@Ungood TBH, a sub is fine with me. I pay by month, and only pay if I'm going to play, so I get my $'s worth, IMO. I never buy the year or forget to cancel my sub and accidentally pay for another big chunk of time.
$15 for dozens of entertaining hours per month is great RoI for me.
$0 for dozens of entertaining hours per month would also be great.
I have no problem paying if I'm getting what I feel is my money's worth out of it.
When I stop having fun, or start fading away or have an itch to try other games I stop the sub.
I don't have a lot of disposable game time anymore, so if I'm subbing to a specific game I tend to stick with only playing that game, which usually equates to 1-3 months at a time.
@Ungood TBH, a sub is fine with me. I pay by month, and only pay if I'm going to play, so I get my $'s worth, IMO. I never buy the year or forget to cancel my sub and accidentally pay for another big chunk of time.
$15 for dozens of entertaining hours per month is great RoI for me.
$0 for dozens of entertaining hours per month would also be great.
I have no problem paying if I'm getting what I feel is my money's worth out of it.
When I stop having fun, or start fading away or have an itch to try other games I stop the sub.
I don't have a lot of disposable game time anymore, so if I'm subbing to a specific game I tend to stick with only playing that game, which usually equates to 1-3 months at a time.
Gut Out!
Also when I'm enjoying an MMORPG and subbed to it I tend to play almost nothing else so $15 for my total gaming spending in a month is dirt cheap. If I'm not currently playing one I tend to spend much more than that.
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“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
@Ungood TBH, a sub is fine with me. I pay by month, and only pay if I'm going to play, so I get my $'s worth, IMO. I never buy the year or forget to cancel my sub and accidentally pay for another big chunk of time.
$15 for dozens of entertaining hours per month is great RoI for me.
$0 for dozens of entertaining hours per month would also be great.
I have no problem paying if I'm getting what I feel is my money's worth out of it.
When I stop having fun, or start fading away or have an itch to try other games I stop the sub.
I don't have a lot of disposable game time anymore, so if I'm subbing to a specific game I tend to stick with only playing that game, which usually equates to 1-3 months at a time.
Gut Out!
Also when I'm enjoying an MMORPG and subbed to it I tend to play almost nothing else so $15 for my total gaming spending in a month is dirt cheap. If I'm not currently playing one I tend to spend much more than that.
Ive kept my UO sub running for 23 years now , and im usually subbed to 2 other MMOs at any given time .. right now
The industry is still opting for subscription. We see it all the time as 'games as a service' model but none of the publishers have the confidence in single titles to go that road. Instead they prefer to lump all their games in to the client. Doesn't matter if you choose Epic, Origins, XBox live or any number of these game launchers they all have a monthly that lets you play a number of their titles free as long as you are subscribed. So Subscriptions are evolving but the stable income from them is not and I don't think it will any time soon.
I always wondered if a donation system would work for an MMO. Require a minimum 1$ for access (to get the credit card info and make it easier to donate more in the future).
No perks for plebs or whales, everyone gets access to everything regardless but you would be encouraged to donate more if you were enjoying the software and wanted to support it's continued development.
I ripped this idea from a lot of places. Like the free kernals, browser, websites that I use that ask me to donate (and I do).
@Ungood TBH, a sub is fine with me. I pay by month, and only pay if I'm going to play, so I get my $'s worth, IMO. I never buy the year or forget to cancel my sub and accidentally pay for another big chunk of time.
$15 for dozens of entertaining hours per month is great RoI for me.
$0 for dozens of entertaining hours per month would also be great.
I have no problem paying if I'm getting what I feel is my money's worth out of it.
When I stop having fun, or start fading away or have an itch to try other games I stop the sub.
I don't have a lot of disposable game time anymore, so if I'm subbing to a specific game I tend to stick with only playing that game, which usually equates to 1-3 months at a time.
See, DDO, was my first F2P MMO, with their plan where you buy Content, was a world changers for me. Now, I loved that game when I started playing it, it was my kind of game through and through.
So it took me a grand total of 1 day playing DDO before jumped all in, and bought the sub, paid a year in advance because it was cheaper, and just dove into the game like it was any other MMO I have played.
I was loving it.
Now, after 2 years, I looked at how much I was spending, I was paying the Sub, and I was also buying stuff in the store. All of this was my choice, and I had no issues with supporting a game I was enjoying, I was not driving myself broke by any means, this was all within my budget, so, no worries. But, when it came time to go into that 3rd year of sub, I asked myself, "Why was I paying this? I'f I had bought all the content as they sold it, I would have spent less, and had anytime access"
See, the question not just how much I was paying, but why I was paying it.
So, I broke down the numbers, saw what it was going to cost me to get what I wanted, and, yes, while it ended up costing the same few hundred dollars I would have spent in Sub fees over the years, it was a one time purchase, and from that point on, I was only going to need to spend more money on the game if I wanted more of the game, as opposed to simply wanting to play what I already had.
It was like, a moment of awakening, Here I was, playing an MMO, where I could buy the Box Game, and play the Box Game, without any additional fees of hooks, and it was just that simple.
I could take breaks, come back anytime I wanted, play as little or as much as I liked, I was suddenly in control as opposed to being a slave to the sub to play a game I already paid for.
That is changed my whole way of looking at the games I played, and it was at that point I became a true believer in the cash shop.
Now, sure some games try to bend you over the cash shop, but, I find the more invasive the shop is, the less I play the game. Like for example, in BDO, the shop was always shoved in my face, in GW2 I was 2 days in and level 40 (I was just enjoying screwing around in that game, it was just kind of mellow fun) before I figured out the Auction House and the Gem Shop were on the same button in the control panel and I could pull them up any time I wanted.
So.. yah.. the cash shop also depends on the game as well, and how they put it in.
But then again.. in GW2 their was people crying that mount skins (not mounts, just cosmetic skins) where P2W. Which should kinda give an idea how little that game as in any kind of real P2W in the cash shop when their players get to calling cosmetics P2W.
Just saying from my view of things.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
If the subscription model is death, its a sad thing for the community it was the most fair thing.. and it kept out those people that join free games with ruining others experiences in mind.
in the rest of the software based world subscription model is booming..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Its really very simple .. The game must warrant the subscription
Good games can ask for a sub , with little or non-invasive cash shop
Shit games do not ask for a sub(usually) but do have an invasive needed cash shop
I agree a game must warrant a subscription. The trick is what can it offer more or less unique vs other games to convince the player it is worthwhile.
For some it's a beloved IP, one reason I play FO76 is I love post apocalyptic worlds and IMO it's the best available at present (In a limited market I'll grant) combined with a lore I have always loved.
I think FFXIV, ESO, UO and some others fall in this category.
Other techniques come into play, such as offering unique utility or convenience only available by sub, such as FO76 (or ESOs) unlimited crafting boxes / bags and private worlds which I would now find it hard to play without them.
As a "good or shit games" are such a relative and debateable terms I don't feel they are accurate qualifiers.
Perhaps in the sense the factors I mentioned above along with many others help a player determine which category a game falls into, for them at least.
I mean, people mock my FO1st Sub, but c'mon, you sub to Daybreak games?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Its really very simple .. The game must warrant the subscription
Good games can ask for a sub , with little or non-invasive cash shop
Shit games do not ask for a sub(usually) but do have an invasive needed cash shop
I agree a game must warrant a subscription. The trick is what can it offer more or less unique vs other games to convince the player it is worthwhile.
For some it's a beloved IP, one reason I play FO76 is I love post apocalyptic worlds and IMO it's the best available at present (In a limited market I'll grant) combined with a lore I have always loved.
I think FFXIV, ESO, UO and some others fall in this category.
Other techniques come into play, such as offering unique utility or convenience only available by sub, such as FO76 (or ESOs) unlimited crafting boxes / bags and private worlds which I would now find it hard to play without them.
As a "good or shit games" are such a relative and debateable terms I don't feel they are accurate qualifiers.
Perhaps in the sense the factors I mentioned above along with many others help a player determine which category a game falls into, for them at least.
I mean, people mock my FO1st Sub, but c'mon, you sub to Daybreak games?
No accounting for taste, ehh?
?
Pretty much always have , great deal , and i enjoy the games EQ , EQ2 PS2 , DCUO .. Thats alot of game ...
Plus it keeps the Station Cash rolling in .. which has its uses...
I used to think subscription is the only way to go but nowadays I think all MMO's should have a basic and limited f2p model. The reason I changed my mind is because games used to be high quality but for a while now the market gets flooded with crap games. People are more hesitant now so I like to think it's a win win to offer some form of f2p which can be upgraded to subscription. Everyone can get a taste which is good for publishers and nobody has to commit which is good for consumers.
"I mean, even back in the heyday of the Sub era, there were many that
felt that after a time, they should no longer need to keep paying the
sub fee."
It depends 100% on how people look at it......Some look at a sub and break it down further...50 cents a day....2 cents an hour.....They make it sound like its very cheap, but it adds up....You wouldn't believe how many people have built billion dollar companies charging customers a few cents a day.......I played EQ from 99-05 and figure I spent around 1200 dollars with the subs and expansions.....There was no end to paying and I just couldn't justify going any further....There was no way I could continue playing video games that way, it just isn't cost prohibitive. Now when I play I want a game with either a one time fee (b2p) or no entry fee (f2p).....There is no way i am going to pay for the game, then get hit with another $15 charge to access it. I won't ever do that again.
I always wondered if a donation system would work for an MMO. Require a minimum 1$ for access (to get the credit card info and make it easier to donate more in the future).
No perks for plebs or whales, everyone gets access to everything regardless but you would be encouraged to donate more if you were enjoying the software and wanted to support it's continued development.
I ripped this idea from a lot of places. Like the free kernals, browser, websites that I use that ask me to donate (and I do).
Some restaurants tried this and are failing horribly.
I always wondered if a donation system would work for an MMO. Require a minimum 1$ for access (to get the credit card info and make it easier to donate more in the future).
No perks for plebs or whales, everyone gets access to everything regardless but you would be encouraged to donate more if you were enjoying the software and wanted to support it's continued development.
I ripped this idea from a lot of places. Like the free kernals, browser, websites that I use that ask me to donate (and I do).
Some restaurants tried this and are failing horribly.
My first thought was a soup kitchen or food bank, but that is not the kind of restaurant I think you are referring too.
It is an interesting concept for a restaurant.
A high end vegan place near me (Greenspace) basically told the city they are moving to a more affluent neighborhood. I can find the actually transcript but they basically called the residents cheap.
Makes me think of games like second life or star citizen. But the internet doesn't have the same locality issues that face a brick and mortar.
For some it's a beloved IP, one reason I play FO76 [...]
Other techniques come into play, such as offering unique utility or convenience only available by sub, such as FO76 (or ESOs) unlimited crafting boxes / bags and private worlds which I would now find it hard to play without them.
As a "good or shit games" are such a relative and debateable terms I don't feel they are accurate qualifiers. [...] I mean, people mock my FO1st Sub, but c'mon, you sub to Daybreak games?
May seem relative, but actually that's the main qualifier, how "good or shit" is the game the first place
Beloved IP falls behind that either, I love ES but wouldn't poke ESO with a stick, same with Ultimas and UO (and Ascension), or Fallout and the 4 and 76. (even Shelter was more fun).
On the other hand, that's a subjective qualifier, only applies to me. Since I wouldn't play 76, obviously I don't care its sub. But I'd never mock someone for their First, if they like the game (weird, but what do I know?), then it's an offer with actual weight behind it.
Sure, locking the not-so-private (bugs ) world behind the paywall was a shady move, imo.
As for All Access, what Scorchien wrote. One might find DBG games shit and stay away, that's the subjective part. However, those who enjoys the games, sub is pretty much needed for the longer play. Sub ain't just convenience like your Fallout First, where you can live without the unlimited crafting, the travel, or the private world.
With DBG only PS2's sub is on that convenience level. In EQ / EQ2, and even moreso in DCUO you pretty much need the sub, for the money cap and the trading (and the content access).
In today's environment I believe Devs should offer multiple ways to pay/play their games, so the players have the option to choose whichever method works best for them.
ESO seems to have struck a good balance from what I've seen. I'm sure there are others out there.
LOTRO, I've been a Lifetimer for so long, I don't remember how it was to sub to that game...! ha
I also did a lifetime sub to The Secret World, played the shit out of it for like 9 months and have been back very briefly to check out Secret World Legends, but I'm not sure how that works now.
I'm not sure how a lifetime sub option works for a Dev, but it's great for me. I just don't seem them often any more, so that's prbly my answer!
For some it's a beloved IP, one reason I play FO76 [...]
Other techniques come into play, such as offering unique utility or convenience only available by sub, such as FO76 (or ESOs) unlimited crafting boxes / bags and private worlds which I would now find it hard to play without them.
As a "good or shit games" are such a relative and debateable terms I don't feel they are accurate qualifiers. [...] I mean, people mock my FO1st Sub, but c'mon, you sub to Daybreak games?
May seem relative, but actually that's the main qualifier, how "good or shit" is the game the first place
Beloved IP falls behind that either, I love ES but wouldn't poke ESO with a stick, same with Ultimas and UO (and Ascension), or Fallout and the 4 and 76. (even Shelter was more fun).
On the other hand, that's a subjective qualifier, only applies to me. Since I wouldn't play 76, obviously I don't care its sub. But I'd never mock someone for their First, if they like the game (weird, but what do I know?), then it's an offer with actual weight behind it.
Sure, locking the not-so-private (bugs ) world behind the paywall was a shady move, imo.
As for All Access, what Scorchien wrote. One might find DBG games shit and stay away, that's the subjective part. However, those who enjoys the games, sub is pretty much needed for the longer play. Sub ain't just convenience like your Fallout First, where you can live without the unlimited crafting, the travel, or the private world.
With DBG only PS2's sub is on that convenience level. In EQ / EQ2, and even moreso in DCUO you pretty much need the sub, for the money cap and the trading (and the content access).
Wouldnt it be a kick in the teeth if a developer ever decided to lock a better, less buggy version of their game behind some sort of paywall?
Play on a persistent test server for free (forever) but pay a sub for the final production release. (Assuming it actually was better)
I guess if anyone might try such a thing it probably would be Bethesda, well except I think its beyond their abilty to deliver quality code, unless of course the Prod version allows player Mods or something while test doesn't.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wouldnt it be a kick in the teeth if a developer ever decided to lock a better, less buggy version of their game behind some sort of paywall?
Play on a persistent test server for free (forever) but pay a sub for the final production release. (Assuming it actually was better)
Already here, and not even free, they make you pay the "full price" with cash shop, etc. - Cryptic,
Mainly Neverwinter, but for some extent STO as well.
In Neverwinter, as a PC player, you basically play on a livetest server, and after all the bugs, stupid mechanics, way off prices, etc. are fixed, only then release they the finalised console version of a Module.
Of course as a PC player you get nothing in return of playing a buggy mess for weeks, the time you spent on forum/tickets reporting the problems, or when you try to reason with them how stupid some of their design decisions are... you're just their unpaid Q&A thrall.
Did anyone like paying the Sub? Like enjoyed the idea of spending $130 annually to play a game and knowing they were always and forever going to need to keep paying that to keep playing the game?
I mean, even back in the heyday of the Sub era, there were many that felt that after a time, they should no longer need to keep paying the sub fee.
As I used in above examples of games like WoW. A Loyal player will have spent near $3,000 in sub fees just to play the game, and still need to keep paying the sub to continue playing, and this does not include Expansions packs or the box game.
Personally, I could never go back to that.
Nothing but love for the people that want, I hope you find that perfect game to support.
In all honesty, I was very mixed about it. I did not mind paying $15/month for access, just like my phone, electricity, insurance, rent/mortgage, and cable bills. It was just another bill to me.
What I didn't like was buying expansions. I always figured that my $15/month should include expansions, too. I figured I was paying that money to keep the game running and evolving. How naive I was (and still am). <shrug>
The bottom line, though, was that back then I actually enjoyed my time in the games. I can't say that with MMOs of today or the morphed wrecks that the old MMOs have become. I prefer a set subscription for 100% of the game with no immersion breaking out-of-game cash shop shenanigans.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
f2p is, was and always will be crap. their a reason everyone that made a game wanted to join the mobile market, it was established early on that it was acceptable to charge a lot for near nothing. people hated once a year $40-60 expansions that could be bought later, cheaper? now you get monthly $10 to $100 packs in mobile games and their seen as good deals... and the best part is? their no upper limit ! you can spend thousands and still spend more to play the same game but hey at least we don't have to spend $15 a month for a sub to play a game, what a evolution .
Did anyone like paying the Sub? Like enjoyed the idea of spending $130 annually to play a game and knowing they were always and forever going to need to keep paying that to keep playing the game?
I did!
Back then, I viewed it as a way to save money.
When I was playing SWG, LotRO, WAR or even SWTOR when I subscribed, I viewed it as a way to save money! £8.99 a month and I got to play an unlimited amount of time in a game that was vastly superior to any single player game, and I got to play it with likeminded friends! To me, it was the pinacle of computer gaming, and I only needed one game to play at a time.
Before MMOs, I could easily average £30 a month on games (thats not even a high amount compared to lot of people). After MMOs, I now average maybe £25 a month on games.
But during those golden mmo years, my gaming expenditure dropped to a 1/3rd of what it was before. So yeh, for my preferences and playstyle back then, it was amazingly good value for money. I didn't care about not being able to play if I dropped my sub, because I knew I would only drop my sub if I no longer wanted to play.
When it comes to assessing business models, however, it's not really the money that bothers me but the effect on the game. I care about online communities and, in the past, got immense pleasure from being a part of server communities. I loved the server events, I loved the guild rivalries, I loved the PvP rivalries, I loved running a guild. It has been my experience that communities in a subscription-only game are simply vastly superior to communities in a F2P game. And when I say vastly, I mean vastly. I was playing both LotRO and SWTOR when they switched to F2P and the quality of the community plummeted overnight. It was horrible to watch. Likewise, every F2P MMO I've tried has had a terrible community too, to the point where the sorts of things I enjoyed rarely occur, or if they do, the social side just sucks.
If a game was F2P and somehow managed to retain that sense of community (as well as be a quality game), I'd probably be a lot more forgiving of it. But, I've yet to see that happen and I doubt it is possible. A subscription ensures that only the people who really want to be there are actually there, so the players are more motivated and polite because they want to have a good time.
Do you think there is a correlation with the sub model dying and the decline of MMORPGs? I dont think its the only reason but part of the problem. But again there are many issues. Personally i love cool cosmetics items, mounts, etc. It makes it fun if i can actually acquire them by playing the game instead of buying them off a store which i never buy stuff off a cash shop. Wish we would go back to the sub model.
This has always been something that baffled me.
I hear players talk about how they would spend upwards to, I think the highest I have heard to date was like 30 a month fee to play a game, where they get nothing but access to the game, which they will lose the second they cease to pay their subscription fee.
But If access to the game is given to them for free, even if they are playing and enjoying the game, they won't spend that self same $30 a month for some extra perks to keep the game going.
Never Understood this to be honest, and I don't think I ever will, and I am not sure if I even want to try.
because you are not understanding what they are willing to pay for.
First off, when people say that they would pay "upwards to ... $" they are talking about paying for what they consider a great game. Not a mediocre game or a poor one.
What they don't want to do is play a game where road blocks are thrown in their face and they now have to open their wallet. They want the whole game to be right there. Because the feeling is as if the game company is looking to screw you over once they hook you. It's that feeling that players don't like. I don't like it.
So it's not the money. It's how game companies go about getting their money. It also opens the the possibility, in certain games, for someone with a larger wallet to get more than they and in some cases be more competitive.
As far as another statement you made about "does anyone even like paying per month ..." well, no one "likes" to pay for anything.
Do you like paying a mortgage? Or rent? Do you "like" paying for a concert? Things cost money because people want to make a living. Do you think that your company "likes" paying people? Oh sure, any good company wants to support its workers but if you would ask a company "would you prefer to pay your workers or have them work for you for free" they would pick the latter.
And since most monthly fees have historically been less than buying a cup of coffee per day (let alone two) it's really not a lot of money.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Did anyone like paying the Sub? Like enjoyed the idea of spending $130 annually to play a game and knowing they were always and forever going to need to keep paying that to keep playing the game?
A good question. Honestly, I can only repeat what Al and Sovrath said.
Didn't "like" it, but simply that's how it went at that time so I rather accepted it.
Since I hopped around my favourite games even back then, my main gripe wasn't the money itself (I don't mind paying for my games, I still used to sub for games occasionally), but the lack of access.
As a rule of thumb I only sub one game at a time, which required cautious planning ahead of which game of mine I'll play which month...
When DDO and LotRO switched, I was very supportive (can't show it since I wasn't posting here at that time ), and not for the savings/freeloading, simply just for the ability of logging in even when I'm subbed to an another game at that month, and chat with friends, or listen to a concert, etc. I really liked the model as well, with the focus on "pay how you want, when you want" instead of later games' "play everything for free and we'll milk you later" approach.
In this sense the sub part is maybe unnecessary for your question, it could be simply: do you like to pay? (the sub, the shop prices, etc.)
I'm sure most people would either say no, or "it's ok if the price is right/fair"
That's what fuelling the subscription nostagia as well, people crave the subscription not because it was enjoyable to pay the monthly fee, but compared to present cash shop prices and monetization schemes, or on the other side the heavily gimped free experience, they feel even the flat fee each month was better, or more honest.
Did anyone like paying the Sub? Like enjoyed the idea of spending $130 annually to play a game and knowing they were always and forever going to need to keep paying that to keep playing the game?
A good question. Honestly, I can only repeat what Al and Sovrath said.
Didn't "like" it, but simply that's how it went at that time so I rather accepted it.
Since I hopped around my favourite games even back then, my main gripe wasn't the money itself (I don't mind paying for my games, I still used to sub for games occasionally), but the lack of access.
As a rule of thumb I only sub one game at a time, which required cautious planning ahead of which game of mine I'll play which month...
When DDO and LotRO switched, I was very supportive (can't show it since I wasn't posting here at that time ), and not for the savings/freeloading, simply just for the ability of logging in even when I'm subbed to an another game at that month, and chat with friends, or listen to a concert, etc. I really liked the model as well, with the focus on "pay how you want, when you want" instead of later games' "play everything for free and we'll milk you later" approach.
In this sense the sub part is maybe unnecessary for your question, it could be simply: do you like to pay? (the sub, the shop prices, etc.)
I'm sure most people would either say no, or "it's ok if the price is right/fair"
That's what fuelling the subscription nostagia as well, people crave the subscription not because it was enjoyable to pay the monthly fee, but compared to present cash shop prices and monetization schemes, or on the other side the heavily gimped free experience, they feel even the flat fee each month was better, or more honest.
I think the nostalgia part of the old subscription model is for the most part my $15 monthly sub gave me access to every part and every item in the game, with no additional purchase required.
These days it's nearly impossible to do the same, and certainly not anywhere nearly as cheaply.
Take POE, in order to obtain every single cosmetic, or even just 25% of them it could cost you thousands if not tens of thousands to obtain them, and worse, they are all bound to ones account, no trading permitted to other players.
True, POE devs probably provide a ten fold increase in the number of cosmetic looks vs the old sub model, but they also went too far the other way, creating almost no decent looking gear sets earned in game,making you look like a murder hobo unless you are willing to shell out substantial cash.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
$15 for dozens of entertaining hours per month is great RoI for me.
$0 for dozens of entertaining hours per month would also be great.
I have no problem paying if I'm getting what I feel is my money's worth out of it.
When I stop having fun, or start fading away or have an itch to try other games I stop the sub.
I don't have a lot of disposable game time anymore, so if I'm subbing to a specific game I tend to stick with only playing that game, which usually equates to 1-3 months at a time.
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No perks for plebs or whales, everyone gets access to everything regardless but you would be encouraged to donate more if you were enjoying the software and wanted to support it's continued development.
I ripped this idea from a lot of places. Like the free kernals, browser, websites that I use that ask me to donate (and I do).
See, DDO, was my first F2P MMO, with their plan where you buy Content, was a world changers for me. Now, I loved that game when I started playing it, it was my kind of game through and through.
So it took me a grand total of 1 day playing DDO before jumped all in, and bought the sub, paid a year in advance because it was cheaper, and just dove into the game like it was any other MMO I have played.
I was loving it.
Now, after 2 years, I looked at how much I was spending, I was paying the Sub, and I was also buying stuff in the store. All of this was my choice, and I had no issues with supporting a game I was enjoying, I was not driving myself broke by any means, this was all within my budget, so, no worries. But, when it came time to go into that 3rd year of sub, I asked myself, "Why was I paying this? I'f I had bought all the content as they sold it, I would have spent less, and had anytime access"
See, the question not just how much I was paying, but why I was paying it.
So, I broke down the numbers, saw what it was going to cost me to get what I wanted, and, yes, while it ended up costing the same few hundred dollars I would have spent in Sub fees over the years, it was a one time purchase, and from that point on, I was only going to need to spend more money on the game if I wanted more of the game, as opposed to simply wanting to play what I already had.
It was like, a moment of awakening, Here I was, playing an MMO, where I could buy the Box Game, and play the Box Game, without any additional fees of hooks, and it was just that simple.
I could take breaks, come back anytime I wanted, play as little or as much as I liked, I was suddenly in control as opposed to being a slave to the sub to play a game I already paid for.
That is changed my whole way of looking at the games I played, and it was at that point I became a true believer in the cash shop.
Now, sure some games try to bend you over the cash shop, but, I find the more invasive the shop is, the less I play the game. Like for example, in BDO, the shop was always shoved in my face, in GW2 I was 2 days in and level 40 (I was just enjoying screwing around in that game, it was just kind of mellow fun) before I figured out the Auction House and the Gem Shop were on the same button in the control panel and I could pull them up any time I wanted.
So.. yah.. the cash shop also depends on the game as well, and how they put it in.
But then again.. in GW2 their was people crying that mount skins (not mounts, just cosmetic skins) where P2W. Which should kinda give an idea how little that game as in any kind of real P2W in the cash shop when their players get to calling cosmetics P2W.
Just saying from my view of things.
it was the most fair thing..
and it kept out those people that join free games with ruining others experiences in mind.
in the rest of the software based world
subscription model is booming..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
For some it's a beloved IP, one reason I play FO76 is I love post apocalyptic worlds and IMO it's the best available at present (In a limited market I'll grant) combined with a lore I have always loved.
I think FFXIV, ESO, UO and some others fall in this category.
Other techniques come into play, such as offering unique utility or convenience only available by sub, such as FO76 (or ESOs) unlimited crafting boxes / bags and private worlds which I would now find it hard to play without them.
As a "good or shit games" are such a relative and debateable terms I don't feel they are accurate qualifiers.
Perhaps in the sense the factors I mentioned above along with many others help a player determine which category a game falls into, for them at least.
I mean, people mock my FO1st Sub, but c'mon, you sub to Daybreak games?
No accounting for taste, ehh?
?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The reason I changed my mind is because games used to be high quality but for a while now the market gets flooded with crap games. People are more hesitant now so I like to think it's a win win to offer some form of f2p which can be upgraded to subscription. Everyone can get a taste which is good for publishers and nobody has to commit which is good for consumers.
It is an interesting concept for a restaurant.
A high end vegan place near me (Greenspace) basically told the city they are moving to a more affluent neighborhood. I can find the actually transcript but they basically called the residents cheap.
Makes me think of games like second life or star citizen. But the internet doesn't have the same locality issues that face a brick and mortar.
Ones like these. If their is no benefit to giving over cash people have been shown to not wanting to pay.
ESO seems to have struck a good balance from what I've seen. I'm sure there are others out there.
LOTRO, I've been a Lifetimer for so long, I don't remember how it was to sub to that game...! ha
I also did a lifetime sub to The Secret World, played the shit out of it for like 9 months and have been back very briefly to check out Secret World Legends, but I'm not sure how that works now.
I'm not sure how a lifetime sub option works for a Dev, but it's great for me. I just don't seem them often any more, so that's prbly my answer!
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
Play on a persistent test server for free (forever) but pay a sub for the final production release. (Assuming it actually was better)
I guess if anyone might try such a thing it probably would be Bethesda, well except I think its beyond their abilty to deliver quality code, unless of course the Prod version allows player Mods or something while test doesn't.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What I didn't like was buying expansions. I always figured that my $15/month should include expansions, too. I figured I was paying that money to keep the game running and evolving. How naive I was (and still am). <shrug>
The bottom line, though, was that back then I actually enjoyed my time in the games. I can't say that with MMOs of today or the morphed wrecks that the old MMOs have become. I prefer a set subscription for 100% of the game with no immersion breaking out-of-game cash shop shenanigans.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
First off, when people say that they would pay "upwards to ... $" they are talking about paying for what they consider a great game. Not a mediocre game or a poor one.
What they don't want to do is play a game where road blocks are thrown in their face and they now have to open their wallet. They want the whole game to be right there. Because the feeling is as if the game company is looking to screw you over once they hook you. It's that feeling that players don't like. I don't like it.
So it's not the money. It's how game companies go about getting their money. It also opens the the possibility, in certain games, for someone with a larger wallet to get more than they and in some cases be more competitive.
As far as another statement you made about "does anyone even like paying per month ..." well, no one "likes" to pay for anything.
Do you like paying a mortgage? Or rent? Do you "like" paying for a concert? Things cost money because people want to make a living. Do you think that your company "likes" paying people? Oh sure, any good company wants to support its workers but if you would ask a company "would you prefer to pay your workers or have them work for you for free" they would pick the latter.
And since most monthly fees have historically been less than buying a cup of coffee per day (let alone two) it's really not a lot of money.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
These days it's nearly impossible to do the same, and certainly not anywhere nearly as cheaply.
Take POE, in order to obtain every single cosmetic, or even just 25% of them it could cost you thousands if not tens of thousands to obtain them, and worse, they are all bound to ones account, no trading permitted to other players.
True, POE devs probably provide a ten fold increase in the number of cosmetic looks vs the old sub model, but they also went too far the other way, creating almost no decent looking gear sets earned in game,making you look like a murder hobo unless you are willing to shell out substantial cash.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon