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Chronicles of Elyria Lawsuit Finds Lawyer

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599

imageChronicles of Elyria Lawsuit Finds Lawyer

It looks like the saga of the lawsuit stemming from Chronicles of Elyria has finally found a lawyer.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • xion12121xion12121 Member UncommonPosts: 199
    edited July 2020
    It's good that they are going after SbS that makes sense they stole people's money and didn't deliver an end user product. However, Xsolla being a 3rd party provider I don't see how they are responsible? Xsolla would be like "paypal" a payment provider but not responsible for content. That's more like a middle man just doing 3rd party work. I think the lawsuit would have been better served going after SbS itself only.
    [Deleted User]KyleranMendelPirrayaxpsyncGdemami

    I would give you a guest pass to SWOTR, but then I wouldn't be able to find a way to live with myself afterwards....

  • BrotherMaynardBrotherMaynard Member RarePosts: 577
    The least SBS could have done before shutting down was to provide concept art for pitchforks, to better go with all future news articles...


    [Deleted User]Wellspringstrawhat0981KyleranTacticalZombehinfomatzbcbullyMcSleazxpsyncAmathe
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,902
    xion12121 said:
    It's good that they are going after SbS that makes sense they stole people's money and didn't deliver an end user product. However, Xsolla being a 3rd party provider I don't see how they are responsible? Xsolla would be like "paypal" a payment provider but not responsible for content. That's more like a middle man just doing 3rd party work. I think the lawsuit would have been better served going after SbS itself only.
    Apparently Xsolla has terms of use that promise refund if the product is not delivered, and they aren't honoring those terms.
    IselinLeFantomeUngoodMcSleazGdemami
     
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    xion12121 said:
    It's good that they are going after SbS that makes sense they stole people's money and didn't deliver an end user product. However, Xsolla being a 3rd party provider I don't see how they are responsible? Xsolla would be like "paypal" a payment provider but not responsible for content. That's more like a middle man just doing 3rd party work. I think the lawsuit would have been better served going after SbS itself only.

    Xsolla has a refund policy which states they will refund for:

    "Pre-orders where no content has been delivered yet"


    As far as I know, this makes them different from other 3rd party payment processors, which do not make any guarantees on the delivery of video game pre-orders.


    Slapshot1188McSleaz[Deleted User]Gdemami
    --------------------------------------------
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited July 2020
    LMAO i wonder if someone did the math behind that?
    The lawyer is going to add on money on top of that set price.They ALWAYS find a way and legally.So this will be a cost considered outside the lawsuit.
    So as the case gets longer,more drawn out there will be a push to spend even more to get it done.I would be absolutely shocked if it ends up ONLY 35%.

    This is a win win for the lawyer,he gets paid no matter what.often a legit lawyer will simply feel by pressuring the defendant they will force some money out but i very highly doubt this works here.

    I have never looked at the TOS of this operation but i bet there was no guarantee of any kind,no risk involved whatsoever.I also doubt there is one single law they can point to ,so this will have to aim for something outside the box.

    This also would simply be a LLC,you are not going to get a single dime from the Walsh.I am sure most all the money was accounted for somewhere outside the business,wages,expenses,salaries etc etc.So what are they going to do sue a dead business?or a business that has no money in the coffers?

    OK you win,here take .....nothing.
    xion12121alkarionlogmoguy1[Deleted User]McSleaz

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464

    Wizardry said:

    LMAO i wonder if someone did the math behind that?
    The lawyer is going to add on money on top of that set price.They ALWAYS find a way and legally.So this will be a cost considered outside the lawsuit.


    So as the case gets longer,more drawn out there will be a push to spend even more to get it done.I would be absolutely shocked if it ends up ONLY 35%.



    This is a win win for the lawyer,he gets paid no matter what.often a legit lawyer will simply feel by pressuring the defendant they will force some money out but i very highly doubt this works here.



    I have never looked at the TOS of this operation but i bet there was no guarantee of any kind,no risk involved whatsoever.I also doubt there is one single law they can point to ,so this will have to aim for something outside the box.



    This also would simply be a LLC,you are not going to get a single dime from the Walsh.I am sure most all the money was accounted for somewhere outside the business,wages,expenses,salaries etc etc.So what are they going to do sue a dead business?or a business that has no money in the coffers?



    OK you win,here take .....nothing.



    I don't follow. How is the lawyer going to get paid no matter what? All I see is the part about him getting 35% of all potential winnings.

    A win with no nothing, is still WAY better than losing with nothing. At least you are recognized by the court for being in the right, and Caspian in the wrong. Sometimes it's the principle of the thing and not the actual money that matters most.
    McSleazGdemami
    --------------------------------------------
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584




    Wizardry said:


    LMAO i wonder if someone did the math behind that?
    The lawyer is going to add on money on top of that set price.They ALWAYS find a way and legally.So this will be a cost considered outside the lawsuit.




    So as the case gets longer,more drawn out there will be a push to spend even more to get it done.I would be absolutely shocked if it ends up ONLY 35%.





    This is a win win for the lawyer,he gets paid no matter what.often a legit lawyer will simply feel by pressuring the defendant they will force some money out but i very highly doubt this works here.





    I have never looked at the TOS of this operation but i bet there was no guarantee of any kind,no risk involved whatsoever.I also doubt there is one single law they can point to ,so this will have to aim for something outside the box.





    This also would simply be a LLC,you are not going to get a single dime from the Walsh.I am sure most all the money was accounted for somewhere outside the business,wages,expenses,salaries etc etc.So what are they going to do sue a dead business?or a business that has no money in the coffers?





    OK you win,here take .....nothing.






    I don't follow. How is the lawyer going to get paid no matter what? All I see is the part about him getting 35% of all potential winnings.



    A win with no nothing, is still WAY better than losing with nothing. At least you are recognized by the court for being in the right, and Caspian in the wrong. Sometimes it's the principle of the thing and not the actual money that matters most.




    also remember in lawsuits, normally is added a fine, somewhere like you break your word and made me waste time and money to make this right, so lets say you spend 100 on the game, you get that 100 back plus a fine, so in the end you would win something extra, for your time. or in worse case, with is also nice, you make the fucking idiot suffer and lose even more money
    Gdemami
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    hmmm you cant pick feathers from a naked chicken..

    1-4 years of expensive lawyers writing letters back and forth for each letter costing 1k each?

    i feel sorry for the guys who supported this game..

    but the current gaming market just allows these kinda "scams"

    personally i learned my lesson aswell with kickstarter games.

    i dont let my addiction or excitement overruling my money trowing


    currently only buying games that are launching or finished and/or have product
    MendelDarkEvilHatredGdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,677
    xion12121 said:
    It's good that they are going after SbS that makes sense they stole people's money and didn't deliver an end user product. However, Xsolla being a 3rd party provider I don't see how they are responsible? Xsolla would be like "paypal" a payment provider but not responsible for content. That's more like a middle man just doing 3rd party work. I think the lawsuit would have been better served going after SbS itself only.

    Xsolla has a refund policy which states they will refund for:

    "Pre-orders where no content has been delivered yet"


    As far as I know, this makes them different from other 3rd party payment processors, which do not make any guarantees on the delivery of video game pre-orders.


    Except that.... These purchases were not pre-orders, they were clearly stated on the SBS website as being non refundable donations to the cause. (After the initial 2 weeks period or what have you)

    Just another misguided attempt to collect money from the person with the deepest pockets....or one without holes in them at least.


    xion12121[Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    edited July 2020

    Kyleran said:




    xion12121 said:

    It's good that they are going after SbS that makes sense they stole people's money and didn't deliver an end user product. However, Xsolla being a 3rd party provider I don't see how they are responsible? Xsolla would be like "paypal" a payment provider but not responsible for content. That's more like a middle man just doing 3rd party work. I think the lawsuit would have been better served going after SbS itself only.



    Xsolla has a refund policy which states they will refund for:

    "Pre-orders where no content has been delivered yet"


    As far as I know, this makes them different from other 3rd party payment processors, which do not make any guarantees on the delivery of video game pre-orders.




    Except that.... These purchases were not pre-orders, they were clearly stated on the SBS website as being non refundable donations to the cause. (After the initial 2 weeks period or what have you)

    Just another misguided attempt to collect money from the person with the deepest pockets....or one without holes in them at least.





    I have to call that out as incorrect as you have said it a few times. Folks have published receipts that clearly state they were purchasing SPECIFIC items (ie. in game ships, etc...). And the receipts state it was a purchase NOT a donation. Also, there are apparently very strict requirements for an LLC and donations which from what I read, Mr. Walsh may not have followed.


    Someone had posted individual confirmations with the language but I can't quickly find them.

    The 2 law firms (from what I understand they have 2 working together) apparently feel they have a case. And do not forget that Xsolla initially refunded some claims but only reversed their stance once they realized the scope of what was occurring.

    We shall see the result.


    Edit with more info from their TOS:

    7. Purchases and Refunds

    You acknowledge and accept that all purchases of the Services, as well as any purchase of any Goods, Perks, and Attributes, are FINAL. You acknowledge and agree that any applicable fees and other charges, including those paid for licenses to the Services or any Goods, Perks, and Attributes, including any virtual in game currency, are not refundable, in whole or in part. You acknowledge you will not be refunded, receive money, or otherwise be compensated or credited for unused virtual currency or other Goods, Perks, and Attributes, or of any unused Services, when an account is closed, whether such closure is voluntary or involuntary.

    8. Third Party Services

    For certain transactions or aspects of game play, Soulbound Studios may transmit your information to certain third-party services or vendors, or require You to utilize such third-party services to facilitate certain aspects of the Services or purchases of the Services or Goods, Perks, and Attributes. Soulbound Studios makes no warranties or representations as to any such third-party services, and Soulbound Studios will in no way be responsible or in any way liable for Your use of such third-party services. Such use of third party services shall be governed by the terms of service of the particular service, which may or may not differ from these Terms of Service.


    So this is interesting in that it:

    A) Shows that SbS considered these Purchases of goods

    B ) States their No-Refund Policy

    C) Goes on to say that use of 3rd party Services (Xsolla) are governed by that 3rd parties TOS... which in the case of Xsolla said they could refund before delivery.



    WellspringMcSleazGdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • NegnarholfNegnarholf Member UncommonPosts: 2
    Howdy, I'm the guy referred to as the Discord Admin in this news article. Slap covered it pretty well, so I'd refer to his post. The reason we can't directly target SbS in this class action is due their lack of funds. Xsolla, on the other hand, has acted in direct defiance of their own ToS and consumer protection laws, both in the USA and internationally. We fully believe, as do our lawyers, that there's a solid case to be had against both parties.
    Slapshot1188MendelTacticalZombehDakeru[Deleted User]Gdemami
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Howdy, I'm the guy referred to as the Discord Admin in this news article. Slap covered it pretty well, so I'd refer to his post. The reason we can't directly target SbS in this class action is due their lack of funds. Xsolla, on the other hand, has acted in direct defiance of their own ToS and consumer protection laws, both in the USA and internationally. We fully believe, as do our lawyers, that there's a solid case to be had against both parties.

    I think the best approach against SbS would be to attack the LLC.  If they can take that down, then all of the Walch's (all of them) assets *may* become fair game.  An LLC cannot be used to protect assets, especially if there are criminal activities in play.  Fraud comes to mind immediately.

    Xsolla might be an easier target with more readily available cash.

    It will be interesting to see how this case evolves and how the lawyers choose to pursue the legal action.  But it may be a long, involved legal fight.



    [Deleted User]Gdemami

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • NegnarholfNegnarholf Member UncommonPosts: 2

    Mendel said:



    Howdy, I'm the guy referred to as the Discord Admin in this news article. Slap covered it pretty well, so I'd refer to his post. The reason we can't directly target SbS in this class action is due their lack of funds. Xsolla, on the other hand, has acted in direct defiance of their own ToS and consumer protection laws, both in the USA and internationally. We fully believe, as do our lawyers, that there's a solid case to be had against both parties.



    I think the best approach against SbS would be to attack the LLC.  If they can take that down, then all of the Walch's (all of them) assets *may* become fair game.  An LLC cannot be used to protect assets, especially if there are criminal activities in play.  Fraud comes to mind immediately.

    Xsolla might be an easier target with more readily available cash.

    It will be interesting to see how this case evolves and how the lawyers choose to pursue the legal action.  But it may be a long, involved legal fight.







    Unfortunately, no lawyer was willing to pursue the LLC individually in a Class Action suit due to the stated lack of funds. We went through over 30 different firms who all told us the exact same thing before we decided to switch angles. Believe me, I wanted nothing more than to go against Walsh directly, but we concluded a joint suit was our best chance of seeing any legal action taken. In addition, we also believe Xsolla with look to recoup losses from the LLC afterwards which is effectively a workaround.

    And no worries, we're completely prepared to sit on this case for years. It'll be nice to see one of these wannabe-devs face consequences for fraud.
    [Deleted User]UngoodDakeruMcSleazxpsync[Deleted User]Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,677
    edited July 2020
    Howdy, I'm the guy referred to as the Discord Admin in this news article. Slap covered it pretty well, so I'd refer to his post. The reason we can't directly target SbS in this class action is due their lack of funds. Xsolla, on the other hand, has acted in direct defiance of their own ToS and consumer protection laws, both in the USA and internationally. We fully believe, as do our lawyers, that there's a solid case to be had against both parties.
    Honestly, I'm rooting for Xsolla to prevail as I see this as nothing more than lawyers and clients who knew better trying to take advantage of a loophole in the Xsolla TOS simply because they have deeper pockets.

    There's legal and there's right, this lawsuit is mostly the former, but definitely not the latter.






    Asm0deusMcSleazxion12121

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    Kyleran said:
    Howdy, I'm the guy referred to as the Discord Admin in this news article. Slap covered it pretty well, so I'd refer to his post. The reason we can't directly target SbS in this class action is due their lack of funds. Xsolla, on the other hand, has acted in direct defiance of their own ToS and consumer protection laws, both in the USA and internationally. We fully believe, as do our lawyers, that there's a solid case to be had against both parties.
    Honestly, I'm rooting for Xsolla to prevail as I see this as nothing more than lawyers and clients who knew better trying to take advantage of a loophole in the Xsolla TOS simply because they have deeper pockets.

    There's legal and there's right, this lawsuit is mostly the former, but definitely not the latter.






    That's pretty unfair.  It's not like Xsolla made a mistake in advertising. It wasn't a typo and it's not a "loophole".   They INTENTIONALLY added that in order to entice companies to use them and customers to feel comfortable with them.  They gained a benefit from that policy so if someone calls them on it I do not feel sorry for them.  They made a profit on each and every transaction they processed. 

    If they did NOT include that refund policy clear as day I would agree, but they did include it and it was an intentional act, not a mistake.  It's actually really shitty for the company to try and weasel out of it (after paying out the initial claims).
    Kyleran[Deleted User]WellspringDakeruMcSleaz[Deleted User]Gdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,469
    edited July 2020
    Kyleran said:
    Howdy, I'm the guy referred to as the Discord Admin in this news article. Slap covered it pretty well, so I'd refer to his post. The reason we can't directly target SbS in this class action is due their lack of funds. Xsolla, on the other hand, has acted in direct defiance of their own ToS and consumer protection laws, both in the USA and internationally. We fully believe, as do our lawyers, that there's a solid case to be had against both parties.
    Honestly, I'm rooting for Xsolla to prevail as I see this as nothing more than lawyers and clients who knew better trying to take advantage of a loophole in the Xsolla TOS simply because they have deeper pockets.

    There's legal and there's right, this lawsuit is mostly the former, but definitely not the latter.






    That's pretty unfair.  It's not like Xsolla made a mistake in advertising. It wasn't a typo and it's not a "loophole".   They INTENTIONALLY added that in order to entice companies to use them and customers to feel comfortable with them.  They gained a benefit from that policy so if someone calls them on it I do not feel sorry for them.  They made a profit on each and every transaction they processed. 

    If they did NOT include that refund policy clear as day I would agree, but they did include it and it was an intentional act, not a mistake.  It's actually really shitty for the company to try and weasel out of it (after paying out the initial claims).

    While I agree with slapshot on general principal I am with Kyleran on this one. 

    I would say the vast majority knew the risks, and new or had plenty warning that Walsh was full of shit yet they stuck their heads in the sand and basically white knighted and acted like rabid bullies to anyone that dared naysay their savoir Walsh...so I can't feel very sympathetic and kind of feel like it's just karma at work here.


    Might seem harsh but consider I say this as someone with a couple hundred in ships and an original founder pack  for Star Citizen and I expect not much in return and will be happy if we get the single player game. I got no expectations really for the rest and if it flops welp oh well... I knew what I was getting into when backing a game that was in KS etc.

    People need to get it through their heads this is like flushing cash down the drain or at casino...once the money gone that's that...if you can't handle this concept you shouldn't be "backing" these kind of things.


    [Deleted User]

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,677
    Kyleran said:
    Howdy, I'm the guy referred to as the Discord Admin in this news article. Slap covered it pretty well, so I'd refer to his post. The reason we can't directly target SbS in this class action is due their lack of funds. Xsolla, on the other hand, has acted in direct defiance of their own ToS and consumer protection laws, both in the USA and internationally. We fully believe, as do our lawyers, that there's a solid case to be had against both parties.
    Honestly, I'm rooting for Xsolla to prevail as I see this as nothing more than lawyers and clients who knew better trying to take advantage of a loophole in the Xsolla TOS simply because they have deeper pockets.

    There's legal and there's right, this lawsuit is mostly the former, but definitely not the latter.






    That's pretty unfair.  It's not like Xsolla made a mistake in advertising. It wasn't a typo and it's not a "loophole".   They INTENTIONALLY added that in order to entice companies to use them and customers to feel comfortable with them.  They gained a benefit from that policy so if someone calls them on it I do not feel sorry for them.  They made a profit on each and every transaction they processed. 

    If they did NOT include that refund policy clear as day I would agree, but they did include it and it was an intentional act, not a mistake.  It's actually really shitty for the company to try and weasel out of it (after paying out the initial claims).
    Fairly certain the initial claims were paid out the funds they retained from SBS for a period of time in order to ensure they could cover normal refunds and charge backs.

    I also believe people purchased this stuff knew SBS was the ultimate recipient and to use a term so often applied to devs, this effort is nothing but a cash grab by  consumers who actually did know better, but now are trying to recover money from Xsolla for their own folly.

    You certainly wouldn't want me on that jury....   :D






    Asm0deus

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Howdy, I'm the guy referred to as the Discord Admin in this news article. Slap covered it pretty well, so I'd refer to his post. The reason we can't directly target SbS in this class action is due their lack of funds. Xsolla, on the other hand, has acted in direct defiance of their own ToS and consumer protection laws, both in the USA and internationally. We fully believe, as do our lawyers, that there's a solid case to be had against both parties.
    Honestly, I'm rooting for Xsolla to prevail as I see this as nothing more than lawyers and clients who knew better trying to take advantage of a loophole in the Xsolla TOS simply because they have deeper pockets.

    There's legal and there's right, this lawsuit is mostly the former, but definitely not the latter.






    That's pretty unfair.  It's not like Xsolla made a mistake in advertising. It wasn't a typo and it's not a "loophole".   They INTENTIONALLY added that in order to entice companies to use them and customers to feel comfortable with them.  They gained a benefit from that policy so if someone calls them on it I do not feel sorry for them.  They made a profit on each and every transaction they processed. 

    If they did NOT include that refund policy clear as day I would agree, but they did include it and it was an intentional act, not a mistake.  It's actually really shitty for the company to try and weasel out of it (after paying out the initial claims).
    Fairly certain the initial claims were paid out the funds they retained from SBS for a period of time in order to ensure they could cover normal refunds and charge backs.

    I also believe people purchased this stuff knew SBS was the ultimate recipient and to use a term so often applied to devs, this effort is nothing but a cash grab by  consumers who actually did know better, but now are trying to recover money from Xsolla for their own folly.

    You certainly wouldn't want me on that jury....   :D






    Here is how I see it:  This is a clause that Xsolla INTENTIONALLY added to their service in order to attract customers and make money.  

    This is a basic tenant that I really wonder why people struggle with.  I expect companies to do what they say they will do.  That goes for game developers and even for payment processing companies.   I know... it's shocking in this day and age. 

    Personally... you know that I believe most of these people that spent money on CoE are foolish. I have been clear and consistent about that from day 1. What Walsh sold could never even come close to being delivered with even 4 times the money he claimed he needed. And many of these people said pretty crappy things about me and argued vociferously how wrong I was.  I could sit back and watch them wallow in the realization of how wrong they were but I happen to believe they are RIGHT in this situation. Their own mistakes do not exclude other parties from their own responsibilities.  Xsolla was happily sucking in money for this same doomed project for the last few years.  Maybe THEY should have known better than to guarantee refunds for such a foolish endeavor.  Why do you hold the customers to a higher standard than the people actually making a profit from this fiasco?



    Wellspring[Deleted User]Gdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,677
    Rhoklaw said:
    Kyleran said:
    xion12121 said:
    It's good that they are going after SbS that makes sense they stole people's money and didn't deliver an end user product. However, Xsolla being a 3rd party provider I don't see how they are responsible? Xsolla would be like "paypal" a payment provider but not responsible for content. That's more like a middle man just doing 3rd party work. I think the lawsuit would have been better served going after SbS itself only.

    Xsolla has a refund policy which states they will refund for:

    "Pre-orders where no content has been delivered yet"


    As far as I know, this makes them different from other 3rd party payment processors, which do not make any guarantees on the delivery of video game pre-orders.


    Except that.... These purchases were not pre-orders, they were clearly stated on the SBS website as being non refundable donations to the cause. (After the initial 2 weeks period or what have you)

    Just another misguided attempt to collect money from the person with the deepest pockets....or one without holes in them at least.


    Despite what a company making a product calls their income. The legalities involved generally side with consumers. Whether you call them donations, investments or pre orders, it doesn't matter. A product was promised and not delivered, so requesting a refund is not unheard of, despite how it's worded.
    I'll have to remember that when I file for a refund of my church tithes if I don't find myself standing in front of the pearly gates.

    ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    Again...  this is not about Kickstarter and not about “donations”,  these are about transactions that were made post-Kickstarter that all parties (customer, SBS and Xsolla) have described as purchases, sales of goods, etc...

    We can discuss the whole Kickstarter “donation” stuff another time, but despite the intransigence of some... these transactions included in the lawsuit are indisputably sales of digital goods that were not delivered.




    Gdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,677
    edited July 2020
    Again...  this is not about Kickstarter and not about “donations”,  these are about transactions that were made post-Kickstarter that all parties (customer, SBS and Xsolla) have described as purchases, sales of goods, etc...

    We can discuss the whole Kickstarter “donation” stuff another time, but despite the intransigence of some... these transactions included in the lawsuit are indisputably sales of digital goods that were not delivered.




    Lest you forget, these purchases had a no refund policy after a certain period of time, at least on the SBS website.

    Buyer's clearly were aware of this, yet decided to go forward.

    Now, in a case of buyer's remorse, they wish to alter the terms of the deal they originally agreed to.

    And they hope to take it from Xsolla, which I can't support.

    You reap what you sow, and these folks deserve what they got.

    By the way, your final line about digital goods not being delivered, you meant not delivered yet, because Xsolla's lawyers are going to argue the game's still in progress, even it's creator says so.






    UngoodAsm0deus

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

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    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,532
    And no worries, we're completely prepared to sit on this case for years. It'll be nice to see one of these wannabe-devs face consequences for fraud.
    All other things aside, I want to wish you good fortune in your endeavor with this. Hopefully this will be the exact kind of thing that will prevent others from attempting to pull of a similar heist to what SBS did.
    Gdemami
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • DarkEvilHatredDarkEvilHatred Member UncommonPosts: 229
    I seriously doubt anyone speculating in the comments is a lawyer, so stop speculating shit you don't know and have no idea about and let the lawsuit run its course. We don't need you to give us your all-knowing, virtuous bullshit of speculation.

    I'm talking to everyone saying what they won't get, what they will get, blah blah blah. You have no frigging idea what's in their bank account and therefore have no real idea what will happen.
    IselinGdemami
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    So SBS lives to do it again
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,105
    Kyleran said:
    Again...  this is not about Kickstarter and not about “donations”,  these are about transactions that were made post-Kickstarter that all parties (customer, SBS and Xsolla) have described as purchases, sales of goods, etc...

    We can discuss the whole Kickstarter “donation” stuff another time, but despite the intransigence of some... these transactions included in the lawsuit are indisputably sales of digital goods that were not delivered.




    By the way, your final line about digital goods not being delivered, you meant not delivered yet, because Xsolla's lawyers are going to argue the game's still in progress, even it's creator says so.






    But why would that matter?  Xsolla’s stated policy was they could refund any time up until the goods were delivered.  Saying it’s still in progress just strengthens the plaintiffs case that they can refund...
    KyleranGdemami

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

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