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The Lowest Common Denominator Sucks Prunes
Amaranthar
Member EpicPosts: 5,797
If you really want a really good MMORPG, with wide appeal, you want a diverse set of gamer types.
And if you want that, then each style needs to be created for good game play.
But the lowest common denominator removes good game play from such aspects as economy and exploration in order to make it "easy."
Easy FOR ALL players. Even those who aren't good at it and don't want to learn any tricks of the trade, etc. Don't want to spend the time and effort into learning the skills involved, which aren't always in code but rather in a player's personal abilities.
I think each aspect of game play needs to be made for players who actually enjoy the challenges of that particular sort of game play.
And not for everyone.
Otherwise, you get boring game play for those who care about those aspects. And that's not a recipe for keeping customers.
And if you want that, then each style needs to be created for good game play.
But the lowest common denominator removes good game play from such aspects as economy and exploration in order to make it "easy."
Easy FOR ALL players. Even those who aren't good at it and don't want to learn any tricks of the trade, etc. Don't want to spend the time and effort into learning the skills involved, which aren't always in code but rather in a player's personal abilities.
I think each aspect of game play needs to be made for players who actually enjoy the challenges of that particular sort of game play.
And not for everyone.
Otherwise, you get boring game play for those who care about those aspects. And that's not a recipe for keeping customers.
Once upon a time....
and 3 others.
Comments
The gaming industry confuses me, I admit. On one hand, they everyone playing their games. On the other, they make games exclusive.
I guess money is the be all, end all of gaming, too
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Most of them are pretty much the same thing, with the same game play.
The biggest thing is the PvE. The combat, dungeons, and related content of that nature.
But all the outlier stuff like the economy, harvesting, building and homes, all that stuff is also added game play. But it's so basic and lackluster as far as game play elements.
Every aspect can be improved to be more interesting. There's a lot of game play that's left on the table and simply not done well at all. And there are players who like the game to be more rounded for what you can do in it.
Hack and Slash gets boring after a while. And this other stuff is a way for more players to make a name for themselves, to be somewhat more distinguished. To have something to claim as a part of their identity.
Once upon a time....
Vanilla World of Warcraft,
If too hard play easy content.
30 days games made it worst, and that's most modern mmorpgs.
And then there are actual game devs that thinks "fun" is a meaningful concept that makes any sense to set as a goal in and of itself. Bullshit!
"It's not work if you're having fun."
Within playability, and reason, of course.
But then all that's subjective too. Still, games are not offering knowledge of "how it was done", and should be.
I think each thing a player does should have a scaling up difficulty that relies on knowledge.
In game terms:
- Smelting ore is a relatively easy step with basic knowledge. But making alloys is more complex. And this offers the player possibilities to experiment for better results.
- Searching for common "herbs" is easy early level play. But finding those rare special herbs for greater uses in potions should require more knowledge. In RL, mushroom hunters look for "signs", and that should be in a good game for higher progression herbs.
You need a changing world for that, I suppose. It's time that gets put into our MMORPGs anyways, to enough extent that it's playable, anyways.
But you can see, I hope, how advancement can be more and more difficult and yet give a feeling of real accomplishment. And that's a fun thing, in my mind.
Once upon a time....
If you are better at said such "skills"would it not then be TOO EASY for you versus said noob?
You mention that they should learn the skills or whatever else.No two people are ever going to be the same...ever.For one person something is way easier than it is for the other person,this will always remain as fact.
Even using the same point "EASY"there are more lines than just hard or easy,we can game somewhere in between.
This topic goes way deeper than this simple chit chat but i can't get into it in less than 5 paragraphs.
Bottom line is that pvp and pve CANNOT exist in the same plane,there is absolutely no way.Further more pvp players will always be crying foul for nerfs or buffs,this class is better than class,it ends up being like Blizzard,always changing classes never getting it right.
You know when it is right,when it is ONLY pve because you do NOT need to be balanced in pve.The only logical argument that would then come up is the topic of that healer class is better than my healer class so i can't get in any groups.That is why a good develoepr makes sure EACH class brings something to the table.You also need CHOICES,not LINEAR progression/combat.Choices so that different group archetypes can choose different areas to setup camp instead of everyone in the same area.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
To me that's a perfect example of the mentality by some who believe that they have an inalienable right to play every part of an MMO and go anywhere whether that's actually their thing or not.
Same as bitching about not having access to bind-on-pick-up raid gear when you don't raid.
Large and expensive MMO projects try to cater to many different people for the obvious reason that they need a lot of different people with different interests to buy in order to break even or turn a profit - that's an OK thing. But making all parts of it accessible for everyone is pretty short sighted. The goal should be to make each different part of it like exploration, crafting, raiding, PvP, etc., a good experience for the portion of their audience that really cares about that part.
Otherwise, yeah, you end up with mediocre systems that everyone can do but no one really enjoys.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Easier does not equal easy. If that helps. Even so, comparing a maxed character to a newb character, you'd expect much newbie content to be "easy" for the maxed out character. That's reasonable. But that's comparing one newb level MOB against a maxed character. How does 20 of that newbie MOB against the maxed character fit? That can be "easy" or "risky." In most games, it's a matter of a few swings of a sword or a couple of fireballs. I'd like to see a game where those 20 newb grade MOBs offers some risk of defeat, mostly in terms of critical hits or simply overwhelming the defenses for damage that counts.
Where did PvP come into this? That's another subject, but the same issues apply. You can have "lowest common denominator" or you can build a game that's got more to it. Whether there's PvP or not.
Yes, PvP and PvE can coexist. I've talked about true Justice Systems over the years until my nose bleeds. But no one listens. Because no one wants to find the middle ground.
So be it. I don't need one or the other.
And yes, you do need some semblance of balance, even in a PvE game.
That's just some comments in reply. Like I said, I don't know where you are coming from here.
Maybe if you stop thinking in terms of massive power gaps? I don't know.
Once upon a time....
I agree in the concept as you stated it, except for the world being divided part.
Again, I don't know where PvP came into this subject, but I guess it needs to since some games have it.
In my opinion, if you have PvP zones, inevitably there is loot/resources there, and most games make it something different than what's available elsewhere. Lots of them make it the best stuff for whatever it's used for.
But why do we need that when we can just plop PvP in the rest of the world, and still keep it separate from PvE players?
If you have a war, others are not part of it. There is more a game can do, but it doesn't have to, although I'd recommend they do. Just keep the PvPing separate from those who don't sign up and it can all happen in the same world. The PvEers aren't left out of parts of the world's content.
Again, all of this is a separate issue from what I OPed.
Once upon a time....
"I think each aspect of game play needs to be made for players who actually enjoy the challenges of that particular sort of game play. And not for everyone."
What you're talking about is having sub categories of MMO activities catering to those who enjoy really getting into those activities. That by definition is exclusivity and is the opposite end of the spectrum from "lowest common denominator" which is all about making all things accessible to all people.
I brought up PvP because that same kind of discussion has been going on a lot around here lately with respect to New World and its gimmicky flagging system.
A natural consequence of your idea of making sub-systems for the players who actually enjoy those sub-systems and not for everyone is excluding some from access to some things that are only obtainable in those sub-systems.
I'm simply extending the same concept to places in the game but you seem to draw a line there because there may be rewards there that you want. I don't draw that line.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Usually you started easy, get through 95% of the content with no problem, and you hit a brick wall.
they had PS Home on the PS3 that was just a giant virtual lobby. just link everything together and let people keep a common community but jump from game/environment
Why do they get special treatment?
Once upon a time....
It's my choice and I'm willing to live with the consequences. If everyone was like me with respect to the parts of MMOs they don't want to do there would be a lot less whining about things you're "missing out on." Just my 2 cents.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
In this venture not every book should be Moby Dick, sometimes, reading Twilight is perfectly fine escapism.
Equally so, not every movie should be Shogun, sometimes, just watching something like Shawn of the Dead, is perfectly fine escapism.
With that said:
I firmly believe that an MMO should have a target market and demographic, and build their game to be the best game for that group of gamers, and if others want to play, great, but they need to maintain focus on making the best game for their target market, be damned what anyone else wants.