Any profound ideals or views come from your MMORPG experience

Vermillion_Raventhal · December 2019

One for me is that society is literally held together by razer thin accountability. Fully expect people at their worst if society ever broke down. Maybe I should be making a bunker that's decked with supplies and weapons for the last days lol.

Designing MMORPG made me change my atheist views. If someone told me something as complex as a MMORPG was made by random code I'd look at them like they were crazy. Reality, the universe and all the rules are so much more complex maybe there had to be creator. Maybe this is a divine simulation.

What about you that was profoundly changed by MMORPG?

Kyleran · December 2019

Well crowd funding certainly has confirmed there are all sorts of crazy new ways people can throw away their money.

Vermillion_Raventhal · December 2019

Kyleran said:

Well crowd funding certainly has confirmed there are all sorts of crazy new ways people can throw away their money.

Microtransactions as well. I know people paid money for power leveling and buying characters but never thought people would throw away good monthly salaries at games. Not even good games.

WarWitch · December 2019

All we have to choose is how we spend the time we have.
MMORPG's provide us with worlds that we can not live in in rl.
Having a bad day log in and play whatever mode you enjoy the most and you will feel better. Feeling old, can't see well enough to spar, log in run synapse and your as fast as the kids again. People are pack animals we all seek a place to belong, a sense of accomplishment a reason to be. to the original poster God has revealed himself in nature so that even the heathen can see that he exists.

Finvega · December 2019

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

One for me is that society is literally held together by razer thin accountability. Fully expect people at their worst if society ever broke down. Maybe I should be making a bunker that's decked with supplies and weapons for the last days lol.

Designing MMORPG made me change my atheist views. If someone told me something as complex as a MMORPG was made by random code I'd look at them like they were crazy. Reality, the universe and all the rules are so much more complex maybe there had to be creator. Maybe this is a divine simulation.

What about you that was profoundly changed by MMORPG?

Mostly the size of my ass.

lahnmir · December 2019

I learned that games don’t stop when I turn them off.... They just keep going when I am away...... and going..... like parallel worlds..... secretly almost.... they never stop!!

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Caffynated · December 2019

MMOs taught me that most people are friendly and will go out of their way to help a stranger if the opportunity presents itself, but the 1% of insufferable garbage are loudly and aggressively hateful to the point that they can feel like the majority. Classic MMOs where your character took a long time to develop and you had a reputation that everyone on your server knew could curtail some of these antisocial pariahs. Even the biggest jerk would think twice about throwing away a character they had sunk hundreds of hours into for the thrill of making someone upset.

Now they will sell you a character makeover kit that in some cases is even called an identity repair kit or otherwise hinting at changing your name and face to ditch your reputation. Personal accountability went away with every other penalty for poor in game decisions.

Po_gg · December 2019

lahnmir said:

I learned that games don’t stop when I turn them off.... They just keep going when I am away...... and going..... like parallel worlds..... secretly almost.... they never stop!!

Hmm, so you say there's a prallel secret world behind our own?

(man, I miss TSW...)

For the question, I guess nothing, at least nothing which could list as profound. Probably since I grew alongside it all along from the start, BBS, IRC, different MUDs/MUSHes, etc. and it all was the same, nothing new. Pretty much what was true back then is still how things are today, nothing new to learn...

People were asshats back then too, that's why I preferred (and still do) smaller communities and avoid the hype-fuelled popularity bandwagon.

Popular doesn't equal quality was true back then as well, it just usually means to match a lowest common denominator, as in dumbed down enough for the masses.

Pvp is toxic, was also the truth right from the beginning, though probably it just got worse, on tournaments in the '90s there still was some sort of camaraderie, sportsmanship even, which was totally lost later.

Microtransactions, a.k.a "the fool and his money", we all saw that with MtG and the numerous other TCGs of the era, so no surprise in there either. And from the other side, that corporate greed has no limits, well, Huxley even had a novel on that a century ago...

Scot · December 2019

Community is important and most of us live in areas which lack it. We have now substituted online friends for our neighbours and a veneer of a online community. Now that online community can be more than a veneer in some MMOs for example, but in social media it is by and large very shallow.

AlBQuirky · December 2019

People really enjoy killing.

Cryomatrix · December 2019

Kyleran said:

Well crowd funding certainly has confirmed there are all sorts of crazy new ways people can throw away their money.

The fact that "psychics" can make a living confirmed that to me a long time ago.

Caffynated · December 2019

Scot said:

Community is important and most of us live in areas which lack it. We have now substituted online friends for our neighbours and a veneer of a online community. Now that online community can be more than a veneer in some MMOs for example, but in social media it is by and large very shallow.

I'm curious if you've read Bowling Alone.

Mendel · December 2019

Po_gg said:

lahnmir said:

I learned that games don’t stop when I turn them off.... They just keep going when I am away...... and going..... like parallel worlds..... secretly almost.... they never stop!!

Hmm, so you say there's a prallel secret world behind our own? (man, I miss TSW...)

For the question, I guess nothing, at least nothing which could list as profound. Probably since I grew alongside it all along from the start, BBS, IRC, different MUDs/MUSHes, etc. and it all was the same, nothing new. Pretty much what was true back then is still how things are today, nothing new to learn...

People were asshats back then too, that's why I preferred (and still do) smaller communities and avoid the hype-fuelled popularity bandwagon.

Popular doesn't equal quality was true back then as well, it just usually means to match a lowest common denominator, as in dumbed down enough for the masses.

Pvp is toxic, was also the truth right from the beginning, though probably it just got worse, on tournaments in the '90s there still was some sort of camaraderie, sportsmanship even, which was totally lost later.

Microtransactions, a.k.a "the fool and his money", we all saw that with MtG and the numerous other TCGs of the era, so no surprise in there either. And from the other side, that corporate greed has no limits, well, Huxley even had a novel on that a century ago...

The only thing I think you missed here was that people will do anything to think they are better than others. Ninja looting, kill stealing, spawn hogging, training, all sorts of cheats and exploits, etc., and that's without resorting to PvP where even more egregious behavior is tolerated, if not encouraged.

I've learned little from MMORPGs, they have only reinforced a bleak view of humanity. The more I see the behavior of masses, the more I think we were the ones voted out of the tree by the cool apes.

Scot · December 2019

Caffynated said:

Scot said:

Community is important and most of us live in areas which lack it. We have now substituted online friends for our neighbours and a veneer of a online community. Now that online community can be more than a veneer in some MMOs for example, but in social media it is by and large very shallow.

I'm curious if you've read Bowling Alone.

I had a quick look at the Wiki page, but it is well known that community has in one way or the other been in decline for well over a century. What I mentioned is just the latest form that decline has taken.

Asm0deus · December 2019

Mmorpg's are just further proof that Agent Smith was right about humanity.

Wizardry · December 2019

There was never that much community unless living in a small rural town where everyone knew everyone.
What we did 40 or so years ago was just pick out the type of friends in the community with like interests and still ignored the rest.That doesn't mean we still don't see a neighbor in passing and say hello,it's just considered being a decent person.
Online has not changed our perception or our community type feelings it just makes it easier to find and interact with like minded people.

Like people 50 years ago didn't go knocking door to door...Hey do you guys like hockey or do you guys like to party or do you guys like camping,fishing?You just came across those similar type people in passing or met them at the actual events or through the kids interactions at schools or during their sporting events where parents would run into each other.

I am saying that we are still the same people,main difference is that we see more weirdos because,well there are a lot more people in this world now and have a lot more media outlets.If anything we have lost touch with morals,people are more selfish minded now than ever,will do whatever suits themselves with no care weather their morals are correct in harming others.

Gutlard · December 2019

I've learned that anonymity is the worst for our primitive human race. I've learned that every industry is ruined by money grubbing whores.

I've learned that Gaming is the Best Delusion...for me.

Gut Out!

Shaigh · December 2019

I have found that my enjoyment depends a whole lot more from which people I do things with than what I am doing. I have also found lots of friendly people around me that materialize the moment you break the barrier. As someone that is naturally introverted my mmorpg experience made it a whole lot easier to converse with people that are/were strangers.

iixviiiix · December 2019

Real life is a game with very bad design

Po_gg · December 2019

Mendel said:

I've learned little from MMORPGs, they have only reinforced a bleak view of humanity. The more I see the behavior of masses, the more I think we were the ones voted out of the tree by the cool apes.

That's how I feel too, haven't learned anything new, just reinforced on what I already felt. But of course I was always very thorough and accurate with my games selection, since you can't make a good community, nor improve a bad one.

If you find yourself in a good community, whether it's a usenet group, IRC server, forum, game, etc. you can try to preserve it, sometime you succeed, but more often it will go awry, simply due to the bad apples / human nature.

As Said said once to Shani (TSW

), if you truly want to understand humanity, you only need to read the comment section on Youtube...

Gutlard said:

I've learned that anonymity is the worst for our primitive human race.

"Then a stupid 12 years old swatted me and I've learned anonymity is the best for our primitive human race"

AlBQuirky · January 2020

Scot said:

Community is important and most of us live in areas which lack it. We have now substituted online friends for our neighbours and a veneer of a online community. Now that online community can be more than a veneer in some MMOs for example, but in social media it is by and large very shallow.

I wonder if this is a "chicken or the egg" scenario? Did local "real life" communities dwindle due to online communities (like payphones disappearing because cell phones became the norm) or did local communities dwindling cause online communities to form and thrive?

The "inconvenience" of real life could be a major factor. Instead of taking the time and effort to actually go somewhere, you click a few links, type a couple of abbreviated words, and voila!

Palebane · January 2020

I follow the laws of Bertoxxulous.

Scot · January 2020

AlBQuirky said:

Scot said:

Community is important and most of us live in areas which lack it. We have now substituted online friends for our neighbours and a veneer of a online community. Now that online community can be more than a veneer in some MMOs for example, but in social media it is by and large very shallow.

I wonder if this is a "chicken or the egg" scenario? Did local "real life" communities dwindle due to online communities (like payphones disappearing because cell phones became the norm) or did local communities dwindling cause online communities to form and thrive?

The "inconvenience" of real life could be a major factor. Instead of taking the time and effort to actually go somewhere, you click a few links, type a couple of abbreviated words, and voila!

At its heart the problem is caused by motility, first physical travel as people could do things like work really far from their homes. Secondly as we now log in and mentality travel. In the background is the break up of large family social groups and so on. The fact is I know about ten times as many people in any MMO I have played who would help me out in game than I do neighbours who would help me out in RL. But then modern living is extremely self sufficient, we just don't need neighbours like we used too. That has an enormous impact on community.

Amathe · January 2020

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

If someone told me something as complex as a MMORPG was made by random code I'd look at them like they were crazy. Reality, the universe and all the rules are so much more complex maybe there had to be creator.

That is called the teleological argument. Much has been written about it, if you want to check it out.

MMOExposed · January 2020

A few things I want to say in this thread on my ideals and opinions on the MMO game design that I would like going forward. I am kind of spent on time, so forgive me for the lack of detail if it comes off that way.

Monetary Model:
I believe Buy to Play is the best model with Item Shop for non P2W gizmos and skins. Guild Wars 2 is the best model here. I will take this. But if going with Sub based, I would stay at 5$ per month with Item store for skins.

PvE:
Open world PvE been a neglected feature over the years in exchange for the Open World PvP stuff. Open World need Dynamic Events of different levels to bring people together for large group PvE content that casuals and core players can easily get together for and core players can lead the masses from there. again Guild Wars 2 did a good job here, but been doing a bad job lately with their Meta Events. Not sure their developers really understand why they were successful in this early on. Spawn timers for large scale Open World PvE is a great concept since players know where to go and when to be there for more players to also be there to join in on the fight and objective.
-
Instanced Raids and Dungeons should still be a thing, but I am under the belief that a Party Dungeon doesnt need to be limited to 5 players or less. I want to see Party Dungeons of 7-10 players, same Trinity (1 Tank, 1 Melee Off tank/DPS, 1 Healer, 1 Support Heal/DPS. rest DPS) Rift did a good job here in Vanilla Rift for its Hybrid group roles which made group dungeons fun to play and less stressful. There are less Tanks and Healers per DPS in most MMOs, so why not group more DPS players per tank/Healer in the group? Raids can stay Hard Core like traditional with some easier raids here and there for intro raiders.

PvP:
I am tired of the fail string of FFA Open World MMOs or the FFA Lite Open World MMOs like Archeage. I want Faction PvP. I dont mind Open World PvP, but need to be optional and Faction only. No FFA. No going rogue. None of that stuff. World of Warcraft had a good balance of Open world PvP and PvE. I like Faction City raids. Need more mechanics to help organize these type of things in the world though.
-
Instanced PvP is also a great thing IMO. Again WoW has been one of my best experiences with this with their Battlegrounds, and also with Vanilla Rift close by. But No Arenas/rated small scale PvP. it always lead to balance issues and always creates a bad corrupt Min/Max strict Meta community, limiting freedom of builds.

Classes:
I like Guild Wars 2 model here as well as Vanilla- WoTLK model here with classes being Unique and having their own Unique game mechanics from each other. I dont like Archeage system in which classes are just the abilities on the character. There are no class mechanics. I still want customization, but I want it within the bounds of my class' game designed mechanics.

Housing:
After experiencing Archeage Unchained, screw Open World Housing. I believe Rift had one of the best player Housing experiences. Some Open World Market Building, and town building is also a good thing as well, but I still want my own instanced housing that I can fully decorate and build in like a Minecraft/7 Days to Die sort of thing.

Theme:
I still prefer High Fantasy theme, like World of Warcraft and Guild Wars 2. This includes the large weapons and high fantasy armors and stuff like that.

skeaser · January 2020

An idea is a thought, a notion, or a concept. An ideal is a lofty aim when it's used as a noun and the rough equivalent of "excellent" or "perfect" when it's used as an adjective.

Howdy, Stranger!

Any profound ideals or views come from your MMORPG experience

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Any profound ideals or views come from your MMORPG experience

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV