Can't help but laugh at the responses by bcbully. He's been telling us for years how in-demand open PvP is in MMO's, despite all the evidence to the contrary. With "bully" in his name, I wonder which side of the ganking equation he enjoys finding himself on.
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault.
Actually there was one game that made some pvp converts -- that game was Warhammer. It allowed for advancement via pvp and gave rewards for pvp, had bunches of pvp team scenarios. A lot of people who either didn't ever pvp, found pvp generally useless, or tended to avoid it in other games, embraced it in Warhammer.
Actually there was one game that made some pvp converts -- that game was Warhammer. It allowed for advancement via pvp and gave rewards for pvp, had bunches of pvp team scenarios. A lot of people who either didn't ever pvp, found pvp generally useless, or tended to avoid it in other games, embraced it in Warhammer.
I remember instanced PvP that you had to queue for, but not open world PvP. Was there open world PvP?
Actually there was one game that made some pvp converts -- that game was Warhammer. It allowed for advancement via pvp and gave rewards for pvp, had bunches of pvp team scenarios. A lot of people who either didn't ever pvp, found pvp generally useless, or tended to avoid it in other games, embraced it in Warhammer.
I remember instanced PvP that you had to queue for, but not open world PvP. Was there open world PvP?
Kind of, DAoC style. Zones had PvP "lakes" usually in the middle of the zone but the rest of the zone was PvE only. The higher level the zone, the bigger those PvP areas were with keeps that could be contested.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I was in alpha , this game was basically attempting to draw in the Ark crowd and finally realized that most players that are playing ark are doing so for pve now. From CE to ARk to any of the myriad of other clones all these games start out fresh with full pvp servers until a guild or two gets so huge in power they run off everyone else and the members get bored and run around ganking anyone they see. This was a smart design decision regardless of the few people crying about it here. You allow people to run around ganking low level players and people new to the game , you got a dead game in six months and a company out of thousands of dollars.
I was in alpha , this game was basically attempting to draw in the Ark crowd and finally realized that most players that are playing ark are doing so for pve now. From CE to ARk to any of the myriad of other clones all these games start out fresh with full pvp servers until a guild or two gets so huge in power they run off everyone else and the members get bored and run around ganking anyone they see. This was a smart design decision regardless of the few people crying about it here. You allow people to run around ganking low level players and people new to the game , you got a dead game in six months and a company out of thousands of dollars.
Yeah but this is making the game about you and what PVPer's want right? How can you even call it a shared experience at all? It's giving you what you want not what a PVE player wants. So an opt-in option would be more of a shared experience. It gives everyone what they want.
Wow, you are obtuse. A shared experience means that everyone participates in the SAME experience. In this case Sovrath is talking about a PvP experience. Opt-in/out divides the players. You have to be mentally lazy to not understand that "giving everyone what they want" is NOT a shared experience.
This is why I will never understand PVP player logic. This whole statement just sounds insane to me. I don't even think you read what I said. Your only hearing what's in your head. To you, it's a shared experience but to a PVE player, it's a forced experience.
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault.
The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.
Yall let yourselves down.
The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched.
The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.
Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault.
The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.
Yall let yourselves down.
The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched.
The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.
Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
I will not play a MMORPG that has no PvP, but it is behaviour like this which has seen the demise of so many PvP servers. When the rules set changes or the server dies they move on like locusts to the next server/game which allows them to behave like murderous morons.
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault.
The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.
Yall let yourselves down.
The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched.
The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.
Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
I will not play a MMORPG that has no PvP, but it is behaviour like this which has seen the demise of so many PvP servers. When the rules set changes or the server dies they move on like locusts to the next server/game which allows them to behave like murderous morons.
They did not say no PvP just special areas and nothing wrong with that. They said they found higher levels ganking lower level players, well, you lose the new players and the only ones left are bankers.
Amazon is being open and upfront about this. I applaud them.
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault.
The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.
Yall let yourselves down.
The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched.
The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.
Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
Back in the day most of the mmorpg players were -both- computer nerds and d&d nerds. Two shared interests of a huge majority of players. Then WoW happened and the genre went mainstream. Anyone seen mainstream online media these days? Kek
Sure there were still bad apples but I feel like they were held in check better by the smaller, closer-knit communities. PKs could be appreciated for the excitement and unpredictability they afforded, yet cheaters and disrespectful jerks were quickly run off.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Actually there was one game that made some pvp converts -- that game was Warhammer. It allowed for advancement via pvp and gave rewards for pvp, had bunches of pvp team scenarios. A lot of people who either didn't ever pvp, found pvp generally useless, or tended to avoid it in other games, embraced it in Warhammer.
I remember instanced PvP that you had to queue for, but not open world PvP. Was there open world PvP?
Kind of, DAoC style. Zones had PvP "lakes" usually in the middle of the zone but the rest of the zone was PvE only. The higher level the zone, the bigger those PvP areas were with keeps that could be contested.
You could sneak across into the enemy lands in some places. I know I got some components in enemy lands for crafting that was very hard to get on the order side of things.
There was a time when you had groups of people who killed Player Killers. In fact, I believe it was UO who first encountered this type of gameplay. I guess now, it's no longer cool to gang up on the gankers, so we've gone back to square one of horrible gameplay in PvP.
Being an anti was always a rough road. You had to be really good while also using time you could have been improving yourself guarding others for no exp/etc. Games have never rewarded antis.
Maybe one should be able to sign up as a sheriff in game and get benefits for this kind of activity.
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
And this is exactly what the pvp centric people in this thread refuse to acknowledge. They destroy their own games then cry that it was someone elses fault.
The inaction of the PvP community in MMORPG's against griefers makes them just as bad as the griefers themselves. You have no one to blame but yourselves for allowing griefers to run unchallenged. If you truly cared about garnering a positive, and thriving community, then you would go into lower level area's and counter gank, or provide protection to lower level players, and crafters.
Yall let yourselves down.
The fact is most times the normal PvPers who don't gank and do the things that drive players away simply expect those that are being so treated to simply accept the status quo. They keep saying it will pass or things will get better just accept this and leave if you cannot handle it. Then when players actually leave they get mad that they reduced the population and call them out as quitters and cowards. Why don't the players do something before it gets to this stage? Why don't games have systems in place that help to alleviate this issue instead of just expecting players to treat the game as how UO was when it launched.
The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.
Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
I will not play a MMORPG that has no PvP, but it is behaviour like this which has seen the demise of so many PvP servers. When the rules set changes or the server dies they move on like locusts to the next server/game which allows them to behave like murderous morons.
They did not say no PvP just special areas and nothing wrong with that. They said they found higher levels ganking lower level players, well, you lose the new players and the only ones left are bankers.
Amazon is being open and upfront about this. I applaud them.
I was only talking in general terms, about what the issues such players have caused MMOs in the past. Besides what I think about an upcoming game is bracketed with "Its not out yet so I hardly bother to look at what's going on anyway".:)
Nobody is "forcing" you to play. Or entitled to play every game ever released.
Dead in 3 months.
You're right, and that is exactly what happens, they say "Fuck this game, I'm out" and the game becomes a ghost town.
And the Dev be like "Aww shite man, where all our payers go?, We need money to run this stupid thing ya know"
They try to figure it out and be like: "Ball they don't like getting ganked, mocked, and shat on by other players, who would have thunk it, and when we said ya know, love it or fuck off, we never really expected you to go fuck off, and take ya money with ya"
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I am sorry to see this, as I think open world PVP can create a lot of fun. But it takes a lot of effort by the game companies and they have to make money to survive. Policing the toxic part of the player base - about 1 percent of any human population are sociopaths and sadists and I'd guess the numbers are higher in Internet MMOs with open world PVP - demands efforts out of proportion to the reward.
There was a time when you had groups of people who killed Player Killers. In fact, I believe it was UO who first encountered this type of gameplay. I guess now, it's no longer cool to gang up on the gankers, so we've gone back to square one of horrible gameplay in PvP.
Being an anti was always a rough road. You had to be really good while also using time you could have been improving yourself guarding others for no exp/etc. Games have never rewarded antis.
Maybe one should be able to sign up as a sheriff in game and get benefits for this kind of activity.
Indeed I have not really seen any games that does this well. The best system I have seen was the blue name red name thing where if you killed peeps for no reason, as in to defend yourself, you went red name and the more red the more penalty to your stats until you worked it off in game grinding pve xp.
If you killed red names you went blue named and suffered no penalties..that said this could still be exploited and griefers did so at times and both ways too.
Have not see any pvp game where you could be a pker that worked for the "law" so to speak and received benefits for keeping pvers safer from pkers.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Comments
One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues.
Then it turned into another PvP Sandbox, I lost interest entirely.
Even without "forced PvP", I'm still not entirely certain that online sandbox is what I'm interested in.
For those that are - that's fine, I hope you like it. Just not my cup of tea.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The game space is far different from how it was when UO was around. Players do not stay and continue to play because there are so many other games. You have to resolve these problems and the fault lies with both the phlegmatic players and the deaf developers. As long as people refuse to accept that this ganking is unacceptable and should not be part of any good PvP game it will not be addressed properly and dealt with. You need to immediately shut down this behaviour. Find a method that works and even if it reduces your potential player base, implement it.
Stop saying that things were different during the UO days. They were different because it was the only game in town. If people had choices then they would have left too and did immediately leave when Trammel came out.
Amazon is being open and upfront about this. I applaud them.
Nobody is "forcing" you to play. Or entitled to play every game ever released.
Dead in 3 months.
Sure there were still bad apples but I feel like they were held in check better by the smaller, closer-knit communities. PKs could be appreciated for the excitement and unpredictability they afforded, yet cheaters and disrespectful jerks were quickly run off.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You could sneak across into the enemy lands in some places. I know I got some components in enemy lands for crafting that was very hard to get on the order side of things.
Being an anti was always a rough road. You had to be really good while also using time you could have been improving yourself guarding others for no exp/etc. Games have never rewarded antis.
Maybe one should be able to sign up as a sheriff in game and get benefits for this kind of activity.
You're right, and that is exactly what happens, they say "Fuck this game, I'm out" and the game becomes a ghost town.
And the Dev be like "Aww shite man, where all our payers go?, We need money to run this stupid thing ya know"
They try to figure it out and be like: "Ball they don't like getting ganked, mocked, and shat on by other players, who would have thunk it, and when we said ya know, love it or fuck off, we never really expected you to go fuck off, and take ya money with ya"
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.