Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

EU Server Flamelash was destroyed overnight

2

Comments

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    edited December 2019
    Kyleran said:
    lahnmir said:
    Aren’t we all glad that Classic is finally there?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Though much vilified, in the end this guy will turn out being a prophet. He wasn't wrong.



    He wasn't wrong, just a douche about it. And he largely contributed to the problems that drove the issue in the first place.

    Sean Murray (of Hello Games and NMS) made a very insightful observation in an interview. To paraphrase, he said that gamers are great at finding out what's wrong and broken with a game design. They're horrible at coming up with solutions.

    Gamers were right about their complaints about WoW, its direction, and its problems. They were just wrong about the best way forward.
    Octagon7711Gdemami
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • azonic69azonic69 Member UncommonPosts: 95
    edited December 2019
    IceAge said:
    People please! 

    Please understand the meaning of a PvE and PvP server. Lots of cry babies rolled on a PvP server, expecting a PvE experience. That is your mistake. I'll really never understand people rolling on a PvP server and then coming to the forums, and cry about being ganged, over-numbered , etc. 

    PvE server is what you guys are looking for! Re-roll there and you will lvl up in peace.


    I get what you're saying but people are not complaining about PvP on a PvP server, they're complaining about unfair/unbalanced PvP on a server, in WoW's case, Horde to Alliance ratio is completely out of whack, with the Horde outnumbering Alliance massively on almost all realms.

    I'll really never understand people like you, that can't figure out that no one rolls on a PvP server to get killed over and over again because there's a faction imbalance.
    People that roll on PvP servers want one of two things
    1- Do the ganking (i think this is what most want)
    2- A fair fight (i think this is what most SAY they want)
    Caffynated
  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 3,079
    Isn't there server meshing or whatever? Does classic not have that?
    No, your server is it. . no cross realm stuff.
    BeansnBread

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • some-clueless-guysome-clueless-guy Member UncommonPosts: 220
    While I am 100% convinced that blizzard is doing their best to milk the players on retail wtih server transfers, on classic they don't really have much choice, ergo the transfers are free. Unlike in retail where server identity is pointless (guilds being ranked world-wide or region-wide) for classic it is one of the main charms the game has.


    Aside for the alliance-dominated PVE servers and a couple other exceptions where alliance is more numerous or the two factions are balanced, the large majority of servers are red.

    blizzard's "mistake" was to create few servers and to use phasing for launch, the result is this situation we have now: it's easier to shrug off being in the underdog faction when there are 1000 players on the server but it is impossible when there are 4000 since you cannot farm in the open world, you cannot travel — alliance guilds deciding to do Onyxia are going to be fodder for pvpers at the docks in manethil — and you certainly cannot pvp outside of BGs; and don't even think about Kazzak or Azuregos.
    The truth though is that their mistake wasn't a mistake really. They decided to try something different.  Had they opted to go the same old route of having many small servers without phasing, now or in a few weeks time, we would be having the first server deaths: not enough players to keep a healthy economy, or to do PVE content and not enough to find PVP targets.

    What boggles me is why would you give up now? Why leave a low pop faction right now when BGs are about to be introduced (coming next week) since giving the something to do will keep PVPers busy and make traveling to the instances if you travel with raidmates at least possible. Plus, if you are into pvp, with x-realm BGs, you can get twice as much PVP rank with half as much effort.
    Axxar
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,088
    The horde reaps what they sow on that server.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,524
    Someone just posted that paid transfers incoming. What a stroke of genius on Blizzard's part. Make the situation unbearable and then offer paid transfers.
    TorvalPalebane

  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 1,960
    While I am 100% convinced that blizzard is doing their best to milk the players on retail wtih server transfers, on classic they don't really have much choice, ergo the transfers are free. Unlike in retail where server identity is pointless (guilds being ranked world-wide or region-wide) for classic it is one of the main charms the game has.


    Aside for the alliance-dominated PVE servers and a couple other exceptions where alliance is more numerous or the two factions are balanced, the large majority of servers are red. 
    People love to post up that IronForge.pro link. I guess it is the best estimate we have at the moment. But, "Total Players: 320,000" should be enough to know the data is highly inaccurate. If a player hasn't shown up on Warcraft Logs then they aren't counted. Basically, this only shows the population numbers for raiders on each server.

    Even so, the majority of the servers in every region are at roughly a 40/60 split, which is about as balanced as any WoW server has ever been. Horde has always been the majority, there was no reason to expect it to be any different with Classic.

    It sucks for those few servers that are completely out of whack, but I'd say Blizzard has done as good a job as could have been expected when it comes to balance.

    People just like to whine and cry (not aimed at the OP or you, clueless).
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,524
    Stizzled said:
    While I am 100% convinced that blizzard is doing their best to milk the players on retail wtih server transfers, on classic they don't really have much choice, ergo the transfers are free. Unlike in retail where server identity is pointless (guilds being ranked world-wide or region-wide) for classic it is one of the main charms the game has.


    Aside for the alliance-dominated PVE servers and a couple other exceptions where alliance is more numerous or the two factions are balanced, the large majority of servers are red. 
    People love to post up that IronForge.pro link. I guess it is the best estimate we have at the moment. But, "Total Players: 320,000" should be enough to know the data is highly inaccurate. If a player hasn't shown up on Warcraft Logs then they aren't counted. Basically, this only shows the population numbers for raiders on each server.

    Even so, the majority of the servers in every region are at roughly a 40/60 split, which is about as balanced as any WoW server has ever been. Horde has always been the majority, there was no reason to expect it to be any different with Classic.

    It sucks for those few servers that are completely out of whack, but I'd say Blizzard has done as good a job as could have been expected when it comes to balance.

    People just like to whine and cry (not aimed at the OP or you, clueless).
    How about the fact that each server holds 5 times what vanilla did. Would that not make the situation and the ratio worse?
    TorvalAxxarNyctelios

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Member UncommonPosts: 852
    Kyleran said:
    lahnmir said:
    Aren’t we all glad that Classic is finally there?

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Though much vilified, in the end this guy will turn out being a prophet. He wasn't wrong.


    There's still a ton of people having a blast, but yeah a lot of people just had starry eyes thinking them and there small 3 man teams would be able to go on a rampage across Azeroth without much resistance. This phase two is unlike anything I've ever seen on retail or private servers. Any major checkpoint for alliance or shared hubs have raid groups waiting, while the smaller groups are running up the roads.
  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 1,960
    kitarad said:
    Stizzled said:
    While I am 100% convinced that blizzard is doing their best to milk the players on retail wtih server transfers, on classic they don't really have much choice, ergo the transfers are free. Unlike in retail where server identity is pointless (guilds being ranked world-wide or region-wide) for classic it is one of the main charms the game has.


    Aside for the alliance-dominated PVE servers and a couple other exceptions where alliance is more numerous or the two factions are balanced, the large majority of servers are red. 
    People love to post up that IronForge.pro link. I guess it is the best estimate we have at the moment. But, "Total Players: 320,000" should be enough to know the data is highly inaccurate. If a player hasn't shown up on Warcraft Logs then they aren't counted. Basically, this only shows the population numbers for raiders on each server.

    Even so, the majority of the servers in every region are at roughly a 40/60 split, which is about as balanced as any WoW server has ever been. Horde has always been the majority, there was no reason to expect it to be any different with Classic.

    It sucks for those few servers that are completely out of whack, but I'd say Blizzard has done as good a job as could have been expected when it comes to balance.

    People just like to whine and cry (not aimed at the OP or you, clueless).
    How about the fact that each server holds 5 times what vanilla did. Would that not make the situation and the ratio worse?
    Sure, if there was only 5x the amount of Horde, but that isn't the case except for a few servers (and a few servers with the opposite). The majority of servers, based on the limited data we have, are about as balanced as can realistically be hoped for.

    The numbers are higher, but the ratios remain the same.
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,524
    edited December 2019
    Stizzled said:
    kitarad said:
    Stizzled said:
    While I am 100% convinced that blizzard is doing their best to milk the players on retail wtih server transfers, on classic they don't really have much choice, ergo the transfers are free. Unlike in retail where server identity is pointless (guilds being ranked world-wide or region-wide) for classic it is one of the main charms the game has.


    Aside for the alliance-dominated PVE servers and a couple other exceptions where alliance is more numerous or the two factions are balanced, the large majority of servers are red. 
    People love to post up that IronForge.pro link. I guess it is the best estimate we have at the moment. But, "Total Players: 320,000" should be enough to know the data is highly inaccurate. If a player hasn't shown up on Warcraft Logs then they aren't counted. Basically, this only shows the population numbers for raiders on each server.

    Even so, the majority of the servers in every region are at roughly a 40/60 split, which is about as balanced as any WoW server has ever been. Horde has always been the majority, there was no reason to expect it to be any different with Classic.

    It sucks for those few servers that are completely out of whack, but I'd say Blizzard has done as good a job as could have been expected when it comes to balance.

    People just like to whine and cry (not aimed at the OP or you, clueless).
    How about the fact that each server holds 5 times what vanilla did. Would that not make the situation and the ratio worse?
    Sure, if there was only 5x the amount of Horde, but that isn't the case except for a few servers (and a few servers with the opposite). The majority of servers, based on the limited data we have, are about as balanced as can realistically be hoped for.

    The numbers are higher, but the ratios remain the same.
    While the ratio may remain the same the surface area available on the various areas haven't been increased. While in the past when you played and an area held 100 people which could spread out and still find spots to hide out when that number increases to 500 there is a markedly increased possibility of getting killed more easily since they are covering more area now.

    The increased population has been said to be the main reason the PvP activity has reached levels that were not seen in vanilla. The fact that large raids are holding areas and keeping the flight masters killed also means any organised counterattack will also require a large number to fight back. This is a definite problem that has been not been taken into account when they decided to increase the capacity of the server.

    A 40/60 ratio in a server with 3000 versus one with 15000 is a huge difference. The ratio may remain the same but the land mass they are playing on has not changed. This is why the dominant side can keep the smaller population pinned down with repeated deaths and graveyard camping.

    This has been pointed out over and over again on the forums with many admitting the problems the smaller faction face are very different from how it was in vanilla.

    Quoting @Jean-Luc_Picard from another thread

    Let's say that in both Vanilla and Classic, you have a 40% alliance / 60% horde repartition.

    In Vanilla, you had 3000 players per server, in Classic 15000.

    In Vanilla it was then 1200 allies vs 1800 hordies, a difference of 600 players.
    In Classic, it's 6000 allies vs 9000 hordies, a difference of 3000 players.

    Yes, the massive increase in server population makes things exponentially worse.


    The problem is also a self perpetuating belief that the Alliance has managed to convince themselves is that every server with the exception of two of the PvP servers are dominated by the Horde. Hence any player playing on the other servers is now thinking they are getting killed  and graveyard camped because their side is unable to fight back because of the overwhelming numbers. People lose hope and decide to leave or switch sides to Horde and this just makes the ratio worse for the Alliance.

    Social media and other methods of communication has increased exponentially since 2004 and players are no longer so isolated in a game. One of the reasons the Flamelash situation got so bad was because of the panic from the Reddit, Discord and other avenues that mobilized the transfer rapidly which would not have been possible before in vanilla.
    KyleranAxxarcheyaneNyctelios

  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 657
    They could have prevented this by just limiting the number of log ins per faction instead of server wide. If Alliance has no queue, and Horde has to wait 12 hours to get in, you're going to get automatic faction balancing as Horde leaves for less crowded servers and Alliance comes in looking for one without a queue. 


    Gdemami
  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 1,960
    kitarad said:
    Stizzled said:
    kitarad said:
    Stizzled said:
    While I am 100% convinced that blizzard is doing their best to milk the players on retail wtih server transfers, on classic they don't really have much choice, ergo the transfers are free. Unlike in retail where server identity is pointless (guilds being ranked world-wide or region-wide) for classic it is one of the main charms the game has.


    Aside for the alliance-dominated PVE servers and a couple other exceptions where alliance is more numerous or the two factions are balanced, the large majority of servers are red. 
    People love to post up that IronForge.pro link. I guess it is the best estimate we have at the moment. But, "Total Players: 320,000" should be enough to know the data is highly inaccurate. If a player hasn't shown up on Warcraft Logs then they aren't counted. Basically, this only shows the population numbers for raiders on each server.

    Even so, the majority of the servers in every region are at roughly a 40/60 split, which is about as balanced as any WoW server has ever been. Horde has always been the majority, there was no reason to expect it to be any different with Classic.

    It sucks for those few servers that are completely out of whack, but I'd say Blizzard has done as good a job as could have been expected when it comes to balance.

    People just like to whine and cry (not aimed at the OP or you, clueless).
    How about the fact that each server holds 5 times what vanilla did. Would that not make the situation and the ratio worse?
    Sure, if there was only 5x the amount of Horde, but that isn't the case except for a few servers (and a few servers with the opposite). The majority of servers, based on the limited data we have, are about as balanced as can realistically be hoped for.

    The numbers are higher, but the ratios remain the same.
    While the ratio may remain the same the surface area available on the various areas haven't been increased. While in the past when you played and an area held 100 people which could spread out and still find spots to hide out when that number increases to 500 there is a markedly increased possibility of getting killed more easily since they are covering more area now.

    The increased population has been said to be the main reason the PvP activity has reached levels that were not seen in vanilla. The fact that large raids are holding areas and keeping the flight masters killed also means any organised counterattack will also require a large number to fight back. This is a definite problem that has been not been taken into account when they decided to increase the capacity of the server.

    A 40/60 ratio in a server with 3000 versus one with 15000 is a huge difference. The ratio may remain the same but the land mass they are playing on has not changed. This is why the dominant side can keep the smaller population pinned down with repeated deaths and graveyard camping.

    This has been pointed out over and over again on the forums with many admitting the problems the smaller faction face are very different from how it was in vanilla.

    Quoting @Jean-Luc_Picard from another thread

    Let's say that in both Vanilla and Classic, you have a 40% alliance / 60% horde repartition.

    In Vanilla, you had 3000 players per server, in Classic 15000.

    In Vanilla it was then 1200 allies vs 1800 hordies, a difference of 600 players.
    In Classic, it's 6000 allies vs 9000 hordies, a difference of 3000 players.

    Yes, the massive increase in server population makes things exponentially worse.


    The problem is also a self perpetuating belief that the Alliance has managed to convince themselves is that every server with the exception of two of the PvP servers are dominated by the Horde. Hence any player playing on the other servers is now thinking they are getting killed  and graveyard camped because their side is unable to fight back because of the overwhelming numbers. People lose hope and decide to leave or switch sides to Horde and this just makes the ratio worse for the Alliance.

    Social media and other methods of communication has increased exponentially since 2004 and players are no longer so isolated in a game. One of the reasons the Flamelash situation got so bad was because of the panic from the Reddit, Discord and other avenues that mobilized the transfer rapidly which would not have been possible before in vanilla.
    You aren't wrong, but I don't believe that having five times the amount of completely unbalanced servers as we have now would have been any better.

    All the things you described would still be happening because for the PvP player there is nothing else to do. Instead of 100 Horde players picking on 50 Alliance in Searing Gorge on one server you'd have 20 picking on 10 across five servers. Either way those 50 Alliance players are outnumbered and not having a good time. They'd still be looking to jump ship to a better server.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,803
    Blizzard isn't even American anymore. Makes me glad I boycotted them nearly 2 months ago. The entire world is suffering from political overload.
    GdemamiKyleranAxxar

  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,815
    Never take the free transfer when blizz offers it.
  • skadadskadad Member UncommonPosts: 392
    Rhoklaw said:
    Blizzard isn't even American anymore. Makes me glad I boycotted them nearly 2 months ago. The entire world is suffering from political overload.
    and this matters how?
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,088
    Stizzled said:
     

    All the things you described would still be happening because for the PvP player there is nothing else to do. Instead of 100 Horde players picking on 50 Alliance in Searing Gorge on one server you'd have 20 picking on 10 across five servers. Either way those 50 Alliance players are outnumbered and not having a good time. They'd still be looking to jump ship to a better server.

    Nope, because you forget one important factor: landmass.
    With 5x the players, the dominating faction can practically camp all 48+ questing hubs.
    On those servers, you can't go to Gadgetzan or even Everlook without being ganked as soon as you land.
    When you had 5x less players, people could find hiding spots to progress. With the actual population, all those spots are camped.
    KyleranlahnmirAxxarNyctelios
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 35,418
    While I agree the higher player volumes are a significant factor, it appears gamers who favor PVP are even bigger douches these days then they were back in 2004.

    So much for the theory often expressed when Classic first launched that it brought about a return of a more mature, better class of MMORPG player.

    Same as it ever was apparently, and perhaps much worse.

    Humanity sux.

     :# 
    Rhoklaw

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,045
    Kyleran said:
    While I agree the higher player volumes are a significant factor, it appears gamers who favor PVP are even bigger douches these days then they were back in 2004.

    So much for the theory often expressed when Classic first launched that it brought about a return of a more mature, better class of MMORPG player.

    Same as it ever was apparently, and perhaps much worse.

    Humanity sux.

     :# 
    Same as it ever was for sure. The only difference is douchebaggery has a more defined blueprint. Pretend power has become a science.
    Kyleran
  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,308
    I'm pretty sure that didn't happen in Vanilla WoW, just saying.
    Kyleran
  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 1,960
    Stizzled said:
     

    All the things you described would still be happening because for the PvP player there is nothing else to do. Instead of 100 Horde players picking on 50 Alliance in Searing Gorge on one server you'd have 20 picking on 10 across five servers. Either way those 50 Alliance players are outnumbered and not having a good time. They'd still be looking to jump ship to a better server.

    Nope, because you forget one important factor: landmass.
    With 5x the players, the dominating faction can practically camp all 48+ questing hubs.
    On those servers, you can't go to Gadgetzan or even Everlook without being ganked as soon as you land.
    When you had 5x less players, people could find hiding spots to progress. With the actual population, all those spots are camped.
    I didn't forget landmass, I'm just being realistic about it. The entire world is not even close to relevant for any given level bracket. There's only ever 2 or 3 zones that matter to a leveling player. Currently, there are four zones where every high level player is funneled to because that is where the end game content is.

    WoW is not a sandbox. The idea that a player could run off to some less traveled pocket of the world and still progress is completely false. The game is old, the world is known and players know where to go to find each other.

    Again, I'm not saying that the increased server size isn't making the issue of faction imbalance worse. Simply pointing out that it would still be a thing with the original server sizes and people would still be complaining just as loudly as they are now.
  • AxxarAxxar Member UncommonPosts: 102
    Maybe Blizzard will consider opening Vanilla Realms some day.
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,718
    edited December 2019


    Are we having fun yet?



    Organised Alliance lead Horde to death.
    Post edited by cheyane on
    image
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,088
    Kyleran said:
    While I agree the higher player volumes are a significant factor, it appears gamers who favor PVP are even bigger douches these days then they were back in 2004.

    So much for the theory often expressed when Classic first launched that it brought about a return of a more mature, better class of MMORPG player.

    Same as it ever was apparently, and perhaps much worse.

    Humanity sux.

     :# 

    That's why I LOVE the poetic justice in what happened on that server.
    As I said, the horde douches reap what they sow, and that's excellent.
    Live application of "Karma can be a bitch" ;)
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • fyehu43fyehu43 Newbie CommonPosts: 33
    For those curious Flamelash is rebuilding slowly.
    KyleranNyctelios

    SHAMAN Raid Tank,    -    Rogue Raid Tank     -     I'm Livestreaming!!


    Expert in:


    1. Melee Hunter

    2. Elemental Shaman

    3. Priest Tank (yes, it's a thing)

Sign In or Register to comment.