Solving the FTP dilemma

Kyleran · January 2020

It's often said a large percentage of players in most F2P games actually pay very little or nothing at all. I will assume it is true for this discussion.

Games have to be paid for somehow so very often more onerous designs are implemented to encourage more to spend and some to spend big.

Monthly subs are great for gamers who put a lot of time in one or two games, but for those players who "hop" around between a lot of different games, not so much.

Few people enjoy paying for a service they might not ever use so I'm surprised we haven't seen game devs provide a "pay as you go model."

No, not the old pay by the minute plans like Genie or Compuserv had, but one where gamers could buy blocks of game time in advance, which could in turn be "spent" in smaller increments than monthly.

Optimally for the gamer these prepaid credits could be consumed by the minute much as is done with prepaid cell phones.

If that might be too much to manage for games perhaps consuming credits by the hour, day or week would be more cost effective while still being more attractive to hoppers than a monthly sub.

iixviiiix · January 2020

So basically make pay to play great again ?

If we use $15 for monthly sub as standard , then $9 for 100h ? or 60h ? or $4 for weekly sub ?

Before talking about it , the main problem with subbed MMORPG is : not everyone who play MMORPG have bank account .

Palebane · January 2020

I like b2p model the most, but for GaaS I prefer f2p. I havent noticed a difference in community in f2p compared to sub. They are all filled with sociopaths, but I like to order a la cart with multiplayer games these days because there is always parts of GaaS that I do not enjoy playing or paying for. If I could just pay for the base game, and pay less by forgoing pvp or endgame, that would be ideal. Make those cost a premium, imo and the elite players can just eat each other alive. I definitely feel like I’m wasting my money with a sub these days due to personal time constraints and lack of access to content.

AAAMEOW · January 2020

China use pay by hour right?

I think one of the problem is if you are a hardcore player you pay much more. While in subscription model you pay a fix amount no matter how much you play.

And if you pay by day or week. There are people who play everyday but only a little bit per day. The model is bad for them.

iixviiiix · January 2020

AAAMEOW said:

China use pay by hour right?

I think one of the problem is if you are a hardcore player you pay much more. While in subscription model you pay a fix amount no matter how much you play.

And if you pay by day or week. There are people who play everyday but only a little bit per day. The model is bad for them.

China WOW used to pay by hour , idk nowaday . WOW china have cheaper price compare to US or EU servers . At some point when WOW is at top of popular , i hear that you can buy WOW gaming card anywhere around china .

Po_gg · January 2020

I believe the "solution" was right there at the start, but most games have steered away from it, when followed the changes Al has mentioned in the other thread of yours, namely the playerbase has changed (was watered down in quality, while exploded in numbers).

When f2p really started (on this side of the globe, at least), DDO and LotRO, its point wasn't to allow most players for "pay very little or nothing at all.", but to allow them to pay for the game in other ways than the subscription. Paying in chunks, as they go, only pay for parts they use, etc.

True, there was the option too for the absolute free play, but with the clear statement of that way the players will pay though their time - as in they will be in the game a LOT, which is also beneficial for the game on the long run.

Other games (like SWTOR, or AoC) solved it in a different way, their f2p is technically just a trial. Sub is still needed for the long-term play, and with it the free players just come and go - and by any chance they spend money in the store, that's just the cherry on top.

Where your problem is really present, is the recent f2p games, which were built around the newer gamers, instant gratification, etc.

The ones usually come up as examples on "how to make f2p right", how much they give away for free - and still in most cases they have whale problems and p2w.

Sure, in those games a very large share of the playerbase, as you said, plays for free or with minimal cash spent. But that's just how those games can reach their playerbase of new gamers...

Through the last decade a whole generation spawned which is accustomed to (fully) free games, and don't mind if on the other side of this "free" access there's a cash shop and/or lootboxes.

It will be even worse with mobiles as the main gaming platform...

So, while the solution is there, it always was, it will never become the norm again.

That has changed into a vastly oversaturated market, with a massive amount of "gamers" jumping from free game to free game, and never need to play the same twice since there are so many.

Most of those games are crap, but so what, it's free, and they never stay for long..

AlBQuirky · January 2020

I don't think the F2P is a dilemma, from the developer/publisher viewpoint. I think that is right where they want it. I don't foresee any significant changes on the horizon.

Your system sounds great, though. Unfortunately, MMO makers stopped making their games for players and now make them for investors. So any system that's good for the players will be quickly passed over

maskedweasel · January 2020

I personally don't mind paying for games I like ... I don't care much about cash shops, if they have something that seems worth it to me, I buy it but...

I've said it before, I'll say it again, there are some mobile games that have it worked out much more to my liking. Simply put, ad supported revenue is built into the game.

In one game I'm playing currently there are 4 places where you can opt to watch a 10 - 20 second ad, which, during that time, I put my phone down while it plays.

One of those places is to get cash currency in the shop. (You can watch 1 ad every 45 minutes for 10 currency. Most items you might want to buy that cost currency are around 1000 - 2000 currency, which is completely do-able in a short amount of time.)

Another place is in the cash shop, to refresh the item list of in-game currency items.

Another is during the game, if you want to earn an extra 50 gold while browsing a shop.

Lastly, upon completion of a mission, you can earn 1 extra reward chest after completing a boss battle.

Or you could spend 15 dollars to get the majority of these automatically without having to watch ads at all.

To me, this is the best solution, because you get a 100% free version of the game, complete with cash currency, that only requires your time, and keeps you competing with those that pay actual money.

The company as a whole gets revenue whether you pay or not, for as long as you watch ads, and most people would opt in for the ads, because it's micro advertising, like a commercial break during the game, for real-in-game incentives. If they don't choose to watch the ads, and don't choose to pay the subscription, or pay for the currency in the cash shop, it's not like they can't play the game, but inherently they just won't get the premium stuff of those who do.

Sounds fair to me. I like that system honestly.

Iselin · January 2020

I've proposed a similar way of buying game time in the past but the real problem as others have said, is that the studios got a taste for F2P and the whales where there's much more profit than with any sub model.

Besides, as you know, it hasn't been either/or for many years now. Almost all games with a persistent online world, which are the only types where any kind of sub is even feasible, now have optional subs on top of F2P.

Buy the box (or "starter bundle"... same thing really), cash shop and optional sub is the new "normal." Studios would need to be dragged kicking and screaming away from this model that leaves no penny behind.

Theocritus · January 2020

I'm in the minority but f2p works fine for me......I tend to jump around alot between games and don't like paying subs because I may not even play a certain game for quite awhile. B2p is Ok but most are more than I want to pay up front.

Amathe · January 2020

I dislike F2P. I log in, and I have a bag that holds 2 items. Try to play that way. So now I have to buy a bag. And so on. Everytime I turn around, some feature is inoperable unless I pay cash.

Meanwhile, I stand there denuded while everyone else looks like Sir Lancelot.

Can't say enough bad about "F2P."

Ungood · January 2020

Turbine really had a solid model to solve this.

Offer a very basic core game for free. This allows players can experience the game world and get a feel for the game overall, and not become overwhelmed with a massive world when they first start.

Then continue to make small batch content (AKA: DLC's) (which includes, Zones/Classes/Races/Etc/Whatever), and sell that content piecemeal in the store, along with the more traditional options like; cosmetics, bank space, character slots, etc.

And obviously also have Expansions.

Then Make DLC's for the expansions, so players will need to buy the expansion to access the additional DLC's.

Or offer complete access to all the DLC's for a monthly sub.

That way, everyone can use a system that works for them.

Sovrath · January 2020

iixviiiix said:

So basically make pay to play great again ?
If we use $15 for monthly sub as standard , then $9 for 100h ? or 60h ? or $4 for weekly sub ?

Before talking about it , the main problem with subbed MMORPG is : not everyone who play MMORPG have bank account .

They don't? How so?

Ungood · January 2020

Sovrath said:

iixviiiix said:

So basically make pay to play great again ?
If we use $15 for monthly sub as standard , then $9 for 100h ? or 60h ? or $4 for weekly sub ?

Before talking about it , the main problem with subbed MMORPG is : not everyone who play MMORPG have bank account .

They don't? How so?

F2P games don't require you give any credit information to make an account, and often the Cash Shop can be done through paypal or Steam, which allows you to use prepaid cards you can buy from Walmart, and not have an actual bank account.

Also, Some games like GW2, allowed you to buy gem cards directly right from Walmart, so you could just buy those with cash, and never have to give any bank info.

Sovrath · January 2020

Ungood said:

Sovrath said:

iixviiiix said:

So basically make pay to play great again ?
If we use $15 for monthly sub as standard , then $9 for 100h ? or 60h ? or $4 for weekly sub ?

Before talking about it , the main problem with subbed MMORPG is : not everyone who play MMORPG have bank account .

They don't? How so?

F2P games don't require you give any credit information to make an account, and often the Cash Shop can be done through paypal or Steam, which allows you to use prepaid cards you can buy from Walmart, and not have an actual bank account.

Also, Some games like GW2, allowed you to buy gem cards directly right from Walmart, so you could just buy those with cash, and never have to give any bank info.

I guess what I'm trying to assess is how is it that some players don't have bank accounts?

Even someone who is under age, with an adult on the account, can have an account.

You can even get a prepaid "credit card."

Marid · January 2020

Amathe said:

I dislike F2P. I log in, and I have a bag that holds 2 items. Try to play that way. So now I have to buy a bag. And so on. Everytime I turn around, some feature is inoperable unless I pay cash.

Meanwhile, I stand there denuded while everyone else looks like Sir Lancelot.

Can't say enough bad about "F2P."

I agree..."F2P" is really just a thinly veiled scam aimed at those who do have the money to spend.

Mendel · January 2020

I don't think buying blocks of time is any real solution. Then again, I'm probably more okay with a FTP game than most. I can (and do) avoid obnoxious cash shops. I tend to not worry about how or what the other guy pays for, unless it impacts the game play (i.e., P2W items).

Rather than trying to come up with new payment models where the players fully foot the bill, I'd rather see games partnering with other companies to provide advertising in the games. I think I could tolerate that better. Even Coca-Cola and Dominoes ads in a fantasy game, despite the immersion breaking aspects. Consider it a challenge for the marketing departments to build clever and context-sensitive advertising, and a challenge the games developers to develop minimally intrusive mechanisms to deliver the advertising.

Advertisers paid for television and radio for years. Use the same principle for gaming. Let them subsidize my gaming habit.

iixviiiix · January 2020

Sovrath said:

Ungood said:

Sovrath said:

iixviiiix said:

So basically make pay to play great again ?
If we use $15 for monthly sub as standard , then $9 for 100h ? or 60h ? or $4 for weekly sub ?

Before talking about it , the main problem with subbed MMORPG is : not everyone who play MMORPG have bank account .

They don't? How so?

F2P games don't require you give any credit information to make an account, and often the Cash Shop can be done through paypal or Steam, which allows you to use prepaid cards you can buy from Walmart, and not have an actual bank account.

Also, Some games like GW2, allowed you to buy gem cards directly right from Walmart, so you could just buy those with cash, and never have to give any bank info.

I guess what I'm trying to assess is how is it that some players don't have bank accounts?

Even someone who is under age, with an adult on the account, can have an account.

You can even get a prepaid "credit card."

Then i will ask you "why did they need bank accounts" ? It seem like you view of the world pretty limited .

For a lots people in this world , they don't need bank accounts . Even if they made one , most will forget it cause they don't use it oftens.

I meet alots of people like that , they even willing to pay extra to get stuffs done instead of making bank accounts .

as Ungood said , they can get away with gaming cards instead of using draging services of banking

You may feel that's strange , but IMO , P2P game lost a lots potential custumer because of this . F2P is doing better because it offer wider chose for player to pay for they stuffs .

Mobile game even get better because some of them directly using phone account for payment.

That's why after 10 years , mobile game become winner while sub gaming become smaller and smaller .

Utinni · January 2020

All the games worth playing are either still a sub, BTP, or just have cosmetics in their shop. Stop playing weeb games.

Sovrath · January 2020

iixviiiix said:

Sovrath said:

I guess what I'm trying to assess is how is it that some players don't have bank accounts?

Even someone who is under age, with an adult on the account, can have an account.

You can even get a prepaid "credit card."

Then i will ask you "why did they need bank accounts" ? It seem like you view of the world pretty limited .
For a lots people in this world , they don't need bank accounts . Even if they made one , most will forget it cause they don't use it oftens.
I meet alots of people like that , they even willing to pay extra to get stuffs done instead of making bank accounts .

as Ungood said , they can get away with gaming cards instead of using draging services of banking

You may feel that's strange , but IMO , P2P game lost a lots potential custumer because of this . F2P is doing better because it offer wider chose for player to pay for they stuffs .

Mobile game even get better because some of them directly using phone account for payment.

That's why after 10 years , mobile game become winner while sub gaming become smaller and smaller .

First, It was an honest question, no need to be defensive.

Second, if you use money then I can't imagine not having some sort of bank account. My question stems from thinking that you might be alluding to other cultures that use money differently or just have "different money." But then that begs the question how they are buying computers and internet without a bank account.

My view of the world is fine. But when you just make a statement without any context it requires clarification.

Iselin · January 2020

iixviiiix said:

Sovrath said:

Ungood said:

Sovrath said:

iixviiiix said:

So basically make pay to play great again ?
If we use $15 for monthly sub as standard , then $9 for 100h ? or 60h ? or $4 for weekly sub ?

Before talking about it , the main problem with subbed MMORPG is : not everyone who play MMORPG have bank account .

They don't? How so?

F2P games don't require you give any credit information to make an account, and often the Cash Shop can be done through paypal or Steam, which allows you to use prepaid cards you can buy from Walmart, and not have an actual bank account.

Also, Some games like GW2, allowed you to buy gem cards directly right from Walmart, so you could just buy those with cash, and never have to give any bank info.

I guess what I'm trying to assess is how is it that some players don't have bank accounts?

Even someone who is under age, with an adult on the account, can have an account.

You can even get a prepaid "credit card."

Then i will ask you "why did they need bank accounts" ? It seem like you view of the world pretty limited .
For a lots people in this world , they don't need bank accounts . Even if they made one , most will forget it cause they don't use it oftens.
I meet alots of people like that , they even willing to pay extra to get stuffs done instead of making bank accounts .

as Ungood said , they can get away with gaming cards instead of using draging services of banking

You may feel that's strange , but IMO , P2P game lost a lots potential custumer because of this . F2P is doing better because it offer wider chose for player to pay for they stuffs .

Mobile game even get better because some of them directly using phone account for payment.

That's why after 10 years , mobile game become winner while sub gaming become smaller and smaller .

Maybe my view of the world is limited too but how the hell does anyone do anything these days without at least a debit card? You need a bank account for those.

What the hell is the alternative? Joe's check cashing corner joint? Mattresses?

rojoArcueid · January 2020

When it comes to subscription I prefer the way FFXIV does it with different price tiers with different server capacity per tier. Cheaper subscription can make less characters on the account, but can also upgrade if desired. Instead of locking actual game content like freemium games they are using the server capabilities for monetization. If more companies do this they can get even more competitive.

This is good because someone with less time to play can get a lower subscription tier. That's why when i sub to WoW or XIV i make sure i will have at least 3 full weeks available to play that game during the month I paid for. Otherwise I just don't sub.

Kyleran · January 2020

Theocritus said:

I'm in the minority but f2p works fine for me......I tend to jump around alot between games and don't like paying subs because I may not even play a certain game for quite awhile. B2p is Ok but most are more than I want to pay up front.

Perhaps on this site but I'd say in the overall game player base you are in a significant, if not dominate sector.

I thought if a person such as you could purchase game time credits, spending them how and when you wish, it might be more palatable.

Taking it a step further, what if these credits could be traded or sold to other players?

Then you could take advantage of perhaps buying larger time blocks knowing you could one day sell any you don't use, even if at a discount.

As @Iselin said, while seeming to be consumer friendly most game devs would likely view such an option as a threat to other monetization methods being employed which they view as more profitable.

Kyleran · January 2020

Iselin said:

iixviiiix said:

Sovrath said:

Ungood said:

Sovrath said:

iixviiiix said:

So basically make pay to play great again ?
If we use $15 for monthly sub as standard , then $9 for 100h ? or 60h ? or $4 for weekly sub ?

Before talking about it , the main problem with subbed MMORPG is : not everyone who play MMORPG have bank account .

They don't? How so?

F2P games don't require you give any credit information to make an account, and often the Cash Shop can be done through paypal or Steam, which allows you to use prepaid cards you can buy from Walmart, and not have an actual bank account.

Also, Some games like GW2, allowed you to buy gem cards directly right from Walmart, so you could just buy those with cash, and never have to give any bank info.

I guess what I'm trying to assess is how is it that some players don't have bank accounts?

Even someone who is under age, with an adult on the account, can have an account.

You can even get a prepaid "credit card."

Then i will ask you "why did they need bank accounts" ? It seem like you view of the world pretty limited .
For a lots people in this world , they don't need bank accounts . Even if they made one , most will forget it cause they don't use it oftens.
I meet alots of people like that , they even willing to pay extra to get stuffs done instead of making bank accounts .

as Ungood said , they can get away with gaming cards instead of using draging services of banking

You may feel that's strange , but IMO , P2P game lost a lots potential custumer because of this . F2P is doing better because it offer wider chose for player to pay for they stuffs .

Mobile game even get better because some of them directly using phone account for payment.

That's why after 10 years , mobile game become winner while sub gaming become smaller and smaller .

Maybe my view of the world is limited too but how the hell does anyone do anything these days without at least a debit card? You need a bank account for those.

What the hell is the alternative? Joe's check cashing corner joint? Mattresses?

Game time cards purchased at retail stores have been around quite a while, at least for some of the mega popular games.

Iselin · January 2020

Kyleran said:

Iselin said:

iixviiiix said:

Sovrath said:

Ungood said:

Sovrath said:

iixviiiix said:

So basically make pay to play great again ?
If we use $15 for monthly sub as standard , then $9 for 100h ? or 60h ? or $4 for weekly sub ?

Before talking about it , the main problem with subbed MMORPG is : not everyone who play MMORPG have bank account .

They don't? How so?

F2P games don't require you give any credit information to make an account, and often the Cash Shop can be done through paypal or Steam, which allows you to use prepaid cards you can buy from Walmart, and not have an actual bank account.

Also, Some games like GW2, allowed you to buy gem cards directly right from Walmart, so you could just buy those with cash, and never have to give any bank info.

I guess what I'm trying to assess is how is it that some players don't have bank accounts?

Even someone who is under age, with an adult on the account, can have an account.

You can even get a prepaid "credit card."

Then i will ask you "why did they need bank accounts" ? It seem like you view of the world pretty limited .
For a lots people in this world , they don't need bank accounts . Even if they made one , most will forget it cause they don't use it oftens.
I meet alots of people like that , they even willing to pay extra to get stuffs done instead of making bank accounts .

as Ungood said , they can get away with gaming cards instead of using draging services of banking

You may feel that's strange , but IMO , P2P game lost a lots potential custumer because of this . F2P is doing better because it offer wider chose for player to pay for they stuffs .

Mobile game even get better because some of them directly using phone account for payment.

That's why after 10 years , mobile game become winner while sub gaming become smaller and smaller .

Maybe my view of the world is limited too but how the hell does anyone do anything these days without at least a debit card? You need a bank account for those.

What the hell is the alternative? Joe's check cashing corner joint? Mattresses?

Game time cards purchased at retail stores have been around quite a while, at least for some of the mega popular games.

Yes I know but around my neighborhood the only MMO that has them readily available is WOW. Works if that's what you want to play, otherwise not so much.

cameltosis · January 2020

I really hate F2P, to the point that I'll pretty much avoid any game that uses it. But, that is down to my playstyle and preferences: I play for endgame group content and the community. F2P guarantees that the quality of the community will be much lower than a subscription game, so it'll be harder for me to find nice people to play with or hang out with in the community.

There are really just two main benefits to the developers for going with F2P:

1) It removes the barrier to entry.

Over the years we've seen numerous devs come out and say that this is the absolute biggest reason for going F2P - by removing the barrier to entry, your potential market explodes and you will, definitely, get loads more people playing the game.

2) It removes the upper spending cap per account.

In a subscription world, each account was limited to £8.99 / $15 per month spending. F2P gets rid of that cap so that players can potentially spend an unlimited amount of money per month. Good for devs, they love them whales, but bad for players.

I'm very much in favour of LotRO's original F2P plans, I feel they got it right and were quite fair about it. Granted, it only took a few months before greed entered their hearts and the shop turned shitty....

However, the basic principle was easy:

Buy the base game, plus xpacs, plus subscription, and you have access to absolutely everything.

Can't afford it, or don't want to commit to a subscription?

Then get access via F2P to the starter areas. You have all the mechanics available, but you only have access to the first 20 levels of content. Want more content? Buy a content pack, or an xpac.

The goal of this system was that instead of committing to a subscription, you just bought the content piecemeal according to your own budget. It would cost you more in the long run to buy the content this way, instead of subscribing, but you got the convienience of being in control of your spending and you didn't have to spend any money up front, so if you hated the game, no worries as you're not out of pocket.

The downsides to the system is that it didn't give the devs benefit (2) from above: as you could only buy content packs, there was an absolute limit to player spending. That's why they almost immediately started adding cosmetics, horses, P2W buffs and consumables to the store.

My solution to that is just to charge honest prices for your game. If you "need" the extra money from whales, then surely that just means that you aren't charging proper prices for the real content? Or perhaps your content wasn't that fun, which is why players stopped buying it? Either way, the solution shouldn't be figuring out ways to get more money out of whales, that is just ignoring the core problem.

Howdy, Stranger!

Solving the FTP dilemma

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Solving the FTP dilemma

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV