I'm unsure that "stress" is the right word you're looking for, Delete. "Stress", to me, means "frustration", where you're in untenable situations with no recourse.
Tension, struggles, not knowing and learning are more what I seek in my games, not frustration, though I do like me some XCom 2 ("ARRRGGHH! How can my squad miss 5 80% or better overwatch shots in one turn!!!" or... "Sure, minimum damage and the alien is left with 1 HP... AGAIN!" or... "Shot across the map to my FULL COVER soldier Crits?!?!?!?")
No, stress is not what I'm seeking in my games, Challenges and tension work great, though
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I don't need stress to have fun, but the sense of danger and risk definitely heightens it.
Playing EQ and exploring a new dungeon was certainly stressful and added a lot to the experience. Can I risk going deeper? Can I make this pull? Am I going to clear this camp before the pat comes back? That was a super important part of what made EQ good. You not only risked XP loss on death, but losing your corpse deep in a dungeon was a serious problem that could require you to organize a guild mission to rescue you.
In Shadowbane you had to hunt down named mobs that dropped highly coveted special items that added new skills and many of them were highly contested. Going into enemy territory to fight for a commander rune (had the only stun break in the entire game), watching track while you killed it and worrying if you were going to get killed and looted. Then you had banes (city sieges) where you could lose your entire city and be homeless if you were defeated. It was all quite stressful and added a lot to the experience.
Making a retrieval run in Dark Souls when you had lost a lot of souls and humanity. Making a trade run in Archerage knowing you were going to have to fight your way to the turn in.
Stress is definitely an important part of a good gaming experience, but you don't want it to be too much or all the time. If you can never just relax and enjoy yourself it starts to wear on you.
I don't need stress to have fun, but the sense of danger and risk definitely heightens it.
Playing EQ and exploring a new dungeon was certainly stressful and added a lot to the experience. Can I risk going deeper? Can I make this pull? Am I going to clear this camp before the pat comes back? That was a super important part of what made EQ good. You not only risked XP loss on death, but losing your corpse deep in a dungeon was a serious problem that could require you to organize a guild mission to rescue you.
In Shadowbane you had to hunt down named mobs that dropped highly coveted special items that added new skills and many of them were highly contested. Going into enemy territory to fight for a commander rune (had the only stun break in the entire game), watching track while you killed it and worrying if you were going to get killed and looted. Then you had banes (city sieges) where you could lose your entire city and be homeless if you were defeated. It was all quite stressful and added a lot to the experience.
Making a retrieval run in Dark Souls when you had lost a lot of souls and humanity. Making a trade run in Archerage knowing you were going to have to fight your way to the turn in.
Stress is definitely an important part of a good gaming experience, but you don't want it to be too much or all the time. If you can never just relax and enjoy yourself it starts to wear on you.
Just reading your adventures in EQ and Shadowbane has me stressed..... No but seriously sounds like fun, unfortunately that first generation MMO's were before my time.
I missed out on the real scary good times. Maybe some day.
Being afraid for my character to die because of some kind of greater than minimal death penalty is good. Why? Because I then actually feel a greater connection to my character. Caring about whether my character lives or dies increases immersion, challenge, and the all-important fun factor.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
I don't like or play stressful games. I want excitement. I want my heart to pound because I'm having fun; not because my blood pressure is in overload from whack-ass mechanics or piss-poor design decisions.
I was just thinking something similar last night on my own before seeing this thread. I was switching games for a few hours after dinner like a confused animal not really knowing why I just couldn't stand playing what I was for the 15-30 minutes I spent in each game. I stepped away from the comp and phone to watch a little tv then came to the realization that each game had bits of the experience(feeling & thought combo) I wanted to have but no single one had it all. Guess I was chasing the dragon again which would've probably led me on a unnecessary Steam spending spree so I just gave it up for the night.
About the stress thing though OP what causes stress is not the same for everyone so maybe specify what exactly is stressful so we can accurately discuss this topic without having to assume things that no one except you knows.
I was just thinking something similar last night on my own before seeing this thread. I was switching games for a few hours after dinner like a confused animal not really knowing why I just couldn't stand playing what I was for the 15-30 minutes I spent in each game. I stepped away from the comp and phone to watch a little tv then came to the realization that each game had bits of the experience(feeling & thought combo) I wanted to have but no single one had it all. Guess I was chasing the dragon again which would've probably led me on a unnecessary Steam spending spree so I just gave it up for the night.
About the stress thing though OP what causes stress is not the same for everyone so maybe specify what exactly is stressful so we can accurately discuss this topic without having to assume things that no one except you knows.
Good post, The TV thing, I've been home more like everyone.... I think I found the end of the internet and must say theirs not a single bad thing on there..... None the less, TV has been more relaxing. Infact I read one time stay off both is best, do enjoyable things works even better, and it does...... Learning about chickens and building a coop is fantastic.
More about stress, I SUCK AT IT , but I also search it out, been that way all my life, it actually makes me excel in life. And I LOVE IT !
Stress is not the same for everyone, I think I can narrow down an example of how your right.
Lets take a "common" stress situation that everyone could relate to.
Late for work on a day you must be there..... there are about 10 different ways people could react but here are a few common ones among many.
- Go crazy yelling at everyone in the house to get out of your way to get ready. - simply quietly rush. - go your normal speed - slow down and just don't care. - call in sick.... F$#$ it !
Every day can be different too..... Oddly enough, their are times when I'll have the most stressful day imaginable at work, come home and play the most stressful game on my computer then choose to go to bed and toss and turn on purpose. I'll not allow the adrenalin to stop.
Then their are times I'll have a dull and boring day, come home and not be able to do anything, I'm totally wiped out.... A video game is the last thing on my mind.
So yes there varying degrees from person to person and fifty different moods....... Or I'm bat crazy, but love it
Even though games are simplistic, generally, and even in a game like Arma (lauded as being a "milsim" but having overly simplistic game design) having still lots of simplistic things in it, I do like the sense of danger when playing.
In order for things being dangerous in a game, that also lends itself to the notion of immersion-into-the-game-world, I think it is important that a gameplay is dangerous in the context of the game world, and not just fearing having to start all over. Sure, real fear wouldn't be a thing, and it would probably always be this notion of risk having to start something over again, but still, the better this fear is put into context by world design, the better, as opposed to just dying and fearing to having to re-start a level, or just fearing that one will respawn.
Being afraid for my character to die because of some kind of greater than minimal death penalty is good. Why? Because I then actually feel a greater connection to my character. Caring about whether my character lives or dies increases immersion, challenge, and the all-important fun factor.
This is something very itneresting to me and I rarely hear about. People always mention graphics, atmosphere, developed characters, big screen monitors and VR when discussing immersion. Almost from the beginning danger and challenge were part of immersion for me, so why is it so rarely brought up? Maybe we're a minority. I agree with you.
This is one reason I long enjoyed PvP open world. It increased the immersion. I also played harder difficulty in SP games. It made me feel more like I was IN that world. Harder difficulties are less forgiving. You can't miss as many things. If you get lazy, you die.
One problem when being so fully immersed is the outside world disappears. It's harder to have both. And it's draining, I think. Of all the types of immersion, danger and challenge strain the mind and body. I even sweat sometimes. Consequently, I find that relaxing gameplay is sometimes desired. I just want to build up my character slowly over time, but without the full immersion. And I think the older I get the more it's this way. After long days of work I'm spent. It wasn't this way when I was yonger. I could play for hours the toughest game difficulties. I can't do that when I work full days. Sometimes I go straight to bed. My b ody is sore. My mind is still on work....
So maybe that's how it's. Full immersion will always be the domain of the most energetic, with the least responsibilities. And make a mental note, full immersion doesn't merely mean convincing VR, facial recognition and motional tracking. It means your MIND, and not just your sense, is also fully separated from what's outside.
I would call something "stressful" when the perceived challenge is greater than my perceived skill level.
That is not enjoyable in the slightest.
However, stressful content lets you know that there is more progression and learning to be done, and so acts as a good benchmark. When you tackle something and it's stressful, then you later do it and its fun, you know that you have progressed (either in terms of player skill or character skill). If the game is enjoyable, then that stress can be a powerful motivator. But if the game isnt that great, then any stress will likely drive you away.
As you get better, stressful content eventually becomes fun, then as you get even better it becomes boring, then as you get still better it becomes relaxing. So, if you never encounter stressful content, it probably means the game is too easy for you.
Failing that, you might just be an enlightened person who doesn't feel stress (or a stoner, either way.... :P )
I personally don't seek out stressful games, but i do often seek out the right level of challenge so I can have the most fun, which means I do sometimes encounter stressful situations.
Well, adults and working people already have their less stressful, less immersive games. Plenty of them to choose from. I figure at least one MMORPG can exist that is not expressly made for those who want a relaxing or less stressful experience. And even adults and working people might sometimes crave a more challenging and immersive experience. Like on the weekend or when they're on holiday/vacation.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
Well, adults and working people already have their less stressful, less immersive games. Plenty of them to choose from. I figure at least one MMORPG can exist that is not expressly made for those who want a relaxing or less stressful experience. And even adults and working people might sometimes crave a more challenging and immersive experience. Like on the weekend or when they're on holiday/vacation.
Remember, MMORPGs stopped being a hobby with UO's and EQ's successes. WoW made it big business
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Best way to make money/get rich is to offer a service or product that is wanted/in demand yet no one else is offering. Of course, some or even many people may not even know they want something until it exists. Offering a service or product that is superior to all other services and products of a certain type that is already available can also be very profitable.
"If everything was easy, nothing would be hard."
"Show me on the doll where PVP touched you."
(Note: If I type something in a thread that does not exactly pertain to the stated subject of the thread in every, way, shape, and form, please feel free to send me a response in a Private Message.)
My Mom had a massive stroke a few years ago. Overnight she became an entirely different person. She has never been able to be her old self again.
She used to complain that it was too hot all the time and would go outside when it was freezing while barefoot to try to cool off. Now she is freezing all the time and wears multiple layers of clothes all the time.
She used to like to do puzzles, read books, gardening, travel, correspond with her friends, and was in love with wild horses. She has little to no interest in those things anymore and has shifted to doing entirely different things instead. A complete 180 of what she used to do.
It goes to show you that "You" are merely a state of mind and that at any time if that state changes, "You" are a completely different person... literally.
People with depression are treated with drugs that basically try to shift the "You" of now to a slightly different "You". Many people that I know that take such medication often complain about how it changes them and you notice the changes they are talking about too.
To think that in every brain there is the capacity to be any number of "You's" and that we typically only ever become one of them is an amazing feat of RNG. Fate may roll the dice and give us another "You" but in reality, most of us only ever complete level 1 of the brain game.
My Mom is on level 2.
This is why playing video games all the time is not always going to be your go-to escape forever. Fate has a way of rolling the dice and RNG can be a bitch.
My Mom had a massive stroke a few years ago. Overnight she became an entirely different person. She has never been able to be her old self again.
She used to complain that it was too hot all the time and would go outside when it was freezing while barefoot to try to cool off. Now she is freezing all the time and wears multiple layers of clothes all the time.
She used to like to do puzzles, read books, gardening, travel, correspond with her friends, and was in love with wild horses. She has little to no interest in those things anymore and has shifted to doing entirely different things instead. A complete 180 of what she used to do.
It goes to show you that "You" are merely a state of mind and that at any time if that state changes, "You" are a completely different person... literally.
People with depression are treated with drugs that basically try to shift the "You" of now to a slightly different "You". Many people that I know that take such medication often complain about how it changes them and you notice the changes they are talking about too.
To think that in every brain there is the capacity to be any number of "You's" and that we typically only ever become one of them is an amazing feat of RNG. Fate may roll the dice and give us another "You" but in reality, most of us only ever complete level 1 of the brain game.
My Mom is on level 2.
This is why playing video games all the time is not always going to be your go-to escape forever. Fate has a way of rolling the dice and RNG can be a bitch.
Funny you should mention the brain, I just had a tumor removed the size of a golf ball,,,, I actually feel better (less pressure) no kidding.
Now I find I have very bad cancer and on heavy chemo and radiation with no side effects for over a week now..... I swear I at peace with everything and feel good.
When i come home from work then all i want to do is play games.
But lately there is no games that thrills me...I log in 3 kind of games to do the dayli quest and then i log out and i wonder why i did it..So ye sim also in stress of having fun..cuz nothing is fun atm..it sucks !
When i come home from work then all i want to do is play games.
But lately there is no games that thrills me...I log in 3 kind of games to do the dayli quest and then i log out and i wonder why i did it..So ye sim also in stress of having fun..cuz nothing is fun atm..it sucks !
Two things happen, Sometimes I'm on game burn out, it helps to simply do something else for a few weeks. Then I also hit a dry time where I can't find anything, I'll search Steam and nothing for days or weeks.
But now I love the new Mount and Blade 2 game and Vanilla WoW for 15 or so more levels before stopping again. Been playing 15 levels at a time for years.
I don't like FPS but Thinking about the new Borderlands.
So yes I go from nothing to several quickly.
I also have chapter 3 of Farcry 5 to finish up (second time around) and haven't loaded Fallout 3 in awhile.
Then I liked Xcom 2 so much, I'm ready to play that again but that was recently, so I'll put that on the back burner.
Elex One of my best, but it's a game you have to follow all the way to the end because its hard for a long time....Again one of my hidden gems.
Comments
I don't like overly difficult games. I don't have any respect for hard-for-the-sake-of-being-hard games, especially Souls-likes.
I don't like timers.
I don't like mandatory stealth missions.
I don't like "don't get hit even once" challenges.
And I do not like large death penalties.
Tension, struggles, not knowing and learning are more what I seek in my games, not frustration, though I do like me some XCom 2
("ARRRGGHH! How can my squad miss 5 80% or better overwatch shots in one turn!!!"
or...
"Sure, minimum damage and the alien is left with 1 HP... AGAIN!"
or...
"Shot across the map to my FULL COVER soldier Crits?!?!?!?")
No, stress is not what I'm seeking in my games, Challenges and tension work great, though
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I missed out on the real scary good times. Maybe some day.
About the stress thing though OP what causes stress is not the same for everyone so maybe specify what exactly is stressful so we can accurately discuss this topic without having to assume things that no one except you knows.
The TV thing,
I've been home more like everyone.... I think I found the end of the internet and must say theirs not a single bad thing on there..... None the less, TV has been more relaxing. Infact I read one time stay off both is best, do enjoyable things works even better, and it does...... Learning about chickens and building a coop is fantastic.
More about stress,
I SUCK AT IT , but I also search it out, been that way all my life, it actually makes me excel in life. And I LOVE IT !
Stress is not the same for everyone,
I think I can narrow down an example of how your right.
Lets take a "common" stress situation that everyone could relate to.
Late for work on a day you must be there..... there are about 10 different ways people could react but here are a few common ones among many.
- Go crazy yelling at everyone in the house to get out of your way to get ready.
- simply quietly rush.
- go your normal speed
- slow down and just don't care.
- call in sick.... F$#$ it !
Every day can be different too..... Oddly enough, their are times when I'll have the most stressful day imaginable at work, come home and play the most stressful game on my computer then choose to go to bed and toss and turn on purpose. I'll not allow the adrenalin to stop.
Then their are times I'll have a dull and boring day, come home and not be able to do anything, I'm totally wiped out.... A video game is the last thing on my mind.
So yes there varying degrees from person to person and fifty different moods....... Or I'm bat crazy, but love it
In order for things being dangerous in a game, that also lends itself to the notion of immersion-into-the-game-world, I think it is important that a gameplay is dangerous in the context of the game world, and not just fearing having to start all over. Sure, real fear wouldn't be a thing, and it would probably always be this notion of risk having to start something over again, but still, the better this fear is put into context by world design, the better, as opposed to just dying and fearing to having to re-start a level, or just fearing that one will respawn.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
My Mom had a massive stroke a few years ago. Overnight she became an entirely different person. She has never been able to be her old self again.
She used to complain that it was too hot all the time and would go outside when it was freezing while barefoot to try to cool off. Now she is freezing all the time and wears multiple layers of clothes all the time.
She used to like to do puzzles, read books, gardening, travel, correspond with her friends, and was in love with wild horses. She has little to no interest in those things anymore and has shifted to doing entirely different things instead. A complete 180 of what she used to do.
It goes to show you that "You" are merely a state of mind and that at any time if that state changes, "You" are a completely different person... literally.
People with depression are treated with drugs that basically try to shift the "You" of now to a slightly different "You". Many people that I know that take such medication often complain about how it changes them and you notice the changes they are talking about too.
To think that in every brain there is the capacity to be any number of "You's" and that we typically only ever become one of them is an amazing feat of RNG. Fate may roll the dice and give us another "You" but in reality, most of us only ever complete level 1 of the brain game.
My Mom is on level 2.
This is why playing video games all the time is not always going to be your go-to escape forever. Fate has a way of rolling the dice and RNG can be a bitch.
I just had a tumor removed the size of a golf ball,,,, I actually feel better (less pressure)
no kidding.
Now I find I have very bad cancer and on heavy chemo and radiation with no side effects for over a week now..... I swear I at peace with everything and feel good.
Sometimes I'm on game burn out, it helps to simply do something else for a few weeks. Then I also hit a dry time where I can't find anything, I'll search Steam and nothing for days or weeks.
But now I love the new Mount and Blade 2 game and Vanilla WoW for 15 or so more levels before stopping again. Been playing 15 levels at a time for years.
I don't like FPS but Thinking about the new Borderlands.
So yes I go from nothing to several quickly.
I also have chapter 3 of Farcry 5 to finish up (second time around) and haven't loaded Fallout 3 in awhile.
Then I liked Xcom 2 so much, I'm ready to play that again but that was recently, so I'll put that on the back burner.
Elex One of my best, but it's a game you have to follow all the way to the end because its hard for a long time....Again one of my hidden gems.