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Objective Way to Differentiate Between Update, Expansion, and Sequel

learis1learis1 Member UncommonPosts: 169
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
POE 2 was recently announced, and people are debating whether it really should be termed with such a name, or whether it's better to classify it as an expansion. And I myself am curious.

Do you think there can be objective rules for distinguishing expansions from new games/sequels. As in, "if it has a, b, and c then it's a new game/sequel. But if it lacks c, it's just an expansion. If it lacks c and b, then it's just an update." Or is this classification unavoidably a subjective opinion?


Mend and Defend

GdemamiAlBQuirky

Comments

  • learis1learis1 Member UncommonPosts: 169
    Arterius said:
    Yes. If the sequel comes out and work stops or stalls on the first game then it is a sequel. That is not happening with either Overwatch 1 and 2 or Path of Exile 1 or 2. So I would argue they are more large expansions then full blown sequels 
    So if work did stop, then it would be a sequel? It seems rather arbitrary to say work must stall or stop in order for something to be a sequel. I don't see why an older game couldn't still have more updates to it while its sequel continues. That is actually what is happening with Maplestory and Maplestory 2.

    Mend and Defend

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671

    The writer of the article is getting the impression that it wont be "PoE2" per se, but a different campaign that people can choose to engage in. Supposedly all the mtx and such will be in both versions, so people dont have to worry so much about investing into poe1.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,500
    Update - Free
    Expansion - $29.99
    Sequel - $59.99

    Pretty much defines it.

    ;)
    learis1moshraIselin

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 766
    Kyleran said:
    Update - Free
    Expansion - $29.99
    Sequel - $59.99

    Pretty much defines it.

    ;)
    But what if. . .

    Original game - Free
    Expansion - Free
    Sequel - Free

    Like POE and POE2?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,500
    sayuu said:
    Kyleran said:
    Update - Free
    Expansion - $29.99
    Sequel - $59.99

    Pretty much defines it.

    ;)
    But what if. . .

    Original game - Free
    Expansion - Free
    Sequel - Free

    Like POE and POE2?
    Nothing good in life is ever really free and if you aren't spending some money in POE then someone is doing something very wrong.

     :D 

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    Yes and no.

    You can define the difference between update, sequel and expansion, but reality will never conform to your definitions or rules.


    With that said, if you can move a character between different versions of the game then we're talking about different version of same game, not a new game.
     
  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,401
    sayuu said:
    Kyleran said:
    Update - Free
    Expansion - $29.99
    Sequel - $59.99

    Pretty much defines it.

    ;)
    But what if. . .

    Original game - Free
    Expansion - Free
    Sequel - Free

    Like POE and POE2?
    The real question is: Does all cosmetics (and other MT) you bought for POE carry over to POE2?
    If yes, then why even bother calling it POE2 if its free and you get all your stuff...

    If no, then Kyleran's point stand.
    Free to play is currently broken
  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,180
    hfztt said:
    sayuu said:
    Kyleran said:
    Update - Free
    Expansion - $29.99
    Sequel - $59.99

    Pretty much defines it.

    ;)
    But what if. . .

    Original game - Free
    Expansion - Free
    Sequel - Free

    Like POE and POE2?
    The real question is: Does all cosmetics (and other MT) you bought for POE carry over to POE2?
    If yes, then why even bother calling it POE2 if its free and you get all your stuff...

    If no, then Kyleran's point stand.
    Path of Exile 2 characters will use the same "class archetypes" as those of the original game, but you'll have to create a new one in order to play the new story. PoE2 characters can select from 19 new Ascendancy Classes that differ from the old ones, which will still be available in the original Path of Exile campaign. Fortunately, all your cosmetics will carry over, as it all exists within a single ecosystem.
    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    learis1 said:
    POE 2 was recently announced, and people are debating whether it really should be termed with such a name, or whether it's better to classify it as an expansion. And I myself am curious.

    Do you think there can be objective rules for distinguishing expansions from new games/sequels. As in, "if it has a, b, and c then it's a new game/sequel. But if it lacks c, it's just an expansion. If it lacks c and b, then it's just an update." Or is this classification unavoidably a subjective opinion?


    Expansion sounds better for charging top dollar for extra content.

    This is just a general statement over all, not sure how much POE 2 is, in fact they are usually inexpensive for games like this. 
  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011
    These days it’s all marketing fluff. They will use whatever terms will sell more product, like ”gourmet” frozen meals. What makes it gourmet? 
    AAAMEOW

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,706
    Sequel = new content that you can't access from the original game, i.e. you have to leave the original game in order to access the new content.

    Expansion = new content that is at least 10%+ the size of the base game. When I say size, I mean not just content but systems too.

    Update = anything smaller than an expansion



    That's how I view them, but I also generally take Kyleran's view and judge by money. For example, if the original game was £40, and a new DLC/expansion is £20, then I expect the expansion to be at least 50% the size of the original game. If it's less than that, then I'm being ripped off. If it's more than that, I'm getting a good deal.

    This is why I rarely buy DLC....
    Asm0deus
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    POE is just confusing the issue by using "2" in an unconventional way. Normally a "2" as in Destiny 2 for example, means a new game with nothing (or very little as is the case with continuing series like ME where some story choices and outcomes from the previous one change the new one) from 1 being usable in 2.

    But POE 2 also is nothing like a DLC - which are typically just additions to the original. It's closer to the type of "expansion" where you have new content that can only be accessed when you get the expansion but also have significant "base game" changes that affect everyone.

    Let's agree to call it an expansel :)
    Asm0deus
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  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,405
    edited November 2019
    I agree with the last two post before me. POE2 is an expansion more than anything else.  It's the same thing as Elite Dangerous you have horizons and some have only the base game.

    They are not two separate games.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,193
    PoE 2 doesn’t mean it’s a sequel. It’s software, it’a major update.
  • immoralthangimmoralthang Member RarePosts: 300
    edited November 2019
    For me a true sequel boils down to huge changes in mechanics.

    A lot of people think Diablo 4 looks too much like 3 but there were so many differences in the reveals we have seen. Mounts, skill trees, open world, weapon swapping, and a very different art style are some examples.

    POE 2 and Overwatch 2 seem more like full price DLC than true sequels. Not a negative imo I'll probably be playing both. The art styles, interface, and gameplay mechanics seem largely unchanged at a fundamental level compared to D4 adding a whole new element of verticality
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,868
    learis1 said:
    POE 2 was recently announced, and people are debating whether it really should be termed with such a name, or whether it's better to classify it as an expansion. And I myself am curious.

    Do you think there can be objective rules for distinguishing expansions from new games/sequels. As in, "if it has a, b, and c then it's a new game/sequel. But if it lacks c, it's just an expansion. If it lacks c and b, then it's just an update." Or is this classification unavoidably a subjective opinion?


    It is not a matter of opinion. It is very simple: If the developer calls it Something something 2, it is a sequel. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but everyone will call it a sequel.
    Gdemami
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 3,848
    Iselin said:
    POE is just confusing the issue by using "2" in an unconventional way. Normally a "2" as in Destiny 2 for example, means a new game with nothing (or very little as is the case with continuing series like ME where some story choices and outcomes from the previous one change the new one) from 1 being usable in 2.

    But POE 2 also is nothing like a DLC - which are typically just additions to the original. It's closer to the type of "expansion" where you have new content that can only be accessed when you get the expansion but also have significant "base game" changes that affect everyone.

    Let's agree to call it an expansel :)
    Yeah, and when Bungie went from Destiny 1 to Destiny 2 all of the stuff you bought in Destiny 1 is now money down the toilet because the game is abandoned in favor of the sequel.

    So, to hell with those kind of sequels.

    Perhaps we should encourage more publishers to do sequels the Overwatch 2 and PoE2 way instead.
    Well, unless you like being screwed over.
    CelciusGdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Xiaoki said:
    Iselin said:
    POE is just confusing the issue by using "2" in an unconventional way. Normally a "2" as in Destiny 2 for example, means a new game with nothing (or very little as is the case with continuing series like ME where some story choices and outcomes from the previous one change the new one) from 1 being usable in 2.

    But POE 2 also is nothing like a DLC - which are typically just additions to the original. It's closer to the type of "expansion" where you have new content that can only be accessed when you get the expansion but also have significant "base game" changes that affect everyone.

    Let's agree to call it an expansel :)
    Yeah, and when Bungie went from Destiny 1 to Destiny 2 all of the stuff you bought in Destiny 1 is now money down the toilet because the game is abandoned in favor of the sequel.

    So, to hell with those kind of sequels.

    Perhaps we should encourage more publishers to do sequels the Overwatch 2 and PoE2 way instead.
    Well, unless you like being screwed over.
    I already said it's a very cool way to do it in the original thread about the announcement.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • LynxJSALynxJSA Member RarePosts: 3,332
    You have to make a new character for POE2, but your items carry over from the first one. This seems pretty unique. I know the Wizardry series and some other older RPGs allowed you to carry over characters and gear to the sequels, but I haven't really seen many modern games do this. Have other modern games done this?
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  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 753
    What's the difference between a sequal and a standalone game that's part of a franchise?

    Like Homeworld 2 is a sequal to Homeworld 1 but what is Homeworld Cataclysm (uses HW1 engine and story, but has its own unique units, campaign and mechanics as a standalone game)?
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,605
    Celcius said:
    learis1 said:
    POE 2 was recently announced, and people are debating whether it really should be termed with such a name, or whether it's better to classify it as an expansion. And I myself am curious.

    Do you think there can be objective rules for distinguishing expansions from new games/sequels. As in, "if it has a, b, and c then it's a new game/sequel. But if it lacks c, it's just an expansion. If it lacks c and b, then it's just an update." Or is this classification unavoidably a subjective opinion?


    It is not a matter of opinion. It is very simple: If the developer calls it Something something 2, it is a sequel. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but everyone will call it a sequel.
    I dont' play POE, so doing my best to understand the situation.  Base on the trailer and people's article, it sounds like POE2 means POE campaign 2.  In the official trailer the ending says 1 game 2 campaign.

    I presume the original POE is called campaign 1, and the new act/story line is called campaign 2.
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 5,085
    Updates dont happen to games, only to other programs. You update the program and its both bugfixes and new functionality.

    A patch is what an update to a game is called. It makes the game more closer to the state it should have had in the first place, i.e. have less errors. Usually no new game content is added, at least not to a larger extend. Patches are always free; you're fixing the game with them.

    An expansion is something that adds new content and you typically have to pay for it; however you also need the core game. MMOs might choose to make their expansions a patch, especially if their gameworld is seamless and they have to make sure everybody plays in the exactly identical world.

    A sequel is a completely new game that doesnt require the previous game installed, only refers to the older game with its game content, such as continuing a story or happening in the same universe.

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,955
    edited November 2019
    It may be possible to do this but then the goal posts will get moved. I remember when this site had a simple way of deciding when a MMO had launched and therefore when to do the launch review. If they were taking money in a cash shop, the game has launched. Since then we have had early access where you pay for the game but they may have nothing in the cash shop as yet and kick starter where players are funding a game before it starts.

    So lets try. An update does not have much in the way of new content, an expansion does and typically will have new zones, a sequel is a separate game and has new game resources to match.
  • immoralthangimmoralthang Member RarePosts: 300
    LynxJSA said:
    You have to make a new character for POE2, but your items carry over from the first one. This seems pretty unique. I know the Wizardry series and some other older RPGs allowed you to carry over characters and gear to the sequels, but I haven't really seen many modern games do this. Have other modern games done this?

    Mass Effect 2-3 allowed for you to upload your characters and choices they made from 2. 

    More games should do this though.
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