I wonder how many would play though, unlike the many systems we debate such as death penalty, graphics does immerse you in the gaming world. I want to be honest so while I would hope I could play with low end graphics lets say old DAOC, I doubt I could. It is possible after a period of acclimatization I would be fine with it but the gaming industry has made us graphics addicts, the withdrawal period would be rough.
I wonder how many would play though, unlike the many systems we debate such as death penalty, graphics does immerse you in the gaming world. I want to be honest so while I would hope I could play with low end graphics lets say old DAOC, I doubt I could. It is possible after a period of acclimatization I would be fine with it but the gaming industry has made us graphics addicts, the withdrawal period would be rough.
Again, for me, if the art design is good I can deal with older graphics.
I just finished Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines which was fine. The faces still held up though 3rd person always felt a bit weird. And I started Risen.
Still Play Morrowind.
really wanted to play Hexen but the controls were too archaic.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Using AAA games that were considered having good graphics at the time, 10 years ago or so is about minimum before graphics are going to start having a negative impact on my enjoyment of a game.
For example, I loved Trove for what it was, the Voxel graphics worked for it, IMHO, and while you could see they could have done more smooth line graphics, the Voxels were intended, and all in all, it just meshed together.
In the same way with Crowfall, I personally like the claymation style look as I feel it ages better than trying for hyper-realism, and with Crowfall the whole world works together, nothing feels off or out of place, it just blends well, and allows you to focus on playing the game.
Then you have games like GW2, where the graphics are an actual tangible part of the game, where playing are farming and do quests for a specific sword simply because of the Graphics, how it looks.
So, graphics can and do play a role in the game, and while they won't make a game, neglecting them will hurt the game overall.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
There is as vast amount of really solid indie titles 2d games that have done really well i see no reason an mmo of similar caliber wouldnt succeed.
Steam Recommendations: Faster Than Light Stardew Valley Darkest Dungeon The Binding of Isaac:Rebirth Dungeon Of The Endless Forts Heat Signature Mindustry Oxygen Not Included Prison Architect RimWorld Stoneshard Rise To Ruins
Games i already own sure but i am not buying games in 2020 that look like 1990's. ALL of these developers can do a better job,it has nothing to do with nostalgic,nothing to do with ART style,it is all about cheap crap and trying to sell us that cheap crap. Stardew valley was a perfect example of big time over rated crap,NO i would not play that. Furthermore WHY would i want to waste my time buying a new game that is inferior to about 100 other games i already own or could own,what is the point,just to spend money on a new game?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I think that there can be a balance of graphics and gameplay. If you give up one, you need to boost the other. City of Heroes is operating an a nearly 20 year old game engine (designed in 2002) with a minor graphics upgrade in 2008. The gameplay is what keeps people coming back.
Look at the server loads for the Vanilla WoW servers.
lots of people are still playing EQ.
All of these games have lackluster graphics by today's standards, but the gameplay keeps them going.
Contrast this to BDO, which has amazing graphics and quite marginal gameplay if you are into PvE. Yet they have millions playing.
While I am not saying that you can't have both, well done gameplay with marginal graphics will always find an audience.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
There is as vast amount of really solid indie titles 2d games that have done really well i see no reason an mmo of similar caliber wouldnt succeed.
Steam Recommendations: Faster Than Light Stardew Valley Darkest Dungeon The Binding of Isaac:Rebirth Dungeon Of The Endless Forts Heat Signature Mindustry Oxygen Not Included Prison Architect RimWorld Stoneshard Rise To Ruins
No, I did not live in Faster Than Light though it was a great game, I live in a MMO and the level of graphics has to be better than that. Mind you not saying it has to be as good as BDO, Lotro would be alright.
Apparently the very idea of "extremely low graphics" isn't even discussed by OP. This thread seems pointless.
What I do know, is that I would never want to play the old X-Wing game, because that type of graphics is just bad compared to current tech. Ofc, back then the screen resolution was not very large, so I guess X-Wing would have a lot less antialising on a modern screen. Still, those graphics would be too crude today, presumably lacking in texture quality and complexity of the poly models.
Animations are much more important to me than the actual art. There are things that bother me that I often see in games related to the animations. WoW got jumping right. We're talking about heroes in action, not track athletes jumping hurdles. And I can't stand the hurdle type jumps in an action setting, it just doesn't fit because of the landing readiness. I also dislike seeing avatars feet turned outward when running. People push off with the balls of their feet when running (with any speed), meaning that the foot is pretty much straight. It's little things like that, it just feels wrong.
Of course, terrible graphics can be a killer all on it's own. But that's a different thing than the "charm" shown in the OP.
I've recommended "cartoony, but in a realistic fashion" for years for games that don't have money for "realistic." But I don't care for the cute little big headed people that don't fit the rest of a game, like some have.
Animations are much more important to me than the actual art. There are things that bother me that I often see in games related to the animations. WoW got jumping right. We're talking about heroes in action, not track athletes jumping hurdles. And I can't stand the hurdle type jumps in an action setting, it just doesn't fit because of the landing readiness. I also dislike seeing avatars feet turned outward when running. People push off with the balls of their feet when running (with any speed), meaning that the foot is pretty much straight. It's little things like that, it just feels wrong.
Of course, terrible graphics can be a killer all on it's own. But that's a different thing than the "charm" shown in the OP.
I've recommended "cartoony, but in a realistic fashion" for years for games that don't have money for "realistic." But I don't care for the cute little big headed people that don't fit the rest of a game, like some have.
Deliberate, more stylized graphics are a good fall back plan if you know you don't have the budget or talent to pull off something like BDO, but the thing is the art needs to consistent and it should fit the theme and feel of the game.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I'm fine with any graphics as long as the art design is good. The biggest issue I have with old games is odd controls and weird keybinds that can't be remapped.
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
It's weird on the timing of this. With my going back to the KoTR series, I spent a few hours getting the games "looking good for today."
I'm now on a quest to see how many of my old games can be helped this way
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
If a game spends literally nothing on graphics, that's a problem. I have no problem with graphical quality that would have been about average during the NES era. But there are several ways that graphics can be bad enough to be a deal-breaker for me.
1) Graphics that don't match the underlying mechanics well can make it unclear as to what is going on. That can seriously detract from gameplay. EverQuest II has a nasty case of this. The "jumping puzzles" of Guild Wars 2, where the graphics just don't match the physics very well, is another example.
2) Animation rates that are so low that my brain interprets it as independent pictures jumping around rather than as motion are a huge distraction. Warping can be acceptable if it's intended to look like warping, but if normal motion looks much less smooth than a sprite sliding along would, that's a problem. NosTale has a pretty nasty case of this.
3) 3D graphics that are so bad that the game would have looked a lot better with purely 2D graphics are obnoxious. It's pretty rare for that to happen anymore. But it was very common around the turn of the millennium when lots of games wanted to do 3D graphics because it was the hot new thing, but the hardware wasn't powerful enough to make it look decent, and developers hadn't yet figured out how to give players good control of their characters. That seriously hurt a whole lot of games from about 1996-2003. The first game with rasterized, 3D graphics that I actually liked (meaning, liked the game, not liked the graphics) was A Tale in the Desert (2003), and I liked the gameplay but not the graphics.
Poster above touches on the very same thoughts i would have.
Low as in low resolution is not the problem,it is the actual textures used,do they look like kindergarten kids made them or professional artists.I know people tire of Wow bashing but that game's textures,at least the early ones were really bad,like amateur hour bad,worse than many KR f2p games.
Graphics that don't fit the game,a very good example is the incoming Phantasy Star 2,horrible decisions there.Your on the ship and it looks like the lamest cheapest textures,lack of effort i ever seen since Star Trek online but in the open err i mean narrow laned game world it is the photo real textures.So it looks like a 3d world engine is running in behind the cheap 1990's game engine.
Off the top of my head there are not many other examples that really stick out,perhaps Wildstar was another close example of bad. However i should make a point clear,i no longer want to see old school graphics,even if they do fit the pixelated game board,there is NO excuse anymore,i am not buying nostalgic NO EXCUSES,step up and build a proper game with proper graphics.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Poster above touches on the very same thoughts i would have.
Low as in low resolution is not the problem,it is the actual textures used,do they look like kindergarten kids made them or professional artists.I know people tire of Wow bashing but that game's textures,at least the early ones were really bad,like amateur hour bad,worse than many KR f2p games.
Graphics that don't fit the game,a very good example is the incoming Phantasy Star 2,horrible decisions there.Your on the ship and it looks like the lamest cheapest textures,lack of effort i ever seen since Star Trek online but in the open err i mean narrow laned game world it is the photo real textures.So it looks like a 3d world engine is running in behind the cheap 1990's game engine.
Off the top of my head there are not many other examples that really stick out,perhaps Wildstar was another close example of bad. However i should make a point clear,i no longer want to see old school graphics,even if they do fit the pixelated game board,there is NO excuse anymore,i am not buying nostalgic NO EXCUSES,step up and build a proper game with proper graphics.
I'm no expert on graphics, but I have a question. What if you want a game that has more graphical stuff crammed in, such as player characters and lots of option of wearables, and you want it all to run smoothly on typical machines?
I've been thinking that sprites that you seem to be saying are not acceptable anymore, might be the answer in some games. That's if the game also uses combat systems and has other features that fit the isometric view.
For me, I'm beginning to wonder if I really need full 3D because of issues with seeing what's going on around me in game, and what I'd like to have as playability. I'd still prefer full 3D, just saying that a great game that I want wouldn't have to go that route.
The game I've put the most hours into the last couple of years is almost entirely made up of 2D sprites. Graphics are important, but they aren't everything.
I'd also say there is a distinction between graphics and artistic style.
I like nice pretty graphics, but the game itself is more important, and ideally the graphics should support the game and the overall artistic direction. And bugs - no one wants to play a buggy game no matter how pretty it may be.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
There is one super retro 2D MMO that only requires 100mb of RAM called First Star Online 3 https://vimeo.com/390461662 gameplay footage that covers the basics.
Me2. I think the last one I played was maybe 8 years ago? Icesus? They're not bad. Very detailed worlds. Lots of skills and tricks. One thing I couldn't live happily without were the text minimaps that appeared everytime you move. Medievia did a good job. Some MUDs don't have ANYTHING to visulize your surroundings. When I was younger I did play some text games--Hugo's adventure?-- ike that, but not very much. It's true they're fun, but it's a larger hurdle to get over.
Something like this:
You see a field around you. A road is nearby.
#####.~~!#
####.~#o#|
##. .#####|
#. .#u##--|
#.####|
There comes a point though where the text interface limits what the game world can do and how you itneract. And frankly, it's a lot more natural--hence intuitive--to see a 3d world with colored pixels, as opposed to a 2d world with arbitrary text labels (like # for field). Ultimately, I feel like the 3d worlds we have now are much more flexible. I also think 3rd person and 1st person can play very differently.
EVery so often I ask myself if I'll ever play a MUD again? Maybe. But it'd have to be VERY good. It used to be MUDs did it all--and this was long before graphical MMORPGs did it. They were deeper. NPCs were interactive. However I don't think this is as true anymore. Graphical MMORPG's have largely caught up. So MUDs really have to get innovativeto pull people like me back. Something like extremely good natural language AI maybe, combined with an evolving dynamic sandbox AI/non-player world. And they'd have to get everything else just right. All of the right commands and coloring and customization and user-friendliness. A lot of MUDs fail doing just this alone. Anything short of that has been done before. But I doubt unless it's nostalgia.
For the record my first MMORPG was Everquest. I played MUDs later.
Comments
I just finished Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines which was fine. The faces still held up though 3rd person always felt a bit weird. And I started Risen.
Still Play Morrowind.
really wanted to play Hexen but the controls were too archaic.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
For example, I loved Trove for what it was, the Voxel graphics worked for it, IMHO, and while you could see they could have done more smooth line graphics, the Voxels were intended, and all in all, it just meshed together.
In the same way with Crowfall, I personally like the claymation style look as I feel it ages better than trying for hyper-realism, and with Crowfall the whole world works together, nothing feels off or out of place, it just blends well, and allows you to focus on playing the game.
Then you have games like GW2, where the graphics are an actual tangible part of the game, where playing are farming and do quests for a specific sword simply because of the Graphics, how it looks.
So, graphics can and do play a role in the game, and while they won't make a game, neglecting them will hurt the game overall.
Steam Recommendations:
Faster Than Light
Stardew Valley
Darkest Dungeon
The Binding of Isaac:Rebirth
Dungeon Of The Endless
Forts
Heat Signature
Mindustry
Oxygen Not Included
Prison Architect
RimWorld
Stoneshard
Rise To Ruins
ALL of these developers can do a better job,it has nothing to do with nostalgic,nothing to do with ART style,it is all about cheap crap and trying to sell us that cheap crap.
Stardew valley was a perfect example of big time over rated crap,NO i would not play that.
Furthermore WHY would i want to waste my time buying a new game that is inferior to about 100 other games i already own or could own,what is the point,just to spend money on a new game?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Look at the server loads for the Vanilla WoW servers.
lots of people are still playing EQ.
All of these games have lackluster graphics by today's standards, but the gameplay keeps them going.
Contrast this to BDO, which has amazing graphics and quite marginal gameplay if you are into PvE. Yet they have millions playing.
While I am not saying that you can't have both, well done gameplay with marginal graphics will always find an audience.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
What I do know, is that I would never want to play the old X-Wing game, because that type of graphics is just bad compared to current tech. Ofc, back then the screen resolution was not very large, so I guess X-Wing would have a lot less antialising on a modern screen. Still, those graphics would be too crude today, presumably lacking in texture quality and complexity of the poly models.
WoW got jumping right. We're talking about heroes in action, not track athletes jumping hurdles. And I can't stand the hurdle type jumps in an action setting, it just doesn't fit because of the landing readiness.
I also dislike seeing avatars feet turned outward when running. People push off with the balls of their feet when running (with any speed), meaning that the foot is pretty much straight.
It's little things like that, it just feels wrong.
Of course, terrible graphics can be a killer all on it's own. But that's a different thing than the "charm" shown in the OP.
I've recommended "cartoony, but in a realistic fashion" for years for games that don't have money for "realistic." But I don't care for the cute little big headed people that don't fit the rest of a game, like some have.
Once upon a time....
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I'm now on a quest to see how many of my old games can be helped this way
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
1) Graphics that don't match the underlying mechanics well can make it unclear as to what is going on. That can seriously detract from gameplay. EverQuest II has a nasty case of this. The "jumping puzzles" of Guild Wars 2, where the graphics just don't match the physics very well, is another example.
2) Animation rates that are so low that my brain interprets it as independent pictures jumping around rather than as motion are a huge distraction. Warping can be acceptable if it's intended to look like warping, but if normal motion looks much less smooth than a sprite sliding along would, that's a problem. NosTale has a pretty nasty case of this.
3) 3D graphics that are so bad that the game would have looked a lot better with purely 2D graphics are obnoxious. It's pretty rare for that to happen anymore. But it was very common around the turn of the millennium when lots of games wanted to do 3D graphics because it was the hot new thing, but the hardware wasn't powerful enough to make it look decent, and developers hadn't yet figured out how to give players good control of their characters. That seriously hurt a whole lot of games from about 1996-2003. The first game with rasterized, 3D graphics that I actually liked (meaning, liked the game, not liked the graphics) was A Tale in the Desert (2003), and I liked the gameplay but not the graphics.
If you actually meant the use of store/bough assets...that was my thought too.
Altought it bears substantial(?) limitations.
Low as in low resolution is not the problem,it is the actual textures used,do they look like kindergarten kids made them or professional artists.I know people tire of Wow bashing but that game's textures,at least the early ones were really bad,like amateur hour bad,worse than many KR f2p games.
Graphics that don't fit the game,a very good example is the incoming Phantasy Star 2,horrible decisions there.Your on the ship and it looks like the lamest cheapest textures,lack of effort i ever seen since Star Trek online but in the open err i mean narrow laned game world it is the photo real textures.So it looks like a 3d world engine is running in behind the cheap 1990's game engine.
Off the top of my head there are not many other examples that really stick out,perhaps Wildstar was another close example of bad.
However i should make a point clear,i no longer want to see old school graphics,even if they do fit the pixelated game board,there is NO excuse anymore,i am not buying nostalgic NO EXCUSES,step up and build a proper game with proper graphics.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What if you want a game that has more graphical stuff crammed in, such as player characters and lots of option of wearables, and you want it all to run smoothly on typical machines?
I've been thinking that sprites that you seem to be saying are not acceptable anymore, might be the answer in some games. That's if the game also uses combat systems and has other features that fit the isometric view.
For me, I'm beginning to wonder if I really need full 3D because of issues with seeing what's going on around me in game, and what I'd like to have as playability. I'd still prefer full 3D, just saying that a great game that I want wouldn't have to go that route.
Once upon a time....
I'd also say there is a distinction between graphics and artistic style.
I like nice pretty graphics, but the game itself is more important, and ideally the graphics should support the game and the overall artistic direction. And bugs - no one wants to play a buggy game no matter how pretty it may be.
https://vimeo.com/390461662 gameplay footage that covers the basics.