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Will it continue

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  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 571
    edited November 2019

    That's not relaly true. I played EQ1 a lot. Heck I still do. I hate instancing to this day. I think we're all just different and expeirenced it differently. Give one person a flavor and thye like it, give it t oanother and they don't. That's life.

    Instancing puts the sandbox in social.
    I do have to say in Vanguard dungeons could be hectic and spoil your groups plans. 

    But to make venturing around in a group being instance would really suck. It could even change my willingness to play this game that I want so badly. 

    I want a modern EQ1
    I hope you know I meant to say Instancing removes the sandbox in social.

    I added more changes to my post. I comment about content congestion--which was a real problem in EQ1. Thinking back, I can rmember blackburrow being full so me and my friend went to qeynos catacombs and killed smugglers (this was back in early 1999). I also remember being on a waiting list because I didn't wnat to run halfway across the world to see if another place had room. So I feel instancing is easy and cheap, but it's not the only answer. In fact, at least in my case, being I like sandboxes in general, instancing is the worst. I LOVE bumping into people. And the fact there're some "toxic" people is something I've always been able to tolerate. I'd much rather have the toxic if it means I can keep the magic of spontaneous meetings.

    Remember I played through LDONs too. I know what instances are. I've played many MMORPGs. I just know I don't like them. And it's not like I've not played any non-instanced worlds and I"m just wearing rose tinted glasses. NO. I've went back to non-instnaced games and discover I still hate instancing, not the reverse. There're no rose tinted glasses. Where're those anyway, I'm always toled they exist somewhere but I never find them. What I see is through my own eyes.

    And I'll add one more thing. I remember in Diablo 2 when more players came to a server the difficulty and reward of killing monsters went up. It didn't create instances when they came. (And yes I realize it instanced the 6 person world, but within that context of the 6 person world, it did NOT instance.) This is just one tiny example, and not the best one, but content congestion can be addressed in many ways. It just so happens instances are probably the easiest and this is why so many MMORPGs went that direction. It's also possible instances are the friendliest for solo players and in general mimic single player expeirences, and lots of players like it that way.
  • jdnycjdnyc Member UncommonPosts: 1,633
    DMKano said:
    Vrika said:
    goldwheat said:
    Multiple employees of Visionary Realms have confirmed, in the past 48 hours on the official forums, that development of Pantheon will continue.
    At the moment we should be waiting for info on who's the owner and his statement about the future of the project. It's not the employees decision, they will continue as long as they're getting paid, it's decision of the company owner.

    Of course making any kind of decision will take some time.

    I can tell you 100% that they will continue working on it.

    The big question is - will they finish the game as originally envisioned - and this is always the biggest question for any game in development regardless of circumstances.

    Many games die in development
    I actually feel good about the project.  I trust in Chris Perkins.  That guy knows what he's doing and he's been at the creative helm for awhile now.  I don't think it's been clear how much involvement on the day to day operations Brad had been involved.
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 571
    edited November 2019
    And assuming Brad wanted some instancing in Pantheon, I"m not surprised. That aligns with what I heard from him in interviews. Brad was a complicated person, like the rest of us. Sometimes we chagne our views or change what we tolerate. Even if Brad had told themn to do cross server grouping, dungeons finders and instagroups, that can still all be compatible with Brad trying to preserve some of the old school MMORPG design--like interdependence and social world/community. Remember he was trying to make a MMORPG like this but with modern gamers as a potential audience. It's not like he can time travle to 1999 and play under those rules. Look around!!!!! MMORPGs are filled with instances, hand holding and all that jazz. Incorporating some of that into Pantheon is a no brainer and absolutely unsurprising.

    We're up against a very strong force right now that's basically making MMORPGs into Massive Single Player Online Roleplaying Games. Even a meager attempt to make players more interdependent and creating stronger community is hope for some of us who want something more like that.
    TwoTubes
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 1,115
    jdnyc said:
    DMKano said:
    Vrika said:
    goldwheat said:
    Multiple employees of Visionary Realms have confirmed, in the past 48 hours on the official forums, that development of Pantheon will continue.
    At the moment we should be waiting for info on who's the owner and his statement about the future of the project. It's not the employees decision, they will continue as long as they're getting paid, it's decision of the company owner.

    Of course making any kind of decision will take some time.

    I can tell you 100% that they will continue working on it.

    The big question is - will they finish the game as originally envisioned - and this is always the biggest question for any game in development regardless of circumstances.

    Many games die in development
    I actually feel good about the project.  I trust in Chris Perkins.  That guy knows what he's doing and he's been at the creative helm for awhile now.  I don't think it's been clear how much involvement on the day to day operations Brad had been involved.
    Brad left the helm to Chris long time ago.
    Chris has been there since Day One, and does share Brad vision.
    It seems like he knows what he Is doing.
    Let's Hope for the best.
    delete5230
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 1,909
    It'll be a blow to company morale for a while but I'd assume general workflow will continue unimpeded. As morbid as it may sound, this may be a time for other designers on the team to shine. Glass half full.
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,358
    edited November 2019
    Sovrath said:
    Arterius said:
    With him gone will the game and transform into something we don't want. 


    Or maybe it will be closer to what "we" (that's a big meatball right there) want.

    Remember, Brad was adding a type of instancing in the dungeons and there were people (is that "we?") who didn't want that.

    Maybe the people working on it will bring it closer to the original idea of an Everquest successor.


    Yeah, the absolute LAST thing this game needs is to replace Brad's original intent with "design by committee" crap.

    The man hasnt even been gone a week and you're already pissing on his grave.

    The "fans" fighting a civil war over what Pantheon features to keep and which to change would destroy the game and Brad's legacy.

    GdemamiKyleran
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,868
    IDK how much power Brad had on this game but there is a good chance this game gets pushed out before it is ready.
    Myself,the Eq franchise,including VG will be remembered as some of the buggiest work ever in mmorpg history.I am certain Brad wanted to make sure this Pantheon game was not released in the same state,but now....who knows.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    Xiaoki said:
    Sovrath said:
    Arterius said:
    With him gone will the game and transform into something we don't want. 


    Or maybe it will be closer to what "we" (that's a big meatball right there) want.

    Remember, Brad was adding a type of instancing in the dungeons and there were people (is that "we?") who didn't want that.

    Maybe the people working on it will bring it closer to the original idea of an Everquest successor.


    Yeah, the absolute LAST thing this game needs is to replace Brad's original intent with "design by committee" crap.

    The man hasnt even been gone a week and you're already pissing on his grave.

    The "fans" fighting a civil war over what Pantheon features to keep and which to change would destroy the game and Brad's legacy.

    I have to agree with @Sovrath
    People were expecting Everquest 1, this being an assumption ?..... yes !

    "Open world everything" was the assumption, infact I think that was Brads idea in the beginning too. I can't speak for everyone but this was the attraction (traditional).



  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 571
    edited November 2019
    Delete, people may have thought that, but if you listened to Brad and the information coming from the team, you get a different picture.

    This was one of the earliest videos with Brad about Pantheon I watched it a long time ago, probably in 2016:

    Notice how Brad is always downplaying Boogie's statements about EQ1. "Oh yes I remember! it won't be quite that bad..." In later videos and in other sources it's obvious they weren't trying to emulate Everquest 1 to 1. I never got that impression. This is why I'm not surprised Brad was considering some form of instancing. I'm willing to accept that, given I think Brad was still trying to capture its spirit. He was still trying to preserve the player interdependence and strong community many of us believe was better represented in older MMORPGs.

    Going deeper and to a darker place, I've seen things in the past too that aren't trying to preserve something, like Brad was. I've seen so many MMORPGs staunchly oppose mainstream for a while but then bend over backwards to appeal to it when finances get tight. It's very hard for an MMO or MMORPG to stay in one position. They almost all eventually surrender to the pressure of the mainstream by removing or adding bits and pieces over the years. One of the worst examples in my opinion was Anarchy Online. Ironically, it started with group/solo instanced missions. This was back in 2000 or 2001, before instancing was everywhere. But because of the success of Everquest, it started adding more non-instanced open world group-based encoutners with a greater emphasis on fantasy. It culminated with the Shadowlands expansion. Notice how this sci-fi mmo with strong instancing suddenly turns 180 and does the opposite because a competitor is having great success? It has the gall to say it did this all on its own even though it's constantly using EQ as an example and behind the scenes team members know what's going on. It's even more illuminating when you see how instancing later became extremely popular. Many companies, and I mean MANY, they simply copy/paste what's having success. This is by no means simple, but there's very little originality going on. And it's soulless. Heartless. It's business. It cares about itself. This is why I don't have any trust in MMORPGs staying true to themselves, unless and only if they're essentially non-profit or donation based. And maybe ther'es one other possibliity: they're NEW. They're amateurs. They're not "assimilated" yet.  I hate to have this attitude, but when something happens repeatedly, it can't be denied anymore.

    The part that stands out to me:
    Brad: "It really is a virtual world. It's not a game, or it's more than a game."
    Boogie: "That's what set Everquest aside for me, and I believe Vanguard for other people. And what I hope Pantheon will set aside. When you play Star Wars The Old Republic, when you play World of Warcraft, these're amazing games, these're amazing games, but it's such a game. Everquest, and I'm hoping Pantheon, will be a social experiment on top of that. When you loook at games like Dayz and Rust, and these survival genres. Dayz, at its core is not a fun game, like it's a zombie survival game but there's no zombies in it. It's the social experience, and that's what made Dayz famous. If you guys can capture that again, you can have all my money."

    I like survival genre. Because of the danger. But I tihnk in an MMO it does push you to meet other people out of necessity. I don't wnat to speculate too much about it, but I think there's something here.

    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
    delete5230
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    @Hawkaya399
    Thanks for the write up and unraveling the myths many of us still have.

    With recent announcements of instancing and the feeling I had all along with the slow take-your-time-combat how will that work with a screen full of other players.

    I'm beginning to think of how Guildwars 1 worked (its been years), but the basic idea is once you or your group leave town your instanced.  I'm not sure if that's the same idea or not, but my understanding at this time is yes until enlightened more.

    As I recall, I personally didn't like it because it was shocking how it didn't play like other mmorpgs I played at the time.  Infact l'm searching my house for my old GW1 disc. 



    I and I'm sure MANY others assumed "an open world life" bast off Everquest and Vanguard so it was easy to assume that.

    If Pantheon is based like GW1, will it fill the void MANY here assumed ?... We all have our criteria.  For me "yes" for still being group based, "no" for Immersive.   

    Honestly I've been switching gears to Saga of Lucima, it's actually more of what I'm looking for. I know a LOT just can't say. 
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