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Best thing so far about Shadowlands
Dragnelus
Member EpicPosts: 3,503
Early look at the new achievements in Shadowlands including a change to the allied race requirements to no longer required exalted with the related reputation.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=311898/shadowlands-alpha-achievements-allied-race-requirements-no-longer-require-exalte
https://www.wowhead.com/news=311898/shadowlands-alpha-achievements-allied-race-requirements-no-longer-require-exalte
Comments
That said, for me, the best change would be making the entire world relevant for most of the game again.
Beyond that, the class changes look decent - except I'm still pissed about being forced into daggers for Subtlety Rogue - and I miss my hemorrhage!
It's not really about the size of the world, but about the approach to levels and scaling.
If you design it in the right way, you don't really have to do much for the individual zones.
Of course, I would prefer it if Bliz went back and added world bosses and world quests to all the zones - so they felt even more relevant. While they were at it, I'd also love for them to do full voice overs for the quests - and streamline the presentation a bit.
That's not an "ask" - just something I would love.
Let's not pretend they don't have the resources, though
Disagree on GW2 and ESO....though I somehow knew someone would say those lol. I would argue level scaling makes the entire world irrelevant more than relevant. Not a fan of it.
Arguments don't really mean much against my feelings and the reality of the games I'm playing
But such things are subjective, of course.
You do know WoW did some level scaling right? https://www.pcgamer.com/world-of-warcrafts-new-level-scaling-is-fun-but-only-if-you-love-nostalgia/
Yes, I know they did some level scaling - but they're doing more in Shadowlands.
Which is much more in line with the TES series as well.
Of course, scaling in that way works against the concept of levels - which is why I think both games are sort of confused in terms of design.
Personally, I would do away with levelling altogether in such a design - and I would emphasize the arsenal horizon of skills and gear upgrades over the artificial incremental level increases.
Key is to make people feel like they get more powerful, but in such a way that the world doesn't stop being relevant when they're at their peak.
Meaning, even after finishing quests and killing all the world bosses - you can revisit and kill the same world bosses for XP, items and gold. Same goes for the normal mobs, delves and the dynamic events.
Beyond that, in the traditional MMO (including WoW) - once you level past a particular zone - you won't be able to progress or gain anything from quests, even if you never visited the zone before.
That means you will miss out on roughly half the available zones, because there's nothing there for you to gain from after you've outleveled the zones in question.
In ESO - you can visit any zone in any order, even if you exclusively find things like quests and first-time kills relevant. Meaning, the entire world is relevant for any character - unlike the traditional level-based MMO.
Same goes for ESO dungeons - which are also located in the zones, where you can keep doing them for significant rewards.
Finally, there are daily quests in every zone that you can keep doing and gain significant rewards.
The whole point of this scaling mechanic is to make the entire world relevant indefinitely - and to make it trivially easy to find people to play with at any given time, since there's no problem with level differences.
That doesn't mean you necessarily want to explore the same zone a million times, but it means you can actually progress by doing so - if you happen to enjoy that particular zone. Also, it means you can join other players who haven't experienced a particular zone or dungeon at any level - even if you've already done everything there and STILL gain significant rewards.
Relevant doesn't mean ideal or fresh. It just means relevant.
The individual skills might not gain much bigger numbers if you maintain gear levels - but you will be able to combine multiple skills with those numbers, which is obviously a huge jump in power.
So, until you have all 12 active skills morphed and on your hotbar - and until you have all the dozens of passive skills maxed out - you will be growing in power, which is definitely not before you approach max level.
That said, I agree level scaling isn't ideal in ESO - or in any other game I've played.
Having world quests in all zones at end-game is cool, but it won't change the problem of outleveling zones - which is a pretty big no-no in a TES type of game.
All the TES games center around having freeform exploration where you can go anywhere at any time. That doesn't mean you can beat all enemies at level 1 - but you can usually find a way to avoid conflict or you can focus on certain skills that will enable victory very quickly in the game.
Again, I would do away with levels altogether in such a formula - because levels get people too attached to that arbitrary measurement of power.
