Ten playable zones

Kyleran · March 2020

Just for @delete5230, a short video BazgrimTV posted recently on the ten "playable" zones seen so far dating back to 2016.

Scot · March 2020

That looks good, I think our Delete might even get a buzz for the game again.

Sooo...out by 2021?

Scot · March 2020

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

When TV broadcasters have flat earthers on daytime sofa shows you know the world has gone mad, flat out mad.

Utinni · March 2020

WE DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS GAME!!!

Tanist · March 2020

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

The argument he makes that "absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence" is a speculation no different than the speculations made based on the current evidence available. He however goes on to try and provide evidence in the defense of the position that everything is going at a proper pace.

So... the game is in pre-pre-Alpha and through the video he shows 10 zones to suggest that there is plenty of content we have already been shown as well as hinting to content that has been mentioned in development, but we have yet to see.

Now certainly this is ALL speculation on both sides, we are taking the information we have and then speculating based on past works and expected results. It is understandable for people to have "faith" that things are going as planned, but it is equally understandable for those who do not. Especially with the track record of failed crowd funded projects.

So, again... Pre-Pre-Alpha, 10 zones we know of? and a few we don't. Of those zones, some are dungeons, a couple are cities, and a few more are outside areas.

First off, 10 zones is roughly 1/5th of the content that was released during EQ. So, if we are talking about raw content, they had better have quite a bit of content behind the curtain or we are looking at another 2-3 more years of development (at the pace they have been going and I seriously doubt they can finish 30+ zones, feature complete them, hit beta, tune, test, final optimize and release within 1 year, not at their current pace).

Now, certainly they could be holding back information on the zones they have been working on, but they have already in the past mentioned working on content they have no shown, so there is nothing loss, and only something to be gained by mentioning various other zones being worked on.

Keep in mind I am not saying they will not finish. I won't go on about how this project is doomed, etc... I am merely pointing out it is taking WAY too long to develop this game when you consider the size of the team, the tools that exist today, and the massive information that has been collected to help decisions made by previous knowledge in the MMO industry.

Now some people have mentioned the game may be close, that we may even see it released by 2023, suggesting 3 more years of development (the same time it took to make all of EQ) is an acceptable development schedule. I disagree, I think 9 years to develop a game is far too much time for a game that likely will be smaller in content size than EQ at release and missing some core elements of various mechanics, classes, etc.. that they say will be added after initial release.

I think my concern is reasonable, but you can dismiss that with arrogance and use a tired old line to bolster your own ego.

Utinni · March 2020

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

The argument he makes that "absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence" is a speculation no different than the speculations made based on the current evidence available. He however goes on to try and provide evidence in the defense of the position that everything is going at a proper pace.

So... the game is in pre-pre-Alpha and through the video he shows 10 zones to suggest that there is plenty of content we have already been shown as well as hinting to content that has been mentioned in development, but we have yet to see.

Now certainly this is ALL speculation on both sides, we are taking the information we have and then speculating based on past works and expected results. It is understandable for people to have "faith" that things are going as planned, but it is equally understandable for those who do not. Especially with the track record of failed crowd funded projects.

So, again... Pre-Pre-Alpha, 10 zones we know of? and a few we don't. Of those zones, some are dungeons, a couple are cities, and a few more are outside areas.

First off, 10 zones is roughly 1/5th of the content that was released during EQ. So, if we are talking about raw content, they had better have quite a bit of content behind the curtain or we are looking at another 2-3 more years of development (at the pace they have been going and I seriously doubt they can finish 30+ zones, feature complete them, hit beta, tune, test, final optimize and release within 1 year, not at their current pace).

Now, certainly they could be holding back information on the zones they have been working on, but they have already in the past mentioned working on content they have no shown, so there is nothing loss, and only something to be gained by mentioning various other zones being worked on.

Keep in mind I am not saying they will not finish. I won't go on about how this project is doomed, etc... I am merely pointing out it is taking WAY too long to develop this game when you consider the size of the team, the tools that exist today, and the massive information that has been collected to help decisions made by previous knowledge in the MMO industry.

Now some people have mentioned the game may be close, that we may even see it released by 2023, suggesting 3 more years of development (the same time it took to make all of EQ) is an acceptable development schedule. I disagree, I think 9 years to develop a game is far too much time for a game that likely will be smaller in content size than EQ at release and missing some core elements of various mechanics, classes, etc.. that they say will be added after initial release.

I think my concern is reasonable, but you can dismiss that with arrogance and use a tired old line to bolster your own ego.

EQ didn't have a climbing animation. Check AND mate my friend. That's at least 6 years of development.

Tanist · March 2020

Utinni said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

The argument he makes that "absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence" is a speculation no different than the speculations made based on the current evidence available. He however goes on to try and provide evidence in the defense of the position that everything is going at a proper pace.

So... the game is in pre-pre-Alpha and through the video he shows 10 zones to suggest that there is plenty of content we have already been shown as well as hinting to content that has been mentioned in development, but we have yet to see.

Now certainly this is ALL speculation on both sides, we are taking the information we have and then speculating based on past works and expected results. It is understandable for people to have "faith" that things are going as planned, but it is equally understandable for those who do not. Especially with the track record of failed crowd funded projects.

So, again... Pre-Pre-Alpha, 10 zones we know of? and a few we don't. Of those zones, some are dungeons, a couple are cities, and a few more are outside areas.

First off, 10 zones is roughly 1/5th of the content that was released during EQ. So, if we are talking about raw content, they had better have quite a bit of content behind the curtain or we are looking at another 2-3 more years of development (at the pace they have been going and I seriously doubt they can finish 30+ zones, feature complete them, hit beta, tune, test, final optimize and release within 1 year, not at their current pace).

Now, certainly they could be holding back information on the zones they have been working on, but they have already in the past mentioned working on content they have no shown, so there is nothing loss, and only something to be gained by mentioning various other zones being worked on.

Keep in mind I am not saying they will not finish. I won't go on about how this project is doomed, etc... I am merely pointing out it is taking WAY too long to develop this game when you consider the size of the team, the tools that exist today, and the massive information that has been collected to help decisions made by previous knowledge in the MMO industry.

Now some people have mentioned the game may be close, that we may even see it released by 2023, suggesting 3 more years of development (the same time it took to make all of EQ) is an acceptable development schedule. I disagree, I think 9 years to develop a game is far too much time for a game that likely will be smaller in content size than EQ at release and missing some core elements of various mechanics, classes, etc.. that they say will be added after initial release.

I think my concern is reasonable, but you can dismiss that with arrogance and use a tired old line to bolster your own ego.

EQ didn't have a climbing animation. Check AND mate my friend. That's at least 6 years of development.

You got me there... that would take a lot of time to complete. I stand corrected, the game is doing awesome and I can't wait till its release in 2030! /chuckle

Scot · March 2020

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

Phew, I thought this was a ten paragraph defence of the flat earthers position! I am just waiting until launch we shall see then.

Tanist · March 2020

Scot said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

Phew, I thought this was a ten paragraph defence of the flat earthers position! I am just waiting until launch we shall see then.

Why would you make that assumption? I never understood the flat earther attack. Usually, it is made by ignorant people who lack even a rudimentary knowledge in math/physics trying to sound intelligent using logical fallacies, but obviously falling on their face. I put those insults right up there with... children screaming "I hate you" at a parent, or a kid in grammar school ignorantly mouthing off to look cool.

/shrug

Tanist · March 2020

DMKano said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

The argument he makes that "absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence" is a speculation no different than the speculations made based on the current evidence available. He however goes on to try and provide evidence in the defense of the position that everything is going at a proper pace.

So... the game is in pre-pre-Alpha and through the video he shows 10 zones to suggest that there is plenty of content we have already been shown as well as hinting to content that has been mentioned in development, but we have yet to see.

Now certainly this is ALL speculation on both sides, we are taking the information we have and then speculating based on past works and expected results. It is understandable for people to have "faith" that things are going as planned, but it is equally understandable for those who do not. Especially with the track record of failed crowd funded projects.

So, again... Pre-Pre-Alpha, 10 zones we know of? and a few we don't. Of those zones, some are dungeons, a couple are cities, and a few more are outside areas.

First off, 10 zones is roughly 1/5th of the content that was released during EQ. So, if we are talking about raw content, they had better have quite a bit of content behind the curtain or we are looking at another 2-3 more years of development (at the pace they have been going and I seriously doubt they can finish 30+ zones, feature complete them, hit beta, tune, test, final optimize and release within 1 year, not at their current pace).

Now, certainly they could be holding back information on the zones they have been working on, but they have already in the past mentioned working on content they have no shown, so there is nothing loss, and only something to be gained by mentioning various other zones being worked on.

Keep in mind I am not saying they will not finish. I won't go on about how this project is doomed, etc... I am merely pointing out it is taking WAY too long to develop this game when you consider the size of the team, the tools that exist today, and the massive information that has been collected to help decisions made by previous knowledge in the MMO industry.

Now some people have mentioned the game may be close, that we may even see it released by 2023, suggesting 3 more years of development (the same time it took to make all of EQ) is an acceptable development schedule. I disagree, I think 9 years to develop a game is far too much time for a game that likely will be smaller in content size than EQ at release and missing some core elements of various mechanics, classes, etc.. that they say will be added after initial release.

I think my concern is reasonable, but you can dismiss that with arrogance and use a tired old line to bolster your own ego.

Was there a point you were trying to make?

The original point is that more is known about the game than Deleted's claim that "nothing is known"

That is what the point of this thread is.

For some reason you derailed this into a rant, probably because you didnt understand the context.

Did you somehow miss Keylerans "Just for @delete5230" - literally the first thing written

Your exact comment:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

You aren't speaking directly to delete, you are speaking generally about others.

Since my discussions have been the most recent and there has been some... "objection" to them, and this thread, while being directed at Delete, does argue the point progression by the team, my comment was relevant and on point.

Or did you think you could throw out some generalization attack about those who show skepticism on the game and have it go unanswered?

Xiaoki · March 2020

Scot said:

That looks good, I think our Delete might even get a buzz for the game again.
Sooo...out by 2021?

2021? Highly doubt it.

Yeah, ten playable zones is great but out of how many?

Also, Project Faerthale was supposed to be the first feature complete zone and they havent even completed that after a year.

xpsync · March 2020

So hoping this comes to pass.

It's the waiting which sucks, waiting for everything for years and years now. It's why i chose two mmorpg's to lock down on for the many years ahead of waiting. This way if any do make it and are great, then freaking awesome, if not i'll remain in my well establiched homes; SWG:Legends and WOW(Classic&Retail)

Tanist · March 2020

Xiaoki said:

Scot said:

That looks good, I think our Delete might even get a buzz for the game again.
Sooo...out by 2021?

2021? Highly doubt it.

Yeah, ten playable zones is great but out of how many?

Also, Project Faerthale was supposed to be the first feature complete zone and they havent even completed that after a year.

Well, lets see... 10 playable zones (are they fully feature complete though, I thought they were done enough to demo, but still being worked on as well?)

So.. 10 zones done. Now, EQ had 50+ zones at launch roughly. If they are taking over a year to feature complete a single zone, the math certainly does not go in their favor.

Lets consider though that by having a fully complete zone, and lets assume all the mechanics are in, classes are fleshed out, etc...

They still have 40+ zones to churn out. I will go on and speculate that they won't have that many zones at launch. So lets say they are going for 25-30 zones at launch. Lets also say that to get feature complete, due to the work on the first zone, they are able to cut down development time on the others greatly and get a zone done every 3 months. That is still around 6+ more years for 25 more zones.

Lets even say they really have their templates down, and zones will be full finished at a rate of 1 per month. That is at a minimum of 2+ years to get done. Personally, I don't see them all of a sudden hitting that level of pace in that time. Which means the development is going to go on for much longer, or content will be cut severely.

Now maybe they have all these zones in, already have the basics done, and are just working on populating and various mechanic implementations. If that is the case, then I would say another 1-2 years and they will be solidly complete. Which while I think is too long for the over all development, it would still be within the realms of "nearing completion".

Though is it that? I mean, there comes a point where the raw math of time to produce shows the unreasonable means of obtaining the result. That is, unless at last stretch they plan to hire a ton of people to push it out, but then... that would conflict with investment strategy, budgeting and the basic principals they espoused about small teams, steady cost efficient production, which then... makes one leery about possible... monetization (I know I know, they said, not going to happen, etc... but I stopped taking people at their word many years ago.).

moshra · March 2020

Tanist said:

Xiaoki said:

Scot said:

That looks good, I think our Delete might even get a buzz for the game again.
Sooo...out by 2021?

2021? Highly doubt it.

Yeah, ten playable zones is great but out of how many?

Also, Project Faerthale was supposed to be the first feature complete zone and they havent even completed that after a year.

Well, lets see... 10 playable zones (are they fully feature complete though, I thought they were done enough to demo, but still being worked on as well?)

So.. 10 zones done. Now, EQ had 50+ zones at launch roughly. If they are taking over a year to feature complete a single zone, the math certainly does not go in their favor.

Lets consider though that by having a fully complete zone, and lets assume all the mechanics are in, classes are fleshed out, etc...

They still have 40+ zones to churn out. I will go on and speculate that they won't have that many zones at launch. So lets say they are going for 25-30 zones at launch. Lets also say that to get feature complete, due to the work on the first zone, they are able to cut down development time on the others greatly and get a zone done every 3 months. That is still around 6+ more years for 25 more zones.

Lets even say they really have their templates down, and zones will be full finished at a rate of 1 per month. That is at a minimum of 2+ years to get done. Personally, I don't see them all of a sudden hitting that level of pace in that time. Which means the development is going to go on for much longer, or content will be cut severely.

Now maybe they have all these zones in, already have the basics done, and are just working on populating and various mechanic implementations. If that is the case, then I would say another 1-2 years and they will be solidly complete. Which while I think is too long for the over all development, it would still be within the realms of "nearing completion".

Though is it that? I mean, there comes a point where the raw math of time to produce shows the unreasonable means of obtaining the result. That is, unless at last stretch they plan to hire a ton of people to push it out, but then... that would conflict with investment strategy, budgeting and the basic principals they espoused about small teams, steady cost efficient production, which then... makes one leery about possible... monetization (I know I know, they said, not going to happen, etc... but I stopped taking people at their word many years ago.).

Where are you getting the number for how many zones they are planning to release with? Do we know if the zones are going to be the same size as EQ zones, perhaps they will be larger which will theoretically require less zones?

blackthornn · March 2020

You know, for a game that will require community (grouping, trading, self policing), the devs sure like to watch the community turn on itself and outright attack each other left and right. Kinda makes me wonder how much the game will have to be dumbed down to wow standards just to get stuff done

goldwheat · March 2020

EQ1 had over 60 zones at launch.
They've had 6 years to produce 10 playable zones they're willing to show.
They've had over 1 year and 8 months to build Project Faerthale. In june, it will be 2 years. It's still not done. The goals for the project? Unmet. The zone(s) included? Incomplete.

Originally, project faerthale, and pre-alpha 5, was announced at Pax East 2018 to be finished before the end of 2018. Now pre-alpha 5 is planned to be announced before the end of 2020 (from their most recent dev video, as of this date).

This company burns years like most companies burn months. It's embarrassing. The EQ1 team built two zones a month for 2+ years, without Unity.

Wizardry · March 2020

Ummmm

Eq zones were trash like most games of old,super ugly textures,basic land/textures that were identical in every game.

Properties would have been very minimal,did the game even use shaders back then?I know lighting in general would have most likely been a lot of global lighting except maybe in a dungeon but then i couldn't care less about anyone's dungeon zone.

I have no problem at all with few zones and better quality.

I would rather see ALL of the effort go into making a deep game with lot's of variable systems for each idea.
The LAST thing i want to see or play is another click marker over npc head 5 million times and get rewarded with xp for some unknown reason.

I will straight up say that i actually enjoyed a lot of the zone work done in EQ2.Sure there was often a cluster mess,but in the outdoor open they did a good job.In the dungeons ,hell no,skinny lanes forced to fight every last npc that exists within the dungeon,surrounding named by 50 million trash mobs,all of that ..a BIG no thanks.

Point being,i hope this team can improve and by a LOT,on the zone designs from the EQ days,especially dungeon zones.

Tanist · March 2020

moshra said:

Tanist said:

Xiaoki said:

Scot said:

That looks good, I think our Delete might even get a buzz for the game again.
Sooo...out by 2021?

2021? Highly doubt it.

Yeah, ten playable zones is great but out of how many?

Also, Project Faerthale was supposed to be the first feature complete zone and they havent even completed that after a year.

Well, lets see... 10 playable zones (are they fully feature complete though, I thought they were done enough to demo, but still being worked on as well?)

So.. 10 zones done. Now, EQ had 50+ zones at launch roughly. If they are taking over a year to feature complete a single zone, the math certainly does not go in their favor.

Lets consider though that by having a fully complete zone, and lets assume all the mechanics are in, classes are fleshed out, etc...

They still have 40+ zones to churn out. I will go on and speculate that they won't have that many zones at launch. So lets say they are going for 25-30 zones at launch. Lets also say that to get feature complete, due to the work on the first zone, they are able to cut down development time on the others greatly and get a zone done every 3 months. That is still around 6+ more years for 25 more zones.

Lets even say they really have their templates down, and zones will be full finished at a rate of 1 per month. That is at a minimum of 2+ years to get done. Personally, I don't see them all of a sudden hitting that level of pace in that time. Which means the development is going to go on for much longer, or content will be cut severely.

Now maybe they have all these zones in, already have the basics done, and are just working on populating and various mechanic implementations. If that is the case, then I would say another 1-2 years and they will be solidly complete. Which while I think is too long for the over all development, it would still be within the realms of "nearing completion".

Though is it that? I mean, there comes a point where the raw math of time to produce shows the unreasonable means of obtaining the result. That is, unless at last stretch they plan to hire a ton of people to push it out, but then... that would conflict with investment strategy, budgeting and the basic principals they espoused about small teams, steady cost efficient production, which then... makes one leery about possible... monetization (I know I know, they said, not going to happen, etc... but I stopped taking people at their word many years ago.).

Where are you getting the number for how many zones they are planning to release with? Do we know if the zones are going to be the same size as EQ zones, perhaps they will be larger which will theoretically require less zones?

It was quite a while ago, but Brad originally said they had hoped to target roughly the same amount of zones release EQ had. As for the zone size, EQ zones were rather large, much larger than many MMOs today. Granted they were not as "filled" as a Pantheon zone in terms of the content, but many were pretty large.

Even if their zones are much larger, the concept of time to create is still roughly the same. Content is content, the more you have to put in, the more time it takes. So be it 2 zones, or 1 the size of two zones, within reason the workload will be "somewhat" similar. Point is, there is a lot of content to produce and if they don't have a lot of the bulk work done, release is likely to be very far off... or... content will be severely cut. Yes, speculation, but not wild or lacking reasonable evaluation.

Wizardry · March 2020

An old mapper named Robert Wey,one of my faves from back in the 90's,could make a quality map in 30-45 days by himself.An EQ team likely had at minimum 20-30 working on the zones,from textures to music/sounds,lighting,meshes etc etc.

If they had 30 Robert Wey who could make 6-8 quality maps a year and i don't even know how much time he spent,if was in his spare time ,he wasn't employed to make his maps.They would have 150 zone maps and easily,so the other 70 employees could go on coffee runs and pat Smedley on the back.

Point being,the EQ didn't do anything amazing back then,it was just that it was the first real solid,decent looking mmorpg for it's time.However overall,there were a lot of real good quality people that could build the parts for games,it took the engine and the money to put it together.

Tanist · March 2020

blackthornn said:

You know, for a game that will require community (grouping, trading, self policing), the devs sure like to watch the community turn on itself and outright attack each other left and right. Kinda makes me wonder how much the game will have to be dumbed down to wow standards just to get stuff done

EQ was the same. The people who claim EQ was this tight knit close community were either children back then and lacked understanding of the drama going on, or they didn't play EQ in its heavy sub times.

I was from Test server, which I would argue was far more "community" minded than any of the production servers and there was still drama there. On the production servers is was down right nasty at times and the forums would get so heated that eventually SoE/Verant had to shut them down. There is even a off site forum called "EQ Flames" which was for all of the drama.

Then there was the pretentious guilds, one most notably was Fires of Heaven whose leader was a complete idiot loud mouth that stirred up tons of problems (forced the monk nerf, caused SoE to make numerous stupid changes to serve the 1% guilds such as early releasing only raid content from an expansion to keep the morons happy).

Point is, this whole "we are a community" BS is a bunch of PC/SJW style utopia which will honestly turn into elitist bans of anyone who may hurt the feelings of another.

That is not to say there was not a sense of "just" return in EQ. There were still idiots, but people didn't placate to them (though they would whine a lot in chat) and for those who KS'd, griefed, etc... there was black listing (though if you got black listed, it was because you were TRULY a turd that caused issues, well.. unless you were the top guilds, then you got pass /cough Furor, /Cough Thott).

Anyway, don't by into the whole "Kum by ya" garbage, those people have selective memories of EQ.

Tanist · March 2020

Wizardry said:

An old mapper named Robert Wey,one of my faves from back in the 90's,could make a quality map in 30-45 days by himself.An EQ team likely had at minimum 20-30 working on the zones,from textures to music/sounds,lighting,meshes etc etc.

If they had 30 Robert Wey who could make 6-8 quality maps a year and i don't even know how much time he spent,if was in his spare time ,he wasn't employed to make his maps.They would have 150 zone maps and easily,so the other 70 employees could go on coffee runs and pat Smedley on the back.

Point being,the EQ didn't do anything amazing back then,it was just that it was the first real solid,decent looking mmorpg for it's time.However overall,there were a lot of real good quality people that could build the parts for games,it took the engine and the money to put it together.

EQ had a team of 11. Yep, 11 people.

Also, EQ was made in 3 years.

EQ had to make its own tools (they didn't have unity). That means low level programming, having a very firm understanding of the hardware and associated tech (networking, databases, server configs, clustering, etc...)

EQ did not have a fancy already completed networking module that Unity has, they had to develop the netcode on their own, during a time where we were still using dial up.

EQ was one of the early MMOs of its time.

Sorry, but saying EQ was no big deal, is a claim of severe ignorance of the times, the tech, and the field.

Tanist · March 2020

DMKano said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

The argument he makes that "absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence" is a speculation no different than the speculations made based on the current evidence available. He however goes on to try and provide evidence in the defense of the position that everything is going at a proper pace.

So... the game is in pre-pre-Alpha and through the video he shows 10 zones to suggest that there is plenty of content we have already been shown as well as hinting to content that has been mentioned in development, but we have yet to see.

Now certainly this is ALL speculation on both sides, we are taking the information we have and then speculating based on past works and expected results. It is understandable for people to have "faith" that things are going as planned, but it is equally understandable for those who do not. Especially with the track record of failed crowd funded projects.

So, again... Pre-Pre-Alpha, 10 zones we know of? and a few we don't. Of those zones, some are dungeons, a couple are cities, and a few more are outside areas.

First off, 10 zones is roughly 1/5th of the content that was released during EQ. So, if we are talking about raw content, they had better have quite a bit of content behind the curtain or we are looking at another 2-3 more years of development (at the pace they have been going and I seriously doubt they can finish 30+ zones, feature complete them, hit beta, tune, test, final optimize and release within 1 year, not at their current pace).

Now, certainly they could be holding back information on the zones they have been working on, but they have already in the past mentioned working on content they have no shown, so there is nothing loss, and only something to be gained by mentioning various other zones being worked on.

Keep in mind I am not saying they will not finish. I won't go on about how this project is doomed, etc... I am merely pointing out it is taking WAY too long to develop this game when you consider the size of the team, the tools that exist today, and the massive information that has been collected to help decisions made by previous knowledge in the MMO industry.

Now some people have mentioned the game may be close, that we may even see it released by 2023, suggesting 3 more years of development (the same time it took to make all of EQ) is an acceptable development schedule. I disagree, I think 9 years to develop a game is far too much time for a game that likely will be smaller in content size than EQ at release and missing some core elements of various mechanics, classes, etc.. that they say will be added after initial release.

I think my concern is reasonable, but you can dismiss that with arrogance and use a tired old line to bolster your own ego.

Was there a point you were trying to make?

The original point is that more is known about the game than Deleted's claim that "nothing is known"

That is what the point of this thread is.

For some reason you derailed this into a rant, probably because you didnt understand the context.

Did you somehow miss Keylerans "Just for @delete5230" - literally the first thing written

Your exact comment:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

You aren't speaking directly to delete, you are speaking generally about others.

Since my discussions have been the most recent and there has been some... "objection" to them, and this thread, while being directed at Delete, does argue the point progression by the team, my comment was relevant and on point.

Or did you think you could throw out some generalization attack about those who show skepticism on the game and have it go unanswered?

Context, you are missing it.

I dont care if the game gets released in 2021, 3021 or never gets released period, as that is not what I am discussing in this thread.

The entire point was me replying about one person specifically which is the context you keep missing.

But please go ahead and keep bringing up points that have no relevance to my comment.

By the power of literacy, you are shown to be incorrect. If you were talking about a single person, the subject of the thread, you would have properly used a singular reference, you did not...

You referred to "some" to imply more than delete.

Literacy is a powerful thing.

Sovrath · March 2020

Tanist said:

Scot said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

Phew, I thought this was a ten paragraph defence of the flat earthers position! I am just waiting until launch we shall see then.

Why would you make that assumption? I never understood the flat earther attack. Usually, it is made by ignorant people who lack even a rudimentary knowledge in math/physics trying to sound intelligent using logical fallacies, but obviously falling on their face. I put those insults right up there with... children screaming "I hate you" at a parent, or a kid in grammar school ignorantly mouthing off to look cool.

/shrug

It was a joke dude.

Also we don't know how large these zones are. They could be twice the size of everquest or a 5th of the size.

And this isn't a project manned by a large group of people who work non-stop to make it happen.

They don't have incredible funding. Honestly I'd be surprised if it launched but I do feel it "could" launch.

However, the rantings that "we don't know anything about this game" is just that, ranting.

It's someone who must have it NOWWWWWw and can't just acknowledge the game is being worked on and if it launches it could be something to play.

Tanist · March 2020

Sovrath said:

Tanist said:

Scot said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

Phew, I thought this was a ten paragraph defence of the flat earthers position! I am just waiting until launch we shall see then.

Why would you make that assumption? I never understood the flat earther attack. Usually, it is made by ignorant people who lack even a rudimentary knowledge in math/physics trying to sound intelligent using logical fallacies, but obviously falling on their face. I put those insults right up there with... children screaming "I hate you" at a parent, or a kid in grammar school ignorantly mouthing off to look cool.

/shrug

It was a joke dude.

Also we don't know how large these zones are. They could be twice the size of everquest or a 5th of the size.

And this isn't a project manned by a large group of people who work non-stop to make it happen.

They don't have incredible funding. Honestly I'd be surprised if it launched but I do feel it "could" launch.

However, the rantings that "we don't know anything about this game" is just that, ranting.

It's someone who must have it NOWWWWWw and can't just acknowledge the game is being worked on and if it launches it could be something to play.

I apologize, but you know how people are, some times it is difficult to tell if it is a joke or an idiot trying to insult.

Size only matters a "bit" if for instance they have 25 zones the size of 50 EQ zones, the work may be slightly reduced due to consistency, but it is still twice the work. So the point still stands on time to create it.

Yes, I understand that, but they have more people than EQ did and have spent twice the time so far. I understood in the first year or so they had limited work being done because people were doing it part time, etc... but as soon as they got the investor and hired on people, those excuses are no longer viable.

They have already stated they have all the funding they need to complete the game.

We do know based on deductive evaluation combined with factual knowledge from comments and what they have shown and stated so far.

Again, EQ innovated a new concept (MMO) with having to create its own tools, and having to master technology Pantheon does not (ie network engineering for instance).

This game is different, and I will tell you why.

When you go to the public for "help" to make a game, you are then responsible to your public. If you were making a game without the public's money, you could tell them "When its done" and bugger off. They however have investors AND people donating. There is a certain responsibility in communicating progress and roadblocks.

So the whole, shut up and chill, it is done when it is done is not really a good tactic by a company who required players to donate. It is one of the reasons people are so leery of crowd funded as they take advantage of the donating parties by acting like they are a privately funded venture. They are not, they need to answer to why they are behind, why it is taking so long and give a general "state of the game" update explaining (they don't have to show all the details) where they are at, where they plan to be, and how long they estimate it will take.

If I were an investor, do you think I would accept them telling me "when it is done"? Nope.. they have to own up to the investors and while the "donators" are not contract holders, treating like they don't matter when they question as such, shows how they really think of the people that supported them.

Tanist · March 2020

DMKano said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Tanist said:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

Ok, lets be logical here rather than fan worship and then making defensive arrogant accusations of self proclaimed intelligence.

The argument he makes that "absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence" is a speculation no different than the speculations made based on the current evidence available. He however goes on to try and provide evidence in the defense of the position that everything is going at a proper pace.

So... the game is in pre-pre-Alpha and through the video he shows 10 zones to suggest that there is plenty of content we have already been shown as well as hinting to content that has been mentioned in development, but we have yet to see.

Now certainly this is ALL speculation on both sides, we are taking the information we have and then speculating based on past works and expected results. It is understandable for people to have "faith" that things are going as planned, but it is equally understandable for those who do not. Especially with the track record of failed crowd funded projects.

So, again... Pre-Pre-Alpha, 10 zones we know of? and a few we don't. Of those zones, some are dungeons, a couple are cities, and a few more are outside areas.

First off, 10 zones is roughly 1/5th of the content that was released during EQ. So, if we are talking about raw content, they had better have quite a bit of content behind the curtain or we are looking at another 2-3 more years of development (at the pace they have been going and I seriously doubt they can finish 30+ zones, feature complete them, hit beta, tune, test, final optimize and release within 1 year, not at their current pace).

Now, certainly they could be holding back information on the zones they have been working on, but they have already in the past mentioned working on content they have no shown, so there is nothing loss, and only something to be gained by mentioning various other zones being worked on.

Keep in mind I am not saying they will not finish. I won't go on about how this project is doomed, etc... I am merely pointing out it is taking WAY too long to develop this game when you consider the size of the team, the tools that exist today, and the massive information that has been collected to help decisions made by previous knowledge in the MMO industry.

Now some people have mentioned the game may be close, that we may even see it released by 2023, suggesting 3 more years of development (the same time it took to make all of EQ) is an acceptable development schedule. I disagree, I think 9 years to develop a game is far too much time for a game that likely will be smaller in content size than EQ at release and missing some core elements of various mechanics, classes, etc.. that they say will be added after initial release.

I think my concern is reasonable, but you can dismiss that with arrogance and use a tired old line to bolster your own ego.

Was there a point you were trying to make?

The original point is that more is known about the game than Deleted's claim that "nothing is known"

That is what the point of this thread is.

For some reason you derailed this into a rant, probably because you didnt understand the context.

Did you somehow miss Keylerans "Just for @delete5230" - literally the first thing written

Your exact comment:

DMKano said:

Nice.

I have a feeling that it still won't change the minds of some as for whatever reason despite all the irrefutable evidence and data people just dont change.

Example - flat earthers

You aren't speaking directly to delete, you are speaking generally about others.

Since my discussions have been the most recent and there has been some... "objection" to them, and this thread, while being directed at Delete, does argue the point progression by the team, my comment was relevant and on point.

Or did you think you could throw out some generalization attack about those who show skepticism on the game and have it go unanswered?

Context, you are missing it.

I dont care if the game gets released in 2021, 3021 or never gets released period, as that is not what I am discussing in this thread.

The entire point was me replying about one person specifically which is the context you keep

By the power of literacy, you are shown to be incorrect. If you were talking about a single person, the subject of the thread, you would have properly used a singular reference, you did not...

You referred to "some" to imply more than delete.

Literacy is a powerful thing.

I use some on purpose as to not violate the terms of service on this specific site - as calling a person out can be misconstrued as personal attack

So I avoid calling people out by name and use some instead, and people can figure out easily who I am talking about.

Inference is a thing.

You can probably see from my other posts that I use "some people" extensively for a reason

There is nothing that would violate the terms by stating that a certain person is unwilling to accept a given position, information, etc....

If your argument is that you use that so you can insult, well... that is a rather stupid argument that admits you want to insult people.

At that point, you have already invalidated your position.

ChildoftheShadows · March 2020

The number of zones available at launch is irrelevant. The amount of content is all that matters and no one knows how much that is going to be other than VR and for me that's a good thing. I don't want to know everything about a game before it launches. I want to have to discover where things are, what to do, where to go. The less we know, IMO, the better.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is not speculation, it's fact. The belief that they have stuff hidden that they haven't spoke about could be speculation, however they have stated that they're not going to talk about everything, that they'll be keeping some things secret which in and of itself could be construed as evidence that there is more than what we can currently see. That is if you take their word for it, which if you can or can't is entirely up to the individual and there's nothing anyone can do about that until the game is launched and proof is in front of everyone.

If Pantheon were a direct EQ clone it would be really easy to pump out 3 zones a month. Hell it would be easy to pump out 10 zones a month with a few people considering the early zones in EQ were extremely simple. The zones in Pantheon are clearly more complex and thought out than the early zones in EQ. EQ only had a few quests, relative to other MMOS, and for all I know many of them could have been added post launch. Pantheon, while it may not have a lot of quests, has a much more involved "quest-like" system that appears to be much more intertwined with the world, which directly affects how quickly the development of the world itself can be done.

And no, Unity does not have a "ready made" networking system that would work with an MMO. It still requires knowledge and development time.

I will also point out that the networking for EQ and any early online game was extremely rudimentary. If anything of that caliber were used today even the most script-kiddy of kids could hack it and ruin everyones day.

Howdy, Stranger!

Ten playable zones

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Ten playable zones

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Comments