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  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 21
    centkin said:
    Actually themeparks tend to lose a lot of the Explorers out there.  They do okay for Achievers and Killers, and may or may not do okay with Social.

    Me, if I'm playing my own character in an MMORPG, then I want my choices to matter.  I want to be able to write my own story as opposed to being a part of someone else's story.  Especially when my limited choices within that story have no effect on its eventual ending or the outcome of the game in general. 

    The vast majority of MMORPGs allow us to play the role of our Class, but they don't really allow us to play the role of our Character.  It doesn't matter if my character is good or evil (if my character is even allowed to be evil).  Nothing about who my character is, where my character is from, or why my character is doing all this (his motivations) truly matter in the end.


    Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
    Gdemami
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    Sovrath said:
    And inconveniences don't make things difficult?
    There are different types of difficult. Some are inherent to something you are focused on doing (e.g. hard boss with tricky mechanics) and some are additional roadblocks that may be added or not.

    A lot of you guys seem to miss the point that the whole discussion about difficulty in games is related to focus.

    Inconveniences are things that can be added to something trivial to make it more "difficult" simply because they delay you facing the actual focused event and dealing with its intrinsic difficulty. It can be just a cheap way to increase the apparent "difficulty" of something that really isn't all that difficult.

    I'd rather deal with intrinsically difficult content than have a bunch of cheesy inconveniences added to it. I want to focus on that.

    But that's just me.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    And inconveniences don't make things difficult?
    There are different types of difficult. Some are inherent to something you are focused on doing (e.g. hard boss with tricky mechanics) and some are additional roadblocks that may be added or not.

    A lot of you guys seem to miss the point that the whole discussion about difficulty in games is related to focus.

    Inconveniences are things that can be added to something trivial to make it more "difficult" simply because they delay you facing the actual focused event and dealing with its intrinsic difficulty. It can be just a cheap way to increase the apparent "difficulty" of something that really isn't all that difficult.

    I'd rather deal with intrinsically difficult content than have a bunch of cheesy inconveniences added to it. I want to focus on that.

    But that's just me.

    How about mobs with resistances and weaknesses?  Is that just an inconvenience?  Most MMORPGs these days allow players to kill fire elementals with fireballs.
    Iselin
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    And inconveniences don't make things difficult?
    There are different types of difficult. Some are inherent to something you are focused on doing (e.g. hard boss with tricky mechanics) and some are additional roadblocks that may be added or not.

    A lot of you guys seem to miss the point that the whole discussion about difficulty in games is related to focus.

    Inconveniences are things that can be added to something trivial to make it more "difficult" simply because they delay you facing the actual focused event and dealing with its intrinsic difficulty. It can be just a cheap way to increase the apparent "difficulty" of something that really isn't all that difficult.

    I'd rather deal with intrinsically difficult content than have a bunch of cheesy inconveniences added to it. I want to focus on that.

    But that's just me.

    How about mobs with resistances and weaknesses?  Is that just an inconvenience?  Most MMORPGs these days allow players to kill fire elementals with fireballs.
    I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that. Of course resistances would be part of the intrinsic fight against that critter.

    Death penalties that force a mini game of recovery on you or having to slow walk there and back uphill both ways wouldn't be.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,465
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    And inconveniences don't make things difficult?
    There are different types of difficult. Some are inherent to something you are focused on doing (e.g. hard boss with tricky mechanics) and some are additional roadblocks that may be added or not.

    A lot of you guys seem to miss the point that the whole discussion about difficulty in games is related to focus.

    Inconveniences are things that can be added to something trivial to make it more "difficult" simply because they delay you facing the actual focused event and dealing with its intrinsic difficulty. It can be just a cheap way to increase the apparent "difficulty" of something that really isn't all that difficult.

    I'd rather deal with intrinsically difficult content than have a bunch of cheesy inconveniences added to it. I want to focus on that.

    But that's just me.

    How about mobs with resistances and weaknesses?  Is that just an inconvenience?  Most MMORPGs these days allow players to kill fire elementals with fireballs.
    I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that. Of course resistances would be part of the intrinsic fight against that critter.

    Death penalties that force a mini game of recovery on you or having to slow walk there and back uphill both ways wouldn't be.
    All the above issues can be cleared up by "artistic" developers to "lean" out the game play...... All the above could be added as long as the fix is no big deal. 

    It's up to a good developer to lean problem areas without really pissing the player off. 
    Iselin
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 21
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    And inconveniences don't make things difficult?
    There are different types of difficult. Some are inherent to something you are focused on doing (e.g. hard boss with tricky mechanics) and some are additional roadblocks that may be added or not.

    A lot of you guys seem to miss the point that the whole discussion about difficulty in games is related to focus.

    Inconveniences are things that can be added to something trivial to make it more "difficult" simply because they delay you facing the actual focused event and dealing with its intrinsic difficulty. It can be just a cheap way to increase the apparent "difficulty" of something that really isn't all that difficult.

    I'd rather deal with intrinsically difficult content than have a bunch of cheesy inconveniences added to it. I want to focus on that.

    But that's just me.

    How about mobs with resistances and weaknesses?  Is that just an inconvenience?  Most MMORPGs these days allow players to kill fire elementals with fireballs.
    I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that. Of course resistances would be part of the intrinsic fight against that critter.

    Death penalties that force a mini game of recovery on you or having to slow walk there and back uphill both ways wouldn't be.
    Well, resistances and weaknesses don't necessarily make a mob more difficult to defeat.  They just require players to make different choices during a battle than they might make if the mob has no resistances or weaknesses.  Thereby somewhat increasing the complexity of the combat. 


    The Death Penalty

    This can be tied to Challenge, though it is perhaps more connected to the element of Risk vs Reward.  Am I risking a little time, a moderate amount of time, or a great amount of time if my character dies?  How valuable is the reward that my character will reap if I succeed and how much will my character (and perhaps I) suffer if I fail?

    The severity of a Death Penalty (or lack thereof) can then create (or eliminate) the need to make different or better choices, employ different or better tactics, and formulate different or better strategies in a game.  Though there are some other factors involved.  Such as an individual player's skill, knowledge, and experience in relation to a particular game.  The longer I have played a game, the easier it should become for me to make better choices which will lead to my character being rewarded (reward = positive consequence/result).  As opposed to making fooling choices or taking unnecessary risks which will bring negative consequences for my character.

    Some players complain about other factors such as lag or disconnects which may cause a death.  And so they think they shouldn't be penalized for dying in this case.  However, such occurrences will hopefully be rare.  And if they do happen, well, sometimes things happen which are beyond our control in the real world as well.  And so, perhaps we can as players, can simply resign ourselves to the fact that such occurrences, while hopefully rare, are not impossible in the virtual world either.


    Progression & Regression

    If I progress by winning or succeeding, why shouldn't I regress by losing or failing?

    In Risk, I gain a territory if I win a battle, while I forfeit a territory if I lose a battle.

    In a  side-scrolling platform game, I get to the next level if I live, but I have to start the level over again if I die.  Or I even have to start the game from the beginning if I run out of lives, and I'm not able to save.

    In a single player RPG, I have to start again from my last save point if I die.

    Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
    Gdemami
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,465
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    And inconveniences don't make things difficult?
    There are different types of difficult. Some are inherent to something you are focused on doing (e.g. hard boss with tricky mechanics) and some are additional roadblocks that may be added or not.

    A lot of you guys seem to miss the point that the whole discussion about difficulty in games is related to focus.

    Inconveniences are things that can be added to something trivial to make it more "difficult" simply because they delay you facing the actual focused event and dealing with its intrinsic difficulty. It can be just a cheap way to increase the apparent "difficulty" of something that really isn't all that difficult.

    I'd rather deal with intrinsically difficult content than have a bunch of cheesy inconveniences added to it. I want to focus on that.

    But that's just me.

    How about mobs with resistances and weaknesses?  Is that just an inconvenience?  Most MMORPGs these days allow players to kill fire elementals with fireballs.
    I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that. Of course resistances would be part of the intrinsic fight against that critter.

    Death penalties that force a mini game of recovery on you or having to slow walk there and back uphill both ways wouldn't be.
      Well, resistances and weaknesses don't necessarily make a mob more difficult to defeat.  They just require players to make different choices during a battle than they might make if the mob has no resistances or weaknesses.  Thereby somewhat increasing the complexity of the combat. 


    The Death Penalty

    This can be tied to Challenge, though it is perhaps more connected to the element of Risk vs Reward.  Am I risking a little time, a moderate amount of time, or a great amount of time if my character dies?  How valuable is the reward that my character will reap if I succeed and how much will my character (and perhaps I) suffer if I fail?

    The severity of a Death Penalty (or lack thereof) can then create (or eliminate) the need to make different or better choices, employ different or better tactics, and formulate different or better strategies in a game.  Though there are some other factors involved.  Such as an individual player's skill, knowledge, and experience in relation to a particular game.  The longer I have played a game, the easier it should become for me to make better choices which will lead to my character being rewarded (reward = positive consequence).  As opposed to making fooling choices or taking unnecessary risks which will bring negative consequences for my character.

    Some players complain about other factors such as lag or disconnects which may cause a death.  And so they think they shouldn't be penalized for dying in this case.  However, such occurrences will hopefully be rare.  And if they do happen, well, sometimes things happen which are beyond our control in the real world as well.  And so, perhaps we can as players, can simply resign ourselves to the fact that such occurrences, while hopefully rare, are not impossible in the virtual world either.


    Progression & Regression

    If I progress by winning or succeeding, why shouldn't I regress by losing or failing?

    In Risk, I gain a territory if I win a battle, while I forfeit a territory if I lose a battle.

    In side-scrolling platform game, I get to the next level if I live, but I have to start the level over again if I die.  Or I even have the start the game from the beginning if I run out of lives, and I'm not able to save.

    In a single player RPG, I have to start again from my last save point if I die.

    Some good points here. 

    However this would have to come from a good artistic developer.

    But instead mmorpgs solve all issues by making the game easy, therefore none of this matters.... They take the easy road. 
    Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    And inconveniences don't make things difficult?
    There are different types of difficult. Some are inherent to something you are focused on doing (e.g. hard boss with tricky mechanics) and some are additional roadblocks that may be added or not.

    A lot of you guys seem to miss the point that the whole discussion about difficulty in games is related to focus.

    Inconveniences are things that can be added to something trivial to make it more "difficult" simply because they delay you facing the actual focused event and dealing with its intrinsic difficulty. It can be just a cheap way to increase the apparent "difficulty" of something that really isn't all that difficult.

    I'd rather deal with intrinsically difficult content than have a bunch of cheesy inconveniences added to it. I want to focus on that.

    But that's just me.

    How about mobs with resistances and weaknesses?  Is that just an inconvenience?  Most MMORPGs these days allow players to kill fire elementals with fireballs.
    I have no idea what point you're trying to make with that. Of course resistances would be part of the intrinsic fight against that critter.

    Death penalties that force a mini game of recovery on you or having to slow walk there and back uphill both ways wouldn't be.
    All the above issues can be cleared up by "artistic" developers to "lean" out the game play...... All the above could be added as long as the fix is no big deal. 

    It's up to a good developer to lean problem areas without really pissing the player off. 
    Agreed but let's not forget that adding flavor and other fun systems doesn't really have anything to do with how easy or difficult an individual task is. Doing a parkour puzzle has its own level of difficulty by design.

    Being able to fast travel to that puzzle vs. having to walk there does not impact the parkour event's inherent difficulty in any way. It makes the game either faster or slower in how you get to the actual content you're interested in and some like to equate slower with more difficult game play overall. I don't. It's just tedious if what I want to do is the jumping puzzle.

    A lot of the so called dummying down in current games vs. old ones is nothing more than focusing the experience on the fun things more and getting rid of annoyances and inconveniences that weren't so much fun.

    Even though I'm an old fart I don't share the mmorpg.com consensus opinion that those old games with all their quirky inconveniences were better. I just see them as rudimentary first steps and don't glorify them like many of you do.

    I don't particularly like current WOW but I liked WOW classic even less. Give me a WOW stuck in time at the WotLK expansion and I'm good. I'd play that with all of its flying and LFG tools, etc.




     
    lahnmirArglebargle
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 21
    Iselin said:

    Agreed but let's not forget that adding flavor and other fun systems doesn't really have anything to do with how easy or difficult an individual task is. Doing a parkour puzzle has its own level of difficulty by design.

    Being able to fast travel to that puzzle vs. having to walk there does not impact the parkour event's inherent difficulty in any way. It makes the game either faster or slower in how you get to the actual content you're interested in and some like to equate slower with more difficult game play overall. I don't. It's just tedious if what I want to do is the jumping puzzle.

    A lot of the so called dummying down in current games vs. old ones is nothing more than focusing the experience on the fun things more and getting rid of annoyances and inconveniences that weren't so much fun.

    Even though I'm an old fart I don't share the mmorpg.com consensus opinion that those old games with all their quirky inconveniences were better. I just see them as rudimentary first steps and don't glorify them like many of you do.

    I don't particularly like current WOW but I liked WOW classic even less. Give me a WOW stuck in time at the WotLK expansion and I'm good. I'd play that with all of its flying and LFG tools, etc.




     
    But what if I encounter something even more fun or interesting during my journey to my intended destination?  What if I meet someone along the way?  What if I save a damsel in distress on my way to storming a castle?

    Also, if I know that doing something is dangerous, and the consequences of failure are dire, I might be more motivated to seek aid.  Which is not a bad thing in a game (hopefully) full of other players.  I might even find someone who wants to do the same thing I planned on doing anyway.  And then we both benefit.  We might even become friends along the way.

    Gdemamidelete5230
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    Iselin said:

    Agreed but let's not forget that adding flavor and other fun systems doesn't really have anything to do with how easy or difficult an individual task is. Doing a parkour puzzle has its own level of difficulty by design.

    Being able to fast travel to that puzzle vs. having to walk there does not impact the parkour event's inherent difficulty in any way. It makes the game either faster or slower in how you get to the actual content you're interested in and some like to equate slower with more difficult game play overall. I don't. It's just tedious if what I want to do is the jumping puzzle.

    A lot of the so called dummying down in current games vs. old ones is nothing more than focusing the experience on the fun things more and getting rid of annoyances and inconveniences that weren't so much fun.

    Even though I'm an old fart I don't share the mmorpg.com consensus opinion that those old games with all their quirky inconveniences were better. I just see them as rudimentary first steps and don't glorify them like many of you do.

    I don't particularly like current WOW but I liked WOW classic even less. Give me a WOW stuck in time at the WotLK expansion and I'm good. I'd play that with all of its flying and LFG tools, etc.




     
    But what if I encounter something even more fun or interesting during my journey to my intended destination?  What if I meet someone along the way?  What if I save a damsel in distress on my way to storming a castle?

    Also, if I know that doing something is dangerous, and the consequences of failure are dire, I might be more motivated to seek aid.  Which is not a bad thing in a game (hopefully) full of other players.  I might even find someone who wants to do the same thing I planned on doing anyway.  And then we both benefit.  We might even become friends along the way.

    I was talking about difficulty. Focus now :)
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,530
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:

    Agreed but let's not forget that adding flavor and other fun systems doesn't really have anything to do with how easy or difficult an individual task is. Doing a parkour puzzle has its own level of difficulty by design.

    Being able to fast travel to that puzzle vs. having to walk there does not impact the parkour event's inherent difficulty in any way. It makes the game either faster or slower in how you get to the actual content you're interested in and some like to equate slower with more difficult game play overall. I don't. It's just tedious if what I want to do is the jumping puzzle.

    A lot of the so called dummying down in current games vs. old ones is nothing more than focusing the experience on the fun things more and getting rid of annoyances and inconveniences that weren't so much fun.

    Even though I'm an old fart I don't share the mmorpg.com consensus opinion that those old games with all their quirky inconveniences were better. I just see them as rudimentary first steps and don't glorify them like many of you do.

    I don't particularly like current WOW but I liked WOW classic even less. Give me a WOW stuck in time at the WotLK expansion and I'm good. I'd play that with all of its flying and LFG tools, etc.




     
    But what if I encounter something even more fun or interesting during my journey to my intended destination?  What if I meet someone along the way?  What if I save a damsel in distress on my way to storming a castle?

    Also, if I know that doing something is dangerous, and the consequences of failure are dire, I might be more motivated to seek aid.  Which is not a bad thing in a game (hopefully) full of other players.  I might even find someone who wants to do the same thing I planned on doing anyway.  And then we both benefit.  We might even become friends along the way.

    I was talking about difficulty. Focus now :)
    Perhaps focussing IS the difficulty  ;)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Iselin
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 21
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:

    Agreed but let's not forget that adding flavor and other fun systems doesn't really have anything to do with how easy or difficult an individual task is. Doing a parkour puzzle has its own level of difficulty by design.

    Being able to fast travel to that puzzle vs. having to walk there does not impact the parkour event's inherent difficulty in any way. It makes the game either faster or slower in how you get to the actual content you're interested in and some like to equate slower with more difficult game play overall. I don't. It's just tedious if what I want to do is the jumping puzzle.

    A lot of the so called dummying down in current games vs. old ones is nothing more than focusing the experience on the fun things more and getting rid of annoyances and inconveniences that weren't so much fun.

    Even though I'm an old fart I don't share the mmorpg.com consensus opinion that those old games with all their quirky inconveniences were better. I just see them as rudimentary first steps and don't glorify them like many of you do.

    I don't particularly like current WOW but I liked WOW classic even less. Give me a WOW stuck in time at the WotLK expansion and I'm good. I'd play that with all of its flying and LFG tools, etc.




     
    But what if I encounter something even more fun or interesting during my journey to my intended destination?  What if I meet someone along the way?  What if I save a damsel in distress on my way to storming a castle?

    Also, if I know that doing something is dangerous, and the consequences of failure are dire, I might be more motivated to seek aid.  Which is not a bad thing in a game (hopefully) full of other players.  I might even find someone who wants to do the same thing I planned on doing anyway.  And then we both benefit.  We might even become friends along the way.

    I was talking about difficulty. Focus now :)

    Okay, well, while progressing more slowly (due to the possibility of regression via a death penalty) might not make the game intrinsically more difficult, but it may necessitate that I spend more time in a certain area.  Thereby increasing the chance that I will encounter other players on a more frequent basis.  And since we may be tired of having to pay our XP debt again, it may motivate us to join forces in order to decrease the amount of time we have to spend doing it.  Perhaps we may even socialize with each other during this time.

    Also, did you read what I wrote about how the Death Penalty is tied to Risk vs Reward?
    Gdemamidelete5230
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311

    Also, did you read what I wrote about how the Death Penalty is tied to Risk vs Reward?
    Yes. I play permadeath HC mode in Diablo every season. I know all about that. Just like I know that it's neither harder nor easier than regular mode :)
    Gdemami
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    lahnmir said:
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:

    Agreed but let's not forget that adding flavor and other fun systems doesn't really have anything to do with how easy or difficult an individual task is. Doing a parkour puzzle has its own level of difficulty by design.

    Being able to fast travel to that puzzle vs. having to walk there does not impact the parkour event's inherent difficulty in any way. It makes the game either faster or slower in how you get to the actual content you're interested in and some like to equate slower with more difficult game play overall. I don't. It's just tedious if what I want to do is the jumping puzzle.

    A lot of the so called dummying down in current games vs. old ones is nothing more than focusing the experience on the fun things more and getting rid of annoyances and inconveniences that weren't so much fun.

    Even though I'm an old fart I don't share the mmorpg.com consensus opinion that those old games with all their quirky inconveniences were better. I just see them as rudimentary first steps and don't glorify them like many of you do.

    I don't particularly like current WOW but I liked WOW classic even less. Give me a WOW stuck in time at the WotLK expansion and I'm good. I'd play that with all of its flying and LFG tools, etc.




     
    But what if I encounter something even more fun or interesting during my journey to my intended destination?  What if I meet someone along the way?  What if I save a damsel in distress on my way to storming a castle?

    Also, if I know that doing something is dangerous, and the consequences of failure are dire, I might be more motivated to seek aid.  Which is not a bad thing in a game (hopefully) full of other players.  I might even find someone who wants to do the same thing I planned on doing anyway.  And then we both benefit.  We might even become friends along the way.

    I was talking about difficulty. Focus now :)
    Perhaps focussing IS the difficulty  ;)

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir





    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Iselin said:

    Also, did you read what I wrote about how the Death Penalty is tied to Risk vs Reward?
    Yes. I play permadeath HC mode in Diablo every season. I know all about that. Just like I know that it's neither harder nor easier than regular mode :)

    But you don't think that having more tangible Risk vs Reward in an MMORPG will make it more interesting?
    Gdemami
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    Iselin said:

    Also, did you read what I wrote about how the Death Penalty is tied to Risk vs Reward?
    Yes. I play permadeath HC mode in Diablo every season. I know all about that. Just like I know that it's neither harder nor easier than regular mode :)

    But you don't think that having more tangible Risk vs Reward in an MMORPG will make it more interesting?
    It could or it could not. That's like asking if having 3-headed Ettins in an MMO would make it more interesting.

    I can think of many other things that have a much better chance to make an MMO more interesting. Like having all the mobs get together and decide to bring the fight to you and attack the villages and cities. THAT would definitely make it more interesting.
    Gdemami
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:

    Also, did you read what I wrote about how the Death Penalty is tied to Risk vs Reward?
    Yes. I play permadeath HC mode in Diablo every season. I know all about that. Just like I know that it's neither harder nor easier than regular mode :)

    But you don't think that having more tangible Risk vs Reward in an MMORPG will make it more interesting?
    It could or it could not. That's like asking if having 3-headed Ettins in an MMO would make it more interesting.

    I can think of many other things that have a much better chance to make an MMO more interesting. Like having all the mobs get together and decide to bring the fight to you and attack the villages and cities. THAT would definitely make it more interesting.

    I don't see how having 3-headed Ettins in an MMO would increase the Risk vs having 2-headed Ettins.  Also, Ettins only have 2 heads.



    Having mobs gather together to attack villages and cities would be interesting.  But only if they actually had a chance of occupying and/or destroying the villages and cities.

    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,311
    edited May 21
    Iselin said:
    Iselin said:

    Also, did you read what I wrote about how the Death Penalty is tied to Risk vs Reward?
    Yes. I play permadeath HC mode in Diablo every season. I know all about that. Just like I know that it's neither harder nor easier than regular mode :)

    But you don't think that having more tangible Risk vs Reward in an MMORPG will make it more interesting?
    It could or it could not. That's like asking if having 3-headed Ettins in an MMO would make it more interesting.

    I can think of many other things that have a much better chance to make an MMO more interesting. Like having all the mobs get together and decide to bring the fight to you and attack the villages and cities. THAT would definitely make it more interesting.

    I don't see how having 3-headed Ettins in an MMO would increase the Risk vs having 2-headed Ettins.  Also, Ettins only have 2 heads.



    Having mobs gather together to attack villages and cities would be interesting.  But only if they actually had a chance of occupying and/or destroying the villages and cities.

    What? Ettins can't have mutations? A 3 headed one might be more interesting than the run of the mill 2-headed ones. Probably surlier too since he was probably teased a lot as a child.

    In Rift mobs did occupy villages and quest hubs. Can't say I ever saw an invasion actually trash a city before the players rallied to defend it but it might have happened.
    Gdemami
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  • Ancient_ExileAncient_Exile Member RarePosts: 1,303
    edited May 21
    Iselin said:

    What? Ettins can't have mutations? A 3 headed one might be more interesting than the run of the mill 2-headed ones. Probably surlier too since he was probably teased a lot as a child.

    In Rift mobs did occupy villages and quest hubs. Can't say I ever saw an invasion actually trash a city before the players rallied to defend it but it might have happened.
    The other Ettins would probably kill it.

    Are you saying mobs no longer occupy villages and quest hubs in Rift?

    Walled cities would hopefully have enough NPC guards and soldiers to hold off a mob assault for awhile, but that would depend on the size of the mob force that was attacking. 

    An MMORPG that was designed around the ability for PCs, NPCs, and mobs to build, repair, upgrade, attack, besiege, occupy, loot, and/or raze settlements (villages, towns, forts, castles, and cities) would certainly be interesting.

    Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
    "If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."


    "Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."


    (Note:  If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Because difficulty in a game is an illusion. Developers can set up situations that can demand your time, hand-eye coordination or memorizing patterns. None really matters.

    If i want a real challenge, i work. I solve actual intellectual problems. Games are just games. There is no real right or wrong or actual challenge. It is about having fun doing whatever that provides the illusion of something worthwhile.


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