Sadly for Pantheon to achieve the goal of grouping we will have to see no day light,we will be in dank ugly dungeons 24/7.
I don't mind a dungeon once in a while but i don't like the constant reasoning of fighting through trash mobs to get to some boss at the end of a tunnel.I see the modern gamer as non rpg gamers,they are more interested in loot and fighting anything titled as a BOSS.
Gear gear gear,that is all these rpg's have become,get that next tier so you can fight that next Boss,then everyone gather together with all your best gear to fight the Raid Boss.
I want layers of good game design,not this simpleton trash i have been seeing of late.There was also a lot wrong with the EQ design when comes to timers and hotbars and OOC food did not make sense either.So NO i don't want EQ of old ,i want to see MUCH better.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I never understood "corpse runs". it seems a bit redundant do be defeated, but really defeated becaus of respawn. Now if this was perma-death then maybe, but as a single mechanic with 0 pvp, it just seems redundant
What I don't understand is why my corpse would remain in the game world after my character is raised/resurrected. Or why my ghost is suddenly hurled X amount of distance away from said corpse upon death.
Yep i never understood the reasoning either other than to cause an inconvenience.In FFXi you had a choice of being raised on the spot or you were sent back to your home to recover.Most of these games send you to a spawn point in that map then you run back.It kind of shows us that developers put very little thought into their games,they see an idea and just copy it.
Again on the same notion of "thinking"which devs seem to lack,we should quit calling these deaths and call them KO's "knocked out".The other problem are all these FAKE looking dungeons with tons of mobs just littered all over the place with no chance to get back up.If this was outdoors and the mobs move around as they should,then you would have a chance to get back up after a KO.
So then you get back up in a weakened state for a few minutes while you recover.
"pvp"as someone mentioned has NOTHING to do with a death mechanic lol,you can be KO'd by any mob in a game,it doesn't have to be another player.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Sadly for Pantheon to achieve the goal of grouping we will have to see no day light,we will be in dank ugly dungeons 24/7.
I don't mind a dungeon once in a while but i don't like the constant reasoning of fighting through trash mobs to get to some boss at the end of a tunnel.I see the modern gamer as non rpg gamers,they are more interested in loot and fighting anything titled as a BOSS.
Gear gear gear,that is all these rpg's have become,get that next tier so you can fight that next Boss,then everyone gather together with all your best gear to fight the Raid Boss.
I want layers of good game design,not this simpleton trash i have been seeing of late.There was also a lot wrong with the EQ design when comes to timers and hotbars and OOC food did not make sense either.So NO i don't want EQ of old ,i want to see MUCH better.
One man's (or woman's) trash mob is another man's (or woman's) treasure mob. Or so I've heard.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I never understood "corpse runs". it seems a bit redundant do be defeated, but really defeated becaus of respawn. Now if this was perma-death then maybe, but as a single mechanic with 0 pvp, it just seems redundant
What I don't understand is why my corpse would remain in the game world after my character is raised/resurrected. Or why my ghost is suddenly hurled X amount of distance away from said corpse upon death.
Yep i never understood the reasoning either other than to cause an inconvenience.In FFXi you had a choice of being raised on the spot or you were sent back to your home to recover.Most of these games send you to a spawn point in that map then you run back.It kind of shows us that developers put very little thought into their games,they see an idea and just copy it.
Again on the same notion of "thinking"which devs seem to lack,we should quit calling these deaths and call them KO's "knocked out".The other problem are all these FAKE looking dungeons with tons of mobs just littered all over the place with no chance to get back up.If this was outdoors and the mobs move around as they should,then you would have a chance to get back up after a KO.
So then you get back up in a weakened state for a few minutes while you recover.
"pvp"as someone mentioned has NOTHING to do with a death mechanic lol,you can be KO'd by any mob in a game,it doesn't have to be another player.
Well, if we aren't being informed that some deity or deities (or other such supernatural force/entity/being) really, and I mean really likes us, and finds our continued existence in a world or plane of existence to be of utmost significance and importance (no matter how many times we must be raised from the dead), then maybe you're right. Maybe our characters should simply be knocked out or incapacitated upon defeat by mob(s), non-player character(s), and/or other player character(s). Though I'm not sure I can reasonably explain only getting knocked out by falling off a cliff, drowning, being poisoned, having an axe strike my character repeatedly, or getting the hot idea to wade through burning lava, etc.
