It seems that since the demise of CoE, feelings towards any crowd-funded MMO have turned extremely negative!
I still have faith in CU personally. I think their game design is great and I think they are tackling some of the biggest problems within the MMO genre.
Am I annoyed at the delay?
Of course I am. But, I haven't backed it (or anything else) so why get upset? My impatience is a minor thing, more driven by the lack of other mmos to play than anything else. I'll happily wait for the game to release, as long as the game lives up to it's design principles.
Backers for these projects remind me of blind guardian song Just another fool just another fool just another fool..
Keep in mind this started back when Kickstarter was a new concept, before we saw the buffoonery the majority of these projects have resulted in. If you backed something back then it is not the same as backing something today...
Backers for these projects remind me of blind guardian song Just another fool just another fool just another fool..
Keep in mind this started back when Kickstarter was a new concept, before we saw the buffoonery the majority of these projects have resulted in. If you backed something back then it is not the same as backing something today...
But 2 years to develop and release an MMO with a tiny budget and 1/10th the staff that does it in 5+ years? The amount of bluster and faith required to say or believe that even back then was pretty frigging cuckoo.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
<snip> Let’s not forget, it was EA that ruined Mythic (and many other studios) and Warhammer Online. MJ did his best under the circumstances. Not to mention, DAOC is still one of the top PvP mmo’s ever created. <snip>
To add to what others have said above:
So better if Mythic had laid off most of its staff? Which is what MJ - in his very forceful defence of why Mythic was sold to EA - said would have happened.
And when WAR released the "ex-Mythic" staff were all very clear that EA had given them the freedom and financial backing to develop the game. For c. 5 years.
And its because of EA's "indulgence" that DAoC is still running today - under Broadsword Games / Rob Denton (one of Mythic's other founders along with Matt Frior who managed to recreate the DAoC in ESO's PvP). EA could have done what several other companies do - close it.
If you don't give credit to companies for "doing good stuff" and keep preaching "blind hate" then don't be surprised if they stop trying. Call them out for "bad stuff" sure but also recognise the positives.
MJ said "years" and defended his view when people suggested "years and years". Now that its been years and years and years ..... well people tend to be less receptive. Hence why a release date being announced wouldn't be believed.
Has there been an update on the 3(?) month plan / milestones they put out when they announced the new game .... maybe they have and I missed it?
As usual, instead of doing the original project it has morphed into something that pushes the technology. I am not a supporter of the project, I just laugh at any MMO that attempts to start itself through Kickstarter. I will say this, the project continues to show progress. I have a friend that is one of the IT testers and he says it is coming along nicely. Who knows we actually might see the game sometime next year.
Nobody ruins his games but himself,he is in charge.If a game is pushed out too early,it is likely not early but the timeline that was expected.
DAOC best pvp mmo,well that is sort of comical to me because there is no such thing as a good pvp mmo.Pvp belongs in shooters where it can be designed to it's best possible form.
6-7 years,i doubt he can show me anything that looks like a professional studio.I truly beleive he would be "soft launching"if he had anything worth launching.
So my gut says that you better wait another 3 years just to get to that very mild point in development that is barely playable.I am really interested in WHY people backed this,like what exactly do people THINK this game is going to do that you can't already do in completed games?
Warhammer,quit the first day.
DAOC,quit the first day,so NO this game was not that good.
"see things in this game you won't see in other games"does he seriously THINK he can pull that wool over our eyes?He talks in an extremely vague manner,like he has nothing to say.
NEXT TIME,if your going to make a video,SHOW US something....sigh.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I just remembered a place i use to see games....Twitch lol.
Well sifted through the videos,most like this one "meaningless"but there is one video where i could see something,some Archer Ragnarok ordeal.
Puts head down in shame.....WOW,worse than even i could imagine.It looks like Wow and that is not a good thing,the textures look like 1990-95 era.IDK maybe Wow looks better now a days but on release the texture work was awful "art style"is not an excuse.
There was nothing in that video that should give anyone any hope at all.Basically looks like one square box with a few assets and that's it.This is just another reason why a pvp design is so bad,your not going to get anything aside from just being a Battle Royale.
He should have been able to pull off a game like this in 2 years max.I really feel backers are going to be extremely disappointed and why he can't release this at all,he will lose everything if he did.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I backed CU right up until MJ dropped the fact they were gonna be working on ANOTHER game when they were 7 years into their first game and there's not even a core gameplay loop.
I backed CU right up until MJ dropped the fact they were gonna be working on ANOTHER game when they were 7 years into their first game and there's not even a core gameplay loop.
This is crooked as ever
I dunno, I suspect Mark promised his investors he would have a MMP version of CU by the end of 2019.
When that became impossible he had to come up with another way to start generating revenues to satisfy his committment, might have even been part of the deal to get them to sign in the first place.
If Ragnarok isn't a pretty big commercial success I don't believe Mark will have enough funds to deliver the promised game, despite his assurance to the contrary.
If only marginally successful I could easily see the investors taking control of the firm, perhaps drastically altering the development focus on Ragnarok, or marketing the new engine to recoup their investment.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I only want to hear 1 thing out of his mouth, and that is a release date. Anything else is not worth my time.
But if he gave us a new release date, would you believe it? He has proven to either be utterly dishonest or drastically incompetent when estimating dates for CU so far.
It at least gives you something to hold him against. Right now it's a blank check with our money and from the outside it looks like they are playing ping pong all day instead of coding.
How in the world is a 3year sub even come close to the term "LifeTime". As someone who has a LifeTime Subscription to LoTRO, It been good for the last 10 years.
I will have to move this game into the CoE pile. I really respect Mark Jacobs for all he has done in the mmorpg realm, but someone needs to pop this guy some wake pills cause dude is on snore with no alarm clock.
Almost 7 years in with sweet duck all to show and they are making another game when they have yet to even finish the first one.
It's almost like someone started gathering up a ton of red flags and sewed them all into one giant red flag you can see from space. Maybe they should hire Richard Garriott and Jeromy Walsh.
Pathetic.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I forgot what this whole Ragnarok thing was about but while reading comments it came back to me.
IMO it is an ordeal to secure funds,needed funds,i am sure everyone else already feels the same way.So the investors tell him we will give you the funds on the promise you give us another game.
I think in his mind,he actually thinks he can pull it off and make up the difference in spent funds over time to be able to get Ragnarok done.Or maybe this is just put on hold and Ragnarok is the game being developed but will keep pretending CU is still being developed.
My gut says he fails on BOTH fronts,neither game will be worth playing and neither game makes any money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Joke's on ya'll cause I've been playing this game since 2013...
It's a "next gen" genre changing game called a concept MMO or "CMMO" if you will... How it plays is the developer feeds you information regularly about tech updates, ideas, concepts and provides artwork to go along with this game you imagine playing in your mind similar to DND. It's an MMO because thousands of other backers are imagining existing in this world the same way you are and everyone can literally spend hours upon hours playing this new type of game just by thinking about it.
You silly fools actually thought CU was meant to be played on your comp like "classic" MMO's? Losers...
In the early days MMOs and other computer games were ran by developers because they were small and pioneers. Now they are big business and when run by "superstar devs" they become a disastrous vanity ego trips producing nothing but vaporware.
Multi million dollar projects NEED PROJECT MANAGERS, no ifs or buts, project managers dont need to code, they dont need to have a vision, they dont need to know how things work, they MANAGE the PROJECT and keep things ticking over, keep things focused, keep things producing and keep things on time.
With these "crowdfunded" games its in the developers best interests to keep it in a never ending alpha/beta cycle because they can keep drawing a salary from the money the stupids keep throwing at them and will never have to stand up and be judged next to their work, any criticism can be brushed off with waving a "beta" flag around and then feature creep the game some more so it looks like progress/expansion.
Jacobs used EAs poor reputation to shield himself from the fallout of the early demise of Warhammer Online but WARs failing was down to him to a significant degree, he shouldnt be in charge of anything, all of his companies hemorrhage cash and the only one who has come out on top and filled their pockets is him.
I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here. I find this hate on MJ somewhat gratuitous.
Whatever failing WAR may have had, it was still a solid PvP game and had some innovative ideas and a great atmosphere. Also, I have never played DAOC, but many on these boards say it was/is a great game. MJ made, or was a key developer for both of those games right?
Now I didn't follow the kickstarter, so if he really promised that CU would be finished in two years then that is certainly worth condemnation. But don't be salty that he couldn't deliver on making WAR the game of your dreams: there probably wouldn't have been WAR or DAOC without him.
I also think the parallels between CU and CoE are overblown, and miss the fundamental problem with CoE. From memory CU's max backer price is $250 and they have built quite a lot of the actual game.
