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How would you innovate on stagnant genres - ARPGs/Diablo-likes
Aeander
Member LegendaryPosts: 7,836
On to the next thread. For me, this one is difficult, because unlike the two prior genres, ARPGs are very much a genre that I'm still attached to.
I think ARPGs suffer from a general mindset of "if it aint broke, don't fix it," which results in a deluge of good but largely disposable games. It's a similar situation to the MOBA genre, but with more niche and indie financial success stories because these games didn't immediately establish f2p as the end-all-be-all standard for the entire genre like MOBAs did.
Do they need fixing? Not really. But something new and distinct would be appreciated. They also tend to lag behind the industry from a graphical and polish standpoint.
My idea focuses on combining existing strengths
Potentially unpopular opinion, but ARPGs don't really do a good job of making both the long term progression and the short term/low level gameplay experience satisfying. Path of Exile is an excellent example of compelling long term progression, but it's early game experience is slow and boring. Diablo 3's polished combat, fast skill unlocks, and runes make the early game immediately fun, but it's progression isn't as deep in the long term.
I think something with combat on par with or better than Diablo 3, with a steady stream of skill unlocks, a rune system for immediately tangible customization, and a deep skill web for long term customization is the best of both worlds.
To preface my next point, let me establish that Diablo-like games and Dynasty Warriors games have a lot in common. They both rely on rapid kills to create a sense of power fantasy. Both of these genres have something the other sorely needs. Dynasty Warriors needs a more compelling loot treadmill akin to a Diablo-like, while Diablo-likes could really benefit from a Warriors-esque rudimentary combo system.
In a tangible sense, if each basic attack skill in an ARPG had branching combos with light and heavy attacks (performed by left and right click by default), a lot more combat variety could be achieved. Visually, this would be represented by the skill icon flipping like a Guild Wars 2 chain skill. A light attack (left click) would continue the chain, while a heavy attack (right click) would unleash a unique animation and high damage based on when in the chain it was used, and the chain will be reset. We could take this a step further with a dedicated "ultimate" slot, which has its own resource bar and can only be used when full, similar to a Warriors Musuo attack.
Finally, I think the genre generally has a bad case of preset character syndrome. Grim Dawn offers no visually variety in your base character at all. Path of Exile has all of the drawbacks of having premade characters with none of the compelling storytelling benefits. Diablo 3 is a bit better in that it allows gender selection, but offers no further character options, and Diablo 4 looks to add visually customization, while bringing back the gender locking.
Simply put, the barbarian is not Kratos. The ranger is not Alloy. The thief is not Nathan Drake. The duelist is not Geralt of Rivia. ARPG protagonists don't have interesting stories to tell that cannot be just as easily told by another character. There is no reason from a gameplay or storytelling perspective for us to not have customization here.
I think ARPGs suffer from a general mindset of "if it aint broke, don't fix it," which results in a deluge of good but largely disposable games. It's a similar situation to the MOBA genre, but with more niche and indie financial success stories because these games didn't immediately establish f2p as the end-all-be-all standard for the entire genre like MOBAs did.
Do they need fixing? Not really. But something new and distinct would be appreciated. They also tend to lag behind the industry from a graphical and polish standpoint.
My idea focuses on combining existing strengths
Potentially unpopular opinion, but ARPGs don't really do a good job of making both the long term progression and the short term/low level gameplay experience satisfying. Path of Exile is an excellent example of compelling long term progression, but it's early game experience is slow and boring. Diablo 3's polished combat, fast skill unlocks, and runes make the early game immediately fun, but it's progression isn't as deep in the long term.
I think something with combat on par with or better than Diablo 3, with a steady stream of skill unlocks, a rune system for immediately tangible customization, and a deep skill web for long term customization is the best of both worlds.
To preface my next point, let me establish that Diablo-like games and Dynasty Warriors games have a lot in common. They both rely on rapid kills to create a sense of power fantasy. Both of these genres have something the other sorely needs. Dynasty Warriors needs a more compelling loot treadmill akin to a Diablo-like, while Diablo-likes could really benefit from a Warriors-esque rudimentary combo system.
In a tangible sense, if each basic attack skill in an ARPG had branching combos with light and heavy attacks (performed by left and right click by default), a lot more combat variety could be achieved. Visually, this would be represented by the skill icon flipping like a Guild Wars 2 chain skill. A light attack (left click) would continue the chain, while a heavy attack (right click) would unleash a unique animation and high damage based on when in the chain it was used, and the chain will be reset. We could take this a step further with a dedicated "ultimate" slot, which has its own resource bar and can only be used when full, similar to a Warriors Musuo attack.
Finally, I think the genre generally has a bad case of preset character syndrome. Grim Dawn offers no visually variety in your base character at all. Path of Exile has all of the drawbacks of having premade characters with none of the compelling storytelling benefits. Diablo 3 is a bit better in that it allows gender selection, but offers no further character options, and Diablo 4 looks to add visually customization, while bringing back the gender locking.
Simply put, the barbarian is not Kratos. The ranger is not Alloy. The thief is not Nathan Drake. The duelist is not Geralt of Rivia. ARPG protagonists don't have interesting stories to tell that cannot be just as easily told by another character. There is no reason from a gameplay or storytelling perspective for us to not have customization here.
Comments
I hope ARPG and mmorpg cross breed. I presume that is what lost ark, lineage eternal is doing. Also Torchlight become more "open worlded"? etc
Basically I want to play an isometric mmorpg with combat as smooth as ARPG.
That being said, I think ARPG's need to throw more curve balls at players to keep things interesting. Everyone knows how to beat the AI in these games, they are dumb, they don't think logically. They attack when they should be defending, and defend when they should be attacking.
Adding a system where players can drop into other players games as a strong named mob (with randomly generated abilities to keep people in the dark) to flat out hunt the players would be cool. If the players beat you they get good loot and exp, and if you kill 1 or more players before dying you go back to your game with some loot and exp.
This will also break up the monotony of running around and blowing up everything on the screen. It will give players a sense of dread and worry. And also give people the ability to go and ruin someones day. Which is always great!
This system was used in some Resident Evil games, and it was amazing. I think it could easily be tailored to other genres to keep games interesting.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Or perhaps for lack of trying... whose to say whether the concept is flawed or if literally every studio to try it is inept.
Obviously most can relate to ideas like RIFTS from the game with the same name as well many other ideas across many different games.We need more of this FUN gaming and way less of the end game gear grinds.
It really seems the new generation of gamer cannot relate to simple FUN,yes we played game for a very long time just for the FUN,we did not need a single reward handed to us.Now gamer's seem to ONLY want to play reward systems,fun is not a factor.
Game studios are even relying on bragging systems and rewards to drive their numbers,example Esports,leader boards,rankings,world firsts etc etc.I have in the past asked the simple question,if your so called great game had NO rewards,would you simply play it for fun?
So there you have it,FUN over grind and reward,fully scripted and non scripted events.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.