahnmir said:

    Ungood said:
    As I saw it, their stealth counters were vastly lacking, and the balance was a joke. I suppose their idea is to have these vast campaign battles where the glaring imbalances would be less noticable.

    The problem with that, is the larger the battle the less noticeable individual skill is as well, and all to often size and a semblance of coordination will grant victory far more than all other factors. 

    However, the uncomfortable truth is that there is no shortage of games with that kind of crappy PvP systems, where levels, class, gear, and combos give massive advantages, so, there would be little to no motivation for someone to leave their current unbalanced game where they have accumulated in game wealth and hopefully a network of people that know and play with, just to put with the same problem of imbalance in another game.

    This is in fact why a game like Fortnight was as popular as it was, it was a PvP game in the purest sense of what a PvP game could be. No Teams, No Zergs, No Levels, No Classes, No Starting Advantages of any kind, you log in at the same time with everyone else, Starting on Equal Footing, and the last person standing wins.

    While Crowfall looked fun and I enjoyed playing it for the bit that I did, as far as PVP goes, it didn't offer anything that felt new or exciting, to put another way, there was nothing aventagegious of Crowfalls combat system over say a game like GW2.

    I am sure there will be a first day rush like most games, but the real question is about retaining the players, and sadly when I played Crowfall, nothing really stood out as "Ok, wow this is truly different" instead it felt more like "Oh this crap again"

    But YMMV.
    Crowfall is a 100% about the group versus group gameplay yes. Whether that works as intended tactics and performance wise can be debated but that is the way the game is set up.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    The main problem with this kind of design, is that there becomes a threshold population to make the game viable. Just like what plagued other games like Total War, GW2, even as far back as DAOC, where if not enough people were on the field, the glaring imbalances became apparent.

    Now, it might seem to odd to some people that PvP means Player vs Player, not Toon vs Toon, now for people that want their toon to do all the work, there are no shortage of PvE games out there. There are many insulting terms I could use for people that want to depend on a PvE grind to give them an edge in PvP, but really, there is no point in being that juvenile or petty. 

    The reality will remain, people who go to a PvP game want to play PvP. If the game comes across as too much PvE, that pulls away from the basic idea of playing a PvP game to start with.

    This is something Crowfall will have to square with as they get closer to launch, that they are not going to pull in the current massive PvP players, and, unless they do something, I dunno.. Unique with their game, they are not going to pull in the people that already like crap PvE&P hybrid that is many other MMO's.
    The game will definitely need a threshold player wise, the upside being that they can introduce specific campaigns and rules to deal with dwindling numbers, the game allows such flexibility in its design. Will that remain fun or even be fun to begin with? We will see.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,113
    edited August 1
    lahnmir said:
    Ungood said:
    lahnmir said:

    Ungood said:
    As I saw it, their stealth counters were vastly lacking, and the balance was a joke. I suppose their idea is to have these vast campaign battles where the glaring imbalances would be less noticable.

    The problem with that, is the larger the battle the less noticeable individual skill is as well, and all to often size and a semblance of coordination will grant victory far more than all other factors. 

    However, the uncomfortable truth is that there is no shortage of games with that kind of crappy PvP systems, where levels, class, gear, and combos give massive advantages, so, there would be little to no motivation for someone to leave their current unbalanced game where they have accumulated in game wealth and hopefully a network of people that know and play with, just to put with the same problem of imbalance in another game.

    This is in fact why a game like Fortnight was as popular as it was, it was a PvP game in the purest sense of what a PvP game could be. No Teams, No Zergs, No Levels, No Classes, No Starting Advantages of any kind, you log in at the same time with everyone else, Starting on Equal Footing, and the last person standing wins.

    While Crowfall looked fun and I enjoyed playing it for the bit that I did, as far as PVP goes, it didn't offer anything that felt new or exciting, to put another way, there was nothing aventagegious of Crowfalls combat system over say a game like GW2.

    I am sure there will be a first day rush like most games, but the real question is about retaining the players, and sadly when I played Crowfall, nothing really stood out as "Ok, wow this is truly different" instead it felt more like "Oh this crap again"

    But YMMV.
    Crowfall is a 100% about the group versus group gameplay yes. Whether that works as intended tactics and performance wise can be debated but that is the way the game is set up.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    The main problem with this kind of design, is that there becomes a threshold population to make the game viable. Just like what plagued other games like Total War, GW2, even as far back as DAOC, where if not enough people were on the field, the glaring imbalances became apparent.

    Now, it might seem to odd to some people that PvP means Player vs Player, not Toon vs Toon, now for people that want their toon to do all the work, there are no shortage of PvE games out there. There are many insulting terms I could use for people that want to depend on a PvE grind to give them an edge in PvP, but really, there is no point in being that juvenile or petty. 

    The reality will remain, people who go to a PvP game want to play PvP. If the game comes across as too much PvE, that pulls away from the basic idea of playing a PvP game to start with.

    This is something Crowfall will have to square with as they get closer to launch, that they are not going to pull in the current massive PvP players, and, unless they do something, I dunno.. Unique with their game, they are not going to pull in the people that already like crap PvE&P hybrid that is many other MMO's.
    The game will definitely need a threshold player wise, the upside being that they can introduce specific campaigns and rules to deal with dwindling numbers, the game allows such flexibility in its design. Will that remain fun or even be fun to begin with? We will see.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Again, the campaign size, duration, or whatever objectives they plan to lay out, won't address power imbalances of toon vs toon. Which is IMHO a core problem here.

    Just like in GW2, they had to revamp their entire gear system, change some abilities, and do a whole lot of tweaking for their sPvP (5v5) platform due to their massive toon vs toon imbalances, that they didn't bother to do for WvW because the size of the population hid the issue.

    And I say Hid the issue, because it rears its ugly head during off hours, and anyone and everyone who plays on the off hours has expressed this.

    Again this is something Crowfall will need to deal with if they plan to pull in the PvP crowd.

    How they deal with it, is on them, but from what I have seen so far, while Crowfall is not a bad game, in fact I really liked the graphics, But Truth be told, it lacks shall we say, a certain level of Pull, to be the game of choice among the options already out there, much like the many various WoW clones, while many were not bad at all, they were just very generic.

    And this is something Crowfall will need to deal with, that feeling of being "MMO PvE&P" which exists in no shortage among all the other MMO's on the market.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
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