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What is "Skill Based" Progression?

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  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member EpicPosts: 1,267
    I don't even know what "skill based system" is supposed to mean... outside of maybe a VR game.
    "System" being the entire advancement system as a package. 
    Not just how Skills can go up by using them (Skill Based Progression), because that can also be used in a Class Based "system" (instead of XP). 

    That made no sense to me. What is an "entire advancement system as a package"? Any way you look at it, leveling is through "xp". Games either use class based progression with levels that progress with xp, or skill based progression in which individual skills level as you use them (different form of xp). The exception being games like Eve which you buy skills and training is on a timer.

    I'm trying to think of a game that has class levels and a separate skills that levels as you use them (that isn't a crafting skill)... but I'm drawing a blank.
  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 5,071
    Man I miss 9Dragons.

    Octagon7711
  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,125
    Asheram said:
    Man I miss 9Dragons.


    Really? Not sarcasm right? I remember trying that in beta long ago and thought it was the most repetitive and annoying MMO I ever played. Same mobs, small maps, pay to advance, it was terrible. Of course I thought most MMOs of the time sucked wehn compared to SWG, even at it's worst. Glad someone liked it I guess.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    Skill based is like Skyrim when you put your character in a corner and put a weight on a hot key so he runs in a corner for hours on his own so he can max out running or have him stand in a fire and heal himself until he maxes out that healing skill and so forth and so on. :smiley:

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    Here's a question, one that I think probably has no solid answer to. But it's a good reference to this topic. 

    Take Skyrim, the SP game. That's a Skill Based game. And for anyone who thinks that Skill Based games aren't attractive, here's evidence that they are indeed very attractive. 

    But to the point that Skill Based and (Class) Level Based are actually the same thing, just broken down more, this is a great example. 
    Skyrim is similar to the MMORPGs that call themselves Skill Based, but seem to be very close to a Class Based game, because of the Skill Trees. 
    As a design adds more to it's "Tree", at what point does it actually become Class Based? 

    Does this reveal anything about EVE's system? Skill Based or Class Based? 

    Anemo's point (just above) about the ship being your class, that's interesting. I don't know what they do in that game, and curious to see what people say. 
    Quite honestly I don't see that much of a difference.

    Most mmorpg with class system use some sort of skill tree too.  And all the large budget game have quite complicated skill and combat system.

    I think it is more because everyone are forced in to meta build in those games.  Most class do have a few meta build but ultimately everyone is using the same few meta build for the class.


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    edited December 2019
    I don't even know what "skill based system" is supposed to mean... outside of maybe a VR game.
    "System" being the entire advancement system as a package. 
    Not just how Skills can go up by using them (Skill Based Progression), because that can also be used in a Class Based "system" (instead of XP). 

    That made no sense to me. What is an "entire advancement system as a package"? Any way you look at it, leveling is through "xp". Games either use class based progression with levels that progress with xp, or skill based progression in which individual skills level as you use them (different form of xp). The exception being games like Eve which you buy skills and training is on a timer.

    I'm trying to think of a game that has class levels and a separate skills that levels as you use them (that isn't a crafting skill)... but I'm drawing a blank.
    Err....WOW Classic?

    At least Vanilla WOW had them in the early days, in addition to classes/levels my Paladin had to level via usage specific weapon types such as maces, swords or axes as I recall.

    Did away with it at some point, not sure when.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 5,071
    Tiller said:
    Asheram said:
    Man I miss 9Dragons.


    Really? Not sarcasm right? I remember trying that in beta long ago and thought it was the most repetitive and annoying MMO I ever played. Same mobs, small maps, pay to advance, it was terrible. Of course I thought most MMOs of the time sucked wehn compared to SWG, even at it's worst. Glad someone liked it I guess.
    I enjoyed it for the time I played it though it was really grindy, you had to use skills to level them. I see its on steam with a new developer with some good and bad reviews, one says the same thing as you. Not sure I could get into it again at this point so probably just nostalgia on my part.
  • ultimateduckultimateduck Member EpicPosts: 1,267
    Kyleran said:
    I don't even know what "skill based system" is supposed to mean... outside of maybe a VR game.
    "System" being the entire advancement system as a package. 
    Not just how Skills can go up by using them (Skill Based Progression), because that can also be used in a Class Based "system" (instead of XP). 

    That made no sense to me. What is an "entire advancement system as a package"? Any way you look at it, leveling is through "xp". Games either use class based progression with levels that progress with xp, or skill based progression in which individual skills level as you use them (different form of xp). The exception being games like Eve which you buy skills and training is on a timer.

    I'm trying to think of a game that has class levels and a separate skills that levels as you use them (that isn't a crafting skill)... but I'm drawing a blank.
    Err....WOW Classic?

    At least Vanilla WOW had them in the early days, in addition to classes/levels my Paladin had to level via usage specific weapon types such as maces, swords or axes as I recall.

    Did away with it at some point, not sure when.

    I don't remember that. Is what you're describing similar to GW2s "skill based" system with weapons, because that isn't really skill based.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,610
    There are very few true skill based MMOs. SWG is such a game. Character progression is advanced by using your skills. That's it and nothing more. 
    AlBQuirky
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041
    Ryzom comes to mind. No classes, no character levels, just skill points you gain by advancing in certain fields (leveling up those instead of your character) which you can then put in trees to develop your character/skills further, even create your own actions. You can build a character that way and get enough points to diversify.

    I would not call something like this a skill based game though, I would call it a game with skill based progression, or an ability based system. Skill based systems, yes. A skill based game, no.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    AlBQuirky
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    Nanfoodle said:
    There are very few true skill based MMOs. SWG is such a game. Character progression is advanced by using your skills. That's it and nothing more. 
    Pre NGE you mean right?
    Nanfoodle

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    edited December 2019
    Kyleran said:
    I don't even know what "skill based system" is supposed to mean... outside of maybe a VR game.
    "System" being the entire advancement system as a package. 
    Not just how Skills can go up by using them (Skill Based Progression), because that can also be used in a Class Based "system" (instead of XP). 

    That made no sense to me. What is an "entire advancement system as a package"? Any way you look at it, leveling is through "xp". Games either use class based progression with levels that progress with xp, or skill based progression in which individual skills level as you use them (different form of xp). The exception being games like Eve which you buy skills and training is on a timer.

    I'm trying to think of a game that has class levels and a separate skills that levels as you use them (that isn't a crafting skill)... but I'm drawing a blank.
    Err....WOW Classic?

    At least Vanilla WOW had them in the early days, in addition to classes/levels my Paladin had to level via usage specific weapon types such as maces, swords or axes as I recall.

    Did away with it at some point, not sure when.

    I don't remember that. Is what you're describing similar to GW2s "skill based" system with weapons, because that isn't really skill based.
    I recall initially leveling 2 handed maces on my Paladin then after getting a sweet 2 handed sword when in the 40ish level range having to go back to Goldshire / Westfall to just wander around wacking low level mobs to level up my sword skills and get them caught up.

    Now that I think of it, didn't Vanguard have some sort of class/levels progression system but also skills which leveled up with use?




    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,122
    edited December 2019


    Were you generally agreeing with me and I was too confrontational to recognize it?
    No, I was disagreeing with what appeared to be your assumption that susceptibility to critique was inevitable simply due to the existence of it. It is not.

    I think that distinction was more important to me because we have extremely different views on how many genuinely care about the opinions of others.

    You believe the vast majority care about the opinions of others, where I believe those that do are minute in number and that apparent majority is simply one of lip service.

    Even those that do care won't be susceptible to the views of others if they strongly believe that their own is the best even if unwelcome.

    I don't believe criticism has much bearing on success. The reviews of professional critics are often at odds with public reception. The endless complaint in gaming forums are often discordant with the revenue those games bring in. The two seem weakly linked.
    lahnmirKyleran
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,122
    AlBQuirky said:

    Just curious, what PnP games did you play?

    D&D is by far the most popular system adapted by video games. That is a totally class based skills system. I'm trying to recall the other PnP games my group played back in the late 70s. Traveller, Champions, MERP (Middle Earth RPG), Space Opera, Star Trek were all systems we played. Most were based on which class you chose and skills were ruled by that choice, I think. I could be wrong as that was 40 years ago and my memory sucks :)
    AD&D 1st Ed, Tunnels and Trolls, Champions, Marvel Superheroes, and Call of Cthulhu (Chaosium) for the main titles. We dabbled in several other as well to a lesser degree.

    There was a wide range from class to skill based, with various advancement methods including level based, skill based, and point buy systems.

    I still own Bunnies and Burrows, but we never got around to playing that one.
    AlBQuirky
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,749
    edited December 2019
    Po_gg said:
    A true skill-based system don't have classes, but from the other way around it ain't necessarily the case, a classless design can be skill-based, but can be something else too.
    Like Eve and TSW (where you can/could get all the skills after playing long enough, bu you just picked them and not raised them through usage),
    or like CO (where you can pick from all the skills in the game and thus build your very own class as you want).

    And the presence of classes doesn't exclude skill-based progression by default either, though maybe those are the rarest breed and to be honest I couldn't cite any examples beyond a few MUDs from the mid-'90s...  where you pick a class at the character creation, and after that you build up your character through skill-based progression, just that class selection at start filters the available skills you can progress into.

    Yeh. But again, isn't "Skill Based System" a different thing than "Skill Based Progression"? 
    Terms are a hard thing to define.
    In those examples/exceptions I meant it by your definition.

    -Classless doesn't necessarily skill based progression:
    Eve and time-based progression: you pick a skill, and after a while you get it. You don't need to use the skill to raise it or anything, you don't even have to be in the game. You set it, says 3 days, you log off and log back 3 days later, skill is yours.
    TSW: classless, you earn xp and after every set amount of xp you get points which you can spend on skills. Some costs 1 point, the better one costs more. You don't need to use the skill to progress it, you earn the xp any way you prefer.
    CO: classless, but with levels and level cap (unlike TSW was). As you level up, at set levels you can pick a skill from all the skills available (with some limitations, set by your previous selection). At the cap, you can say you have your own "class". Naturally you don't advance those skills by usage, just "get" them at levels, and can rank them up by advancement points.

    -Class doesn't exclude skill based progression:
    The MUD I mentioned, that was skill progression, with classes. Every time you used a skill it advanced very slowly, and with filters based on your selected class (and profession). Example:
    everyone could skin for a quick campfire meal in the wild. It raised slowly to the point where at the cap it provided a basic pelt, besides the meat for the fire.
    Except if you were a ranger or hunter, then that part raised more quickly, and at the skill cap it provided a lot more refined pelt. Same for any class who signed up as tailors.

    Basically anyone could use almost every skill and ability (there were some class restrictions), but they advanced at different speed, and the cap gave different ranks and benefits based on the class. As a hunter you never could be "really" good with a shield, for example, but you could use it on a modest efficiency if that was your character idea and put the work into it.
    AlBQuirkyKyleran
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    edited December 2019


    Were you generally agreeing with me and I was too confrontational to recognize it?
    No, I was disagreeing with what appeared to be your assumption that susceptibility to critique was inevitable simply due to the existence of it. It is not.

    I think that distinction was more important to me because we have extremely different views on how many genuinely care about the opinions of others.

    You believe the vast majority care about the opinions of others, where I believe those that do are minute in number and that apparent majority is simply one of lip service.

    Even those that do care won't be susceptible to the views of others if they strongly believe that their own is the best even if unwelcome.

    I don't believe criticism has much bearing on success. The reviews of professional critics are often at odds with public reception. The endless complaint in gaming forums are often discordant with the revenue those games bring in. The two seem weakly linked.
    Wait, this is bullshit. All art is subject to criticism. And the success of art is highly dependent on criticism. Gaming forums have nothing to do with it. If a shitload of people think that what you presented was awful (any type of art), it affects how many people want to experience it.

    Your scenario where you say,"Even those that do care won't be susceptible to the views of others if they strongly believe that their own is the best even if unwelcome," is absolutely bullshit. Those that don't care, don't care. Those that do care pay attention to criticism. Only idiots and gift givers walk in completely blind.

    You say: "The reviews of professional critics are often at odds with public reception." This is absurd. The reviews of professional critics are silly at best. This is your biggest strawman of all. Criticism doesn't only come from professionals. It often comes through word of mouth. Even ignoring that, those stupid numbers that get shown on metacritic affect sales, whether we think they should or not.

    There are exceptions to the rule, but generally, positive criticism is hugely important to a game's financial success.
    Gdemami
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,071
    I could be wrong, but I don't recall any developer using the term "Skill Based Game" in regards to a players individual skill. I've seen "Skill Based Character Progression" which was the more you used a skill, the better you get at this skill.

    Will Vendetta always feature realtime combat?

    Yes. Real-time "twitch" combat, and non-optional PvP are two fundamental hallmarks of Vendetta Online. They are not for everyone, and we accept that. However, we make an effort to keep our game viable for many different play styles. We simply avoid "absolutes", as we dislike the very unrealistic concepts of "absolute safety" or one player being "absolutely better" than another who just started.  [We] would rather have many shades of grey, many variations of "more" and "less" safe, and more or less skilled, to better reflect our universe's goal as more of a "real" place. This is much more difficult to achieve than the traditional absolutes that are found in most games (and especially MMOs), but we think it's a goal worthy of the extra headaches and design complexities.

    https://www.vendetta-online.com/h/faq_gameplay.html#realtime (emphasis mine)
    Kyleran

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    Kyleran said:
    I don't even know what "skill based system" is supposed to mean... outside of maybe a VR game.
    "System" being the entire advancement system as a package. 
    Not just how Skills can go up by using them (Skill Based Progression), because that can also be used in a Class Based "system" (instead of XP). 

    That made no sense to me. What is an "entire advancement system as a package"? Any way you look at it, leveling is through "xp". Games either use class based progression with levels that progress with xp, or skill based progression in which individual skills level as you use them (different form of xp). The exception being games like Eve which you buy skills and training is on a timer.

    I'm trying to think of a game that has class levels and a separate skills that levels as you use them (that isn't a crafting skill)... but I'm drawing a blank.
    Err....WOW Classic?

    At least Vanilla WOW had them in the early days, in addition to classes/levels my Paladin had to level via usage specific weapon types such as maces, swords or axes as I recall.

    Did away with it at some point, not sure when.

    I don't remember that. Is what you're describing similar to GW2s "skill based" system with weapons, because that isn't really skill based.
    It's just the skill point system used in UO.  Since there isn't a formal term to describe it, so he's just making up things as he goes.  

    It is kind of like the crafting system in GW2, where everytime you craft something, your crafting skill go up.  But instead of just crafting, UO have that system in everything like sword, mace, magic, etc.  
  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387
    To each of you, "skill based" can mean player skill, 
    but when talking about character advancement it is along the lines I talked about in my OP. 

    I had no idea that there might be a lot of gamers who didn't know this. But I guess I understand this issue now that I think about it. 
    lol this is a topic in its self.

    No skill base doesnt mean player skill. It means character has a set of chooseable abilities rather than a preset list of abilities.

    I remember people use to say this about Guild Wars 1, that it required more skill because people referred to it as skill based... lol. I tell ya. this mentality is why nowadays everybody consider any online multiplayer game to be a MMO, because Multiplayer and Online is in the acronym MMO.. lol

    Philosophy of MMO Game Design

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Well a PLAYER can progress his skill over time,just see any competitive shooter.I highly doubt there is ONE single FN player who could walk into Unrealtournament and not get owned,the skill level is VERY high,MUCH higher than FN for example and yes much higher than OW as well.

    What does skill based "progression" typically refer to?Well progressing your characters set of skills,like weapon skills or magic skills.The BAD game designs are those that have you put points into improving those skills.

    The good designs force you to actually USE those skills to improve them.So if you pick up a sword for the first time,your skill is so bad you'll likely miss a high level enemy 99.9% of the time.Same goes for magic casting,you do more heals your healing skill becomes better doing,you use more elemental magic that skill becomes better thereby doing more damage.
    Then a really good developer creates perks for improving thsoe skills and that can go in many directions and still should make sense,not just simple ideas like allot 2 points into Fire.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,122


    Were you generally agreeing with me and I was too confrontational to recognize it?
    No, I was disagreeing with what appeared to be your assumption that susceptibility to critique was inevitable simply due to the existence of it. It is not.

    I think that distinction was more important to me because we have extremely different views on how many genuinely care about the opinions of others.

    You believe the vast majority care about the opinions of others, where I believe those that do are minute in number and that apparent majority is simply one of lip service.

    Even those that do care won't be susceptible to the views of others if they strongly believe that their own is the best even if unwelcome.

    I don't believe criticism has much bearing on success. The reviews of professional critics are often at odds with public reception. The endless complaint in gaming forums are often discordant with the revenue those games bring in. The two seem weakly linked.
    Wait, this is bullshit. All art is subject to criticism. And the success of art is highly dependent on criticism. Gaming forums have nothing to do with it. If a shitload of people think that what you presented was awful (any type of art), it affects how many people want to experience it.

    Your scenario where you say,"Even those that do care won't be susceptible to the views of others if they strongly believe that their own is the best even if unwelcome," is absolutely bullshit. Those that don't care, don't care. Those that do care pay attention to criticism. Only idiots and gift givers walk in completely blind.

    You say: "The reviews of professional critics are often at odds with public reception." This is absurd. The reviews of professional critics are silly at best. This is your biggest strawman of all. Criticism doesn't only come from professionals. It often comes through word of mouth. Even ignoring that, those stupid numbers that get shown on metacritic affect sales, whether we think they should or not.

    There are exceptions to the rule, but generally, positive criticism is hugely important to a game's financial success.
    Yes, all art is subject to criticism. Your claim the success of art is highly dependent on criticism remains just that. Gaming forums are perfect examples of critique having little to no effect on those subject to it, which undermines your contention of the importance of it, which makes them relevant to the discussion at hand.

    Openness to critique does not equate to susceptibility to it. Even a developer that cares about critique will not be susceptible to it when they feel it invalid.

    Did I say that reviews come only from professional critics? I did not. I simply provided them as an example where critique has little affect on success, as it often differed from public reception, by which I mean the actual money spent. There are plenty of amateur reviews these days as well. Many of them are on par with those of professionals.

    Word of mouth at least has some value, provided it comes from those that have established their opinion caries some weight when it comes to what you may enjoy.

    Of course the numbers on metacritic affect sales. I expect we disagree on the extent they do so.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254


    Were you generally agreeing with me and I was too confrontational to recognize it?
    No, I was disagreeing with what appeared to be your assumption that susceptibility to critique was inevitable simply due to the existence of it. It is not.

    I think that distinction was more important to me because we have extremely different views on how many genuinely care about the opinions of others.

    You believe the vast majority care about the opinions of others, where I believe those that do are minute in number and that apparent majority is simply one of lip service.

    Even those that do care won't be susceptible to the views of others if they strongly believe that their own is the best even if unwelcome.

    I don't believe criticism has much bearing on success. The reviews of professional critics are often at odds with public reception. The endless complaint in gaming forums are often discordant with the revenue those games bring in. The two seem weakly linked.
    Wait, this is bullshit. All art is subject to criticism. And the success of art is highly dependent on criticism. Gaming forums have nothing to do with it. If a shitload of people think that what you presented was awful (any type of art), it affects how many people want to experience it.

    Your scenario where you say,"Even those that do care won't be susceptible to the views of others if they strongly believe that their own is the best even if unwelcome," is absolutely bullshit. Those that don't care, don't care. Those that do care pay attention to criticism. Only idiots and gift givers walk in completely blind.

    You say: "The reviews of professional critics are often at odds with public reception." This is absurd. The reviews of professional critics are silly at best. This is your biggest strawman of all. Criticism doesn't only come from professionals. It often comes through word of mouth. Even ignoring that, those stupid numbers that get shown on metacritic affect sales, whether we think they should or not.

    There are exceptions to the rule, but generally, positive criticism is hugely important to a game's financial success.
    Yes, all art is subject to criticism. Your claim the success of art is highly dependent on criticism remains just that. Gaming forums are perfect examples of critique having little to no effect on those subject to it, which undermines your contention of the importance of it, which makes them relevant to the discussion at hand.

    Openness to critique does not equate to susceptibility to it. Even a developer that cares about critique will not be susceptible to it when they feel it invalid.

    Did I say that reviews come only from professional critics? I did not. I simply provided them as an example where critique has little affect on success, as it often differed from public reception, by which I mean the actual money spent. There are plenty of amateur reviews these days as well. Many of them are on par with those of professionals.

    Word of mouth at least has some value, provided it comes from those that have established their opinion caries some weight when it comes to what you may enjoy.

    Of course the numbers on metacritic affect sales. I expect we disagree on the extent they do so.
    Meh. "Openness to critique does not equate to susceptibility to it." Just more bullshit. If a developer cares about critique, they are naturally susceptible to it. This distinction is a form of backpedaling by you because you realize what you said was silly.


    Gdemami
  • AmarantharAmaranthar Member EpicPosts: 5,785
    edited December 2019
    To each of you, "skill based" can mean player skill, 
    but when talking about character advancement it is along the lines I talked about in my OP. 

    I had no idea that there might be a lot of gamers who didn't know this. But I guess I understand this issue now that I think about it. 
    lol this is a topic in its self.

    No skill base doesnt mean player skill. It means character has a set of chooseable abilities rather than a preset list of abilities.

    I remember people use to say this about Guild Wars 1, that it required more skill because people referred to it as skill based... lol. I tell ya. this mentality is why nowadays everybody consider any online multiplayer game to be a MMO, because Multiplayer and Online is in the acronym MMO.. lol
    I know, lol. 
    But since so many gamers: 
    - never understood what the original term "Skill Based" meant, 
    - and never understood what it was, 
    - and games Producers have mixed and mashed so much together,
    what we got was a whole bunch of confusion. 
    Now we have to be more descriptive if we want anyone to understand us. 
    These days it takes a scholar to understand everything in MMORPG design. But I'm glad I made this post, and for all the discussion over it. 
    Gdemami

    Once upon a time....

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    edited December 2019
    To each of you, "skill based" can mean player skill, 
    but when talking about character advancement it is along the lines I talked about in my OP. 

    I had no idea that there might be a lot of gamers who didn't know this. But I guess I understand this issue now that I think about it. 
    lol this is a topic in its self.

    No skill base doesnt mean player skill. It means character has a set of chooseable abilities rather than a preset list of abilities.


    Does skill based really mean this?

    Others on this thread hold forth it requires the player's character to advance solely though the actual use of said skills.

    Meanwhile EVE uses a skill system based on time to which several have argued it's not really a skill based game, to which I disagree. 

    Yet others believe it refers to actual player skill in game rather than avatar skills

    It would appear most opinions are formed on what particular "skill based" MMORPG one first cut their teeth on, be it UO, EVE or GW1.


    Po_gg

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  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041
    Kyleran said:
    To each of you, "skill based" can mean player skill, 
    but when talking about character advancement it is along the lines I talked about in my OP. 

    I had no idea that there might be a lot of gamers who didn't know this. But I guess I understand this issue now that I think about it. 
    lol this is a topic in its self.

    No skill base doesnt mean player skill. It means character has a set of chooseable abilities rather than a preset list of abilities.


    Does skill based really mean this?

    Others on this thread hold forth it requires the player's character to advance solely though the actual use of said skills.

    Meanwhile EVE uses a skill system based on time to which several have argued it's not really a skill based game, to which I disagree. 

    Yet others believe it refers to actual player skill in game rather than avatar skills

    It would appear most opinions are formed on what particular "skill based" MMORPG one first cut their teeth on, be it UO, EVE or GW1.


    Skill based games are about player skill. Skill based systems (In games) are about a characters skills, it would help a great deal to differentiate between the two. The latter could better be called ability based or skillbased. They also aren’t related.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    PhaserlightAlBQuirky
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

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