CoE in contrast, seemed to be a project almost solely designed to extract money from their community. It was literally the ultimate in p2w (minus an actual game). And the sums of money involved were ridiculous ($10,000+ to buy titles/land/ and what not). Everything about the "game" was an illusion and scam from the get go. I can hardly even classify it as a mmo kickstarter, and its sad that the scam was given so much uncritical coverage on this site (and elsewhere).
Personally never had a lot of faith in kick starter. I have backed two or three games and this is one of them. I think I pledged $50 and honestly haven't even followed development.
Was it a waste of $50? Maybe, but I would have just wasted it on something else.
I backed this because I liked DAoC and I thought maybe eventually they would make something similar to classic DAoC. I didn't like ToA and when the Classic cluster went bye bye so did I.
WAR was ok in my opinion... I didn't like how the community was so I left and Mythic couldn't fix that. Others obviously have their own point of view.
If the game never comes out... well I've spent $50 (or more) on games that once I got them I couldn't stand so I didn't get "more" out of them.
I also will probably never back another kick starter but it's not Mark Jacobs fault. It just doesn't seem realistic that crowd funding is going to provide a great game when you consider the cost of everything these days...
Oh and to be fair there were a lot of things with Jacobs & company that I didn't like back in the day. However, to be fair(more fair? lol) I disliked their community PR person far more than anyone else at the company and when she left and went to a different company I wouldn't buy anything from them because I disliked her that much.
I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here. I find this hate on MJ somewhat gratuitous.
Whatever failing WAR may have had, it was still a solid PvP game and had some innovative ideas and a great atmosphere. Also, I have never played DAOC, but many on these boards say it was/is a great game. MJ made, or was a key developer for both of those games right?
Now I didn't follow the kickstarter, so if he really promised that CU would be finished in two years then that is certainly worth condemnation. But don't be salty that he couldn't deliver on making WAR the game of your dreams: there probably wouldn't have been WAR or DAOC without him.
I also think the parallels between CU and CoE are overblown, and miss the fundamental problem with CoE. From memory CU's max backer price is $250 and they have built quite a lot of the actual game.
CoE in contrast, seemed to be a project almost solely designed to extract money from their community. It was literally the ultimate in p2w (minus an actual game). And the sums of money involved were ridiculous ($10,000+ to buy titles/land/ and what not). Everything about the "game" was an illusion and scam from the get go. I can hardly even classify it as a mmo kickstarter, and its sad that the scam was given so much uncritical coverage on this site (and elsewhere).
As I recall there was at least a $5K tier which players were buying their own personal island, a ludicrously high amount at the time which was definitely exceeded by others.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This game better be all that and bag of potato chips. But, I have serious doubts. At this point, he'd be better off upgrading the graphics on DAoC, taking lessons learnt from Warhammer Online, and releasing a shiny/improved DAoC 2. Maybe EA will let him have his old job back, he can shovel BS fairly well, surely he can shovel some BS to EA's CEOs and promise them their stocks will improve and they'll sell a large amount of "surprise mechanics".
That's all he had to do in the first place. Just remake DAoC with modern graphics, it's a fucking gold mine waiting to happen but apparently Jacobs just doesn't get it.
That'd be kind of hard since he no longer owns it
That hasn't stopped him from "making" this abomination called "Camelot Unchained" now has it? If you haven't noticed it's a DAoC clone with different names.
This game better be all that and bag of potato chips. But, I have serious doubts. At this point, he'd be better off upgrading the graphics on DAoC, taking lessons learnt from Warhammer Online, and releasing a shiny/improved DAoC 2. Maybe EA will let him have his old job back, he can shovel BS fairly well, surely he can shovel some BS to EA's CEOs and promise them their stocks will improve and they'll sell a large amount of "surprise mechanics".
That's all he had to do in the first place. Just remake DAoC with modern graphics, it's a fucking gold mine waiting to happen but apparently Jacobs just doesn't get it.
That'd be kind of hard since he no longer owns it
That hasn't stopped him from "making" this abomination called "Camelot Unchained" now has it? If you haven't noticed it's a DAoC clone with different names.
Not really, more of a progression of the RVR portions of DAOC / WAR I think.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This game better be all that and bag of potato chips. But, I have serious doubts. At this point, he'd be better off upgrading the graphics on DAoC, taking lessons learnt from Warhammer Online, and releasing a shiny/improved DAoC 2. Maybe EA will let him have his old job back, he can shovel BS fairly well, surely he can shovel some BS to EA's CEOs and promise them their stocks will improve and they'll sell a large amount of "surprise mechanics".
That's all he had to do in the first place. Just remake DAoC with modern graphics, it's a fucking gold mine waiting to happen but apparently Jacobs just doesn't get it.
That'd be kind of hard since he no longer owns it
That hasn't stopped him from "making" this abomination called "Camelot Unchained" now has it? If you haven't noticed it's a DAoC clone with different names.
Nope. Not even close to a DAoC clone. For one thing there are no PvE zones or much (any?) PvE. There's RvR and crafting and that's it.
You must be that guy who calls all themepark MMOs "WOW clones."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here. I find this hate on MJ somewhat gratuitous.
Whatever failing WAR may have had, it was still a solid PvP game and had some innovative ideas and a great atmosphere. Also, I have never played DAOC, but many on these boards say it was/is a great game. MJ made, or was a key developer for both of those games right?
Now I didn't follow the kickstarter, so if he really promised that CU would be finished in two years then that is certainly worth condemnation. But don't be salty that he couldn't deliver on making WAR the game of your dreams: there probably wouldn't have been WAR or DAOC without him.
I also think the parallels between CU and CoE are overblown, and miss the fundamental problem with CoE. From memory CU's max backer price is $250 and they have built quite a lot of the actual game.
CoE in contrast, seemed to be a project almost solely designed to extract money from their community. It was literally the ultimate in p2w (minus an actual game). And the sums of money involved were ridiculous ($10,000+ to buy titles/land/ and what not). Everything about the "game" was an illusion and scam from the get go. I can hardly even classify it as a mmo kickstarter, and its sad that the scam was given so much uncritical coverage on this site (and elsewhere).
As I recall there was at least a $5K tier which players were buying their own personal island, a ludicrously high amount at the time which was definitely exceeded by others.
Not sure if you are talking about CU or CoE, but I never saw anything about player Islands in CU- maybe in Crowfall? I did have a look at the CU site though and saw that the lifetime sub is now $425.
As I recall there was at least a $5K tier which players were buying their own personal island, a ludicrously high amount at the time which was definitely exceeded by others.
Not sure if you are talking about CU or CoE, but I never saw anything about player Islands in CU- maybe in Crowfall? I did have a look at the CU site though and saw that the lifetime sub is now $425.
Nope, here's the details of the $5K package, but it isn't the biggest, "Dragonwhale" at $10K tops the scale.
I recall at the time they confirmed there were some number of island level backers, not sure if any went for the Dragonwhale option.
See, Jeremy Walsh didn't invent the $10K tier, he just followed the lead of those who came before him.
BTW, I noticed this comment in each, looks like there still might be time to purchase an island, even if not displayed on their current store page.
"This package will not be available after release"
Probably cost more though, these were the KSer only prices and you have to factor in, you know, seven years of inflation, right?
Pledge US$ 5,000 or more
NO MAN IS AN ISLAND BUT I OWN ONE. PHYSICAL REWARDS
Yes, you can own your own island in our world. With this non-repeated, limited tier PLEDGE ONWER receives all the rewards from SIGN RIGHT HERE and THESE UPGRADES: THREE-YEAR SUBSCRIPTION renewable, after three years, for $1 per year + ONE OF EVERYTHING IN THE FOUNDER’S EXCHANGE + an ADDITIONAL 325 FOUNDER’S POINTS (400 TOTAL) + RESERVED NAMING RIGHTS for a guild you start (unless the guild's name is trademarked/copyright by someone else) + TOTAL NUMBER OF BETA INVITES UPGRADED TO SIX + TOTAL NUMBER OF CHARACTER SLOTS UPGRADED BY SIX AT LAUNCH + DRAGONIUM FORUM BADGE + INTERNAL BETA LIST FOR ALL FUTURE CAMELOT UNCHAINED EXPANSION PACKS (which you also receive free). Best of all, this island will be reachable only by flier and you will work with our team to customize your island. You and your guests will have free and unlimited access to and from your island, and you can even allow them to set up houses there. The island will also have its own mines and resources (but only equal to what is found in other safe areas as per you know who) that you can harvest. In addition, pledge owner also receives 8 DIGITAL COPIES OF THE GAME (REDEEMABLE AT THE HERO LEVEL ONLY). This package will not be available after release. Estimated delivery of Internal Testing Access: January 2014.
Pledge US$ 10,000
A DRAGONWHALE? PHYSICAL REWARDS
With this limited tier PLEDGE OWNER ONLY receive all the rewards from BSC and THSE UPGRADES + ONE OF EVERYTHING IN THE FOUNDER’S EXCHANGE + an ADDITIONAL 400 FOUNDER’S POINTS (800 total) + TOTAL NUMBER OF BETA INVITES UPGRADED TO 12 + TOTAL NUMBER OF CHARACTER SLOTS UPGRADED BY 12 AT LAUNCH + DRAGONIUM FORUM BADGE + INTERNAL BETA LIST FOR ALL FUTURE CAMELOT UNCHAINED EXPANSION PACKS (which you also receive free) + RESERVED NAMING RIGHTS for a guild you start (unless the guild's name is trademarked/copyright by someone else) + TWO ADDITIONAL HAND-SIGNED PIECES OF CONCEPT ART (3 TOTAL) + TWO ADDITIONAL HAND-SIGNED UNIQUE PIECES OF CONCEPT ART (3 TOTAL). In addition, pledge owner receives 10 DIGITAL COPIES OF THE GAME (REDEEMABLE AT THE HERO LEVEL ONLY). Best of all, pledge owner receives INVITATION TO COME HANG OUT WITH CITY STATE ENTERTAINMENT in beautiful downtown Fairfax, Virginia for three days including the Camelot Unchained launch party. You must provide your own transportation to our office, but once here, we will pay for your room at a nearby hotel (you are responsible for your own hotel expenses and you must have a valid credit card), transportation to and from the hotel on a daily basis, all of your meals with the team (unless you go off on your own), special email access to the development team, special credit within the game, the manual and anywhere else we have our credits, and on the final day you get to say the magical words "AOT DEKCUS" and throw your choice of fruit pies at Mark Jacobs during your visit (recorded for posterity of course). Please note: we reserve the right to revoke this package, with no refund, if the buyer doesn’t act in accordance with the standards of a professional workplace upon joining us. No use of recording devices is permitted during this time without our permission and the backer must sign an NDA. This package will not be available after release. Estimated delivery of Internal Testing Access: January 2014."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Keep in mind this started back when Kickstarter was a new concept, before we saw the buffoonery the majority of these projects have resulted in. If you backed something back then it is not the same as backing something today...
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
So better if Mythic had laid off most of its staff? Which is what MJ - in his very forceful defence of why Mythic was sold to EA - said would have happened.
And when WAR released the "ex-Mythic" staff were all very clear that EA had given them the freedom and financial backing to develop the game. For c. 5 years.
And its because of EA's "indulgence" that DAoC is still running today - under Broadsword Games / Rob Denton (one of Mythic's other founders along with Matt Frior who managed to recreate the DAoC in ESO's PvP). EA could have done what several other companies do - close it.
If you don't give credit to companies for "doing good stuff" and keep preaching "blind hate" then don't be surprised if they stop trying. Call them out for "bad stuff" sure but also recognise the positives.
Has there been an update on the 3(?) month plan / milestones they put out when they announced the new game .... maybe they have and I missed it?
DAOC best pvp mmo,well that is sort of comical to me because there is no such thing as a good pvp mmo.Pvp belongs in shooters where it can be designed to it's best possible form.
6-7 years,i doubt he can show me anything that looks like a professional studio.I truly beleive he would be "soft launching"if he had anything worth launching.
So my gut says that you better wait another 3 years just to get to that very mild point in development that is barely playable.I am really interested in WHY people backed this,like what exactly do people THINK this game is going to do that you can't already do in completed games?
Warhammer,quit the first day.
DAOC,quit the first day,so NO this game was not that good.
"see things in this game you won't see in other games"does he seriously THINK he can pull that wool over our eyes?He talks in an extremely vague manner,like he has nothing to say.
NEXT TIME,if your going to make a video,SHOW US something....sigh.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well sifted through the videos,most like this one "meaningless"but there is one video where i could see something,some Archer Ragnarok ordeal.
Puts head down in shame.....WOW,worse than even i could imagine.It looks like Wow and that is not a good thing,the textures look like 1990-95 era.IDK maybe Wow looks better now a days but on release the texture work was awful "art style"is not an excuse.
There was nothing in that video that should give anyone any hope at all.Basically looks like one square box with a few assets and that's it.This is just another reason why a pvp design is so bad,your not going to get anything aside from just being a Battle Royale.
He should have been able to pull off a game like this in 2 years max.I really feel backers are going to be extremely disappointed and why he can't release this at all,he will lose everything if he did.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This is crooked as ever
When that became impossible he had to come up with another way to start generating revenues to satisfy his committment, might have even been part of the deal to get them to sign in the first place.
If Ragnarok isn't a pretty big commercial success I don't believe Mark will have enough funds to deliver the promised game, despite his assurance to the contrary.
If only marginally successful I could easily see the investors taking control of the firm, perhaps drastically altering the development focus on Ragnarok, or marketing the new engine to recoup their investment.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It at least gives you something to hold him against. Right now it's a blank check with our money and from the outside it looks like they are playing ping pong all day instead of coding.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/IMO it is an ordeal to secure funds,needed funds,i am sure everyone else already feels the same way.So the investors tell him we will give you the funds on the promise you give us another game.
I think in his mind,he actually thinks he can pull it off and make up the difference in spent funds over time to be able to get Ragnarok done.Or maybe this is just put on hold and Ragnarok is the game being developed but will keep pretending CU is still being developed.
My gut says he fails on BOTH fronts,neither game will be worth playing and neither game makes any money.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It's a "next gen" genre changing game called a concept MMO or "CMMO" if you will... How it plays is the developer feeds you information regularly about tech updates, ideas, concepts and provides artwork to go along with this game you imagine playing in your mind similar to DND. It's an MMO because thousands of other backers are imagining existing in this world the same way you are and everyone can literally spend hours upon hours playing this new type of game just by thinking about it.
You silly fools actually thought CU was meant to be played on your comp like "classic" MMO's? Losers...
Multi million dollar projects NEED PROJECT MANAGERS, no ifs or buts, project managers dont need to code, they dont need to have a vision, they dont need to know how things work, they MANAGE the PROJECT and keep things ticking over, keep things focused, keep things producing and keep things on time.
With these "crowdfunded" games its in the developers best interests to keep it in a never ending alpha/beta cycle because they can keep drawing a salary from the money the stupids keep throwing at them and will never have to stand up and be judged next to their work, any criticism can be brushed off with waving a "beta" flag around and then feature creep the game some more so it looks like progress/expansion.
Jacobs used EAs poor reputation to shield himself from the fallout of the early demise of Warhammer Online but WARs failing was down to him to a significant degree, he shouldnt be in charge of anything, all of his companies hemorrhage cash and the only one who has come out on top and filled their pockets is him.
Whatever failing WAR may have had, it was still a solid PvP game and had some innovative ideas and a great atmosphere. Also, I have never played DAOC, but many on these boards say it was/is a great game. MJ made, or was a key developer for both of those games right?
Now I didn't follow the kickstarter, so if he really promised that CU would be finished in two years then that is certainly worth condemnation. But don't be salty that he couldn't deliver on making WAR the game of your dreams: there probably wouldn't have been WAR or DAOC without him.
I also think the parallels between CU and CoE are overblown, and miss the fundamental problem with CoE. From memory CU's max backer price is $250 and they have built quite a lot of the actual game.
CoE in contrast, seemed to be a project almost solely designed to extract money from their community. It was literally the ultimate in p2w (minus an actual game). And the sums of money involved were ridiculous ($10,000+ to buy titles/land/ and what not). Everything about the "game" was an illusion and scam from the get go. I can hardly even classify it as a mmo kickstarter, and its sad that the scam was given so much uncritical coverage on this site (and elsewhere).
Was it a waste of $50? Maybe, but I would have just wasted it on something else.
I backed this because I liked DAoC and I thought maybe eventually they would make something similar to classic DAoC. I didn't like ToA and when the Classic cluster went bye bye so did I.
WAR was ok in my opinion... I didn't like how the community was so I left and Mythic couldn't fix that. Others obviously have their own point of view.
If the game never comes out... well I've spent $50 (or more) on games that once I got them I couldn't stand so I didn't get "more" out of them.
I also will probably never back another kick starter but it's not Mark Jacobs fault. It just doesn't seem realistic that crowd funding is going to provide a great game when you consider the cost of everything these days...
Oh and to be fair there were a lot of things with Jacobs & company that I didn't like back in the day. However, to be fair(more fair? lol) I disliked their community PR person far more than anyone else at the company and when she left and went to a different company I wouldn't buy anything from them because I disliked her that much.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You must be that guy who calls all themepark MMOs "WOW clones."
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I recall at the time they confirmed there were some number of island level backers, not sure if any went for the Dragonwhale option.
See, Jeremy Walsh didn't invent the $10K tier, he just followed the lead of those who came before him.
BTW, I noticed this comment in each, looks like there still might be time to purchase an island, even if not displayed on their current store page.
"This package will not be available after release"
Probably cost more though, these were the KSer only prices and you have to factor in, you know, seven years of inflation, right?
Pledge US$ 5,000 or more
NO MAN IS AN ISLAND BUT I OWN ONE. PHYSICAL REWARDS
Yes, you can own your own island in our world. With this non-repeated, limited tier PLEDGE ONWER receives all the rewards from SIGN RIGHT HERE and THESE UPGRADES: THREE-YEAR SUBSCRIPTION renewable, after three years, for $1 per year + ONE OF EVERYTHING IN THE FOUNDER’S EXCHANGE + an ADDITIONAL 325 FOUNDER’S POINTS (400 TOTAL) + RESERVED NAMING RIGHTS for a guild you start (unless the guild's name is trademarked/copyright by someone else) + TOTAL NUMBER OF BETA INVITES UPGRADED TO SIX + TOTAL NUMBER OF CHARACTER SLOTS UPGRADED BY SIX AT LAUNCH + DRAGONIUM FORUM BADGE + INTERNAL BETA LIST FOR ALL FUTURE CAMELOT UNCHAINED EXPANSION PACKS (which you also receive free). Best of all, this island will be reachable only by flier and you will work with our team to customize your island. You and your guests will have free and unlimited access to and from your island, and you can even allow them to set up houses there. The island will also have its own mines and resources (but only equal to what is found in other safe areas as per you know who) that you can harvest. In addition, pledge owner also receives 8 DIGITAL COPIES OF THE GAME (REDEEMABLE AT THE HERO LEVEL ONLY). This package will not be available after release. Estimated delivery of Internal Testing Access: January 2014.
Pledge US$ 10,000
A DRAGONWHALE? PHYSICAL REWARDS
With this limited tier PLEDGE OWNER ONLY receive all the rewards from BSC and THSE UPGRADES + ONE OF EVERYTHING IN THE FOUNDER’S EXCHANGE + an ADDITIONAL 400 FOUNDER’S POINTS (800 total) + TOTAL NUMBER OF BETA INVITES UPGRADED TO 12 + TOTAL NUMBER OF CHARACTER SLOTS UPGRADED BY 12 AT LAUNCH + DRAGONIUM FORUM BADGE + INTERNAL BETA LIST FOR ALL FUTURE CAMELOT UNCHAINED EXPANSION PACKS (which you also receive free) + RESERVED NAMING RIGHTS for a guild you start (unless the guild's name is trademarked/copyright by someone else) + TWO ADDITIONAL HAND-SIGNED PIECES OF CONCEPT ART (3 TOTAL) + TWO ADDITIONAL HAND-SIGNED UNIQUE PIECES OF CONCEPT ART (3 TOTAL). In addition, pledge owner receives 10 DIGITAL COPIES OF THE GAME (REDEEMABLE AT THE HERO LEVEL ONLY). Best of all, pledge owner receives INVITATION TO COME HANG OUT WITH CITY STATE ENTERTAINMENT in beautiful downtown Fairfax, Virginia for three days including the Camelot Unchained launch party. You must provide your own transportation to our office, but once here, we will pay for your room at a nearby hotel (you are responsible for your own hotel expenses and you must have a valid credit card), transportation to and from the hotel on a daily basis, all of your meals with the team (unless you go off on your own), special email access to the development team, special credit within the game, the manual and anywhere else we have our credits, and on the final day you get to say the magical words "AOT DEKCUS" and throw your choice of fruit pies at Mark Jacobs during your visit (recorded for posterity of course). Please note: we reserve the right to revoke this package, with no refund, if the buyer doesn’t act in accordance with the standards of a professional workplace upon joining us. No use of recording devices is permitted during this time without our permission and the backer must sign an NDA. This package will not be available after release. Estimated delivery of Internal Testing Access: January 2014."
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained/rewards
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon