I play GW2 off and on, and it had nothing to do with raids. I feel bad for ANet because I feel GW2 has gotten pretty stale and they keep messing with the balance in ways that hurt classes I used to enjoy.
I don't care about raids, I never got into them in GW2 or any other game really. They never interest me.
The ONLY reason I don't play GW2 is because once you get to group PvE content of any kind any sort of class identity goes out the window and everyone becomes a melee dps.
wrong I was ranged dps, with for some reason arena net nerfed after year I quit the game, never see so much hate for rifle warriors as arena net had, almost no one did use then, the one who did only wanted to abuse the burst skill on WvW
I play GW2 off and on, and it had nothing to do with raids. I feel bad for ANet because I feel GW2 has gotten pretty stale and they keep messing with the balance in ways that hurt classes I used to enjoy.
I don't care about raids, I never got into them in GW2 or any other game really. They never interest me.
The ONLY reason I don't play GW2 is because once you get to group PvE content of any kind any sort of class identity goes out the window and everyone becomes a melee dps.
There were ranged dps, but these were primarily condi dps.
Necromancers being the main example. Though the (justified but painful) Epidemic nerfs really did hurt them in a big way.
You've both just proven my point.
Oh, I wasn't necessarily even arguing your point. Not really. Hell, Raids are the only place where tanks and supports even serve a function, and it is sad.
I mean, my entire reason for leaving the game is that it has all of the depth of a puddle, while claiming to be everything people loved about the ocean before it in an open world.
That was poorly phrased on my part. Reads like a retort rather than just using your examples as further justification. Shame too, since I am interested in the game otherwise. It's only one knock, but it's a no-go for me
GW2 raids are not the sort of things Raiders are looking for. The whole Group dynamic is all wrong in GW2 and don't fit the Raid style, it hardly fit Group content in my opinion.
GW2 wasn't designed for group content, they patch it up during the years because they understood they were missing a big chunk of players who liked group content. But to me, group content (combat specifically) never felt right in GW2.
I also think that most player in GW2 never tried raiding in this game. But most players do play fractals or WvW though.
As for group content feeling wrong. I guess it can feel that way if you expect the holy trinity setup. This is never what GW2 was about. Even GW1(it had healers, but no aggro magnet tanks) wasn't. But high level fractals, structured group pvp and raids definately require good group coordination.
I agree though that raids never felt right in GW2. Imo that was just the influence of an influx of new devs that had no ties with GW1. But it never got popular like in WoW for example.
Well, Ungood, as one of the clear targets, I'm going to say this in terms that I hope you will understand and take no issue with.
My attachment to Guild Wars 2 had nothing to do with raids, and my disenfranchisement with Guild Wars has nothing to do with raids.
What I have always wanted from the game was intellectual depth like its predecessor had in droves. Hundreds of skills, flexible builds, and a real need to adapt to the game on an RPG level rather than just a mechanical/reflexive level. I thought that the especs offered with the expansions were a step in the right direction, but once it became clear that the game would never become what I loved the franchise for, I quit my raid team and clocked out.
You claim betrayal because they moved away from your more casual-only approach to content in your eyes. The real betrayal happened right from the start - alienating the fans of their original game while putting that original game into maintenance mode.
As an old gw1 and current (although sporadically) gw2 player this is the only point in this thread that resonates with me: I feel the shallowness. In gw1 I used to circle my alts quite often, I had a slot that I used for pvp characters to try different classes for pvp. Nowadays I have few alts but I rarely circle them, I don't change builds on my character. This is my major complain maybe, along with a story that doesn't resonate much with me maybe.
I spend most of my time in the original content. It's almost like two different games.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Imo raiding is just learning to jump through hoops in a squad instead of a simple zerg 'n spank (GW2's variation on tank 'n spank ).
Anyway, raiding doesn't have to be harder then regular content in a game. There are no rules for this. But imo people who tend ask for raids prefer it to be harder content.
This does not mean however that there is no place for an easy mode version of the same raids. Just for people who want to see that content once, to enjoy the story. It would just have lesser rewards.
You could even argue that a lot of players raid all the time in GW2 without realising it. For some achievements in the meta events or for world bosses in you get raid style coordinated jumping through hoops tactics that are a lot like raiding. Just less difficult.
I am glad for strike missions anyway. Imo a great middle ground.
