Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Tab Targeting Or Action Targeting - An Age Old Question

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
edited February 2020 in News & Features Discussion

imageTab Targeting Or Action Targeting - An Age Old Question

In the MMORPG world, there are many factors that go into making a great MMO experience. Combat specifically is one of them, with many MMOs of yesteryear opting for tab-targeting. However, in recent years many MMOs have come onto the market with a more active combat style. Do MMOs need to go back to the age-old tab-targeting, or should we embrace the new future of active targeting in our games moving forward?

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,193
    I prefer TPS/FPS free aim. No locked targets at all.
    Elethonrodingo
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,871
    edited February 2020
    Action targeting sounds great on paper, but I have yet to see it implemented well - especially as it applies to group synergy and endgame PvE.

    I would far rather have a deep, thoughtful skill system with tab targeting than a shallow one that emphasizes reflexes with action targeting.
    Post edited by Aeander on
    Shaihubyk61977deniterazarhalalkarionlogRich84MartianderaRtFuLThinGinfomatzNerblasand 8 others.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    I much prefer tab targeting. It's what I'm used to. It's something I like. And I am too old and slow to play anything twitchy.
    Blaze_RockermeerclarHluillultimateduckShadusLucienRene

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    TBH, the older I get I'd much prefer the relaxing nature tab targeting brings to combat.
    vtraviBeezerbeezinfomatzultimateduckShadusLucienReneKyleranNanfoodle

    image
  • ShelvinarrShelvinarr Member UncommonPosts: 89


    Asheron's Call, to this day, has the best combat in an mmorpg I have played.



    I really wish Turbine would have honored their promise of releasing the open source server for the community to pick up where they left off. Same for Asheron's Call 2, I know it wasn't well received, but when AC2 first came out, it was very interesting to take part in the rebuilding of Dereth and as something other than a human. I'll never forget my first venture as a spear chucking Tumerok on the PvP server. I don't think I made it out of the tutorial dungeon because I kept dying/killing other people while trying to navigate through.
    Shadus
  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 7,871
    Amathe said:
    I much prefer tab targeting. It's what I'm used to. It's something I like. And I am too old and slow to play anything twitchy.
    I can only speak for myself, but I am perfectly okay at action games. But action MMOs seem to think it is normal to hinge your victory on dodging 3 second stuns with a half second, poorly telegraphed animation.
    lotrloreazarhalRich84HluillSamhaelShadus
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    I tend to prefer tab targeting for the slower and more relaxed gameplay, but i also like action combat so i can play with a controller.




  • jazz.bejazz.be Member UncommonPosts: 962
    edited February 2020
    I've played a lot of MMORPG's and I got annoyed by the controls on all of them that had no tab targeting.
    The type of controls pretty much defines a big part the game style and I prefer to have the tactical aspect of tab targetting.
    deniterHluillShadus
  • lotrlorelotrlore Managing EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, Member RarePosts: 570
    @Jazz.be - Totally not related but literally every time I see the Commander Keen avatar I smile. LOVE that game franchise.
    jazz.be
  • mistmakermistmaker Member UncommonPosts: 321
    i think AoC did it well. It was kind of a hybrid.
    Hluill
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,084
    edited February 2020
    I've never liked tab targeting. I remember playing an old single player game called "Summoner" and remember hating it and wishing that someone would make it so that I didn't have to cycle through enemies.

    I'll put up with it if I have to but prefer action games.
    Post edited by Sovrath on
    xDjevik
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • keithiankeithian Member UncommonPosts: 3,191
    I actually like the way ESO did it with a hybrid method. It's just old school enough for us older folks to still feel comfortable, yet feels a bit more alive since you have to pay attention. I only wish the game had a bit more skill buttons without needing to change weapons, but just my opinion. I don't want a Dark Souls type of combat system, but I will adapt like I always have :-).
    Hluill

    There Is Always Hope!

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    It's not just tab vs. action for me but everything else that goes along with the different targeting system that defines the combat.

    As someone who plays all classes but leans heavily toward spell casters, when I think of tab target I also think of cast times, cool downs, self-rooted casting, etc. I also think of those wonderful LOTRO fellowship maneuvers that forced a tactical pause. To me those games are closer to what it would be like to bring tabletop D&D into an MMO setting. They're tactical, more relaxed but also less immersive with more meta-gaming that can pull you out of the immersion.

    When I think of action targeting or hybrids, I think of no cool downs, moving while casting and more immersive fluidity although the downside of that, at least for me, is that they feel more frantic and I find myself wanting to take frequent breaks from the non-stop "go! go! go!"

    Personally I have played and enjoyed both styles when done well.
    Hluillultimateduck
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    I like both if done well.

    Best Tab Target: Echo Of Soul / Aion

    Best Action Combat: Blade And Soul / Black Desert
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722

    Mikeha said:

    I like both if done well.



    Best Tab Target: Echo Of Soul / Aion



    Best Action Combat: Blade And Soul / Black Desert



    For me on Tab Target i like the simple WoW tab target.
    I agree with your action combat choices.
    And I also love hybrids like AoC and GW1/GW2.




  • GroqstrongGroqstrong Member RarePosts: 817
    I like to play both. Why limit my library to one style.
    MikehaRidelynnrodingoTacticalZombehrojoArcueid
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,193
    edited February 2020
    mistmaker said:
    i think AoC did it well. It was kind of a hybrid.
    For sure. If I was going to go with a hybrid it would be this. 

    Outside of AoC I can’t stand the fake aiming action combat styles like ESO. Either go full aiming , Darkfall Online, or tab target. If you want a more action style tab then AoC did it best. 
    Hluill
  • FrykkaFrykka Member UncommonPosts: 154
    edited February 2020
    I have always felt that tab-target was low skill, not only because far less battlefield awareness is required but more because hits are automatic, there are no misses and that takes so much out of the fight. The skill to land the hit, maintain facing on a target and keep yourself moving such that enemy attacks miss you takes twice the skill or more plus it is simply less realistic and immersive. I cannot go back to tab-target, it is lazy.

    Crowfall is getting it right for me. Approaching Beta testing we have adjusted and are still testing hit box sizes, dodge move distances and cooldowns, ttk, and AoE anti-ball up zerg mechanics. It is a little slower paced than Asian BG mechanics for a Western MMO feel.
    Tallyn
  • PurplePepePurplePepe Member UncommonPosts: 122
    Damm, tough subject. I grew up with DAOC so I'm used to tab-targeting. There comes a point with this system where you end up playing a UI and not a game. Action or hybrid systems are better for immersion but have their drawbacks too. I've recently subbed to ESO and the combat has a squishy feeling.
    I think it's tougher in the United States to implement targeting systems that work better with low overall user ping times. Places like South Korea have a nice advantage with that. Do you all think that higher ping times limit the viability of action targeting systems or is it mostly the software?
    Hluill
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    So, silly question, @lotrlore is Joseph Bradford?

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • lotrlorelotrlore Managing EditorMMORPG.COM Staff, Member RarePosts: 570

    Amathe said:

    So, silly question, @lotrlore is Joseph Bradford?



    Yup!
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    Cute pic of you and what I assume is your daughter. My daughter is 21.So cherish those moments. :)  
    lotrloreGiarclenHluill

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,717
    Tab-target games challenge your logical and mathematical abilities in combat.

    Action combat games challenge your reaction times and nerve memory in combat.


    Which one you prefer tends to come down to how you like to be challenged. I prefer to be mentally engaged, thus I prefer tab-target games. I don't find there to be much challenge in developing nerve memory, I know that if I just put in the hours, I'll get there eventually (even if it takes slightly longer to get there now compared with when I was younger).

    Of course, it all comes down to the specific implementation.

    I love DEPTH. Depth is a measure of how hard it is to decide what to do next. You can only have depth if you also have enough complexity, but complexity doesn't always result in depth.

    Something like vanilla LotRO had a crazy amount of depth in it's combat system, especially within the support classes. Tons of skills (complex) but most skills were situationally useful and not just part of long rotations. That meant deciding what skill to use next could be tough and very impactful (depth).

    Conversely, something like vanilla SWTOR was shallow as fuck. It also had tons of skills (complex) but most of them either formed the rotation or were useless bloat. Deciding what to do next was trivially easy, for most classes just a case of executing the rotation or using 1 of a few situational abilities.


    Another point worth mentioning is that depth only comes out during challenging content. If you play games to relax, rather than to have fun, then you won't be doing challenging content and so you won't experience depth at all. In which case, it just comes down to how quickly you want to press buttons and your preference for a busy screen.
    lotrloreNerblasHluillultimateduckLucienRene
  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,193
    Tab-target games challenge your logical and mathematical abilities in combat.

    Action combat games challenge your reaction times and nerve memory in combat.


    Which one you prefer tends to come down to how you like to be challenged. I prefer to be mentally engaged, thus I prefer tab-target games. I don't find there to be much challenge in developing nerve memory, I know that if I just put in the hours, I'll get there eventually (even if it takes slightly longer to get there now compared with when I was younger).

    Of course, it all comes down to the specific implementation.

    I love DEPTH. Depth is a measure of how hard it is to decide what to do next. You can only have depth if you also have enough complexity, but complexity doesn't always result in depth.

    Something like vanilla LotRO had a crazy amount of depth in it's combat system, especially within the support classes. Tons of skills (complex) but most skills were situationally useful and not just part of long rotations. That meant deciding what skill to use next could be tough and very impactful (depth).

    Conversely, something like vanilla SWTOR was shallow as fuck. It also had tons of skills (complex) but most of them either formed the rotation or were useless bloat. Deciding what to do next was trivially easy, for most classes just a case of executing the rotation or using 1 of a few situational abilities.


    Another point worth mentioning is that depth only comes out during challenging content. If you play games to relax, rather than to have fun, then you won't be doing challenging content and so you won't experience depth at all. In which case, it just comes down to how quickly you want to press buttons and your preference for a busy screen.
    Darkfall online served to challenge both. Twitched based combat with a slew of abilities to use in different situations. The only mindless part was melee. It wasn’t perfect but it wasn’t just mindless twitch reactions. 
    SlyLoK
Sign In or Register to comment.