Well, the OP reads more like "Why ESO is better than WoW" than "How ESO is different than WoW", so that was disappointing. I was expecting more of a dispassionate, side-by-side comparison. Instead, I read more of a "this is better than that".
For what it's worth, I agree completely that ESO is not a WoW Clone; no more so than any other MMO is in that it has quests and levels and combat, etc. ESO is more like an Elder Scrolls game with MMO elements built around it (which can make it feel less like a TES game at times, but that's a different discussion). I always got the same sense from FFXI - where it was a Final Fantasy game with MMO elements built on to it (FFXIV, incidentally, is the exact reverse of that).
So, to wit, I agree with the OP's title, and arguments they make along the way do ring true (combat and character building being more open and diverse, world-design being more world-like, exploration being more rewarded, etc.)
I just feel like their argument is lost in the "my game is better than yours" approach to the post. Going on the history of these forums, and others, people can get hung up on the "which is better" part, and miss the intended point of the post.
An actual, impartial side-by-side needn't, and really shouldn't, try to state which is better. Someone could fully appreciate the openness and design of ESO, but still prefer something more like WoW. And vice-versa.
An entire thread with people discussing how much of a clone ESO is.. but you guys swear it never happened? So there are no people in that thread saying its a clone? This is one example. I've seen several of these over the years, threads, comments, etc.
Hell just recently HERE an article was written about ESO and the writer said he thought ESO was a WoW clone at first. So to say that not ONE person ever had the thought is silly. To say that nobody thinks so even right now is just as silly. I don't care that you don't think so. great. It does not make it less valid what I'm saying. Just because you haven't seen it does not mean it hasn't happened.
I was more so talking to the ones that do and have considered it a WoW clone. I'm not here to debate which of you said so. I just know people have said it several times over the years and I saw it again recently.
It's like you guys are trying so hard to disprove something. I don't understand what you gain from it though. My writing isn't to debate "The People that said ESO is a WoW Clone" Idc frankly. My point is more about the difference between the two. How one is superior to the other in many ways.
EDIT: You realize that not everyone has played ESO right? What if they heard it was a clone a few years back and wrote it off? I think it helps to hear a current opinion. Instead, people are in this thread trying to dispute if they said it, or heard it. weird.
You realize the example you gave has 1 person in 3 pages of responses claiming Wow is somewhat a Wow clone( basing that on its convienence and casual approach) , every other response is
NO its not
And more people saying they have never seen it referenced as such ...
yeah, if it was an actual WoW clone, ESO could be a great game , now it's just bad, it's not that popular but even it's not popular I'd say it's still so overrated game that deserves less audience, it's just sad take on the Elder scrolls franchise ...combat does so much in games and combat in ESO? ouch, pure tragedy
You realize the example you gave has 1 person in 3 pages of responses claiming Wow is somewhat a Wow clone( basing that on its convienence and casual approach) , every other response is
NO its not
And more people saying they have never seen it referenced as such ...
To be fair, I've seen people call just about everything a WoW clone, including non-MMOs. I've seen people unironically call EQ1 a WoW Clone.
People will make those comparisons based on the most tenuous details. "The game has you running around in a fantasy setting killing mobs and doing quests... And there's COLORS! Ergo, WoW Clone". Nooooot exactly a convincing case, ya know? lol
I have seen people call ESO a WoW clone as well. Is it pervasive? No. But it does happen. Apparently enough that it irked the OP into writing their post lol.
An entire thread with people discussing how much of a clone ESO is.. but you guys swear it never happened? So there are no people in that thread saying its a clone? This is one example. I've seen several of these over the years, threads, comments, etc.
Hell just recently HERE an article was written about ESO and the writer said he thought ESO was a WoW clone at first. So to say that not ONE person ever had the thought is silly. To say that nobody thinks so even right now is just as silly. I don't care that you don't think so. great. It does not make it less valid what I'm saying. Just because you haven't seen it does not mean it hasn't happened.
I was more so talking to the ones that do and have considered it a WoW clone. I'm not here to debate which of you said so. I just know people have said it several times over the years and I saw it again recently.
It's like you guys are trying so hard to disprove something. I don't understand what you gain from it though. My writing isn't to debate "The People that said ESO is a WoW Clone" Idc frankly. My point is more about the difference between the two. How one is superior to the other in many ways.
EDIT: You realize that not everyone has played ESO right? What if they heard it was a clone a few years back and wrote it off? I think it helps to hear a current opinion. Instead, people are in this thread trying to dispute if they said it, or heard it. weird.