Well, Ungood, as one of the clear targets, I'm going to say this in terms that I hope you will understand and take no issue with.
Sorry @Aeander but like everyone else that thought I was talking about them, you were not a target either, my post was brought up due to the post about the Elist Raid Party event that the founder and organizer was leaving GW2 for other games.
I felt bed for Anet, as they put in all this effort to build this content for a small fraction of their player base, and not only does it fail to grow that fraction, it fails to retain what little they had and alienated other demographics as well.
To be honest, tho, the more I look at it, it's Mike O's fault for not really having a long term plan for a long term game, it became evident that they were just throwing out whatever, with little to no real thought of the impact to the game as time went on.
But then again, if you look at Anet, I wager just like they did with GW1, they planned to milk the cash cow for all they could as fast as they could, then disable the game, and make a GW3, riding on the goodwill and success of GW2.
And given their talk about losing half their staff that was working on "other projects" it looks like that was in fact exactly their plan.
In any case, since most (if not all) the original staff is off to other projects, I just feel bad now for those that have inherited the mess.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Never cared about raiding in mmorpgs so it doesn't effect me in GW2 either. It still is my favorite mmorpg since beta because it's the one game that offers the content i consume in mmorpgs most differently. I hope a new expansion or a sequel improves whatever needs improvement and adds whatever needs to be added to make it better without turning it into another wow clone.
EDIT: I think what people hated the most about GW2 was not having the trinity roles for dungeons. I'm glad it didn't have it because me and my friends could find different ways to play our classes instead of shutting our brains down and just tank n spank everything. However, if they were to add a trinity i hope it's tied to the armor type and not the class. Every class can still do any build as it is today, but dedicated trinity roles would depend on armor type.
Never cared about raiding in mmorpgs so it doesn't effect me in GW2 either. It still is my favorite mmorpg since beta because it's the one game that offers the content i consume in mmorpgs most differently. I hope a new expansion or a sequel improves whatever needs improvement and adds whatever needs to be added to make it better without turning it into another wow clone.
EDIT: I think what people hated the most about GW2 was not having the trinity roles for dungeons. I'm glad it didn't have it because me and my friends could find different ways to play our classes instead of shutting our brains down and just tank n spank everything. However, if they were to add a trinity i hope it's tied to the armor type and not the class. Every class can still do any build as it is today, but dedicated trinity roles would depend on armor type.
Most of what you said rings with me as well, but we are different kinds of players. I will play an MMO (or any game really) till I hit a dead end, a point where I cannot progress further, once I hit that wall, the game dies for me, as I have already gotten as high as I ever will.
With GW2, and the introduction of Raids, that was my personal dead end point, I was never going to do them, as I lack pairtence and other character qualities, to deal with 9 other people in a fixed stagnant raiding group to get a quest done, and thus the game had reached an end point for me, so there was no desire to grind for the sake of grind.
As it stands, by their income numbers, I was not alone in this style of play or approach in playing MMO's, and it seemed this was a bigger thing for GW2 than some other games, like WoW, I wager because GW2 had already built several years of reputation among a demographic that they were going to do things "Differently" and then, well, you know, on a whim they changed their minds, and revamped the whole game to cater to players that wanted roles and raids.
They did it to themselves, but, still, you gotta feel a little bad for someone when you see them shoot themselves in the foot.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I've played GW2 since release, and GW1 before that. I still play and enjoy both games; they are, indeed, quite different from each other. GW2 continues to be my favorite, and is well-populated, with enjoyable new content. The dynamic events in the maps mean there's always something to do with other players, or just to roam and solo around.
I like that they made difficult content for those that really wanted it, and it continues to be played. Yet there's still the ongoing story, WvW, PvP, Fractals, and Dungeons for those who enjoy that, as I do. I like that there's no trinity, given the times I've been in a dungeon queue in other games waiting for a tank or a healer. I like how the combat works better than other games I'm playing.
I don't feel bad for GW2, I and many others are simply enjoying the game's many aspects.
Raids is maybe the worst terminology ever mentioned in mmorpg's,i detest the mention of the term. A Raid is almost always an instance "anti mmo",it alienates a lot of players who cannot get a pile of players together.
