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Very Interesting Article on the Death Penalty in MMORPGs
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Ok.. Alright.. maybe this is a rare chance for me to figure out how you think, just for future sight into some of your posts.
So, in your example above, what do you think "Want" is, Supply or Demand?
We are talking about rarity - uneven numerical stat distribution of an item, you are talking about a system with unified numerical stat distribution, a system where concept of rarity isn't applicapable and try to argue from that point.
That is not empirical. Nothing is in isolation. I understand the concept and pure definition of rare but if you're comparing two games Everquest and UO that isn't the only consideration.
What makes obtaining an item difficult isn't just a mathematical consideration. It should take into consideration that you might need a whole raid and a combination of classes to obtain something. That certain mobs only spawn once in a whole day at times and even then their drop rate will perhaps result in it not dropping at all.
Plus unfortunately there has been an attempt to show 'my game is better than yours' here and I might initially too have been guilty of that until @Scorchien explained how UO loot worked.
In the end I realised that loot in UO based on the loot table is indeed if you just take into account the way the item is unique is indeed rarer in UO but if you take into consideration that you have to belong to a guild capable of breaking into a Plane in Everquest then that might make the loot in Everquest while less rare harder to obtain for the average player.
While @Scorchien said that he never felt the sting of the death penalty in Everquest as much as he did in UO at the end of the day it is up to the individual player and their own attachment to the items they obtained that makes the death penalty sting. If as a player you feel that the items loss is really hard to bear then the death penalty has an impact on you.
Then I went on to explain how I had spent literally months collecting what I had. Then he talked about unique loot in UO that once lost is lost for good.
I guess this was how the question on what is unique and rare became a topic of discussion.
However like I pointed out making these mathematical arguments isn't actually what makes the death penalty effective, it is how each individual player accesses their loss that makes it so. I might argue further that since @Scorchien is relatively certain when he dies he will lose those items, it also places less expectation that he will get it back making the death penalty less painful than what I went through knowing I had 24 hours to get it back as I expected to be able to get it back and not succeeding to get it back would have destroyed me.
What this taught me above all else is that you cannot in all honesty compare UO and Everquest death penalties because there are some fundamental differences.
Definition of rare
(Entry 1 of 2)
rare
adjective (2)Definition of rare (Entry 2 of 2)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Isn't that why we compare, though? Each player has their preferences and in each individual mind is a "better/worse" scenario
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I was following a topic of rarity and RNG as a variant for uneven distribution - a droped item coming in variants of +1, +2, +3 of the same attribute, Ungood on the other hand follows his own narrative of a system where items come with same numerical value, ie +1 but they vary in attribute(ie. strength, dexterity or wisdom). In such system, the concept of rarity and RNG does not exists, of course, and as such it is completely off-topic.
In EQ you lost experience that required time to gain back and time to get your equipment back. Unless you just didn't care you never actually lost your equipment, but it could potentially take a lot of time to get it back (though not as much as the original acquisition).
In UO you lost your equipment and if you were red you lost stats. You were lucky to get it back and likely wouldn't so you would have to consider the amount of time it takes to farm back the same equipment you lost + returning stats (I can't comment on the amount of time that took as I don't know).
So then you have to decide for yourself which you would prefer to do over and over again in the event of a death. Farm your gear and stats back or farm your experience back. The one you would least likely want could be considered the most harsh, IMO.
im pretty sure Micheal Jordan is rare
im pretty sure Tiger Woods is rare
im pretty sure Mike Tyson is rare
So definitely the time that went into getting the items have to be factored in.