The heavily instanced action combat model is part of a lot of Korean imports. I think that Dungeon Fighter Online was the original success that others like Elsword, Vindictus, Dragon Nest, Soulworker, and so forth were all chasing, in roughly the sense that a lot of MMORPGs were trying to copy WoW's success.
The reason I cite Kritika is that it's the one that actually has really good combat. Though if I'm telling you to try Kritika, I should warn you that nothing else about the game besides the combat merits saying anything much nicer about it than "this isn't bad enough to ruin the game".
Spiral Knights is an American-made game, from the defunct indie developer Three Rings, which is best known for Puzzle Pirates. After the studio got shut down by Sega, some former employees got permission to keep the games running.
I expect the combat to vary just like it does in most games. If i fight 3 even con bees solo,i expect to die,if in a group then i expect good team work we win the fight 90% of the time.
If you played FFXI then you know that you get bonus xp for stringing the battles within a certain amount of time.So then you have to balance your resources and time and pick the proper pulls.
Also Even con should be different from an even con level 3 Bee and an even con level 50 Wolf/Lion.
Inside of Atlas i get pretty much exactly what i might expect in real,aggro creatures,docile creatures,some that will fight back and some will flee.An even lion could likely kill me depending how well equipped i am while an even level Monkey would be a rather easy kill and even con Hen would try to waddle away in fear. Then we get into a creature with a lower level,some like those lions might cower a bit or look like they are sizing you up while a lower con Shark will usually straight up attack you unless a very wide difference in level and gear.
What i do not like is the constant use of two things 1 Instances,the best foes do not need to be in an instance 2 Bosses,you do not need to tag every tough foe as a Boss.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I want for the battle or the process of preparing for it (or both) to involve interesting gameplay decisions. It shouldn't feel like just another iteration in a for loop that I have to slog through way too many times without any need to pay attention.
There are many ways to offer interesting gameplay decisions, from action combat where you have to dodge, to turn-based combat where you have to counter what your adversary is doing, to combat that runs on its own after complex preparation to ensure that you only engage the enemy in battle under favorable circumstances (e.g., see the Europa Universalis games). But what I do ought to matter, rather than just being a case of you win no matter what happens.
I like it when you have to make split decisions and react, and counter react. I've seen it in PvP but I don't recall having that in PvE.
LotRO used to have this, i.e. it had depth and therefore came down to decision making.
Resource management was a big thing, so you couldn't just spam whatever you wanted or you'd be out of power very quickly. Every class had big, impactful skills on a variety of cooldowns, so you had to make wise decisions about when to use them. There was a ton of interdependency between classes, so all your timing had to be matched with others. Plus, it had the usual randomness in PvE (to hit chance, crit damage, parry, evade, block etc) to ensure things didn't get samey and you had to react.
One of the big differences I saw in LotRO compared to other similar games was the various skills I liked to call "oh shit" skills. the shit has hit the fan, people are dying and you're about to wipe. Other MMOs I've played, that's it, you wipe and retry. LotRO gave you a load of skills to help you recover, but most on long cooldowns. The randomness and challenging content meant you regularly hit these "oh shit" moments and it really was split-second decision making that meant success or failure.
Of course, as with any system with depth, the depth only comes out when doing challenging content. Challenging content was largely removed from LotRO over the years so most people didn't really experience the depth on offer.
I want for the battle or the process of preparing for it (or both) to involve interesting gameplay decisions. It shouldn't feel like just another iteration in a for loop that I have to slog through way too many times without any need to pay attention.
There are many ways to offer interesting gameplay decisions, from action combat where you have to dodge, to turn-based combat where you have to counter what your adversary is doing, to combat that runs on its own after complex preparation to ensure that you only engage the enemy in battle under favorable circumstances (e.g., see the Europa Universalis games). But what I do ought to matter, rather than just being a case of you win no matter what happens.
I like it when you have to make split decisions and react, and counter react. I've seen it in PvP but I don't recall having that in PvE.
LotRO used to have this, i.e. it had depth and therefore came down to decision making.
Resource management was a big thing, so you couldn't just spam whatever you wanted or you'd be out of power very quickly. Every class had big, impactful skills on a variety of cooldowns, so you had to make wise decisions about when to use them. There was a ton of interdependency between classes, so all your timing had to be matched with others. Plus, it had the usual randomness in PvE (to hit chance, crit damage, parry, evade, block etc) to ensure things didn't get samey and you had to react.
One of the big differences I saw in LotRO compared to other similar games was the various skills I liked to call "oh shit" skills. the shit has hit the fan, people are dying and you're about to wipe. Other MMOs I've played, that's it, you wipe and retry. LotRO gave you a load of skills to help you recover, but most on long cooldowns. The randomness and challenging content meant you regularly hit these "oh shit" moments and it really was split-second decision making that meant success or failure.
Of course, as with any system with depth, the depth only comes out when doing challenging content. Challenging content was largely removed from LotRO over the years so most people didn't really experience the depth on offer.
Thanks for the info. That sounds like an interesting system.
Your final comment just sticks in my craw (like for many others). Everything is being dumbed down to air-head level.
I really liked how GW2 came up with dynamic events. You start with a simple fight that in the higher zones takes you across large areas of the game and the number of NPCs grow according to the number of players that get involved until you get to the world boss. I still have my favorite ones which never get old, like the sacred beer run.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I really liked how GW2 came up with dynamic events. You start with a simple fight that in the higher zones takes you across large areas of the game and the number of NPCs grow according to the number of players that get involved until you get to the world boss. I still have my favorite ones which never get old, like the sacred beer run.
I'd like to see that idea expanded on. First of all, why does it have to be fixed? Couldn't this sort of thing be made to happen at any place in the entire game world? (Shameless Sandbox plug.)
Secondly, couldn't it be part of a much bigger, world wide, event? As in some Demon-Deity trying to take over the entire world? (Shameless Sandbox plug number 2.)
Player vs environment I want to have fun in a nice looking game building unique housing, killing, and looting.
I expect roaming mobs and pet system at box price no hidden charges. Multiple pets in combat along side my main character. Pretty Skyrim'ish landscapes with relaxing fishing that isn't a pain in the ass mini-game but actually works no effort need apply. Cause fishing is to relax not give you carpel tunnel with your controller/mouse.
I have been playing Ark Survival for over a year now and I don't see ever leaving unless someone makes another take on Ark; as in vampires vs werewolves with ark dynamics and gargoyle'ish pets. Ark has the longest running time playing an mmorpg for me. I fucking meant it when I said I wanted dragons and someone finally listened. However no one of yet has let me play as the dragon.
Comments
The reason I cite Kritika is that it's the one that actually has really good combat. Though if I'm telling you to try Kritika, I should warn you that nothing else about the game besides the combat merits saying anything much nicer about it than "this isn't bad enough to ruin the game".
Spiral Knights is an American-made game, from the defunct indie developer Three Rings, which is best known for Puzzle Pirates. After the studio got shut down by Sega, some former employees got permission to keep the games running.
If i fight 3 even con bees solo,i expect to die,if in a group then i expect good team work we win the fight 90% of the time.
If you played FFXI then you know that you get bonus xp for stringing the battles within a certain amount of time.So then you have to balance your resources and time and pick the proper pulls.
Also Even con should be different from an even con level 3 Bee and an even con level 50 Wolf/Lion.
Inside of Atlas i get pretty much exactly what i might expect in real,aggro creatures,docile creatures,some that will fight back and some will flee.An even lion could likely kill me depending how well equipped i am while an even level Monkey would be a rather easy kill and even con Hen would try to waddle away in fear.
Then we get into a creature with a lower level,some like those lions might cower a bit or look like they are sizing you up while a lower con Shark will usually straight up attack you unless a very wide difference in level and gear.
What i do not like is the constant use of two things
1 Instances,the best foes do not need to be in an instance
2 Bosses,you do not need to tag every tough foe as a Boss.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Your final comment just sticks in my craw (like for many others).
Everything is being dumbed down to air-head level.
Once upon a time....
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
First of all, why does it have to be fixed? Couldn't this sort of thing be made to happen at any place in the entire game world? (Shameless Sandbox plug.)
Secondly, couldn't it be part of a much bigger, world wide, event? As in some Demon-Deity trying to take over the entire world? (Shameless Sandbox plug number 2.)
These are the things I dream of for MMORPGs.
Once upon a time....
I expect roaming mobs and pet system at box price no hidden charges. Multiple pets in combat along side my main character. Pretty Skyrim'ish landscapes with relaxing fishing that isn't a pain in the ass mini-game but actually works no effort need apply. Cause fishing is to relax not give you carpel tunnel with your controller/mouse.
I have been playing Ark Survival for over a year now and I don't see ever leaving unless someone makes another take on Ark; as in vampires vs werewolves with ark dynamics and gargoyle'ish pets. Ark has the longest running time playing an mmorpg for me. I fucking meant it when I said I wanted dragons and someone finally listened. However no one of yet has let me play as the dragon.