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Montreal law firms seeks to start class action against Epic Games

Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 375
Just saw this today. If it goes ahead, it should prove to be and interesting case.       https://games.slashdot.org/story/19/10/04/2023242/montreal-law-firm-looks-to-launch-class-action-lawsuit-against-fortnite-developer
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Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,557
    edited October 5
    Actually i would be very surprised if Epic did not warn them.There is usually a long set of paragraphs defining use of the product and warnings and liability.
    However i also know that a lot of stuff studio lawyers have written is not LAW and cannot 100% be considered legal.

    Example there is always statements of zero liability for everything and includes a very limited liability based only on factual legal terms.

    So for any MTL legal firm to try and form a case based on OPINIONS,such as the world health organization's claims not supported by any factual definitive support would not fly.If this was a small firm ,sure they might be able to bully them but there are changing laws to protect firms from  that as well.

    I just find it very lame by that firm to target Epic when this has been going on for a LOT of years by a LOT of other big studios.Matter of FACT several months ago an article arose that Blizzard has been doing studies and creating code that would MANIPULATE player spending and habits for spending.The fact that Blizzard "claimed"they never intended to use the code is BS,you wouldn't spend time and money doing something you never intended to use.

    Point is that if they did any homework Blizzard would be a MUCH easier target.So what i feel is that this is some personal agenda,some lawyers kids are driving their parents crazy because they spend too much time playing Fortnite.This smells of a personal agenda and targeting the most notable in the news business at this current time,so personal and with a money agenda.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    It's a ridiculous claim. They are saying Epic owes them money because they had fun playing their game.

    What's next? Suing your partner because having sex with them releases dopamine to the brain?

    The logic behind this claim can be aimed at anything, literally anything, a human can enjoy doing.
    QuizzicalScotelveonekrgwynneAAAMEOW
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,557
    edited October 5
    https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/tos

    This is the TOS set forth by Epic.

    I read a bit,it seems very typical of other TOS i have often read.
    I did notice something that would always hold Epic liable and that is the statement that you must consent that the user is of legal age.Well Epic would most certainly understand that a VERY large majority would NOT be of legal age and NOT be bound by any TOS.

    If Epic even tried to claim otherwise they would be laughed at by any court/judge.They would also give notice that their word is worthless.

    SO also in typical fashion and an ideal that angers me is court cases,law suits typically target children because they are also typically MUCH easier cases to win.

    I would also be very skeptical of the binding contract claiming that users must not use court but must resolve issues with Epic themselves.
    One of the conditions for a TOS to be upheld is the conditions must be FAIR.Well trying to remove a users rights to use a court of law would NOT be considered fair and only serves to give the business an unfair edge over the user.
    Iselinelveone

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,106
    Wizardry said:
    https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/tos

    This is the TOS set forth by Epic.

    I read a bit,it seems very typical of other TOS i have often read.
    I did notice something that would always hold Epic liable and that is the statement that you must consent that the user is of legal age.Well Epic would most certainly understand that a VERY large majority would NOT be of legal age and NOT be bound by any TOS.

    If Epic even tried to claim otherwise they would be laughed at by any court/judge.They would also give notice that their word is worthless.

    SO also in typical fashion and an ideal that angers me is court cases,law suits typically target children because they are also typically MUCH easier cases to win.

    I would also be very skeptical of the binding contract claiming that users must not use court but must resolve issues with Epic themselves.
    One of the conditions for a TOS to be upheld is the conditions must be FAIR.Well trying to remove a users rights to use a court of law would NOT be considered fair and only serves to give the business an unfair edge over the user.
    Is this the first time you've heard of the mandatory arbitration clause epidemic in the US?
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,896
    Hey, at least that reason seems more legit and logical than most given here for hating on Epic and their store....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    elveoneswarmdiealkarionlog
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,858
    I think that's ridiculous.

    It would mean we'd need warnings on everything from coins to sailboats.
    elveone
     
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,106
    Vrika said:
    I think that's ridiculous.

    It would mean we'd need warnings on everything from coins to sailboats.
    I can see a distinction between getting addicted to something not specifically designed to be addictive and something deliberately designed to be so.

    I think Epic will throw enough lawyers at this to squash them easily but I hope it gets far enough so we can find out more about the "designed by psychologists to be addictive" part.

    I don't particularly care about the outcome one way or the other but I'd love to see more details about that.
    elveonealkarionlog
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,159
    We should sue the legal system because lawyers might get addicted to the payouts that they get if they win frivolous lawsuits like the one in the original post.
  • vegetableoilvegetableoil Member UncommonPosts: 428
    From what I see suing Epic is a waste of time. I would probably use the example exercising also releases dopamine doesn't make people dependent or addicted to exercise as a defense try to counter this if they can if not the case will be thrown out.
  • ElidienElidien Member RarePosts: 1,395
    They would have to prove that epic did something fraudulent or illegal that caused people to get addicted. Did you know if you play Fortnite backwards it plays the Devil's music? :)

    Also its a class action. Basically all parties sign off on foregoing their own legal action and find lawyers that want to make a quick buck and they get lots of people to sign on. The plaintiffs get nothing and the lawyers get Epic to settle out of court for peanuts. Its a lawyer get rich quick scheme often (not all....some class actions are very very important....but not this).
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,101
    edited October 5
    It's a ridiculous claim. They are saying Epic owes them money because they had fun playing their game.

    What's next? Suing your partner because having sex with them releases dopamine to the brain?

    The logic behind this claim can be aimed at anything, literally anything, a human can enjoy doing.
    But that's the legal system for you, and its biggest flaw. You could get ten claims like this and they get thrown out, then number eleven wins. Suddenly there is a new precedent based on that ruling. If you keep trying sooner or later you can get lucky and the "reality" of what is the legal changes.

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,159
    If this lawsuit or anything like it is successful, then games will come with warning labels warning you that the game might be fun enough to make you want to play it some more.  Kind of like those ridiculous Wartune ads, except with a writing style written in legalese rather than clickbait.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,561
    I don't know of any case studies about online games having addictive qualities, but I'm sure the dozens of people who have died from lack of sleep or eating because of the way certain games are designed is probably a good indication that they are or at the very least have a high chance of becoming one.

    Of those who have died while gaming, don't think I've ever heard of a lawsuit against said companies and if there was, I didn't hear about anyone winning anything, except for maybe some tiger blood.

  • vegetableoilvegetableoil Member UncommonPosts: 428
    edited October 5
    Rhoklaw said:
    I don't know of any case studies about online games having addictive qualities, but I'm sure the dozens of people who have died from lack of sleep or eating because of the way certain games are designed is probably a good indication that they are or at the very least have a high chance of becoming one.

    Of those who have died while gaming, don't think I've ever heard of a lawsuit against said companies and if there was, I didn't hear about anyone winning anything, except for maybe some tiger blood.
    No one told them to stop eating or sleeping, if company have to be responsible to the time they eat then same could be said that mcdonalds cause obesity, but does mcdonalds as a corporation shove all those burger into people stomach?. People have to be responsible for themselves not companies, people have free will or did they sign their soul to the devil to be a slave? BTW there are lawsuit for it, the judge just threw it out, because he said corporation are not baby sitter. It's a simple common sense.
    elveoneArterius
  • TEKK3NTEKK3N Member RarePosts: 804
    I am not an Epic fan, but to be honest this is silly.

    I propose a class action against parents who are unable to educate their kids.
    This has far more chances to be successfull.
  • fyehu43fyehu43 Newbie CommonPosts: 22
    TEKK3N said:
    I am not an Epic fan, but to be honest this is silly.

    I propose a class action against parents who are unable to educate their kids.
    This has far more chances to be successfull.
    Agree. It is VERY silly. I somehow don't see this type of stuff flying anywhere in Europe only in NA.

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 6,931
    fyehu43 said:
    TEKK3N said:
    I am not an Epic fan, but to be honest this is silly.

    I propose a class action against parents who are unable to educate their kids.
    This has far more chances to be successfull.
    Agree. It is VERY silly. I somehow don't see this type of stuff flying anywhere in Europe only in NA.
    Yeah, the EU is immune to stupid lawsuits.
  • ThaneThane Member RarePosts: 3,446
    edited October 6
    seriously? i call bullshit.
    if they are unable to raise their kids propperly, that is not some game's fault..

    what's next, sueing the creators of stone floors, because they didn't tell anyone stone can damage the head when smashing on it?

    so i guess i better put a warning on my games from now on: "warning: game could be fun!"

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • krgwynnekrgwynne Member UncommonPosts: 116
    seriously i can see the court asking 1 thing what were the parents doing, if they did not like what there kids were doing its on them not some game company. i can not see this as a true case it is obviously a fake and if it is not it will be thrown out of court anyway.
  • ZeekPlayzZeekPlayz Member UncommonPosts: 20
    Jamar870 said:
    Just saw this today. If it goes ahead, it should prove to be and interesting case.       https://games.slashdot.org/story/19/10/04/2023242/montreal-law-firm-looks-to-launch-class-action-lawsuit-against-fortnite-developer
    rip
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,561
    Rhoklaw said:
    I don't know of any case studies about online games having addictive qualities, but I'm sure the dozens of people who have died from lack of sleep or eating because of the way certain games are designed is probably a good indication that they are or at the very least have a high chance of becoming one.

    Of those who have died while gaming, don't think I've ever heard of a lawsuit against said companies and if there was, I didn't hear about anyone winning anything, except for maybe some tiger blood.
    No one told them to stop eating or sleeping, if company have to be responsible to the time they eat then same could be said that mcdonalds cause obesity, but does mcdonalds as a corporation shove all those burger into people stomach?. People have to be responsible for themselves not companies, people have free will or did they sign their soul to the devil to be a slave? BTW there are lawsuit for it, the judge just threw it out, because he said corporation are not baby sitter. It's a simple common sense.
    No, you apparently don't understand liabilities in the business world. As stupid as it may sound, McDonalds was sued by an elderly woman because SHE spilled coffee on herself. Granted, the coffee may have been excessively hot, but with your single train of thought process, you'd blame the elderly woman because it's not McDonalds fault she wasn't more careful.

    Then you have all those pieces of electronics, you know, the ones with warning labels everywhere about being shocked or possibly killed. If companies aren't responsible for what their products are capable of doing, why do they all have warning labels?

    Addiction is a medically proven issue among not just a dozen or hundreds of people, but rather millions. Alcohol, drugs, smoking or chewing tobacco, gambling and yes, even gaming. It's a company's responsibility to warn customers of any and all possible side effects of their products.

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,633
    From what I see suing Epic is a waste of time. I would probably use the example exercising also releases dopamine doesn't make people dependent or addicted to exercise as a defense try to counter this if they can if not the case will be thrown out.
    But. It is a quite well a founded fact that people do get addicted to the dopamine dose they get from exercising. So that would be a bad argument D
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,858
    kjempff said:
    From what I see suing Epic is a waste of time. I would probably use the example exercising also releases dopamine doesn't make people dependent or addicted to exercise as a defense try to counter this if they can if not the case will be thrown out.
    But. It is a quite well a founded fact that people do get addicted to the dopamine dose they get from exercising. So that would be a bad argument D
    Yes, you can get addicted to exercising.

    But I think the question is, should those exercise equipment have warnings? How about food, should it have warnings? Are people required to attach warning labels to themselves to warn their partners before they engage in sex? Should The Bible have addiction warning printed on it?

    Humans can and will get addicted to just about anything that they like. The mechanism for that is built into us. If triggering that mechanism is forbidden without prior warning, you'll have to place that warning into just about anything.
     
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,159
    Rhoklaw said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    I don't know of any case studies about online games having addictive qualities, but I'm sure the dozens of people who have died from lack of sleep or eating because of the way certain games are designed is probably a good indication that they are or at the very least have a high chance of becoming one.

    Of those who have died while gaming, don't think I've ever heard of a lawsuit against said companies and if there was, I didn't hear about anyone winning anything, except for maybe some tiger blood.
    No one told them to stop eating or sleeping, if company have to be responsible to the time they eat then same could be said that mcdonalds cause obesity, but does mcdonalds as a corporation shove all those burger into people stomach?. People have to be responsible for themselves not companies, people have free will or did they sign their soul to the devil to be a slave? BTW there are lawsuit for it, the judge just threw it out, because he said corporation are not baby sitter. It's a simple common sense.
    No, you apparently don't understand liabilities in the business world. As stupid as it may sound, McDonalds was sued by an elderly woman because SHE spilled coffee on herself. Granted, the coffee may have been excessively hot, but with your single train of thought process, you'd blame the elderly woman because it's not McDonalds fault she wasn't more careful.

    Then you have all those pieces of electronics, you know, the ones with warning labels everywhere about being shocked or possibly killed. If companies aren't responsible for what their products are capable of doing, why do they all have warning labels?

    Addiction is a medically proven issue among not just a dozen or hundreds of people, but rather millions. Alcohol, drugs, smoking or chewing tobacco, gambling and yes, even gaming. It's a company's responsibility to warn customers of any and all possible side effects of their products.
    I get why companies post the stupid warning labels on their products.  They're trying to defend themselves against frivolous lawsuits.  The McDonald's coffee lawsuit is a famous example of exactly the sort of frivolous lawsuit that occasionally results in a huge payout.

    Sometimes, warning labels are entirely appropriate.  Sometimes there are non-obvious risks that could cause serious harm.  Medicines should tell you how much a dose is so that you don't overdose, and what the known side-effects are, for example.

    But warning labels about things that are incandescently obvious to any moron shouldn't be necessary.  Do you really think that the woman wouldn't have spilled the coffee if only it had a warning label on it saying that the coffee might be hot?

    As a result of the McDonald's lawsuit, I once got a mug that came with a warning label that the contents may be hot.  The mug was empty when I got it.  And my thought at the time was, someone is going to put liquid nitrogen in it, spill it, and then sue the company that made the mug saying, you didn't warn me that the contents that I put in there myself may be cold.
  • swarmdieswarmdie Member UncommonPosts: 59
    edited October 6
    lahnmir said:
    Hey, at least that reason seems more legit and logical than most given here for hating on Epic and their store....

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir

    swarmdie said:

    Sir, you made my day. 100% agree.

    lahnmir
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