A role playing game should have ideals laid out to live in a plausible world ,it should feel like we are living a life within that world.Raids are NOT a living part of a world,they are an idea of "elitism",an idea to attain non plausible loot,example some sword that the foe never had on them in the first place,the loot items seem to magically appear,more like computer code than a realistic/plausible happening. Developers might cater to whatever makes them money or keeps players around,that does not mean they are making a quality MMO+RPG,they are instead just making systems that are good at baiting in players to stick around. "Systems" should be designed to support the game world,to add a layer of realism to a plausible world,they should never appear as a computer coded system and that is the same mistake or bad design almost all devs keep following.
They keep making bad designs because like i keep saying,this is about numbers...money and NOT about a HQ mmorpg.The same bad philosophy behind game design is in ALL genres,everything is catered to money,i honestly feel a high majority of gamer's don't even know why they play certain games,they simply see it as popular or an ideal game to stream and get followers or they heard some FN player made off with 2 million so now everyone's interest has peaked.
When i seek out a certain type of game in a genre,i do not let side attractions or marketing or gimmicks bait me in,i THINK on my own behalf without influence.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
@Nepheth You obviously remember me, and still seem to have massive butthurt over it.. sadly.. I don't remember you, at all.
Thanks for the Image.. I feel like I am JJJ in this exchange.
Of course you don't remember me because I'm a normal person who knows what is important and what is not and knows when to let go things and move on. I didn't even argue with you seriously before. I just put my 2 cents in and moved on unlike you. But you argued with numerous people and got banned for it. And that's why it is pretty normal for me to remember a problematic person like you unfortunately. Calling me a butthurt while you can't even let go a stupid comment on an irrelevant thread and create another thread for it... I have no words... If you can't even let go a stupid game after all these years I can't even imagine how hard it is for you to live while obsessing even the smallest things in life. Well I'm really sorry for you...
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Comments
The whole Group dynamic is all wrong in GW2 and don't fit the Raid style, it hardly fit Group content in my opinion.
GW2 wasn't designed for group content, they patch it up during the years because they understood they were missing a big chunk of players who liked group content.
But to me, group content (combat specifically) never felt right in GW2.
That was GW2's greatest problem. Remember the manifesto?
"I swung a sword. I swung a sword again. Hey! I swung a sword again. In GW2 we just don't want you to grind."
That was a great idea.
You can always don't do it.
This is my major complain maybe, along with a story that doesn't resonate much with me maybe.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I felt bed for Anet, as they put in all this effort to build this content for a small fraction of their player base, and not only does it fail to grow that fraction, it fails to retain what little they had and alienated other demographics as well.
To be honest, tho, the more I look at it, it's Mike O's fault for not really having a long term plan for a long term game, it became evident that they were just throwing out whatever, with little to no real thought of the impact to the game as time went on.
But then again, if you look at Anet, I wager just like they did with GW1, they planned to milk the cash cow for all they could as fast as they could, then disable the game, and make a GW3, riding on the goodwill and success of GW2.
And given their talk about losing half their staff that was working on "other projects" it looks like that was in fact exactly their plan.
In any case, since most (if not all) the original staff is off to other projects, I just feel bad now for those that have inherited the mess.
We tried to pretend that was just some weird glitch in the matrix; or like some seepage from another dimension where they did things differently.
With GW2, and the introduction of Raids, that was my personal dead end point, I was never going to do them, as I lack pairtence and other character qualities, to deal with 9 other people in a fixed stagnant raiding group to get a quest done, and thus the game had reached an end point for me, so there was no desire to grind for the sake of grind.
As it stands, by their income numbers, I was not alone in this style of play or approach in playing MMO's, and it seemed this was a bigger thing for GW2 than some other games, like WoW, I wager because GW2 had already built several years of reputation among a demographic that they were going to do things "Differently" and then, well, you know, on a whim they changed their minds, and revamped the whole game to cater to players that wanted roles and raids.
They did it to themselves, but, still, you gotta feel a little bad for someone when you see them shoot themselves in the foot.
I like that they made difficult content for those that really wanted it, and it continues to be played. Yet there's still the ongoing story, WvW, PvP, Fractals, and Dungeons for those who enjoy that, as I do. I like that there's no trinity, given the times I've been in a dungeon queue in other games waiting for a tank or a healer. I like how the combat works better than other games I'm playing.
I don't feel bad for GW2, I and many others are simply enjoying the game's many aspects.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
If I am not doing group play on the 2nd or 3rd day, the game is over. Not playing mmos to solo on my own.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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