The Unity team themselves work along side this dev team. This has been talked about before.
The teaser trailer is just that. It was meant to show something quick for a live stream. The 1st part is the visual engine updates and not much more is required. The second part was meant to be obscure because it hides a very important detail: a 20 man raid. The number of players seen is well over the usual party size. It was meant to be cryptic.
Isn't it a bit embarrassing at times how easy it is to call out "misconceptions" backers have about their favorite indie games using only the Dev team's own published words as evidence?
Oh, another developer!?
...that's great about lack of self-awareness and critical thinking - you always find "misconceptions" to call out with plenty of evidence at hand.
Isn't it a bit embarrassing at times how easy it is to call out "misconceptions" backers have about their favorite indie games using only the Dev team's own published words as evidence?
Well, it’s also easy to found out ‘detractors’ misconceptions, based on outdated info. That’s taken from Mcquaid Blog:
”Unity has been fantastic. It allowed us to start with virtually nothing -- we could download art assets, we could use built in code like UI, gameplay, network, shaders, etc. But then as we have grown, we have been able to test and use other libraries and functionality, many geared more for MMOs. Then, even more recently, we've begun to replace shaders with our own code, stock assets with our own assets, developing a solid content creation pipeline that incorporates popular and professional tools as well as in-house Pantheon-specific tools, and more. I have personally chatted with various people at Unity including the CEO and their goal, now that they feel they have the top engine for smaller teams and projects, is to compete directly with the higher end engines often used by AAA teams and at larger companies. To that end, Pantheon is very important to them because it's an MMO. I don’t know of any other genre that pushes every aspect of game development like MMOs do.
With MMOs, networking code and support (and speed and efficiency) is paramount. At this point we are using code that is plenty robust enough to take us into alpha and probably beyond. That said, we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
I can’t believe, there are still people who read FAQs to get all of their info.
One thing I learned in my experience is that FAQs of Indie games are always outdated information and these are the last things developer update when creating a game.
As I said VR was working closely with Unity engineers because Unity lacked a decent Netcode and were interested in improving the Engine, and the work VR did on Unity was of great interest to them.
So if next Unity update will have an improved Netcode, part of the merit goes to VR and their work on it.
See, a reason why I am still interested in Pantheon and I am willing to wait for it, is because unlike ‘lazy Lord British’ they actually understood Unity limitations and tried to do something about. SOTA works on a stock version of Unity, and we all can see the (bad) results. Pantheon Engine has the underline architecture of Unity but it’s like its own thing, good or bad, time will tell.
Isn't it a bit embarrassing at times how easy it is to call out "misconceptions" backers have about their favorite indie games using only the Dev team's own published words as evidence?
Well, it’s also easy to found out ‘detractors’ misconceptions, based on outdated info. That’s taken from Mcquaid Blog:
”Unity has been fantastic. It allowed us to start with virtually nothing -- we could download art assets, we could use built in code like UI, gameplay, network, shaders, etc. But then as we have grown, we have been able to test and use other libraries and functionality, many geared more for MMOs. Then, even more recently, we've begun to replace shaders with our own code, stock assets with our own assets, developing a solid content creation pipeline that incorporates popular and professional tools as well as in-house Pantheon-specific tools, and more. I have personally chatted with various people at Unity including the CEO and their goal, now that they feel they have the top engine for smaller teams and projects, is to compete directly with the higher end engines often used by AAA teams and at larger companies. To that end, Pantheon is very important to them because it's an MMO. I don’t know of any other genre that pushes every aspect of game development like MMOs do.
With MMOs, networking code and support (and speed and efficiency) is paramount. At this point we are using code that is plenty robust enough to take us into alpha and probably beyond. That said, we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
I can’t believe, there are still people who read FAQs to get all of their info.
One thing I learned in my experience is that FAQs of Indie games are always outdated information and these are the last things developer update when creating a game.
All I said was that I found it interesting that they said they spent years modifying the engine that they specifically said they chose because they would NOT have to spend their time modifying it. Sorry if you find that personally offensive in some way...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As I said VR was working closely with Unity engineers because Unity lacked a decent Netcode and were interested in improving the Engine, and the work VR did on Unity was of great interest to them.
So if next Unity update will have an improved Netcode, part of the merit goes to VR and their work on it.
See, a reason why I am still interested in Pantheon and I am willing to wait for it, is because unlike ‘lazy Lord British’ they actually understood Unity limitations and tried to do something about. SOTA works on a stock version of Unity, and we all can see the (bad) results. Pantheon Engine has the underline architecture of Unity but it’s like its own thing, good or bad, time will tell.
Having a chat with several folks at Unity is not the same at all as working closely with them.
Read what you posted, Pantheon team is not writing their own net code, at least not yet.
"That said, we are also 'considering' our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
So then...they cannot yet support regions with large numbers of players, not until either they or Unity modify the net code.
They may even have to write their own tech, but haven't done so yet.
Finally, Brad said what they have currently will take them to alpha and "probably" beyond....to beta maybe....but certainly not to final release without considerable work needing to be done or he would have said so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The Unity team themselves work along side this dev team. This has been talked about before.
The teaser trailer is just that. It was meant to show something quick for a live stream. The 1st part is the visual engine updates and not much more is required. The second part was meant to be obscure because it hides a very important detail: a 20 man raid. The number of players seen is well over the usual party size. It was meant to be cryptic.
Where has it been said they are working "closely" with the Unity team? In Brad's quoted blogs above he mentions having several chats with them, doesn't mean the same thing as the actual coders of each company sitting down regulatly to have design sessions.
In fact, in his blog he even says they haven't begun modifying the net layer, they might one day, in fact he even says they or someone will have to in order to support the number of players they are shooting for.
I feel you are definitely reading way too much into the teaser, 20 man raid, please...if so then I'll project further and say they cut it short so everyone wouldn't see how janky and unoptimized the game play is if every character actually moved.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Isn't it a bit embarrassing at times how easy it is to call out "misconceptions" backers have about their favorite indie games using only the Dev team's own published words as evidence?
Well, it’s also easy to found out ‘detractors’ misconceptions, based on outdated info. That’s taken from Mcquaid Blog:
”Unity has been fantastic. It allowed us to start with virtually nothing -- we could download art assets, we could use built in code like UI, gameplay, network, shaders, etc. But then as we have grown, we have been able to test and use other libraries and functionality, many geared more for MMOs. Then, even more recently, we've begun to replace shaders with our own code, stock assets with our own assets, developing a solid content creation pipeline that incorporates popular and professional tools as well as in-house Pantheon-specific tools, and more. I have personally chatted with various people at Unity including the CEO and their goal, now that they feel they have the top engine for smaller teams and projects, is to compete directly with the higher end engines often used by AAA teams and at larger companies. To that end, Pantheon is very important to them because it's an MMO. I don’t know of any other genre that pushes every aspect of game development like MMOs do.
With MMOs, networking code and support (and speed and efficiency) is paramount. At this point we are using code that is plenty robust enough to take us into alpha and probably beyond. That said, we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
I can’t believe, there are still people who read FAQs to get all of their info.
One thing I learned in my experience is that FAQs of Indie games are always outdated information and these are the last things developer update when creating a game.
One thing I've learned is even when Developers clearly state what they mean in bold faced type, backers misinterpret it completely into meaning something else.
This statement can't be any more clear on the point they are using someone else's net code at present
"we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Solid content creation...pipeline" This is a vague statements, an EXTREMELY vague statement. What has the term "content" in mmorpg's so far actually meant?
Well outside of FFXI and why i loved FFXI so much ,it has meant linear crappy quests with a npc standing there with a marker over it's head and instance loot dungeons.
IMO NEITHER idea is content,those are cheap baiting gimmicks that attract non mmorpg gamer's because they just like to have their hand held and told where to go what to do and the rest only play rpg's for loot.An mmorpg experience should be YOUR own experience,otherwise it is NOT a MMO,it is a single player design.
A true mmorpg gamer wants a world,interaction and immersion and although so far we have not seen it,possibly some realism like what survival games give us,food,water,sailing,housing,survival tools,building tools etc etc.
That copy pasted post says a lot more than likely most realize.It basically says the team from day 1 were looking to cut a LOT of corners,we were going to get a VERY weak game.So ..NOW over time,they added some of their own "shaders"does it mean much to us,no it does not,some of their own assets,sure that means a lot but no more than games already doing this from day 1.
It feels like the more people post it makes the game look less likely to be of HQ.I guess the positive side of it is we are getting a lot of truth and less bull shit marketing like most developer studios are doing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Isn't it a bit embarrassing at times how easy it is to call out "misconceptions" backers have about their favorite indie games using only the Dev team's own published words as evidence?
Well, it’s also easy to found out ‘detractors’ misconceptions, based on outdated info. That’s taken from Mcquaid Blog:
”Unity has been fantastic. It allowed us to start with virtually nothing -- we could download art assets, we could use built in code like UI, gameplay, network, shaders, etc. But then as we have grown, we have been able to test and use other libraries and functionality, many geared more for MMOs. Then, even more recently, we've begun to replace shaders with our own code, stock assets with our own assets, developing a solid content creation pipeline that incorporates popular and professional tools as well as in-house Pantheon-specific tools, and more. I have personally chatted with various people at Unity including the CEO and their goal, now that they feel they have the top engine for smaller teams and projects, is to compete directly with the higher end engines often used by AAA teams and at larger companies. To that end, Pantheon is very important to them because it's an MMO. I don’t know of any other genre that pushes every aspect of game development like MMOs do.
With MMOs, networking code and support (and speed and efficiency) is paramount. At this point we are using code that is plenty robust enough to take us into alpha and probably beyond. That said, we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
I can’t believe, there are still people who read FAQs to get all of their info.
One thing I learned in my experience is that FAQs of Indie games are always outdated information and these are the last things developer update when creating a game.
All I said was that I found it interesting that they said they spent years modifying the engine that they specifically said they chose because they would NOT have to spend their time modifying it. Sorry if you find that personally offensive in some way...
I quoted Kyleran not you, it’s not me being over sensitive here. But as you should know usually FAQs in most of the games in production are outdated, you should know that.
The Unity team themselves work along side this dev team. This has been talked about before.
The teaser trailer is just that. It was meant to show something quick for a live stream. The 1st part is the visual engine updates and not much more is required. The second part was meant to be obscure because it hides a very important detail: a 20 man raid. The number of players seen is well over the usual party size. It was meant to be cryptic.
Where has it been said they are working "closely" with the Unity team? In Brad's quoted blogs above he mentions having several chats with them, doesn't mean the same thing as the actual coders of each company sitting down regulatly to have design sessions.
In fact, in his blog he even says they haven't begun modifying the net layer, they might one day, in fact he even says they or someone will have to in order to support the number of players they are shooting for.
I feel you are definitely reading way too much into the teaser, 20 man raid, please...if so then I'll project further and say they cut it short so everyone wouldn't see how janky and unoptimized the game play is if every character actually moved.
See how that works?
Brad said they are working with a modified Unity Netcode but they are also considering writing their own code from scratch, that’s what he said.
I am not reading anything special from the teaser, I am just pointing out that VR is actually working hard on coding the Unity Engine and possibly some proprietary stuff as well.
Most people just assume they are just resting on the laurels, which is not the case, I just point out that. That’s all.
Isn't it a bit embarrassing at times how easy it is to call out "misconceptions" backers have about their favorite indie games using only the Dev team's own published words as evidence?
Well, it’s also easy to found out ‘detractors’ misconceptions, based on outdated info. That’s taken from Mcquaid Blog:
”Unity has been fantastic. It allowed us to start with virtually nothing -- we could download art assets, we could use built in code like UI, gameplay, network, shaders, etc. But then as we have grown, we have been able to test and use other libraries and functionality, many geared more for MMOs. Then, even more recently, we've begun to replace shaders with our own code, stock assets with our own assets, developing a solid content creation pipeline that incorporates popular and professional tools as well as in-house Pantheon-specific tools, and more. I have personally chatted with various people at Unity including the CEO and their goal, now that they feel they have the top engine for smaller teams and projects, is to compete directly with the higher end engines often used by AAA teams and at larger companies. To that end, Pantheon is very important to them because it's an MMO. I don’t know of any other genre that pushes every aspect of game development like MMOs do.
With MMOs, networking code and support (and speed and efficiency) is paramount. At this point we are using code that is plenty robust enough to take us into alpha and probably beyond. That said, we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
I can’t believe, there are still people who read FAQs to get all of their info.
One thing I learned in my experience is that FAQs of Indie games are always outdated information and these are the last things developer update when creating a game.
All I said was that I found it interesting that they said they spent years modifying the engine that they specifically said they chose because they would NOT have to spend their time modifying it. Sorry if you find that personally offensive in some way...
I quoted Kyleran not you, it’s not me being over sensitive here. But as you should know usually FAQs in most of the games in production are outdated, you should know that.
So you are trying to say that they did NOT select unity because they wouldn’t have to modify it? I’m honestly confused about what you are trying to prove?
That they over-estimated what Unity could do and now find themselves heavily modifying what they said they wouldn’t need to?
Or that the FAQ is a lie and that they always intended to heavily modify the engine despite saying otherwise?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Isn't it a bit embarrassing at times how easy it is to call out "misconceptions" backers have about their favorite indie games using only the Dev team's own published words as evidence?
Well, it’s also easy to found out ‘detractors’ misconceptions, based on outdated info. That’s taken from Mcquaid Blog:
”Unity has been fantastic. It allowed us to start with virtually nothing -- we could download art assets, we could use built in code like UI, gameplay, network, shaders, etc. But then as we have grown, we have been able to test and use other libraries and functionality, many geared more for MMOs. Then, even more recently, we've begun to replace shaders with our own code, stock assets with our own assets, developing a solid content creation pipeline that incorporates popular and professional tools as well as in-house Pantheon-specific tools, and more. I have personally chatted with various people at Unity including the CEO and their goal, now that they feel they have the top engine for smaller teams and projects, is to compete directly with the higher end engines often used by AAA teams and at larger companies. To that end, Pantheon is very important to them because it's an MMO. I don’t know of any other genre that pushes every aspect of game development like MMOs do.
With MMOs, networking code and support (and speed and efficiency) is paramount. At this point we are using code that is plenty robust enough to take us into alpha and probably beyond. That said, we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
I can’t believe, there are still people who read FAQs to get all of their info.
One thing I learned in my experience is that FAQs of Indie games are always outdated information and these are the last things developer update when creating a game.
All I said was that I found it interesting that they said they spent years modifying the engine that they specifically said they chose because they would NOT have to spend their time modifying it. Sorry if you find that personally offensive in some way...
I quoted Kyleran not you, it’s not me being over sensitive here. But as you should know usually FAQs in most of the games in production are outdated, you should know that.
So you are trying to say that they did NOT select unity because they wouldn’t have to modify it? I’m honestly confused about what you are trying to prove?
That they over-estimated what Unity could do and now find themselves heavily modifying what they said they wouldn’t need to?
Or that the FAQ is a lie and that they always intended to heavily modify the engine despite saying otherwise?
Why don’t you read what Brad said instead putting word in my mouth? He chose the engine because at the beginning they were just a handful of them but then as the team got bigger they decided to fork the code as the engine wasn’t suited to their need.
All I am saying is that they are using an heavily modified engine, that’s all. Why you are getting so worked up by this statement is beyond me.
Are you saying they are using the stock version of the engine? Because that’s not the case, I am arguing only that.
Isn't it a bit embarrassing at times how easy it is to call out "misconceptions" backers have about their favorite indie games using only the Dev team's own published words as evidence?
All I said was that I found it interesting that they said they spent years modifying the engine that they specifically said they chose because they would NOT have to spend their time modifying it. Sorry if you find that personally offensive in some way...
I quoted Kyleran not you, it’s not me being over sensitive here. But as you should know usually FAQs in most of the games in production are outdated, you should know that.
So you are trying to say that they did NOT select unity because they wouldn’t have to modify it? I’m honestly confused about what you are trying to prove?
That they over-estimated what Unity could do and now find themselves heavily modifying what they said they wouldn’t need to?
Or that the FAQ is a lie and that they always intended to heavily modify the engine despite saying otherwise?
Why don’t you read what Brad said instead putting word in my mouth? He chose the engine because at the beginning they were just a handful of them but then as the team got bigger they decided to fork the code as the engine wasn’t suited to their need.
All I am saying is that they are using an heavily modified engine, that’s all. Why you are getting so worked up by this statement is beyond me.
Are you saying they are using the stock version of the engine? Because that’s not the case, I am arguing only that.
Why don't YOU go read what Brad said and stop posting factually incorrect stuff? There was NO FORK, as stated in the very blog you referenced:
And this is key: normally, doing both would be a real headache - in my last project we had to eventually stop incorporating the latest engine updates and fork the code completely, taking the source code and heading off into the best direction possible for the game we were making. In fact, we did this with EQ as well – in that case the engine company was small and eventually shut down. So we had to grab all of the code, hire one of the engineers that worked on the original engine, and create one of the first MMO engines ever even though we were already well into development. That wasn’t easy – it paid off, but it took resources and time.
This has NOT happened with Unity. We've been able to upgrade to their more recent versions, often with not a lot of work involved.
I bolded the important parts to make it easy for you to understand. So there was NO FORK, they did NOT change the netcode (although they "might" someday). Somehow you read the same blog I did, and got out of it that they replaced the netcode (wrong) and that they forked the code (which they explicitly state they did not). Please stop posting factually incorrect statements, and if you DO have a source that counter-acts Brad's own words please cite it because all you are currently doing is causing confusion.
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I really want this game to come out faster but I don't feel like I agree with a lot of the opinions here. They've shown a good amount of gameplay in several dungeons and the open world, and they've given us a look at the environmental system and the quest system so far, which are two of the big ones for this game. Yes, it's progressing slowly, but I feel like we're getting good updates.
My understanding though was they entered a kick starter campaign that failed in no small part due to a lack of actual game development they could show people.
So they selected Unity due to 1, cost, and 2, the ability to use prefabricated game assets.
That led them to work hard on building a game world as fast as possible using such assets.
Then later, they didn't like a lot of what they had done, and basically started over.
And now I have no idea at all what they are doing vis-a-vis Unity, other than that's their engine.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Its not about the engine, its all about the imagination and efforts a development team puts in.
Hasn't been a lot of evidence so far of imagination or effort, mostly just a lot of words and talk.
Sadly, talking about amazing features and astonishing features is what is working. It is far easier to spout words describing a game than to build an actual game. That's probably why we have a lot fewer games than we should. Developers are spending too much time, money, and effort on building a web site to promote a game that won't be around for years. I'd suggest that this is a case where priorities are backwards on both sides of the developer-consumer equation.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Just make a Project Gorgon with better gfx and they would be set.
They should have matched their ambition to the reach of an indie company, and that would have resulted in a nice game. But instead they are just as ambitious as a AAA funded game, minus the AAA funding.
One day I fear that Brad will be blogging about what went wrong with Pantheon, and the first sentence of that blog will be "We tried to do too much."
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Just make a Project Gorgon with better gfx and they would be set.
They should have matched their ambition to the reach of an indie company, and that would have resulted in a nice game. But instead they are just as ambitious as a AAA funded game, minus the AAA funding.
One day I fear that Brad will be blogging about what went wrong with Pantheon, and the first sentence of that blog will be "We tried to do too much."
And my fear is none of it will be done well, even if they do manage to do everything they want. I'd rather a game launch with half the planned feature sets if they are all masterfully executed. You can always release more down the line (and btw charge for them via expansions that help fund it) but trying to fit 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound bag never works, something always suffers.
Comments
The teaser trailer is just that. It was meant to show something quick for a live stream. The 1st part is the visual engine updates and not much more is required. The second part was meant to be obscure because it hides a very important detail: a 20 man raid. The number of players seen is well over the usual party size. It was meant to be cryptic.
You stay sassy!
...that's great about lack of self-awareness and critical thinking - you always find "misconceptions" to call out with plenty of evidence at hand.
That’s taken from Mcquaid Blog:
”Unity has been fantastic. It allowed us to start with virtually nothing -- we could download art assets, we could use built in code like UI, gameplay, network, shaders, etc. But then as we have grown, we have been able to test and use other libraries and functionality, many geared more for MMOs. Then, even more recently, we've begun to replace shaders with our own code, stock assets with our own assets, developing a solid content creation pipeline that incorporates popular and professional tools as well as in-house Pantheon-specific tools, and more. I have personally chatted with various people at Unity including the CEO and their goal, now that they feel they have the top engine for smaller teams and projects, is to compete directly with the higher end engines often used by AAA teams and at larger companies. To that end, Pantheon is very important to them because it's an MMO. I don’t know of any other genre that pushes every aspect of game development like MMOs do.
With MMOs, networking code and support (and speed and efficiency) is paramount. At this point we are using code that is plenty robust enough to take us into alpha and probably beyond. That said, we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
I can’t believe, there are still people who read FAQs to get all of their info.
One thing I learned in my experience is that FAQs of Indie games are always outdated information and these are the last things developer update when creating a game.
So if next Unity update will have an improved Netcode, part of the merit goes to VR and their work on it.
See, a reason why I am still interested in Pantheon and I am willing to wait for it, is because unlike ‘lazy Lord British’ they actually understood Unity limitations and tried to do something about.
SOTA works on a stock version of Unity, and we all can see the (bad) results.
Pantheon Engine has the underline architecture of Unity but it’s like its own thing, good or bad, time will tell.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Read what you posted, Pantheon team is not writing their own net code, at least not yet.
"That said, we are also 'considering' our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently and to give us the control we need to create both vast regions with hundreds or thousands of players and NPCs, as well as smaller areas packed with gamers perhaps doing a raid (or some other get-together). What’s key is we have options – modify what we’re using now, take advantage of tech that appears in the future, or even write most or all of our own tech.”
So then...they cannot yet support regions with large numbers of players, not until either they or Unity modify the net code.
They may even have to write their own tech, but haven't done so yet.
Finally, Brad said what they have currently will take them to alpha and "probably" beyond....to beta maybe....but certainly not to final release without considerable work needing to be done or he would have said so.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In fact, in his blog he even says they haven't begun modifying the net layer, they might one day, in fact he even says they or someone will have to in order to support the number of players they are shooting for.
I feel you are definitely reading way too much into the teaser, 20 man raid, please...if so then I'll project further and say they cut it short so everyone wouldn't see how janky and unoptimized the game play is if every character actually moved.
See how that works?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This statement can't be any more clear on the point they are using someone else's net code at present
"we are also considering our own network layer to make things run even more efficiently"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Will this experimenting add 10 more years to development time?..... I was only expecting a game.
This is a vague statements, an EXTREMELY vague statement.
What has the term "content" in mmorpg's so far actually meant?
Well outside of FFXI and why i loved FFXI so much ,it has meant linear crappy quests with a npc standing there with a marker over it's head and instance loot dungeons.
IMO NEITHER idea is content,those are cheap baiting gimmicks that attract non mmorpg gamer's because they just like to have their hand held and told where to go what to do and the rest only play rpg's for loot.An mmorpg experience should be YOUR own experience,otherwise it is NOT a MMO,it is a single player design.
A true mmorpg gamer wants a world,interaction and immersion and although so far we have not seen it,possibly some realism like what survival games give us,food,water,sailing,housing,survival tools,building tools etc etc.
That copy pasted post says a lot more than likely most realize.It basically says the team from day 1 were looking to cut a LOT of corners,we were going to get a VERY weak game.So ..NOW over time,they added some of their own "shaders"does it mean much to us,no it does not,some of their own assets,sure that means a lot but no more than games already doing this from day 1.
It feels like the more people post it makes the game look less likely to be of HQ.I guess the positive side of it is we are getting a lot of truth and less bull shit marketing like most developer studios are doing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
But as you should know usually FAQs in most of the games in production are outdated, you should know that.
I am not reading anything special from the teaser, I am just pointing out that VR is actually working hard on coding the Unity Engine and possibly some proprietary stuff as well.
Most people just assume they are just resting on the laurels, which is not the case, I just point out that.
That’s all.
That they over-estimated what Unity could do and now find themselves heavily modifying what they said they wouldn’t need to?
Or that the FAQ is a lie and that they always intended to heavily modify the engine despite saying otherwise?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
He chose the engine because at the beginning they were just a handful of them but then as the team got bigger they decided to fork the code as the engine wasn’t suited to their need.
All I am saying is that they are using an heavily modified engine, that’s all.
Why you are getting so worked up by this statement is beyond me.
Are you saying they are using the stock version of the engine?
Because that’s not the case, I am arguing only that.
And this is key: normally, doing both would be a real headache - in my last project we had to eventually stop incorporating the latest engine updates and fork the code completely, taking the source code and heading off into the best direction possible for the game we were making. In fact, we did this with EQ as well – in that case the engine company was small and eventually shut down. So we had to grab all of the code, hire one of the engineers that worked on the original engine, and create one of the first MMO engines ever even though we were already well into development. That wasn’t easy – it paid off, but it took resources and time.
This has NOT happened with Unity. We've been able to upgrade to their more recent versions, often with not a lot of work involved.
I bolded the important parts to make it easy for you to understand. So there was NO FORK, they did NOT change the netcode (although they "might" someday). Somehow you read the same blog I did, and got out of it that they replaced the netcode (wrong) and that they forked the code (which they explicitly state they did not). Please stop posting factually incorrect statements, and if you DO have a source that counter-acts Brad's own words please cite it because all you are currently doing is causing confusion.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
My understanding though was they entered a kick starter campaign that failed in no small part due to a lack of actual game development they could show people.
So they selected Unity due to 1, cost, and 2, the ability to use prefabricated game assets.
That led them to work hard on building a game world as fast as possible using such assets.
Then later, they didn't like a lot of what they had done, and basically started over.
And now I have no idea at all what they are doing vis-a-vis Unity, other than that's their engine.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
One day I fear that Brad will be blogging about what went wrong with Pantheon, and the first sentence of that blog will be "We tried to do too much."
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests