LotRO's Style Of Storytelling Is Showing It's Age - MMORPG.com

System · December 2019

LotRO's Style Of Storytelling Is Showing It's Age - MMORPG.com

As Bradford moves towards the finish line of his review of Minas Morgul, something has been nagging at him for the last few weeks - something that only became really clear over the past weekend. LotRO's storytelling style is, unfortunately, starting to show it's age.

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Sovrath · December 2019

I'm on the fence about this.

On one hand, "yeah, it's an old game" and making too many changes might change too much.

On the other hand, and to the point ... I kind of agree. Not only do I agree, I've always felt this way.

I remember seeing the game play out the Moria story ... erm was it Durin's fall? Names don't stick ... and it felt horrible. It looked horrible.

I just don't think they have enough money to pay for voice actors and I seriously doubt their engine can handle well done/well "shot" cut scenes.

I also remember the prologue to the High Elf Story where you literally sit there and watch text go by for a loonnnng time. Not captivating.

Still, should it be changed? Would changing it lose other customers? Not sure. I think if it was my game I'd try to change it.

Deathleecher · December 2019

I only listen to VO, i never read text.

if a game dose not have VO i get nearly to nothing off the story. Im over reading quest text. Ill read the few notes laying around, but Quests and NPC need VO.

But LOTRO, i really think its an underrated mmorpg. If this game had a bigger budget it would be sooooo goood.

Im enjoying the cotnent right now

Po_gg · December 2019

I don't think that should be a priority, or even on the priority list... and not just due to the money issue as Sovrath said - though I agree on that too, since they clearly don't have enough and even if they had any extra resources, that should go on bugfixing, then on new content, and if still have some leftover then more bugfixing.

The engine is the bigger problem here, I just don't see how could they lean more heavily on cutscenes and voice acting... Unless a full overhaul, which puts us back at square one, no resources, and even if had, there are much more pressing issues, plus content. Not to mention the massive work it'd require.

Nothing's wrong with the written text, imo. Fits nicely to a game which is based on books... but that's maybe just me.

WhiteLantern · December 2019

Is the game getting old, or are you? We age, we change, our likes and dislikes wax and wane. Just a thought.

Utinni · December 2019

Pay X to teleport to quest

Nebless · December 2019

I could care less about voice acting, first off I'd rather read, 2nd if it's voice acted, why are they running the script at the bottom of the screen, come on one or the other and 3rd most times the voice doesn't match how 'I" think the character should, I mean you could say sure it has voice acting, but if Aragon was done by Pee Wee Herman ...... ?

While it would be great if EVERYTHING in a MMO was exciting, you're going to get boring stuff and frankly any of the council quests or even the one's where you go back in time and be someone else just aren't fun and I don't think they'd ever be.

gervaise1 · December 2019

WhiteLantern said:

Is the game getting old, or are you? We age, we change, our likes and dislikes wax and wane. Just a thought.

The game is getting old.

Has the playerbase gotten older? Possibly - if so though that would suggest that LotR hasn't attracted "younger players" ....the playerbase has probably aged.

cameltosis · December 2019

Firstly, a bit of a disclaimer: I dislike stories in my computer games, and I really hate them in MMOs. Story is not gameplay, the stories are usually generic and weak compared to published authors, and my actions (and the actions of everyone else in the game) always contradict the story.

with that in mind, I can't agree with you.

Wasting money on non-gameplay content is silly. You want to be spending that money on gameplay, whether that be new gameplay or fixing/polishing existing gameplay. That is how you engage your community, that is how you create fun memories and increase retention. Voice-overs and cutscenes don't do either of those things, they just give us a bit of wonder/delight the first time we see them, but those feelings pass very quickly.

On the actual stories in LotRO themselves, they started going downhill even before Moria launched (forochel was weak!). Each expansion contained progressively worse writing. the epic stories remained OK for a while, though the gameplay of the epic stories was lacking from launch. but all the side quests and area quests were pretty rubbish in the expansions.

What made the biggest difference in LotRO to me was the introduction of the map markers. At launch, you HAD to read all the quests, because that was the only way to figure out where to go. This would mean re-reading a lot of quests and this forced engagement with the story resulted in more of it sticking. As soon as they added the map markers, you didn't need to read the quests any more. Even if you did, you'd only read it once, then just follow the map marker. This meant less engagement with the story and thus less enjoyment for the players, but from the devs point of view it meant they didn't have to put as much effort into the writing either, and it showed.

Sovrath · December 2019

cameltosis said:

Wasting money on non-gameplay content is silly. You want to be spending that money on gameplay,

Unless people are looking for stories.

The problem with your statement (and I'm sure you know this) is that it's very unique to you.

And of course those like you.

The whole idea of a role playing game is that your character "plays a role" at the very least and that there is some sort of narrative for that role to fit in.

Now, whether an mmorpg should have story is up for debate. But since "rpg" is in there it probably should.

At least on some level. It might not be an actual "story" but it could very well be things happening in the world that affect your character and that your character needs to respond to.

I don't know of any single player role playing games that aren't story driven. Table Top games are story driven unless the game master is just leading the players through a hack and slash with no background and no reason they should be there. "Usually" that's not the case.

In Lord of the Rings Online the developers decided to make it story based. So "the game play" is also story and therefore they could apply resources to make that story more compelling or better.

Additionally, if there is no "story" of some sort you sort of get, for example "Doom." You just move through and destroy things. That's fun but can get a bit old.

I also agree on the map markers. When they took away the need to actually read the quests and figure out where you were going it was a huge downfall for the game.

cameltosis · December 2019

When you a reading quest text, or watching a cut-scene, you are no longer playing the game. So, story as dictated by the developers is never gameplay. And if you aren't playing, you are not role-playing. It is only when you are actually playing the game, taking action, interacting, that you are able to roleplay.

So, story is useful in setting up the roleplaying, by giving you a context from which to base your roleplaying decisions on. But story is not gameplay and thus can never be roleplaying.

This is why I prefer absolutely minimal storytelling from the developers. Give me the bare minimum to give me the context of the world, then let my actions fill out the content. That way the story becomes much more convincing and immersive, and also fits in with other players in a multiplayer game.

Weirdly, I feel that this was how vanilla LotRO kinda worked out. Each quest gave us a few paragraphs of text to give us the context and directions, but then just left us to it. When we handed in there wasn't much additional text or follow-ups, just a thank you. It made no assumptions about difficulty or our actions so there were no contraditions.

By contrast, the epic books were the other way around: lots of text, lots of additional dialogue, but minimal gameplay and the gameplay contradicted the story. So many of the epic book quests were designed simply to move us from zone to zone and they tried to cover that lack of gameplay with story. I hated it. Sooooo much! Can't remember which book it was, maybe vol 1 book 5, but I remember it being just endless riding from camp to camp, speaking to NPCs but never really playing the game. What a waste of resources.

Warlyx · December 2019

DMKano said:

Production value is hard to achieve for games that are not big budget, and lotro at this point is certainly not that.

Also voiceovers for me personally in MMORPGs are a total waste - as I fast click through all the dialog and never read a word - I do the same with voice overs

I haven't read s single questline since 2002 I think.

On the flip side I read every word in single player games and listen to all voiceovers.

That's just me, obviously others do it their own way.

u are missing tons of good stories , i read the main quests of mmorpgs and skip sidequests

Lotro is a story itself , yeah we know it already but still...there are some funny moments and if u are just a fan u will notice tons of details on the books

Mendel · December 2019

This is a difficult subject. It is somewhat admirable that a game attempts to bring a story into its domain, especially one a story like LotR. More than that, there appears to have been some effort devoted to keep the story on point in LotRO.

However, reading (and cut scenes) are primarily single person experiences. Many people can read a book and come away with different impressions. Same with cut scenes. But those impressions are built by the individual's experience. Individual experiences don't really work well in MMORPGs. They are built upon communal experiences.

I've always thought that these attempts to stick with the LotR story line detracted from LotRO. If I am to be presented with a long cut scene in a game, I'm going to want to make some kind of decision at that point. The scripted dialog/cut scenes seem to do that for me. That's a story thing (the author makes the decisions), not a game thing (player makes the decisions). The only real decision the player can make is to abandon the story line, leaving all the effort put into that aspect as wasted resources, as @cameltosis might say.

Sovrath · December 2019

cameltosis said:

When you a reading quest text, or watching a cut-scene, you are no longer playing the game.

But 'you are.'

This is the "internal" part of playing the game. It allows you to understand the world, the characters. It is an integral part of a role playing game.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of crappy stories in mmorpg's and some are just "we have 3000 quests!" but there is another axis that you just don't like but that others do and that others appreciate.

Granted, if all I'm doing is reading text and collecting 3 things and then repeating, then that's crappy.

But I can assure you that internalizing "story" is a part of game play. At least for some and definitely for me.

koboldfodder · December 2019

Most people who are playing the game have been so for a long time. There are probably few, if any, new people trying out the game.

So by now, veteran players know the quest mechanics but they also know what quests you can just skim over or not even read.

With each quest hub, you have the usual fetch/gather/kill quests. It is always the same, they need food so go out and kill bears or boars or whatever. No need to read those quests. Just look at the highlighted area on the map and go.

But there is an story arc to each zone and that is the one that you usually want to read because, for the most part, it is well written AND it ties into the main story arc for the expansion. Plus that will tie into the epic quest which starts at level 0 and goes all the way to the last quest in the game.

The Shadow of Angmar epic questline is great. Lots of nice characters and well written. The Evendim and Forochel ones are not so great. But the Mines of Morai questline is probably the best in the game and it wont get that good until you make your way through Rohan.

No way they could afford voice overs for the game, Turbine is a small company in MA. They could barely afford animators.

It would be nice to see the LOTR franchise with a company willing to spend 100 million....like Bioware did with SWTOR. That game is bad, but the voice overs are great.

Renfail · December 2019

Not all games can afford the dozens-of-employees size teams that are required to pull off elaborate cut scenes, not to mention the cost of union voice actors.

MightyUnclean · December 2019

Well, thank goodness we have a new LOTR MMO in development that will probably feature action combat and have 1/10th the story and lore of LOTRO.

winghaven1 · December 2019

Its* = possessive
It's = it is

lahnmir · December 2019

I think the way the story is told in LotRO fits its pace, theme and source perfectly. Why change one, if not the most distinguishing, feature of the game after a decade? Of course it is starting to show its age, you/we have been experiencing it for over 10 years. I wouldn’t have it any other way tbh.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Po_gg · December 2019

gervaise1 said:

Has the playerbase gotten older? Possibly - if so though that would suggest that LotR hasn't attracted "younger players" ....the playerbase has probably aged.

Since there's no actual data on it, possibly and probably might the accurate way to say, however I usually just use it as a fact

I'm fairly certain LotRO has the most mature playerbase among MMORPGs.

cameltosis said:

What made the biggest difference in LotRO to me was the introduction of the map markers. At launch, you HAD to read all the quests, because that was the only way to figure out where to go. This would mean re-reading a lot of quests and this forced engagement with the story resulted in more of it sticking.

Map comes up often since the rigid maps of LotRO used to be a common critique ("no zoom and search, how awful"), and I always cite the original way, and how it was even better (or worse, from the naysayer's perspective).

Sure, it's a personal thing, but I loved it. You were told where you find something, you explored the area (mapped out on the go), and where it was told you found your goal.

As you say "As soon as they added the map markers, you didn't need to read the quests any more.", I believe it wasn't a good move. Luckily the NPCs still give you the directions, so one can still play without the quest indicator GPS system - but sadly not without the entire map available right away when you enter a new area.

Ozmodan · December 2019

I personally like the lore. Some of you seem to forget that deaf people play this game so including text with actual VO is kind of mandatory. I say, to each his own. Silly to argue with anyone about how they like to play an MMO. I just do not find that their storytelling is any better or worse than other MMOs.

The population in Lotro is definitely older. nothing wrong with that either.

ZDPhoenix · December 2019

Fully agree on the storytelling style. With a new LoTR MMO on the horizon, I'm genuinely surprised anyone is still playing LoTRO on a regular basis; and not just casually or skipping around between games.

Lithuanian · December 2019

Mixed feelings about this. Sometimes I do wish more modern approach. Voiceovers would be nice.
At the other hand, I remember my days in SWTOR. Initially it was - wow, VO! Impressive! Give me more! After 100th voice over I became almost frustrated, like "omg, this again...". The only thing I waited for was my companion (love, you know...).
Would I personally like SWTOR style voiceovers in Lotro? Probably no. It would bore me after first few regions.

Would I like more animated cutscenes where I have just watch? Yes. As well as I understand team has too little money for it.

So, Lotro is probably to stay in this state...unless they find some Dragon hoard and invest into cinematics...

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