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Grouping and other social interactions
Kyleran
Member LegendaryPosts: 43,498
I view grouping as just one of the many ways players can interact with others in a MMORPG.
Others include PVP, trading, face to face or shop, auction houses not so much, world chats, mail, and even when griefing others. (There are more I'm sure)
Every time a player chooses to eschew one of these features for one reason or another they are IMO depriving themselves of a potentially entertaining interaction.
Ignoring enough of them well validates the premise that MMORPGs have become or are more enjoyable playing solo.
I am hoping to use this thread to discuss what sorts of designs other games have used or should include to make as many if not all social mechanics more appealing as this is where I believe the genre's devs have largely failed to take full advantage of.
Oh, and if you have no interest in socializing while gaming feel free to state so and why, but my intent is to focus more on solutions rather than avoidance.
Others include PVP, trading, face to face or shop, auction houses not so much, world chats, mail, and even when griefing others. (There are more I'm sure)
Every time a player chooses to eschew one of these features for one reason or another they are IMO depriving themselves of a potentially entertaining interaction.
Ignoring enough of them well validates the premise that MMORPGs have become or are more enjoyable playing solo.
I am hoping to use this thread to discuss what sorts of designs other games have used or should include to make as many if not all social mechanics more appealing as this is where I believe the genre's devs have largely failed to take full advantage of.
Oh, and if you have no interest in socializing while gaming feel free to state so and why, but my intent is to focus more on solutions rather than avoidance.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
One thing I have always thought would be cool would be if you go into an in-game bar or tavern and click on a player, and suddenly the clickee gets data on a random quest. If they accept it and invite the clicker, there is a bonus to XP and rewards. They can invite others, but only these two get the enhanced rewards. If the clickee does not invite the clicker, then no one gets enhanced rewards.
The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!
I despise crafting. Only game I've ever been able to do it without losing my mind with tedium is Elder Scrolls Online.
If I were to go into a club to meet friends (none of my friends are clubbers - for the most part - but it's an example) and there's dancing, then I'm there to meet friends, have a drink and will not dance because ew.
Or better example, if I go to a fair and there are carnival barkers I'm not going to spend time trying to win a bear. I'd rather do something else.
As far as grouping, I have no patience for poisonous people so I'd rather group with people I already know or people who have a good reputation.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I try to bring people into grouping, but as the years have rolled the different guilds I have known have moved to a more "trusted third party" position. You go for players someone has met and seen in action or go with someone from an allied guild.
With mechanics like a player "known" to an NPC being able to introduce other players to them, to be able to start a quest line without the rep grind.
Other cases where quests reward items that are "useless" to you. But could end up turning you into a secondary objective marker to another player to pick up from you (to trade for, or convince you to join their party). The reward for that player would be grabbing a bosses weakness to disable one of the boss mechanics. So not "required", but useful, and possibly giving you another party member.
Other cases of players being able to pick up "generic rumors" as a reward on some quests that can only be gifted to another player. And causes them to eventually gain a random quest, without starting at an NPC.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
I think I am pretty much interacting socially a lot by my standards.
I say look at original SWG, which was great at that. As your spirit or whatever deplenished, you needed a dancer (best at a Cantina). Scouts set up tents that people came to and socialized. SWG promoted socialization between and after fights. Because not everyone wants to talk while they fight. This has already been done well. It's just that no other game emulated it.
Personally, my enjoyment of grouping (when I group) is mainly because you can fight more interesting mobs, go to more interesting places, and get better shinies. 10-15 years ago I would have said it's for the social interaction, but that has atrophied.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I realize not all activities appeal to everyone, but again everyone you pass on decreases socialization opportunities.
Take your clubbing example, I won't dance either (no rhythm at all) but were I to also not speak to other patrons (especially if I came without wingmen), put earplugs in or wear headphones to block the annoying techno music why would I stick around paying far too much for drinks, better off to just "solo" drinking at home surfing porn. (To replace the fact I won't be seeing pretty young ladies at the club)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
First, I can choose to team up with some friends and we can complete an event like restarting a power plant within a certain time limit.
Once there should a random player come along to assist the team feels nothing but gratitude as it means completing the event quicker and as I am new often they know where things are located that I struggle to find.
When and if we succeed (starting power plants is easy, defending an anti aircraft battery from higher level npc attack not so much) everyone whether on the team or not receives similar rewards, oft times adjusted for varying player levels.
So the devs have made meeting others more enjoyable, much as was done in GW2 or ESO.
One caveat, a player is not rewarded just for showing up, they must repair at least one pipe or throw one switch to get the rewards.
If it's something like a boss kill event I have to get at least one hit in which resulted in me bravely charging in on the Scorch Queen with my level 19 character and a scoped hunting rifle, just to live long enough to get a shot in.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have this fantasy that goes all the way back to my pen and paper D&D days in the 1970s. I aspire to have a "well rounded" character. I want to craft. I want to gather. I want to learn in game languages. I want to fish. If there is an ability or skill in the game, I want it, and I want to max it.
In my mind, some day someone will look over my shoulder and says "damn Amathe. You can do a lot of stuff!"
In reality, that is entirely bullshit. Those abilities are nearly all useless. No one will ever admire me for having them. These games do not reward "well roundedness."
And yes, crafting usually sucks. I remember in original WoW, I was a tailor. That would theoretically make it possible for me to make clothes I could wear - 8 levels ago! Stupid tailoring.
But back to the topic. If you want to promote players interacting, the game needs that mindset. Not just a little, but a lot. For example, in EQ there were tons of languages you could learn. How do you learn them? From other players. (Not sure how the chicken and egg thing works here). EQ was always looking for opportunities to require one player to need something from another player.
You can't just make up some classes, throw in the holy trinity, and stand back and wait for the interaction. Games that promote players doing things with players are designed that way from top to bottom.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It was awesome in SWG. I came into the game via some RL friends and was handed a bunch of special resources and was able to make top level weapons. I had a weapons shop and repeat customers. It was absolutely fantastic.
If you're going to implement crafting then you need people to be known for their crafting. I was a gunsmith and was known for it. In EVE I created ships for other people and would have repeat customers.
In Entropia, given that there are shops and auction houses, it is difficult to establish yourself as a crafter as very few things in the game are in demand. Also, since price is the only thing that matters and there's no such thing as different quality, selling stuff is only about price.
I could conceivably construct weapons that are in demand but there is a lot of other concurrent crafters.
Overall, I like the ability to play with people and the ability to not have to. I have a busy schedule and i'm not reliable to group with. I do always enjoy crafting and if I could find a game like EVE with a good population but in the fantasy world where I could make a name for myself by crafting, then i'd join it in a heart beat.
I should really go to an SWG emulator for real . . . but if a natural successor came out for SWG, i'd try to carve a niche for myself. Of course, i won't have the time to really succeed, but you know, it would be fun while it lasted.
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's MMOs for you the best ideas are expensive and so don't get repeated unless part of the "core" experience which is in reality an extremely stripped down WoW template.
In fact these are the kind of things that make most MMORPG not very Social.
Convenient? Yes
Social? Not so much
EQ2 had interdependency between crafters, so you were never self sufficient.
I really liked it.
I want to relax and just craft things. I don't want to "depend" on others do it.
If I want to cross that river and turn left, I don't want to ask if others want to go that way.
I do agree that many players view grouping as the only way to interact with others and they are dead wrong. These players ask questions like "Why do you play MMOs if you don't group or just solo?" In my mind, grouping limits your socialization to 2 to 8 other players while soloing opens up socialization to anyone you meet in the world.
The big thing for me is the difference between "forced socialization" and "natural socialization." I don't want to be forced to interact or socialize. I'd rather have systems in place that made socialization occur naturally.
The problem, in my mind, is the players of today. They don't want to socialize. They're more focused on "beating the game", as quickly as possible, so they can go play another game. MMOs attract these players now, more than ever.
A real RPG is never "beaten." You may retire characters or save the world/universe, but the game is never beaten. A good RPG keeps you coming back even after you're the savior of the world/universe
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
So i doubt many at all understand what grouping can offer and what it is about because they never experienced it's full potential.
The majority of mmorpg gamer's played Wow a game that knows nothing about designing a game around the MMO feature or grouping for that matter.
The majority of mmorpg's definition of grouping=used for the purpose of Raiding or to auto warp to some lfg dungeon feature.For the purpose to share in a quest but never really caring anything about the group feature,could rename grouping to be sharing.
The funniest part of all,let's create a MMO+grouping and design EVERYTHING outside of instances to be SOLO...lmao...4head.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
No, not the instanced kind, nor cookies cutter villages with houses by the thousands, but in world, personalized housing.
FO76 is designed in a most curious fashion, with about 15 or so players per mini "world"
While this is negative in some ways, it does permit every player to build a camp in the world itself without flooding it with housing.
So a long time friend of mine and I were playing one night, and with his slightly better than me building skills admiring his new camp which had a floor, four walls, and a stairway to the roof.
Out of the blue a random high level player shows up and through a series of emotes we determine he's probably friendly, but perhaps a bit weird being dressed in a silver space suit. (We both were dressed like rejects from a Mad Max movie)
So...we turned on our headsets and mics for...area chat and actually "spoke to a stranger." (Mom is probably rolling in her grave)
From that simple conversation I now have about a dozen new high level, in game friends, attend events meant normally for the super leveled, and regularly turn down their kind offers to power level me....
They built my friend and I terrific houses using plans and understandings of glitches to create impressive structures I could never thought to do.
In fact, other high levels see our house and come visit either to buy stuff from our vendors or just to sight see and have then given me free stuff, invited me to come tag in on a boss kill event, or....turn on their area chat and just talk for a while
Weird eh? This strange, small multiplayer game has been the most amazingly social experience in meeting new random people than I've had in any game since DAOC back in 2003....and it all started off with...housing.
Go figure.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If I have any DIY questions I know who not to ask.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
You are basing your comment on games like WOW where you can go from lvl 1 to max in less than a month.
EQ2 leveling at launch was faster than EQ1 but slower than WOW.
In theory you could have many Crafting Alts but in reality you could have 2 feasible ones for a very long time, as you had to also level your character to have access to high level nodes for the raw materials.
And EQ2 crafting required items from more than 2 craft professions.
Leveling your Profession was also incredibly slow and expensive.
At one point I remember I had to craft hundreds of sets (7 pieces each) just to get a single level.
Definitely not for everyone.
If you played EQ2 recently, the game has got nothing to do with the game at launch.
The gap is bigger than between WoW retail and Classic.