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is there much difference in the good ol stable overclock?

cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
so for hours i tried to overclock my ram on asus 470f, ryzen 3600x and corsair vengeance lpx 16gb 3200mhz. So finally i decided to use the D.O.C.P setting and it set my memory to 3200 vs 2133 and and its timings. i then used the ez option for cpu overclock to get it to 4.0 ghz. Is this obviously better than what it had a default, and should i be trying to get them to where they need to be per ryzen dram calculator? Is there a massive difference?

Comments

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,851
    At stock settings, your CPU will turbo up to 4.4 GHz when appropriate.  If you've reduced that to 4.0 GHz, you're going in the wrong direction.  Unless you know that your workloads will constantly push all cores and all threads equally, trying to overclock second generation or later Ryzen will usually only make it slower.
    Ridelynn13lakeOzmodanVitaminKGdemami
  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    so put it back to stock where it shows 3800 on the cpu?
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,590
    Put it to stock settings. Ryzen 3600x can automatically adjust its own speeds for individual cores, and that functionality is so good that it's faster for gaming unless you've got really good cooler.

    If you want to overclock Ryzen 3600X you can try doing it with settings called PBO (precision boost overdrive) and autoOC, but generally it's not really worth it.
    Ozmodan
     
  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    Stock settings.. gotcha. I did buy the noctua nh d15 cooler. It's a beast and I'm at 28-30 c at idle. 
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,375
    Zen chips self-overclock pretty darn well. There are a lot of cases where the Auto settings are beating out manually tuned overclocks in real-world scenarios: the peak single-core Speed may get a tiny bit higher on a manual overclock, but that's only useful in single-core applications, and the Auto algorithm (PBO/XFR) is very very good at tuning for optimal performance once you go past two threads - which is what nearly all computers are going to see real-world, unless your specifically just trying to break a record with LN2.

    The PBO alogorithm is heavily tied to cooling - so the better you can cool the chip, the faster and more consistently PBO will boost your clocks.

    RAM overclocking can gain you a bit - the AMD chipsets don't do that so well. Sounds like you are hitting the rated speed on your DIMMS, ymmv on trying to eek out much past that.
    Ozmodan
  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    Question though.. even though I used the eztune application and it set it to 4000 mghz.. will it still throttle or clock itself to 4.4. Technically the program did it and I didn't manually set anything.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,375
    cichy1012 said:
    Question though.. even though I used the eztune application and it set it to 4000 mghz.. will it still throttle or clock itself to 4.4. Technically the program did it and I didn't manually set anything.
    Maybe this will help. There are a lot of settings, PBO has an entire spectrum of available speeds it can set, so I don't know what you mean by 4000Mhz

    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc
    Ozmodan
  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    Ridelynn said:
    cichy1012 said:
    Question though.. even though I used the eztune application and it set it to 4000 mghz.. will it still throttle or clock itself to 4.4. Technically the program did it and I didn't manually set anything.
    Maybe this will help. There are a lot of settings, PBO has an entire spectrum of available speeds it can set, so I don't know what you mean by 4000Mhz

    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc


    Thanks for the link. What I meant is when I loaded up the bios it had cpu frequency at 3800 when I used the eztune it changed settings and then said 4000.. 


  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    For a gamer, overclocking is not that useful.  Most games are GPU bound, not CPU hence if you want a faster game get a better GPU and not waste getting incremental speed increases fooling with overclock settings.  
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,403
    The dram calculator is old. Ryzen memory issues only affected the first batch of the first generation. Subsequent batches did not have this issue. B-die was more a coincidence it worked better for a hardware error.
    Just set your ram to rated speeds and timing and let the Cpu handle its own clocks. The cpu will factor in the workload and cooling to pick the ideal clock within a power limit. The only reason to over lock the Cpu is if you want to increase voltage. 
    Ozmodan
  • ConnmacartConnmacart Member UncommonPosts: 722
    cichy1012 said:
    Ridelynn said:
    cichy1012 said:
    Question though.. even though I used the eztune application and it set it to 4000 mghz.. will it still throttle or clock itself to 4.4. Technically the program did it and I didn't manually set anything.
    Maybe this will help. There are a lot of settings, PBO has an entire spectrum of available speeds it can set, so I don't know what you mean by 4000Mhz

    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc


    Thanks for the link. What I meant is when I loaded up the bios it had cpu frequency at 3800 when I used the eztune it changed settings and then said 4000.. 


    Since no one is actually answering. The 3600x has a base clock of 3.8GHz that's the 3800. When you switched the eztune toggle it simply put a slight overclock in place. So it ran at 4.0GHz base clock, 4000, instead of the standard 3.8. Base clock means the minimum speed it will run at. It will still boost higher until it runs into a threshold it can't cross. Usually Thermally as in getting to hot to boost higher.

    For 3rd gen Ryzen manual overclocking is rather pointless. The CPU will boost to the same point regardless. Only better cooling will get you higher boost speed and longer boost duration.

    I say just leave the Ram on D.O.C.P. and leave the CPU bios settings alone. Other than choosing the Normal or Optimal setting in the Asus Bios.
    Ozmodan
  • cichy1012cichy1012 Member UncommonPosts: 342
    edited January 2020
    cichy1012 said:
    Ridelynn said:
    cichy1012 said:
    Question though.. even though I used the eztune application and it set it to 4000 mghz.. will it still throttle or clock itself to 4.4. Technically the program did it and I didn't manually set anything.
    Maybe this will help. There are a lot of settings, PBO has an entire spectrum of available speeds it can set, so I don't know what you mean by 4000Mhz

    https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3491-explaining-precision-boost-overdrive-benchmarks-auto-oc


    Thanks for the link. What I meant is when I loaded up the bios it had cpu frequency at 3800 when I used the eztune it changed settings and then said 4000.. 


    Since no one is actually answering. The 3600x has a base clock of 3.8GHz that's the 3800. When you switched the eztune toggle it simply put a slight overclock in place. So it ran at 4.0GHz base clock, 4000, instead of the standard 3.8. Base clock means the minimum speed it will run at. It will still boost higher until it runs into a threshold it can't cross. Usually Thermally as in getting to hot to boost higher.

    For 3rd gen Ryzen manual overclocking is rather pointless. The CPU will boost to the same point regardless. Only better cooling will get you higher boost speed and longer boost duration.

    I say just leave the Ram on D.O.C.P. and leave the CPU bios settings alone. Other than choosing the Normal or Optimal setting in the Asus Bios. 








    *****So revert back to the 3800 and not use the eztune correct?*****
    Post edited by cichy1012 on
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,851
    It used to be that CPUs ran at a fixed speed.  You could change that clock speed to make them run faster (or slower), which was called overclocking.  That's a lot less true than it used to be, however.

    Sometime around 15 years ago, people realized that it was rather dumb for a CPU to sit there burning 50 W at its max clock speed when the computer was idle at the desktop.  So they had it try to detect when it was idle, and then reduce the clock speed and voltage to save power.

    Then CPUs got more cores, and some people said it was better to get a higher clocked Core 2 Duo than a lower clocked Core 2 Quad, because those extra cores wouldn't help you, but the higher clock speed would.  Intel was unhappy with people preferring a lower end CPU, so they introduced turbo and power gating, so that a CPU could turn off some cores and clock the rest higher.  That way, if you buy more cores and fewer cores clocked higher would have been better, it will temporarily turn itself into fewer cores clocked higher.  There was no longer any reason why a CPU with fewer cores was better then whatever mainstream consumer CPU was the highest end from the same vendor.

    But how idle is idle, and when is it safe to turn off cores or clock them higher?  And how many cores, and how much higher?  Intel's first implementation of turbo was pretty bad, and AMD's first wasn't much better.

    But since then, they've both put a ton of work into figuring out the best way to clock various cores higher or lower or turn them off entirely.  If you can save enough heat and power by clocking cores lower or turning them off when it doesn't matter that you can use the savings to clock them 5% higher when it does matter, that's as good as making a CPU that is 5% faster across the board.  So all CPU vendors know that getting turbo right is a huge deal, and it is a major focus in CPU design.

    Today, turbo algorithms are very sophisticated, and can adjust clock speeds separately for different cores, and update them every millisecond or so.  The algorithms can look not just at the load on a core, or even on other cores, but also temperatures in various places on the chip and how high various cores were clocked in the recent past.  A modern CPU is likely to do more computational work just to figure out how high it should clock various cores than a CPU from twenty years ago would do for all the work it did in total.

    But if you set the CPU to a fixed clock speed, you're turning all of that off.  And if you're not setting it to a fixed clock speed, then what does "overclocking" even mean?  There are a lot of things that it could mean, most of which are stupid, counterproductive, or both.

    There are two situations where you could still want to overclock other than for the sake of overclocking, but neither are common for consumer use.  In order for it to make sense, the gains you get from setting a fixed clock speed have to exceed what the CPU could have gotten from the stock turbo.

    First, suppose that you know that you have a single, fixed workload that is the only thing the CPU will ever do.  All cores will be stressed equally, and there is no idle at desktop.  For that matter, there may be no desktop.  In that case, Intel and AMD have to set the stock speeds conservatively, as there is a lot of variation between chips at an atomic level.  If they set the speed such that 95% of their chips will be fine and the other 5% blue screen a lot, that's a disaster.  But you might have gotten a lucky chip that can clock 100-200 MHz higher in your particular workload than some others.  So it could be safe for you to clock your chip higher at a clock speed that works for your particular workload, even if that fixed clock speed is rather dumb or even unstable for most other workloads.

    The other reason is that you could have both the ability and inclination to burn a lot more power than most other people can.  That doesn't just mean a big air cooler from Noctua.  The turbo algorithm can detect temperature and clock higher if you've got a good cooler.  But if you've got a very nice power supply, a motherboard that went way overboard on power delivery, and a sub-ambient, phase-change cooler that can keep your CPU at 20 C even while the CPU is cranking out 300 W, then maybe you could set all the cores to 4.6 GHz and let it burn 300 W and have a legitimate overclock.  Of course, it would probably be both cheaper and more effective to spend that money on a higher end CPU like the Ryzen 9 3950X.
    Ozmodan
  • 13lake13lake Member UncommonPosts: 719
    edited January 2020
    Dram calculator is not old, it's updated, and it's very useful and easier to use than ever.

    It can give you anywhere between 8-20% FPS improvement if you've got the correct bang-for buck Micron E-die , middle of the road Hynic C-die or premium Samsung B-die.

    The secret are the tertiary timings, yes you heard me right, not the raw speed (3600/3733Mhz max anyway), not the primary timings or the secondary, it's the tertiary that are the hidden gem which gives a good performance boost.

    And for that you need the dram calculator to skip weeks/months of manually finding the one of the few perfect combinations of numbers for your timings.
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