That's not the point. The point is can all type of mmorpg players play on the same server. Weather you are a pure pve players, pure pvp, somewhere in between.
Not to mention some people only want to pvp when there is very few power gap. So some people may want to pvp but don't want to get gank when they are leveling.
Or like you said, there need to be separate type of mmorpg or seperate server type for everyone.
I think the optimal solution is a "normal server" with open world PVP with a few safe zones. And PVE server (players cannot attack each other). And no more servers (thats a mistake many developers make) otherwise the player community is too divided.
But there are also categories of games. You can have a really "care bear" game aka theme park MMOs in which everything is controlled. And you can have more "hardcore" games.
However I will say that many games in the past "got it right" and had the right mix. Its all about great development. As I said...I played games where I could enjoy my PVE thoroughly but had that little fear of being ganked. But it wasn't a fear that made my playing unbearable (some hardcore games especially unbalanced ones screw this up), on the contrary it was a "spice" I enjoyed.
But there will also always be the crying crowd. People whining about getting killed. For example I played a cyberpunk game once, and some dude was crying that he always got killed in the slums district (where terrorists patrolled). I would almost answer: "Dude this is real immersion". What this crowd wants is an immersive dangerous world....Without the danger? It makes no sense.
But again different games can be made. You can make the care bear fantasy games with a bunch of people slaying dragons in one happy family, that will sell I guess to a certain crowd.
It would have to be separate for it to work. Different continent, or map (like LOTRO minus the lag). There are plenty of straight up PvP options, and Single-player game options for both camps.
It would be nice to be able to scratch all my genre itches in one game, if the game world was big enough to accommodate something like that. To get immersed fully into one IP from every able, would be nice for once.
Either that or I would feel too overwhelmed to play!
I'm pretty sure the problem is with gamers, not the studios.
There are "gamers" out there who think they are entitled to play every game ever made. They buy the game knowing damn well it has PvP and spend their free time bitching on forums to nerf or remove PvP from the game.
Here's an idea if you don't like PvP:
Do not buy and play PvP games. The game wasn't made for you, cope and move on.
Don't roll a character on a PvP server. PvP server options are not for you, PvE server options ARE made for you.
Problem solved.
Pretty much this. Both ways.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park MMOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park M MOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
It's why we can't have nice things...
I would like to explore this thought a little bit. It's not that their "psychopathic PvPers", but their playing the game a different way, disrupting the other way of playing the game.
The word irritating comes to mind. It's like trying to read a book and the wife keeps interrupting. You have plans, and your wife has other plans.... who is right ?
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park M MOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
It's why we can't have nice things...
I would like to explore this thought a little bit. It's not that their "psychopathic PvPers", but their playing the game a different way, disrupting the other way of playing the game.
The word irritating comes to mind. It's like trying to read a book and the wife keeps interrupting. You have plans, and your wife has other plans.... who is right ?
Thus... the fault lays with the developers who designed the system.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park M MOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
It's why we can't have nice things...
I would like to explore this thought a little bit. It's not that their "psychopathic PvPers", but their playing the game a different way, disrupting the other way of playing the game.
The word irritating comes to mind. It's like trying to read a book and the wife keeps interrupting. You have plans, and your wife has other plans.... who is right ?
Thus... the fault lays with the developers who designed the system.
BINGO !!! I've been saying developers are 100% responsible for all actions.
Players will take advantage "or" exploit any means necessary, and you cant blame them one bit !
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park M MOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
It's why we can't have nice things...
I would like to explore this thought a little bit. It's not that their "psychopathic PvPers", but their playing the game a different way, disrupting the other way of playing the game.
The word irritating comes to mind. It's like trying to read a book and the wife keeps interrupting. You have plans, and your wife has other plans.... who is right ?
Thus... the fault lays with the developers who designed the system.
Yes and No. While developers are responsible to control the more abberent player behaviors...they really shouldn't have to, players should know better.
I went through some business conduct training this week where we role played several scenarios about situations about bullying others, padding expense accounts, or even not opening your purchased lunch container because the cashiers never bother to check its content.
What astonished me is every situation which supposedly had actually occurred had a clear right and wrong, yet apparently the firm felt the need to clarify what the correct responses were.
Do people really lack the abilty to discern right from wrong, or just the conscience to do so?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well... if someone is exploiting... as in they found a bug that makes them invisible and guards ignore them... they share the burden of exploiting that. But as far as mechanics... that’s all on the devs.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park M MOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
It's why we can't have nice things...
I would like to explore this thought a little bit. It's not that their "psychopathic PvPers", but their playing the game a different way, disrupting the other way of playing the game.
The word irritating comes to mind. It's like trying to read a book and the wife keeps interrupting. You have plans, and your wife has other plans.... who is right ?
Thus... the fault lays with the developers who designed the system.
Yes and No. While developers are responsible to control the more abberent player behaviors...they really shouldn't have to, players should know better.
I went through some business conduct training this week where we role played several scenarios about situations about bullying others, padding expense accounts, or even not opening your purchased lunch container because the cashiers never bother to check its content.
What astonished me is every situation which supposedly had actually occurred had a clear right and wrong, yet apparently the firm felt the need to clarify what the correct responses were.
Do people really lack the abilty to discern right from wrong, or just the conscience to do so?
As an armchair psychologist all I can do is smh.
The developers control the game world and rules, thus they ultimately are responsible for enabling the actions. In almost all cases the “bad” behavior is because there are no serious repercussions for it. Devs need to understand that crafting a world is more than just making some pixels and rudimentary ai mobs.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park M MOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
It's why we can't have nice things...
I would like to explore this thought a little bit. It's not that their "psychopathic PvPers", but their playing the game a different way, disrupting the other way of playing the game.
The word irritating comes to mind. It's like trying to read a book and the wife keeps interrupting. You have plans, and your wife has other plans.... who is right ?
Thus... the fault lays with the developers who designed the system.
Yes and No. While developers are responsible to control the more abberent player behaviors...they really shouldn't have to, players should know better.
I went through some business conduct training this week where we role played several scenarios about situations about bullying others, padding expense accounts, or even not opening your purchased lunch container because the cashiers never bother to check its content.
What astonished me is every situation which supposedly had actually occurred had a clear right and wrong, yet apparently the firm felt the need to clarify what the correct responses were.
Do people really lack the abilty to discern right from wrong, or just the conscience to do so?
As an armchair psychologist all I can do is smh.
I watched a video a few years back that stuck with me.... It was about kindergarten age kids, but it applies to "adult nature too".
A counselor sat down with a room full of small children with a fake gun and told them it was loaded. He explained in detail and beautifully how dangerous a gun is.
"Never touch a gun, if you see one run and tell an adult" he told them. He then asked them individually if understand. Even made each respond to insure they understood, all agreed.
Then the counselor took the gun and put in a toy box and closed the lid. Again he gave his speech and left the room..... Guess what happened next ?
EVERY SINGLE CHILD RAN FOR THE GUN WITHOUT HESITATION !
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park M MOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
It's why we can't have nice things...
I would like to explore this thought a little bit. It's not that their "psychopathic PvPers", but their playing the game a different way, disrupting the other way of playing the game.
The word irritating comes to mind. It's like trying to read a book and the wife keeps interrupting. You have plans, and your wife has other plans.... who is right ?
Thus... the fault lays with the developers who designed the system.
Yes and No. While developers are responsible to control the more abberent player behaviors...they really shouldn't have to, players should know better.
I went through some business conduct training this week where we role played several scenarios about situations about bullying others, padding expense accounts, or even not opening your purchased lunch container because the cashiers never bother to check its content.
What astonished me is every situation which supposedly had actually occurred had a clear right and wrong, yet apparently the firm felt the need to clarify what the correct responses were.
Do people really lack the abilty to discern right from wrong, or just the conscience to do so?
As an armchair psychologist all I can do is smh.
The developers control the game world and rules, thus they ultimately are responsible for enabling the actions. In almost all cases the “bad” behavior is because there are no serious repercussions for it. Devs need to understand that crafting a world is more than just making some pixels and rudimentary ai mobs.
Long ago I read an article about the stages of human development.
The 3rd stage was where people only do the right thing, or obey laws because there are consequences for not doing so, which much of human society is "stuck" at.
The 4th and highest level was when people's actions were governed by what was the right thing to do, and always doing it even when no one was watching.
Real life example, a few weeks ago my daughter went out clubbing and during the night one of her wingman lost a purse along the way.
They next day her friend got a Facebook message from a bartender at a bar the girls never visited.
Seems four women found the purse on the sidewalk out in front so brought it in and gave it to the bartender.
He locked it in the managers office overnight, then looked through it the next day during his shift, found out who she was and sent the Facebook message.
When they went to recover the purse it was completely intact including two IDs, a credit card and $80 cash.
So here at least were several people who knew what the right thing to do was .... but most times this would not have been the expected outcome.
Similar situations happen in games. While playing FO76 my friend and I befriended some high levels who have been nothing but nice, gave us free stuff, helped us level, built us terrific camps etc.
Then there was one high level who repetitively dropped grenades on my level 20 friend until he was dead, for no particular reason, for the lulz I suppose
Abberant behavior regardless of developer involvement and why we can't have nice things.....and require controls to be put in..because some people just are assholes.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
To that near last poster,the idea of doing the right thing is ALWAYS going to be he right thing in my mind,i do not see that as any negative what so ever.I call that morals and although i believe the majority abide by proper morals MOST of the time,it is not all the time. Most would sell out for money and to save themselves,they might be given a choice of giving the raise to the guy who needs it or yourself and most will take it for themselves.
On this topic note however it is not about doing the right thing or even morals,it is about allowing a game BOTH sides PVE and PVP to be at their best and combining them does NOT do that.
So it is simple to say...can hey both exist well yeah of course but it is not in the best interest of either party or the game.What really baffles me more than anything is even after a complete FAIL by a developer to push both into the same fray,they ignore the results and still try and push both agenda.So al li can think of is the mindset of some people in charge is an oddity,a steadfast mindset without thinking,they want pvp,therefore it shall exist.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I one time talked to a high level Catholic Priest. Highly respected and had several priest under him of a very large church. More importantly he understood all religion.
There was always good and evil he stated..... to me it's hit and miss on who you will encounter.
I have to admit, I had an evil streak in me when I was younger. However I refused to steal. This shows with everything their are gray areas.
Grr.. on a plane and seem to have lost my response. Anyhow...
Kyleran context matters. We are not in the “real world”. The vast majority of games are designed around gaining power by killing sentient beings. So I guess we can apply our morality to the virtual world and all just sit in a Tavern and chat... but that doesn’t sound like a really fun game.
So given that... it’s up to the developers to design a world and the society that we will play in. It’s up to them to set the acceptable behavior in the game and the repercussions for acting outside the norms.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
PvP trashes PvE when allowed to gank PvE players. PvE doesn't affect PvP players at all, other than a few psychotic individuals who gnash their teeth in frustration that they can't grief the low level noob collecting herbs or whatever.
(...)
Yes, I talked a fair amount on this subject, but I guess some people still don't get it that most PvErs don't like getting randomly ganked in unfair and unwanted fights. Worse yet, they never seem to realize their whining that they should be able to kill anyone without restriction is rather pathetic.
The problem is the care bear crowd which spawned the Theme Park MMOs which destroyed such immersion (everything is zoned, everything is controlled, its a theme park).
I assure you the blame goes both ways, sociopathic PVPers lacking any sort of fair play or honor, who actually enjoy inflicting grief on others for no other reason than the game allows them to have helped lead the way.
It's why we can't have nice things...
Again it depends on the intent of the game. I am very much interested in role playing and immersion in a game. If PVP fits the immersion I am for it, if it does not I am against it. It's also about effective implementation.
Simple example: If you allow PVP in a beginner zone, and all beginners get pawned, making the game unplayable, that is terrible. However let's say that above the beginner level, you can enter dangerous zones where you may get killed (because its a dangerous cyberpunk or medieval world), then I feel its fair game. I don't really get the "sociopathic player" comment because this is exactly the immersion of getting killed by a criminal/bandit in such games. Like I said, it depends on game style and implementation. For example, if a game is marketed as a realistic dangerous cyberpunk world, and you get ganked by bandits in the Sewer, and you go about and cry about safe spaces on the forum...Then I feel its nonsense. A way to compensate is possibly to build a PVE only server for that crowd. But again, intent and implementation is everything. The PVP/PVE component has to serve the setting & athmosphere of the game, not harm it.
For example if I'm playing a heroic game where the objective is to go through dungeons as a team, I might not want a bunch of assholes constantly killing their teammates. Again, different game different gameplay. The problem I have is when the equivalent of SJW come into good games and attempt to fundamentally change the game for the worse, due to crying. The worst is entire games being built around "not being offended" which I feel hurts the original creativity and enjoyment of many games. For information the games where I had the most laughs in my life were those where dying was easier, so to speak, and where there generally was more freedom? Why? Because in true RPG fashion you could truly live your own story without immersion breaking. Not saying I fully dislike Theme Park MMOs (I played WoW for some years), that said they are not comparable to "golden age" MMOs back then.
Comments
But there are also categories of games. You can have a really "care bear" game aka theme park MMOs in which everything is controlled. And you can have more "hardcore" games.
However I will say that many games in the past "got it right" and had the right mix. Its all about great development. As I said...I played games where I could enjoy my PVE thoroughly but had that little fear of being ganked. But it wasn't a fear that made my playing unbearable (some hardcore games especially unbalanced ones screw this up), on the contrary it was a "spice" I enjoyed.
But there will also always be the crying crowd. People whining about getting killed. For example I played a cyberpunk game once, and some dude was crying that he always got killed in the slums district (where terrorists patrolled). I would almost answer: "Dude this is real immersion". What this crowd wants is an immersive dangerous world....Without the danger? It makes no sense.
But again different games can be made. You can make the care bear fantasy games with a bunch of people slaying dragons in one happy family, that will sell I guess to a certain crowd.
It would be nice to be able to scratch all my genre itches in one game, if the game world was big enough to accommodate something like that. To get immersed fully into one IP from every able, would be nice for once.
Either that or I would feel too overwhelmed to play!
Gut Out!
What, me worry?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's why we can't have nice things...
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's not that their "psychopathic PvPers", but their playing the game a different way, disrupting the other way of playing the game.
The word irritating comes to mind.
It's like trying to read a book and the wife keeps interrupting. You have plans, and your wife has other plans.... who is right ?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I've been saying developers are 100% responsible for all actions.
Players will take advantage "or" exploit any means necessary, and you cant blame them one bit !
I went through some business conduct training this week where we role played several scenarios about situations about bullying others, padding expense accounts, or even not opening your purchased lunch container because the cashiers never bother to check its content.
What astonished me is every situation which supposedly had actually occurred had a clear right and wrong, yet apparently the firm felt the need to clarify what the correct responses were.
Do people really lack the abilty to discern right from wrong, or just the conscience to do so?
As an armchair psychologist all I can do is smh.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
A counselor sat down with a room full of small children with a fake gun and told them it was loaded. He explained in detail and beautifully how dangerous a gun is.
"Never touch a gun, if you see one run and tell an adult" he told them. He then asked them individually if understand. Even made each respond to insure they understood, all agreed.
Then the counselor took the gun and put in a toy box and closed the lid. Again he gave his speech and left the room..... Guess what happened next ?
EVERY SINGLE CHILD RAN FOR THE GUN WITHOUT HESITATION !
The 3rd stage was where people only do the right thing, or obey laws because there are consequences for not doing so, which much of human society is "stuck" at.
The 4th and highest level was when people's actions were governed by what was the right thing to do, and always doing it even when no one was watching.
Real life example, a few weeks ago my daughter went out clubbing and during the night one of her wingman lost a purse along the way.
They next day her friend got a Facebook message from a bartender at a bar the girls never visited.
Seems four women found the purse on the sidewalk out in front so brought it in and gave it to the bartender.
He locked it in the managers office overnight, then looked through it the next day during his shift, found out who she was and sent the Facebook message.
When they went to recover the purse it was completely intact including two IDs, a credit card and $80 cash.
So here at least were several people who knew what the right thing to do was .... but most times this would not have been the expected outcome.
Similar situations happen in games. While playing FO76 my friend and I befriended some high levels who have been nothing but nice, gave us free stuff, helped us level, built us terrific camps etc.
Then there was one high level who repetitively dropped grenades on my level 20 friend until he was dead, for no particular reason, for the lulz I suppose
Abberant behavior regardless of developer involvement and why we can't have nice things.....and require controls to be put in..because some people just are assholes.
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Most would sell out for money and to save themselves,they might be given a choice of giving the raise to the guy who needs it or yourself and most will take it for themselves.
On this topic note however it is not about doing the right thing or even morals,it is about allowing a game BOTH sides PVE and PVP to be at their best and combining them does NOT do that.
So it is simple to say...can hey both exist well yeah of course but it is not in the best interest of either party or the game.What really baffles me more than anything is even after a complete FAIL by a developer to push both into the same fray,they ignore the results and still try and push both agenda.So al li can think of is the mindset of some people in charge is an oddity,a steadfast mindset without thinking,they want pvp,therefore it shall exist.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There was always good and evil he stated..... to me it's hit and miss on who you will encounter.
I have to admit, I had an evil streak in me when I was younger. However I refused to steal. This shows with everything their are gray areas.
Kyleran context matters. We are not in the “real world”. The vast majority of games are designed around gaining power by killing sentient beings. So I guess we can apply our morality to the virtual world and all just sit in a Tavern and chat... but that doesn’t sound like a really fun game.
So given that... it’s up to the developers to design a world and the society that we will play in. It’s up to them to set the acceptable behavior in the game and the repercussions for acting outside the norms.
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Simple example: If you allow PVP in a beginner zone, and all beginners get pawned, making the game unplayable, that is terrible. However let's say that above the beginner level, you can enter dangerous zones where you may get killed (because its a dangerous cyberpunk or medieval world), then I feel its fair game. I don't really get the "sociopathic player" comment because this is exactly the immersion of getting killed by a criminal/bandit in such games.
Like I said, it depends on game style and implementation. For example, if a game is marketed as a realistic dangerous cyberpunk world, and you get ganked by bandits in the Sewer, and you go about and cry about safe spaces on the forum...Then I feel its nonsense.
A way to compensate is possibly to build a PVE only server for that crowd.
But again, intent and implementation is everything. The PVP/PVE component has to serve the setting & athmosphere of the game, not harm it.
For example if I'm playing a heroic game where the objective is to go through dungeons as a team, I might not want a bunch of assholes constantly killing their teammates. Again, different game different gameplay.
The problem I have is when the equivalent of SJW come into good games and attempt to fundamentally change the game for the worse, due to crying. The worst is entire games being built around "not being offended" which I feel hurts the original creativity and enjoyment of many games.
For information the games where I had the most laughs in my life were those where dying was easier, so to speak, and where there generally was more freedom? Why? Because in true RPG fashion you could truly live your own story without immersion breaking. Not saying I fully dislike Theme Park MMOs (I played WoW for some years), that said they are not comparable to "golden age" MMOs back then.