You realize the example you gave has 1 person in 3 pages of responses claiming Wow is somewhat a Wow clone( basing that on its convience) , every other response is
NO its not
And more people saying they have never seen it referenced as such ...
Yup, and it's also a 4 and a half year old thread.
This is part of the reason I don't post much. People here are so argumentive. It's like you guys come here looking for stupid shit to pick out and argue about.
I literally said this was my opinion and not an attack on WoW. ESO is not a WoW clone here is why.
I Gave well thought out reasons and even one could say I believe ESO is better. I said such.
People were saying "Nobody ever said that I never heard that here, prove somebody said it" as if them not seeing it makes it invalid. so I posted a link of some people saying it. There are several threads, I told you to look it up because it's not my point. My point was about the two games being different but yet and still, here we are with people still talking about who said what.
IDC who said what man. I really don't care, you guys care about that. I care about the fact that ESO isn't a WoW clone. Very weird that people are trying to twist it into something else completely. I notice its the same people in every thread that do this.
Just because you didn't hear it, or you didn't say it, doesn't make it any less true what I'm saying. I'm confused about why that is the talking point anyway for you instead of what's actually being talked about.
Old people are really amazing.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I think ESO is a great game.. I just wish all the cool looking shit wasn't through the crown store. Several mounts/armor I would love to have but would cost a ton of money.
How much of a game has to be based on the same design principles for it to be considered a clone?
Both are themeparks
Both are based on the holy trinity
Both are quest based
Both are based on vertical progression
Both are primarily PvE with PvP set off to the side
Both are fantasy games
Both are primarily solo leveling games with group-based endgame
Both have extensive gear grinds at endgame
So, there are certainly a hell of a lot of similarities. Enough to call it a clone?
The primary differences, as far as I can tell are:
ESO has shallow action combat, WoW has (had?) deeper tab-target combat
WoWs quests are linear, ESO's are non-linear
Different approaches to PvP
I'm not arguing either way, just to be clear. I never got into WoW, only trying it out after having played LotRO and so was put off by the childish styling. I wanted to like ESO, but the combat just sucked big time, sooooo shallow! All I'm saying is that there are more similarities in design philosophy than there are differences.
Also, like others have said, it doesn't really make a difference whether something is called a clone or not. I don't find it helpful. For example, I loved vanilla LotRO, but disliked WoW and grew to hate SWTOR. Supposedly, they're all basically the same game, certainly sharing tons of similarities. But LotRO's inclusion of support classes and more mature theme and community meant I just had a ton of fun, whereas SWTORs shallow combat, easy content and poorly designed meta game meant i didnt have much fun at all.
This is part of the reason I don't post much. People here are so argumentive. It's like you guys come here looking for stupid shit to pick out and argue about.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
ESO is not a WoW clone. ESO was designed for the console; your action bar has 5 slots, +1 Ultimate, that's it. At level 15, you can switch out to another 5 slot action bar. All of the WoW clones allow you to have dozens or more abilities slotted at once.
Since everybody has so few action slots, almost everybody has the same builds. Many builds give up one or more slots for buffs you have to keep on both bars, leaving even fewer abilities available. And all magic users will have either a destro staff or restro staff. So being one class or another really boils down to just a couple class abilities, with the rest being the same thing everybody else has. Stamina the same way, everybody has the same weapons, meaning the different classes again boil down to just a couple class skills difference.
And you can't build hybrid characters. You either go magic or stamina. Every class can do every role, because there isn't much difference between the classes. Different races have even less differentiation.
And unlike DAOC, where the three sides have different classes with different abilities, the three sides in ESO all have the same classes.
WoW and ESO share many of the same game features but it's like comparing fired chicken to Chicken Parm. I have been playing WoW on and off since 2004 and ESO for 6 months. WoW changed leveling by adding quests. ESO made quests into more by telling a story. WoW has has many ways to PvP that's purely about gear and out of reach by most casual player. ESO has made PvP be about skill by keeping all gear within reach of anybody if you can maintain a connection to their servers in Cyrodiil lol.
WoW has the game so pazed you can't play with friends unless you are on the very same steps of the quest. ESO has fixed the mess of their launch by making sure you can team with anyone of any level of any quest or dungeon.
WoW gates content by levels, making most zones feel empty and not worth revisiting. ESO is filled with players of all levels, helping people and working together to complete content.
WoW has crafting that's mostly useless but for a few select trades. Other then when expansions hit most people don't need crafted items to upgrade their gear. ESO's has a crafters in high demand.
If ESO could fix their server problems, I think ESO could easily compete with WoW. WoW has gotten lazy and is mostly resting on pass success or ripping ideas from upcoming new MMOs they have lost their passion. ESO has the passion and drive to make a MMO fans can get behind but keeps making stupid mistakes on how to handle servers. Still IMO ESO has surpassed WoW in quality and passion.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've never really heard ESO being described as a WoW clone before.
Every now and then there's a crazy, like those who call WOW a sandbox or say EVE isn't a skill based game....it happens.
Wait @Kyleran. You mean to tell me there are legit people in the world who saw that WoW is a sandbox and mean it.
Not sure how legit they are, but their confusion / error tends to lie with claims since WOW is a persistent open virtual world it is ergo a sandbox, or some such as this.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've never really heard ESO being described as a WoW clone before.
Every now and then there's a crazy, like those who call WOW a sandbox or say EVE isn't a skill based game....it happens.
Wait @Kyleran. You mean to tell me there are legit people in the world who saw that WoW is a sandbox and mean it.
Not sure how legit they are, but their confusion / error tends to lie with claims since WOW is a persistent open virtual world it is ergo a sandbox, or some such as this.
WoW isn’t a sandbox you sillies, its a Star Citizen clone. (ESO totally is a WoW clone btw, just helping the OP here).
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Comments
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
For what it's worth, I agree completely that ESO is not a WoW Clone; no more so than any other MMO is in that it has quests and levels and combat, etc. ESO is more like an Elder Scrolls game with MMO elements built around it (which can make it feel less like a TES game at times, but that's a different discussion). I always got the same sense from FFXI - where it was a Final Fantasy game with MMO elements built on to it (FFXIV, incidentally, is the exact reverse of that).
So, to wit, I agree with the OP's title, and arguments they make along the way do ring true (combat and character building being more open and diverse, world-design being more world-like, exploration being more rewarded, etc.)
I just feel like their argument is lost in the "my game is better than yours" approach to the post. Going on the history of these forums, and others, people can get hung up on the "which is better" part, and miss the intended point of the post.
An actual, impartial side-by-side needn't, and really shouldn't, try to state which is better. Someone could fully appreciate the openness and design of ESO, but still prefer something more like WoW. And vice-versa.
People will make those comparisons based on the most tenuous details. "The game has you running around in a fantasy setting killing mobs and doing quests... And there's COLORS! Ergo, WoW Clone". Nooooot exactly a convincing case, ya know? lol
I have seen people call ESO a WoW clone as well. Is it pervasive? No. But it does happen. Apparently enough that it irked the OP into writing their post lol.
I literally said this was my opinion and not an attack on WoW. ESO is not a WoW clone here is why.
I Gave well thought out reasons and even one could say I believe ESO is better. I said such.
People were saying "Nobody ever said that I never heard that here, prove somebody said it" as if them not seeing it makes it invalid. so I posted a link of some people saying it. There are several threads, I told you to look it up because it's not my point. My point was about the two games being different but yet and still, here we are with people still talking about who said what.
IDC who said what man. I really don't care, you guys care about that. I care about the fact that ESO isn't a WoW clone. Very weird that people are trying to twist it into something else completely. I notice its the same people in every thread that do this.
Just because you didn't hear it, or you didn't say it, doesn't make it any less true what I'm saying. I'm confused about why that is the talking point anyway for you instead of what's actually being talked about.
Old people are really amazing.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Combat, classes and window dressing many times doesn't change the feel that you're mostly doing the same types of quest for experience.
WoW clones stopped being relevant somewhere around SWTOR;s release.
At least that's about the time WoW Clone threads started taking more than 2 days for a new one to appear.
Fixed the last sentence for you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
WoW has the game so pazed you can't play with friends unless you are on the very same steps of the quest. ESO has fixed the mess of their launch by making sure you can team with anyone of any level of any quest or dungeon.
WoW gates content by levels, making most zones feel empty and not worth revisiting. ESO is filled with players of all levels, helping people and working together to complete content.
WoW has crafting that's mostly useless but for a few select trades. Other then when expansions hit most people don't need crafted items to upgrade their gear. ESO's has a crafters in high demand.
If ESO could fix their server problems, I think ESO could easily compete with WoW. WoW has gotten lazy and is mostly resting on pass success or ripping ideas from upcoming new MMOs they have lost their passion. ESO has the passion and drive to make a MMO fans can get behind but keeps making stupid mistakes on how to handle servers. Still IMO ESO has surpassed WoW in quality and passion.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I have a similar argument with someone when I say there are people on this forum calling wow a single player game.