Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Solving the FTP dilemma

1235»

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    laserit said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    laserit said:
    Po_gg said:
    laserit said:
    If so, I'd say we are part way there. In a model like Tokyo's train system you could use Xbox games pass with an Origin access subscription
    And that's exactly why it won't be a thing in the near future - and why I don't like the streaming analog either, where one subscription can give you access to a vast amount of content. With games, most studios have only one game to offer for that sub.
    DBG has All Access, which is a good thing - but only for 4 games still.

    For the cross-companies it won't work not just because of competition, but most about metrics. And demand.
    In the subway's case, each line is needed and crowded, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And they're pretty much in monopoly, if a person wants to go from A to B, there's one line suited, unless he wants to make huge detours. So, each company will have its decent share from the pie.

    Games on the other hand are optional, and in overabundance, competing for the player's time. Also, especially since the f2p switch happened, they don't state any metrics at all, except some peaks for marketing reasons. You need external sources (like steamchart, I mean, who plays MMORPGs through steam, right?), diving into financial reports, etc. if you want to know anything about the metrics.

    For a similar coalition (unless it's within the same company, like DBG's case) they all should disclose accurate data on how many players have played, for how long - never gonna happen :D 

    When DBG took SSG the first question was for many (myself included) will LotRO and DDO be integrated into All Access? Or at least a shared subscription between LotRO and DDO?
    Nope, even that merge didn't happen...
    Great reply :)

    I agree with your assessment, I'm under no illusions.

    Within the last three months, I've signed up for Origin Access and Xbox game pass. A one year subscription has cost me a new release game and a half for each service. I've already gotten more than that value from both services. I think it going to end up being quite the bargain and I don't think I'll be outright purchasing many games this year.

    I think a lot of the smaller developers are going to be financially forced into services like these.

    I'm paying a lot less money for game play, pretty much all the companies have been telling me for a few years now that even though I pay $80cad to purchase a single game that I don't really own the copy, I only rent it.

    I say have it their way. I won't outright purchase anymore, I'll subscribe for a fraction of the cost.

    Except for those exceptional games of course. But for me these days, those games are few and far between. 
    Unlimited data access internet service?
    Yes, I'm not aware of any internet service in Canada that doesn't have unlimited data these days. So it makes no difference whether I purchase or subscribe.

    Canada is very different in that regards to the U.S.

    We don't have the population base of the U.S. we have a geographically huge country, infrastructure is subsidized by the government (we the taxpayers) We have to do some things that way. It would cost far too much for far too little return to make any business sense for a company to build the necessary infrastructure. Its the way things have historically been done here in the country with electricity, telephone etc.

    Its the stated goal of the government to have high speed internet in every community in this country. 
    Won't the new SpaceX and other satellite services provide this for many?
    Scot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,827
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    laserit said:
    Po_gg said:
    laserit said:
    If so, I'd say we are part way there. In a model like Tokyo's train system you could use Xbox games pass with an Origin access subscription
    And that's exactly why it won't be a thing in the near future - and why I don't like the streaming analog either, where one subscription can give you access to a vast amount of content. With games, most studios have only one game to offer for that sub.
    DBG has All Access, which is a good thing - but only for 4 games still.

    For the cross-companies it won't work not just because of competition, but most about metrics. And demand.
    In the subway's case, each line is needed and crowded, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And they're pretty much in monopoly, if a person wants to go from A to B, there's one line suited, unless he wants to make huge detours. So, each company will have its decent share from the pie.

    Games on the other hand are optional, and in overabundance, competing for the player's time. Also, especially since the f2p switch happened, they don't state any metrics at all, except some peaks for marketing reasons. You need external sources (like steamchart, I mean, who plays MMORPGs through steam, right?), diving into financial reports, etc. if you want to know anything about the metrics.

    For a similar coalition (unless it's within the same company, like DBG's case) they all should disclose accurate data on how many players have played, for how long - never gonna happen :D 

    When DBG took SSG the first question was for many (myself included) will LotRO and DDO be integrated into All Access? Or at least a shared subscription between LotRO and DDO?
    Nope, even that merge didn't happen...
    Great reply :)

    I agree with your assessment, I'm under no illusions.

    Within the last three months, I've signed up for Origin Access and Xbox game pass. A one year subscription has cost me a new release game and a half for each service. I've already gotten more than that value from both services. I think it going to end up being quite the bargain and I don't think I'll be outright purchasing many games this year.

    I think a lot of the smaller developers are going to be financially forced into services like these.

    I'm paying a lot less money for game play, pretty much all the companies have been telling me for a few years now that even though I pay $80cad to purchase a single game that I don't really own the copy, I only rent it.

    I say have it their way. I won't outright purchase anymore, I'll subscribe for a fraction of the cost.

    Except for those exceptional games of course. But for me these days, those games are few and far between. 
    Unlimited data access internet service?
    Yes, I'm not aware of any internet service in Canada that doesn't have unlimited data these days. So it makes no difference whether I purchase or subscribe.

    Canada is very different in that regards to the U.S.

    We don't have the population base of the U.S. we have a geographically huge country, infrastructure is subsidized by the government (we the taxpayers) We have to do some things that way. It would cost far too much for far too little return to make any business sense for a company to build the necessary infrastructure. Its the way things have historically been done here in the country with electricity, telephone etc.

    Its the stated goal of the government to have high speed internet in every community in this country. 
    Won't the new SpaceX and other satellite services provide this for many?
    Possibly, but mini satellites are the latest thing for luddite activists to harp on about, hopefully they are ignored and not feted by the media as usually happens.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    laserit said:
    Po_gg said:
    laserit said:
    If so, I'd say we are part way there. In a model like Tokyo's train system you could use Xbox games pass with an Origin access subscription
    And that's exactly why it won't be a thing in the near future - and why I don't like the streaming analog either, where one subscription can give you access to a vast amount of content. With games, most studios have only one game to offer for that sub.
    DBG has All Access, which is a good thing - but only for 4 games still.

    For the cross-companies it won't work not just because of competition, but most about metrics. And demand.
    In the subway's case, each line is needed and crowded, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And they're pretty much in monopoly, if a person wants to go from A to B, there's one line suited, unless he wants to make huge detours. So, each company will have its decent share from the pie.

    Games on the other hand are optional, and in overabundance, competing for the player's time. Also, especially since the f2p switch happened, they don't state any metrics at all, except some peaks for marketing reasons. You need external sources (like steamchart, I mean, who plays MMORPGs through steam, right?), diving into financial reports, etc. if you want to know anything about the metrics.

    For a similar coalition (unless it's within the same company, like DBG's case) they all should disclose accurate data on how many players have played, for how long - never gonna happen :D 

    When DBG took SSG the first question was for many (myself included) will LotRO and DDO be integrated into All Access? Or at least a shared subscription between LotRO and DDO?
    Nope, even that merge didn't happen...
    Great reply :)

    I agree with your assessment, I'm under no illusions.

    Within the last three months, I've signed up for Origin Access and Xbox game pass. A one year subscription has cost me a new release game and a half for each service. I've already gotten more than that value from both services. I think it going to end up being quite the bargain and I don't think I'll be outright purchasing many games this year.

    I think a lot of the smaller developers are going to be financially forced into services like these.

    I'm paying a lot less money for game play, pretty much all the companies have been telling me for a few years now that even though I pay $80cad to purchase a single game that I don't really own the copy, I only rent it.

    I say have it their way. I won't outright purchase anymore, I'll subscribe for a fraction of the cost.

    Except for those exceptional games of course. But for me these days, those games are few and far between. 
    Unlimited data access internet service?
    Yes, I'm not aware of any internet service in Canada that doesn't have unlimited data these days. So it makes no difference whether I purchase or subscribe.

    Canada is very different in that regards to the U.S.

    We don't have the population base of the U.S. we have a geographically huge country, infrastructure is subsidized by the government (we the taxpayers) We have to do some things that way. It would cost far too much for far too little return to make any business sense for a company to build the necessary infrastructure. Its the way things have historically been done here in the country with electricity, telephone etc.

    Its the stated goal of the government to have high speed internet in every community in this country. 
    Won't the new SpaceX and other satellite services provide this for many?
    We've had satellite internet available for about 20 years give or take. I considered the service about that time ago. Back then the incoming was 4 times faster than dial up and the outgoing needed to be done through dial up. I would think it has vastly improved since then but I haven't had a need to find out.

    I play mmorpg's and watch netflix in some pretty remote beautiful places while camping through my cell phone. Unlimited data cell phone plans are common these days and some of the places I get highspeed internet through my cell phone quite frankly blows me away. ;)
    KyleranAlBQuirky

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member RarePosts: 620
    edited January 2020
    BruceYee said:
    FTP for PC games started off wrong for the idea of having a certain percentage of the playerbase pay the bill for the rest and that wrong still to this day has not been corrected. Just look at all the PC game companies in the west that went ftp then crumbled. IMO it was not the whole welfare gaming system philosophy but rather the lack of developer acknowledgment of the importance of the paying players and that's why to this day even in this thread that POE player still believe ftp players are just as valuable with some out of this world theory as to why and no fault to him cause most of the time devs spew that nonsense themselves. I've seen old Trion do it many times. There's one trove stream where they were asked about the whales and how important to the game they are and the devs said some peace and love response like "all our players are important", Gazillion said similar things and where are those companies now. Imagine being a whale who dropped 10k on trove or Marvel heroes then the devs fail to even acknowledge your contribution. Lack of paying player appreciation is the real "ftp dilemma" for PC games.
    Sometimes I think back on those days when I regularly paid $30 for a game or $15 for 1 month, and I ask why it changed. I don't accept the usual explanations. I think the reasons are more fundamental. The cost of computing back then was more expensive, be it for hd space or ram or cpu or networking bandwidth or server resources. (Mario Brothers today would cost about $100. Just several hours of online play might cost $20. $20/month for standard 5kb/s dialup access.) What has happened is costs fell; companies got better at developing the software framework to enable their ventures, and hundreds/thousands of these companies competing causes things to progress further. The result is MMO's don't feel a financial burden anymore when f2p player logs in, as they would in the past. They also allow the f2p players because of "world theory". MMO's with extra f2p players creates a better illusion of community and increase immersion. Things still have to be paid for, so the strategy now is creating a payment model for only a part of the player base. They have to identify which players will pay. Is it the ones with money?  The ones who work? Is the creative ones? The roleplayers? The power players? They have to know who'll pay, so they can be confident in profits. They also have to know how to achieve this without ruining the gameplay for f2p players.

    It seems more complicated now, but that's modern world. So much more schooling, so many more rules in everything. Back then it was more about common sense and thinking on your feet. Things are more planned now.

    Especially keep the technological progress in mind. Below some examples:
    Bandwidth for pc (not server):
    1999: $20/5kbs
    2019: ¢22.5/5kbs (89x more expensive in 1999)
    HD space for pc (not server):
    1999: ¢18/megabyte
    2019: ¢0.00247/megabyte (7287x more expensive in 1999)

    That's just a taste. CPU's also saw a large increase in their ability to process cycles, especially for parallelizable code. In 1999 there were no multicore cpus being sold. That was years later. There mighth ave been multi-cpu specialized boards, but I'm unaware whether any MMO would have used them in their servers. Evenso, they would have lost the benefit of having all the cores in one cpu.

    So again, one more player logged in isn't a big deal anymore, especially if the player probably wouldn't have paid anyway. The reality is a fair number of potential players aren't spending or spend very little. This has mostly always been the case. (e.g. I played games 20 years ago for a long time without spending. If I had to give discrete MMO examples, I'd offer Ultima ONine player servers or small amateur projects like Daimonin or obscure MUDs I can't remember their name. Diablo 1/2 weren't free, but they were cheap and players would play them for a looonnnggg time.)

    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    laserit said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    Unlimited data access internet service?
    Yes, I'm not aware of any internet service in Canada that doesn't have unlimited data these days. So it makes no difference whether I purchase or subscribe.

    Canada is very different in that regards to the U.S.
    EU is inbetween in general, closer to Canada (though varies from country to country), especially where fiber-to-home is more common.

    The net over cable is "unlimited" (with some very basic, social offers maybe excluded), while mobile net as a rule of thumb is usually data capped, with the highest packages excluded, those have "unlimited" data too.

    Both cases in brackets, because there's a fine print usually, stating unlimited but within the sane tresholds. If you do hundreds of TBs in a month, that could be an extreme peak, just an exception and fine, but if you do it 2-3 consecutive months, you might get a temporary data cap.
    laseritAlBQuirky
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    laserit said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    laserit said:
    Po_gg said:
    laserit said:
    If so, I'd say we are part way there. In a model like Tokyo's train system you could use Xbox games pass with an Origin access subscription
    And that's exactly why it won't be a thing in the near future - and why I don't like the streaming analog either, where one subscription can give you access to a vast amount of content. With games, most studios have only one game to offer for that sub.
    DBG has All Access, which is a good thing - but only for 4 games still.

    For the cross-companies it won't work not just because of competition, but most about metrics. And demand.
    In the subway's case, each line is needed and crowded, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And they're pretty much in monopoly, if a person wants to go from A to B, there's one line suited, unless he wants to make huge detours. So, each company will have its decent share from the pie.

    Games on the other hand are optional, and in overabundance, competing for the player's time. Also, especially since the f2p switch happened, they don't state any metrics at all, except some peaks for marketing reasons. You need external sources (like steamchart, I mean, who plays MMORPGs through steam, right?), diving into financial reports, etc. if you want to know anything about the metrics.

    For a similar coalition (unless it's within the same company, like DBG's case) they all should disclose accurate data on how many players have played, for how long - never gonna happen :D 

    When DBG took SSG the first question was for many (myself included) will LotRO and DDO be integrated into All Access? Or at least a shared subscription between LotRO and DDO?
    Nope, even that merge didn't happen...
    Great reply :)

    I agree with your assessment, I'm under no illusions.

    Within the last three months, I've signed up for Origin Access and Xbox game pass. A one year subscription has cost me a new release game and a half for each service. I've already gotten more than that value from both services. I think it going to end up being quite the bargain and I don't think I'll be outright purchasing many games this year.

    I think a lot of the smaller developers are going to be financially forced into services like these.

    I'm paying a lot less money for game play, pretty much all the companies have been telling me for a few years now that even though I pay $80cad to purchase a single game that I don't really own the copy, I only rent it.

    I say have it their way. I won't outright purchase anymore, I'll subscribe for a fraction of the cost.

    Except for those exceptional games of course. But for me these days, those games are few and far between. 
    Unlimited data access internet service?
    Yes, I'm not aware of any internet service in Canada that doesn't have unlimited data these days. So it makes no difference whether I purchase or subscribe.

    Canada is very different in that regards to the U.S.

    We don't have the population base of the U.S. we have a geographically huge country, infrastructure is subsidized by the government (we the taxpayers) We have to do some things that way. It would cost far too much for far too little return to make any business sense for a company to build the necessary infrastructure. Its the way things have historically been done here in the country with electricity, telephone etc.

    Its the stated goal of the government to have high speed internet in every community in this country. 
    Telus Optik has limits except for their 150 Mbit plan or as an extra $ option for the lower speed plans. Mind you, the cap for the lower speed plans (I have the 75 Mbit plan because they couldn't make 150 work at my house) is humongous and I have never come anywhere near the cap with constant streaming and a lot of game downloading. Still, they do have a cap.
    laseritAlBQuirky
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    I would be interested to see a model where MMORPG are like Neverwinter Nights.  Where you have the base assets but the servers and worlds, classes and etc are built from scratch.  The server owners pay a fee to developers, then chargers the players.  I think players charging players would result in fairer pricing models 
    AlBQuirky
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    I would be interested to see a model where MMORPG are like Neverwinter Nights.  Where you have the base assets but the servers and worlds, classes and etc are built from scratch.  The server owners pay a fee to developers, then chargers the players.  I think players charging players would result in fairer pricing models 

    Maybe in an ideal world.  However, that whole "players charging players" thing would radically fall on its face.  I think there are just too many people would look to make designing a scenario/module into their career, believe they are doing a bang-up job of it, think they should be making $17.3 million per year, and charge accordingly.

    (And how would the developers of the system engine get paid?  I know if I were developing an engine for others to generate revenue, I'd want a piece of that action).



    AlBQuirky

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    I would be interested to see a model where MMORPG are like Neverwinter Nights.  Where you have the base assets but the servers and worlds, classes and etc are built from scratch.  The server owners pay a fee to developers, then chargers the players.  I think players charging players would result in fairer pricing models 
    Turbine tried a similar thing with the official AC private servers, but it never really took off, and soon after the SSG split happened, with leaving AC behind, which resulted its demise...
    AlBQuirky
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    Mendel said:
    I would be interested to see a model where MMORPG are like Neverwinter Nights.  Where you have the base assets but the servers and worlds, classes and etc are built from scratch.  The server owners pay a fee to developers, then chargers the players.  I think players charging players would result in fairer pricing models 

    Maybe in an ideal world.  However, that whole "players charging players" thing would radically fall on its face.  I think there are just too many people would look to make designing a scenario/module into their career, believe they are doing a bang-up job of it, think they should be making $17.3 million per year, and charge accordingly.

    (And how would the developers of the system engine get paid?  I know if I were developing an engine for others to generate revenue, I'd want a piece of that action).



    I would assume there could be different means for the developer to charge like hosting the servers or license fee.
    AlBQuirky
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    laserit said:
    Po_gg said:
    laserit said:
    If so, I'd say we are part way there. In a model like Tokyo's train system you could use Xbox games pass with an Origin access subscription
    And that's exactly why it won't be a thing in the near future - and why I don't like the streaming analog either, where one subscription can give you access to a vast amount of content. With games, most studios have only one game to offer for that sub.
    DBG has All Access, which is a good thing - but only for 4 games still.

    For the cross-companies it won't work not just because of competition, but most about metrics. And demand.
    In the subway's case, each line is needed and crowded, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And they're pretty much in monopoly, if a person wants to go from A to B, there's one line suited, unless he wants to make huge detours. So, each company will have its decent share from the pie.

    Games on the other hand are optional, and in overabundance, competing for the player's time. Also, especially since the f2p switch happened, they don't state any metrics at all, except some peaks for marketing reasons. You need external sources (like steamchart, I mean, who plays MMORPGs through steam, right?), diving into financial reports, etc. if you want to know anything about the metrics.

    For a similar coalition (unless it's within the same company, like DBG's case) they all should disclose accurate data on how many players have played, for how long - never gonna happen :D 

    When DBG took SSG the first question was for many (myself included) will LotRO and DDO be integrated into All Access? Or at least a shared subscription between LotRO and DDO?
    Nope, even that merge didn't happen...
    Great reply :)

    I agree with your assessment, I'm under no illusions.

    Within the last three months, I've signed up for Origin Access and Xbox game pass. A one year subscription has cost me a new release game and a half for each service. I've already gotten more than that value from both services. I think it going to end up being quite the bargain and I don't think I'll be outright purchasing many games this year.

    I think a lot of the smaller developers are going to be financially forced into services like these.

    I'm paying a lot less money for game play, pretty much all the companies have been telling me for a few years now that even though I pay $80cad to purchase a single game that I don't really own the copy, I only rent it.

    I say have it their way. I won't outright purchase anymore, I'll subscribe for a fraction of the cost.

    Except for those exceptional games of course. But for me these days, those games are few and far between. 
    Unlimited data access internet service?
    Yes, I'm not aware of any internet service in Canada that doesn't have unlimited data these days. So it makes no difference whether I purchase or subscribe.

    Canada is very different in that regards to the U.S.

    We don't have the population base of the U.S. we have a geographically huge country, infrastructure is subsidized by the government (we the taxpayers) We have to do some things that way. It would cost far too much for far too little return to make any business sense for a company to build the necessary infrastructure. Its the way things have historically been done here in the country with electricity, telephone etc.

    Its the stated goal of the government to have high speed internet in every community in this country. 
    Telus Optik has limits except for their 150 Mbit plan or as an extra $ option for the lower speed plans. Mind you, the cap for the lower speed plans (I have the 75 Mbit plan because they couldn't make 150 work at my house) is humongous and I have never come anywhere near the cap with constant streaming and a lot of game downloading. Still, they do have a cap.
    Back when Shaw had limits, I'd constantly go way over my limit with 4 kids, a wife and I who are/were all heavy internet users. They never charged me for the extra data.

    I remember Telus charging an extra fee, somthing like $18.99 a month for unlimited data back then.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,517
    Mendel said:
    I would be interested to see a model where MMORPG are like Neverwinter Nights.  Where you have the base assets but the servers and worlds, classes and etc are built from scratch.  The server owners pay a fee to developers, then chargers the players.  I think players charging players would result in fairer pricing models 

    Maybe in an ideal world.  However, that whole "players charging players" thing would radically fall on its face.  I think there are just too many people would look to make designing a scenario/module into their career, believe they are doing a bang-up job of it, think they should be making $17.3 million per year, and charge accordingly.

    (And how would the developers of the system engine get paid?  I know if I were developing an engine for others to generate revenue, I'd want a piece of that action).



    I imagine a 10% processing fee applied, as all billings would need to go through them, as they provide the content tools, like how Roblox works.
    AlBQuirky
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 5,085
    Mendel said:
    Rather than trying to come up with new payment models where the players fully foot the bill, I'd rather see games partnering with other companies to provide advertising in the games.  [...]
    Worst. Idea. Ever.

    I certainly dont want to play a fantasy MMORPG and then suddenly stuble into a reallife advertisement.
    Asm0deusAlBQuirky
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 5,085
    I am wondering what country exactly we talk about in which people dont have bank accounts ?!?!?

    From the sound of these postings, it can only be the USA. For only the USA has people talking this way, since the USA lacks basic features of a civilized country, such as, I dunno, a working social state.

    AFAIK here in Europe everyone has a bank account. You're basically guaranteed to have one. No matter any ratings. Why would a bank refuse to give you an account if you have a bad rating, anyway ? They just wouldnt allow you to give any loan. Otherwise they have no risk.

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    I am wondering what country exactly we talk about in which people dont have bank accounts ?!?!?

    From the sound of these postings, it can only be the USA. For only the USA has people talking this way, since the USA lacks basic features of a civilized country, such as, I dunno, a working social state.

    AFAIK here in Europe everyone has a bank account. You're basically guaranteed to have one. No matter any ratings. Why would a bank refuse to give you an account if you have a bad rating, anyway ? They just wouldnt allow you to give any loan. Otherwise they have no risk.

    In South America is common that people do not use payments tied to a bank.  It is very common to use a boleto or prepaid cash card. This is also very common in parts of Asia (such as China).
    UngoodAlBQuirky
  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Mendel said:
    Rather than trying to come up with new payment models where the players fully foot the bill, I'd rather see games partnering with other companies to provide advertising in the games.  [...]
    Worst. Idea. Ever.

    I certainly dont want to play a fantasy MMORPG and then suddenly stuble into a reallife advertisement.

    What about naming rights, like sports teams do with stadiums?  I could happily play "MMORPGX presented by Visa and Mastercard" and not expect to see their ads in game.  Maybe in the login screens, character selection screens and all over their forums/websites.  I don't recall seeing a CEO of a business playing 3rd base or catching a pass in any professional sports team.

    Even if there were Coca-Cola red cans plastered on images of drinks in a game, that hurts nothing except "your immersion".  Sorry, games already ask for the player to Suspend their Disbelief with dragons, demons, kicking snakes, and even constant images of your characters' backside.  This could easily be construed into just another form of SoD, especially if there's money in it for the publisher/developer.  A clever developer could even put in an "eco-friendly, totally PC quest to pick up the trash left by last night's big party" to put Mountain Dew cans and Dominoes boxes into your game.

    There are far subtler forms of advertising that could be incorporated into a game that wouldn't result in periodic pop-up commercials to disrupt the session.  The developer just has to build those mechanisms into their game, and find an advertiser willing to put their product in from of a specific set of people who are sharing a common activity.  Burma Shave FTW!

    If someone chooses to bypass a completely amazing gaming experience simply because of some kind of advertising tie-ins, well, that's their prerogative.   And their loss.



    AlBQuirky

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    Mendel said:
    Rather than trying to come up with new payment models where the players fully foot the bill, I'd rather see games partnering with other companies to provide advertising in the games.  [...]
    Worst. Idea. Ever.

    I certainly dont want to play a fantasy MMORPG and then suddenly stuble into a reallife advertisement.
    Lol I mean we are already at that point.  Quest and overlays leading to cash shops.
    AlBQuirkyMendel
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,517
    Mendel said:
    Rather than trying to come up with new payment models where the players fully foot the bill, I'd rather see games partnering with other companies to provide advertising in the games.  [...]
    Worst. Idea. Ever.

    I certainly dont want to play a fantasy MMORPG and then suddenly stuble into a reallife advertisement.
    I fully agree that this would not work in a high fantasy settings. No doubt.

    But could be spot on perfect for Modern/Future game settings. A Prime example of this would be something like Secret World, or City of Heros, where they made fake billboards to add realism, why not just solicit companies to put up billboards for real products, and get some income from that, it would also augment the immersion factor, like seeing a billboard for Monster Energy Drink in Cyberpunk 2077, not only would it fit right into the environment, it would give a solid feel that this was the real world.

    So the idea could work for games that have the right setting.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    laserit said:
    Po_gg said:
    laserit said:
    If so, I'd say we are part way there. In a model like Tokyo's train system you could use Xbox games pass with an Origin access subscription
    And that's exactly why it won't be a thing in the near future - and why I don't like the streaming analog either, where one subscription can give you access to a vast amount of content. With games, most studios have only one game to offer for that sub.
    DBG has All Access, which is a good thing - but only for 4 games still.

    For the cross-companies it won't work not just because of competition, but most about metrics. And demand.
    In the subway's case, each line is needed and crowded, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And they're pretty much in monopoly, if a person wants to go from A to B, there's one line suited, unless he wants to make huge detours. So, each company will have its decent share from the pie.

    Games on the other hand are optional, and in overabundance, competing for the player's time. Also, especially since the f2p switch happened, they don't state any metrics at all, except some peaks for marketing reasons. You need external sources (like steamchart, I mean, who plays MMORPGs through steam, right?), diving into financial reports, etc. if you want to know anything about the metrics.

    For a similar coalition (unless it's within the same company, like DBG's case) they all should disclose accurate data on how many players have played, for how long - never gonna happen :D 

    When DBG took SSG the first question was for many (myself included) will LotRO and DDO be integrated into All Access? Or at least a shared subscription between LotRO and DDO?
    Nope, even that merge didn't happen...
    Great reply :)

    I agree with your assessment, I'm under no illusions.

    Within the last three months, I've signed up for Origin Access and Xbox game pass. A one year subscription has cost me a new release game and a half for each service. I've already gotten more than that value from both services. I think it going to end up being quite the bargain and I don't think I'll be outright purchasing many games this year.

    I think a lot of the smaller developers are going to be financially forced into services like these.

    I'm paying a lot less money for game play, pretty much all the companies have been telling me for a few years now that even though I pay $80cad to purchase a single game that I don't really own the copy, I only rent it.

    I say have it their way. I won't outright purchase anymore, I'll subscribe for a fraction of the cost.

    Except for those exceptional games of course. But for me these days, those games are few and far between. 
    Unlimited data access internet service?
    Yes, I'm not aware of any internet service in Canada that doesn't have unlimited data these days. So it makes no difference whether I purchase or subscribe.

    Canada is very different in that regards to the U.S.

    We don't have the population base of the U.S. we have a geographically huge country, infrastructure is subsidized by the government (we the taxpayers) We have to do some things that way. It would cost far too much for far too little return to make any business sense for a company to build the necessary infrastructure. Its the way things have historically been done here in the country with electricity, telephone etc.

    Its the stated goal of the government to have high speed internet in every community in this country. 
    Telus Optik has limits except for their 150 Mbit plan or as an extra $ option for the lower speed plans. Mind you, the cap for the lower speed plans (I have the 75 Mbit plan because they couldn't make 150 work at my house) is humongous and I have never come anywhere near the cap with constant streaming and a lot of game downloading. Still, they do have a cap.
    I can't speak for all of America, but in the Midwest where I've lived in quite a few different communities, data caps are the norm.

    Currently, I pay a premium for a 2TB data cap with 200Mbs down/50Mbs up. The worst part is that most areas are ruled by singular cable providers, so there is a definitive lack of competition and absolutely no incentive to deliver reliable service. Yay, USA :lol:
    botrytislaseritUngood

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    AlBQuirky said:
    Iselin said:
    laserit said:
    AlBQuirky said:
    laserit said:
    Po_gg said:
    laserit said:
    If so, I'd say we are part way there. In a model like Tokyo's train system you could use Xbox games pass with an Origin access subscription
    And that's exactly why it won't be a thing in the near future - and why I don't like the streaming analog either, where one subscription can give you access to a vast amount of content. With games, most studios have only one game to offer for that sub.
    DBG has All Access, which is a good thing - but only for 4 games still.

    For the cross-companies it won't work not just because of competition, but most about metrics. And demand.
    In the subway's case, each line is needed and crowded, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And they're pretty much in monopoly, if a person wants to go from A to B, there's one line suited, unless he wants to make huge detours. So, each company will have its decent share from the pie.

    Games on the other hand are optional, and in overabundance, competing for the player's time. Also, especially since the f2p switch happened, they don't state any metrics at all, except some peaks for marketing reasons. You need external sources (like steamchart, I mean, who plays MMORPGs through steam, right?), diving into financial reports, etc. if you want to know anything about the metrics.

    For a similar coalition (unless it's within the same company, like DBG's case) they all should disclose accurate data on how many players have played, for how long - never gonna happen :D 

    When DBG took SSG the first question was for many (myself included) will LotRO and DDO be integrated into All Access? Or at least a shared subscription between LotRO and DDO?
    Nope, even that merge didn't happen...
    Great reply :)

    I agree with your assessment, I'm under no illusions.

    Within the last three months, I've signed up for Origin Access and Xbox game pass. A one year subscription has cost me a new release game and a half for each service. I've already gotten more than that value from both services. I think it going to end up being quite the bargain and I don't think I'll be outright purchasing many games this year.

    I think a lot of the smaller developers are going to be financially forced into services like these.

    I'm paying a lot less money for game play, pretty much all the companies have been telling me for a few years now that even though I pay $80cad to purchase a single game that I don't really own the copy, I only rent it.

    I say have it their way. I won't outright purchase anymore, I'll subscribe for a fraction of the cost.

    Except for those exceptional games of course. But for me these days, those games are few and far between. 
    Unlimited data access internet service?
    Yes, I'm not aware of any internet service in Canada that doesn't have unlimited data these days. So it makes no difference whether I purchase or subscribe.

    Canada is very different in that regards to the U.S.

    We don't have the population base of the U.S. we have a geographically huge country, infrastructure is subsidized by the government (we the taxpayers) We have to do some things that way. It would cost far too much for far too little return to make any business sense for a company to build the necessary infrastructure. Its the way things have historically been done here in the country with electricity, telephone etc.

    Its the stated goal of the government to have high speed internet in every community in this country. 
    Telus Optik has limits except for their 150 Mbit plan or as an extra $ option for the lower speed plans. Mind you, the cap for the lower speed plans (I have the 75 Mbit plan because they couldn't make 150 work at my house) is humongous and I have never come anywhere near the cap with constant streaming and a lot of game downloading. Still, they do have a cap.
    I can't speak for all of America, but in the Midwest where I've lived in quite a few different communities, data caps are the norm.

    Currently, I pay a premium for a 2TB data cap with 200Mbs down/50Mbs up. The worst part is that most areas are ruled by singular cable providers, so there is a definitive lack of competition and absolutely no incentive to deliver reliable service. Yay, USA :lol:
    Huge problem with cable companies and monopolies. Sometimes hardcoded by laws.
    KyleranAlBQuirky
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    edited January 2020
    I am wondering what country exactly we talk about in which people dont have bank accounts ?!?!?

    From the sound of these postings, it can only be the USA. For only the USA has people talking this way, since the USA lacks basic features of a civilized country, such as, I dunno, a working social state.

    AFAIK here in Europe everyone has a bank account. You're basically guaranteed to have one. No matter any ratings. Why would a bank refuse to give you an account if you have a bad rating, anyway ? They just wouldnt allow you to give any loan. Otherwise they have no risk.

    It's not just that.  The thing is you could be having trouble paying even if you have a bank account.  

    I'll give you an example.  I try to buy ESO from Bethesda store.  I can't use my visa because it keep getting declined.  My guess is I'm asked to input my name, but not every country use ASCII character, but apparently Bethesda store only understand ASCII.

    Another example is I try to use paypal.  But in order for me to use paypal, I need to go to a specific bank.  Open a bank account there to use it.  Because no other bank accept paypal.

    I also have trouble paying Final fantasy sub etc.  

Sign In or Register to comment.