Post edited by Ancient_Exile on
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Sadly for Pantheon to achieve the goal of grouping we will have to see no day light,we will be in dank ugly dungeons 24/7.
I don't mind a dungeon once in a while but i don't like the constant reasoning of fighting through trash mobs to get to some boss at the end of a tunnel.I see the modern gamer as non rpg gamers,they are more interested in loot and fighting anything titled as a BOSS.
Gear gear gear,that is all these rpg's have become,get that next tier so you can fight that next Boss,then everyone gather together with all your best gear to fight the Raid Boss.
I want layers of good game design,not this simpleton trash i have been seeing of late.There was also a lot wrong with the EQ design when comes to timers and hotbars and OOC food did not make sense either.So NO i don't want EQ of old ,i want to see MUCH better.
First couple of years that I played EQ, I was grouped at least 98% of the time and I certainly didn't spend all that time in dank ugly dungeons. Yeah we did raid some, had two dragons and later fear, hate and sky. Yeah some loot did drop but at the time most of us were focused on the adventure. WoW was designed as a more raid and loot focus game and EQ moved that way in later expansions.
EQ of old or Pre SoV would be great but not later EQ and no P1999 is not the same as early EQ. I have yet to see anything better than early EQ, its sad that that period lasted for such a short time.
I’m not a huge fan of mounts either - especially flying mounts as they allow for content bypass. Even regular mounts effectively decrease the scope of the world and interdependence between classes (Shaman/Druid SoW). “If” mounts were released they should have max run speed below player casted run speed effects and you should have X% chance to be knocked off by a mob when being hit.
And why can't mounts be killed (they can be 'killed' in BDO, but not permanently IIRC)? Why can't mounts be stolen? (Some horse thieves/rustlers in the past made a pretty decent living. Though they usually got hanged if caught.) And why can't I move someone else's mount out of the way or kill it (if collision detection is enabled/implemented in the case of mounts.)
And you know what? I don't see why collision detection between player characters, non-player characters, and mobs and other player characters, non-player characters, and mobs would really be a problem. Sure, there's some juicy opportunities for griefing other players, but these can be thwarted in many, most, if not all cases. For example, let's say some ingenious griefer decides to use his/her character to block the entrance to a building. So then, just give the player the option to move the offending character out of the way with his/her character. However, if the player character is too weak (doesn't have a high enough STR attribute), then he or she can alert a guard (stationed or patrolling) somewhere in the town or city and ask that guard (or guards) to move the laughing griefer.
Or the player could ask another player (with higher STR) to move the devious prankster.
Just my 2 cents on the matter(s).
In an MMO with unlimited resources, I wouldn't mind a developer trying to implement all the design features you suggest to try to avoid content trivialization and/or diminishing class interdependence. But, Pantheon being on a shoestring budget or at best limited resources, I'd rather the focus be narrowed.
I’m not a huge fan of mounts either - especially flying mounts as they allow for content bypass. Even regular mounts effectively decrease the scope of the world and interdependence between classes (Shaman/Druid SoW). “If” mounts were released they should have max run speed below player casted run speed effects and you should have X% chance to be knocked off by a mob when being hit.
And why can't mounts be killed (they can be 'killed' in BDO, but not permanently IIRC)? Why can't mounts be stolen? (Some horse thieves/rustlers in the past made a pretty decent living. Though they usually got hanged if caught.) And why can't I move someone else's mount out of the way or kill it (if collision detection is enabled/implemented in the case of mounts.)
And you know what? I don't see why collision detection between player characters, non-player characters, and mobs and other player characters, non-player characters, and mobs would really be a problem. Sure, there's some juicy opportunities for griefing other players, but these can be thwarted in many, most, if not all cases. For example, let's say some ingenious griefer decides to use his/her character to block the entrance to a building. So then, just give the player the option to move the offending character out of the way with his/her character. However, if the player character is too weak (doesn't have a high enough STR attribute), then he or she can alert a guard (stationed or patrolling) somewhere in the town or city and ask that guard (or guards) to move the laughing griefer.
Or the player could ask another player (with higher STR) to move the devious prankster.
Just my 2 cents on the matter(s).
In an MMO with unlimited resources, I wouldn't mind a developer trying to implement all the design features you suggest to try to avoid content trivialization and/or diminishing class interdependence. But, Pantheon being on a shoestring budget or at best limited resources, I'd rather the focus be narrowed.
I wasn't necessarily suggesting this for Pantheon. Just speaking generally about the sorts of features next generation MMORPGs could implement.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Well there is no question that EQ was a more realistic game than Wow with it's tons of hand holding features but EQ had it's share of bad game design as well.
I accept early game design faults from ALL the games,yes even including Wow ,i cut Blizzard soem slack and SOE slack etc etc. However over time i EXPECT to see improvements in game design decisions but i assume all decisions are based on money.So when Wow releases and makes tons of money they just keep turning out th esame opld one after another.SOE however was not making loads of money so SHOULD have made changes.
However if we look way back at SWG ,SOE took a lot of heat for making changes even though imo they rightfully should have made changes,perhaps just the wrong changes made.
What i have seen from mmorpg game design the last 17 years since FFXI made many improvements to the genre has been nothing short of pathetic and frustrating.
There has been less focus on creating dynamic plausible worlds and more focus on item drops,boss fights and instances NOTHING that should be a priority in a mmorpg.
I can't really blame TNW too much because imo it was never meant to be a flourishing mmorpg world but was originally intended to be a shallow pvp game but added soem PVE elements to attract more sales.I am more worried about the true mmorpg's delivering really bad games,like 4/10 quality lacking so much from just a basic design standpoint i don't want to even look at them.
So for me i don't want o focus on the hand holding features of games like Wow ,i want to focuis on the media and the shills,YouTubers to start calling out the lazy sloppy mmorpg game designers so just MAYBE we can start moving forward and get a true AAA game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
So far watching Pantheons design over the years all i get is this is going to be same old but likely worse.
This perception idea is imo a weak idea to bank on and other than that i have not seen anything else creative.The teams take on this sort of fake instancing is also one i don't agree with.
To me instancing is a cop out to creating more choice for the players so that everyone doesn't end up in the same place all at the same time.There has been a huge problem with game designs in the first week of release as we witnessed yet again with TNW and over crowding doing quests. For one thing,you don't make quests a sort of forced idea but something players can do on the side IF they feel like it.
You also need several choices for starting zones/areas so all the players are not bumping in to each other.I do not think Pantheon is goign to solve those problems.
One of the biggest lol mechanics in the EQ series of games was how they handled food,it didn't make any sense at all,so i HOPE they do it better in this game.
IMO ,what Pantheon needs to be is like the original EQ but MUCH better in the many design decisions.They also should realize that you need to cater to ALL players and not ONLY 5-6 man groups.FFXI managed to pull that off and that was 18 years ago so there is no excuse anymore because studios SHOULD be learning better designs over the years.
I can spell it out for the team if need be.You offer classes that CAN solo but reward the group aspect of the design and there are several ways to do that starting from the basics with buffs and debuffs etc etc.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I want the same. I don't think most players do though. I don't see this happening. If it does, I don't see this being successful or long lasting.
How do you know most don't want this ?
What do they have to compare it too.... Theirs is none of what the OP describes left. P1999 ?..... its an old dated mess.
I know most don't want it because we once had and then abandoned it en masse at the first opportunity.
When that move took place the games left weren't old and dated as they are now, so the state of them wasn't the cause of departure. The nature of them had less appeal than alternatives now available.
I want the same. I don't think most players do though. I don't see this happening. If it does, I don't see this being successful or long lasting.
Don't need most to want it though. In fact, Pantheon gained a lot of support because it was believed this is what they were going to provide. Brad even talked about how they didn't need to have everyone for the game, just a niche audience that would support it.
A niche audience is most likely. Provided they keep that in mind in their planning and decision making they will likely be able to carve out a sustainable piece of the market.
Comments
I don't mind a dungeon once in a while but i don't like the constant reasoning of fighting through trash mobs to get to some boss at the end of a tunnel.I see the modern gamer as non rpg gamers,they are more interested in loot and fighting anything titled as a BOSS.
Gear gear gear,that is all these rpg's have become,get that next tier so you can fight that next Boss,then everyone gather together with all your best gear to fight the Raid Boss.
I want layers of good game design,not this simpleton trash i have been seeing of late.There was also a lot wrong with the EQ design when comes to timers and hotbars and OOC food did not make sense either.So NO i don't want EQ of old ,i want to see MUCH better.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Again on the same notion of "thinking"which devs seem to lack,we should quit calling these deaths and call them KO's "knocked out".The other problem are all these FAKE looking dungeons with tons of mobs just littered all over the place with no chance to get back up.If this was outdoors and the mobs move around as they should,then you would have a chance to get back up after a KO.
So then you get back up in a weakened state for a few minutes while you recover.
"pvp"as someone mentioned has NOTHING to do with a death mechanic lol,you can be KO'd by any mob in a game,it doesn't have to be another player.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
One man's (or woman's) trash mob is another man's (or woman's) treasure mob. Or so I've heard.
I wasn't necessarily suggesting this for Pantheon. Just speaking generally about the sorts of features next generation MMORPGs could implement.
I accept early game design faults from ALL the games,yes even including Wow ,i cut Blizzard soem slack and SOE slack etc etc.
However over time i EXPECT to see improvements in game design decisions but i assume all decisions are based on money.So when Wow releases and makes tons of money they just keep turning out th esame opld one after another.SOE however was not making loads of money so SHOULD have made changes.
However if we look way back at SWG ,SOE took a lot of heat for making changes even though imo they rightfully should have made changes,perhaps just the wrong changes made.
What i have seen from mmorpg game design the last 17 years since FFXI made many improvements to the genre has been nothing short of pathetic and frustrating.
There has been less focus on creating dynamic plausible worlds and more focus on item drops,boss fights and instances NOTHING that should be a priority in a mmorpg.
I can't really blame TNW too much because imo it was never meant to be a flourishing mmorpg world but was originally intended to be a shallow pvp game but added soem PVE elements to attract more sales.I am more worried about the true mmorpg's delivering really bad games,like 4/10 quality lacking so much from just a basic design standpoint i don't want to even look at them.
So for me i don't want o focus on the hand holding features of games like Wow ,i want to focuis on the media and the shills,YouTubers to start calling out the lazy sloppy mmorpg game designers so just MAYBE we can start moving forward and get a true AAA game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This perception idea is imo a weak idea to bank on and other than that i have not seen anything else creative.The teams take on this sort of fake instancing is also one i don't agree with.
To me instancing is a cop out to creating more choice for the players so that everyone doesn't end up in the same place all at the same time.There has been a huge problem with game designs in the first week of release as we witnessed yet again with TNW and over crowding doing quests.
For one thing,you don't make quests a sort of forced idea but something players can do on the side IF they feel like it.
You also need several choices for starting zones/areas so all the players are not bumping in to each other.I do not think Pantheon is goign to solve those problems.
One of the biggest lol mechanics in the EQ series of games was how they handled food,it didn't make any sense at all,so i HOPE they do it better in this game.
IMO ,what Pantheon needs to be is like the original EQ but MUCH better in the many design decisions.They also should realize that you need to cater to ALL players and not ONLY 5-6 man groups.FFXI managed to pull that off and that was 18 years ago so there is no excuse anymore because studios SHOULD be learning better designs over the years.
I can spell it out for the team if need be.You offer classes that CAN solo but reward the group aspect of the design and there are several ways to do that starting from the basics with buffs and debuffs etc etc.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I know most don't want it because we once had and then abandoned it en masse at the first opportunity.
When that move took place the games left weren't old and dated as they are now, so the state of them wasn't the cause of departure. The nature of them had less appeal than alternatives now available.
A niche audience is most likely. Provided they keep that in mind in their planning and decision making they will likely be able to carve out a sustainable piece of the market.