In ESO, you WILL get your ass handed to you by champion mobs or world bosses before you reach the Champion Points stage.
You can get powerful enough later on, and then go back and solo most of the bosses and the tougher mobs.
So, there is actually the sensation of going back and kicking ass - it's just less pronounced.
(i.e. added abilities that don't make you any stronger)
Once upon a time....
I don't remember mentioning always being level 1 or "total and perfect" horizontal progression.
I'm not talking about exclusively or rigid horizontal progression.
In other words, you fight a level one Rat, or you fight a level 60 Dragon, no difference except for whatever new buttons you push.
Is that the case?
Edit to add: No matter what level you are.
Once upon a time....
That's actually the reason I want to get rid of levels - because ESO doesn't really do power through levels, it does power through skill points and champion points.
Also, you can focus your skill gains exclusively on damage - and see the biggest jump in power earlier on - or you can spread them out and see a more steady gain in power.
People think that because they do 100 damage with a Sword at level 1 and, say, 150 damage with a Sword at level 50 - nothing much has changed.
The thing is, though, that they can do 150 damage in 12 different ways - many of which compliment each other at max level. Probably something like 2-3 times the damage at max level at least, and that's without champion points.
So, the jump in power is huge - even though the number itself doesn't grow that much.
A level 1 Yellow Sword deals the same amount of damage as a level 50 160 CP Yellow Sword - all other things being equal.
That's where most people get confused about their power.
Which is understandable - because the game does a terrible job at communicating your gains in power.
"A level 1 Yellow Sword deals the same amount of damage as a level 50 160 CP Yellow Sword - all other things being equal."
I don't see a difference in power there.
Second...
"The thing is, though, that they can do 150 damage in 12 different ways - many of which compliment each other at max level."
How's that boost Power? Is it about 12 ways to find weaknesses of the MOBs?
Once upon a time....
Do you understand the concept of combined damage output?
In ESO - like most MMOs - you have instant damage, damage over time, buffs, debuffs, and so on.
Let's say you have a character with 1 skill that does 150 damage (arbitrary number) instantly.
Then you have a character with 3 skills - one that does 150 damage instantly, one that does 150 damage over a period of time, and one that makes the enemy take 150 extra damage from attacks.
If you use all three skills - you've effectively doubled or even tripled your damage output (assuming you can use all three skills simultaneously - which you can't but it's close).
That's the boost in power.
Add the passive skills and skill morphs on top - and you have a very, very significant jump in power from a level 1 character with one skill that's unmorphed - and a level 50 character with 12 morphed skills and dozens of passive skills.
Then comes the champion points - but that's a separate power track.
ESO confuses people who don't really think about these things, because they just look at the one number floating above the enemy - and they don't understand why it's not 50 times higher at level 50.
Which is a part of the problem with having levels in a game that doesn't actually need them for anything.
Does he lose those abilities? Or does he wail like in any other game?
I'm not trying to be obtuse here, just trying to understand how this works. And if it actually works as scaling.
Edit to add:
I agree on your point about the levels, btw.
Secondly, this is Horizontal Progression, it appears.
Horizontal = sideways
Progression = advancement
Combined, that's what this sounds like.
Disguised to look like the big numbers gamers expect.
Once upon a time....
The player doesn't actually increase in level when content scales - but the skills deal damage as if they were level 50 back before the scaling mechanic was added.
It's confusing, I know. One more reason to get rid of levels altogether.
Players lose nothing when the game scales.
That's why you can end up soloing certain dungeons at max level and max CP, which would be utterly impossible to do at level 1.
Secondly, this is Horizontal Progression, it appears.
Horizontal = sideways
Progression = advancement
Combined, that's what this sounds like.
Disguised to look like the big numbers gamers expect.
No, it's not horizontal progression - but it's what some people CALL horizontal progression.
As long as your combined damage or performance increases - that's vertical progression, no matter how you slice it.
True horizontal progression will not increase power in any way.
Which is why I dislike these terms.
Vertical or horizontal? Meaningless.
Either your performance is better or it's not.
The only true horizontal progression would be non-power related, like some utility or purely cosmetic enhancements.
Of course, that's just what I think of it.