Hey all -- just some quick replies to things raised here!
I so wish we could just go back to announcement when game is beta worthy (basically complete) and 3 months from launch.
This is a funding announcement... it was written so that we can attract business attention,not player attention -- otherwise, there would be stuff about the game in it We have to do a funding announcement because when you take venture capital, you end up filing a Form D to the SEC, show up on websites and legal databases, all that. So you want to get your story out there.
Having to do that anyway means it's also a good opportunity to tell the world what you're about so that people interested in working with you might apply. And we're definitely hiring, of course, so that another reason to do it. Can't get many resumes if no one knows you exist.
That doesnt leave much room for a good, or
fair gaming experience for the gaming audience first and foremost. This
oozes themepark, battle royale, microtransaction pit.
That is definitely not what we are making. When GameDaily.biz interviewed me, they asked about the business landscape (interview is here: https://gamedaily.biz/article/1263/raph-kosters-playable-worlds-lands-27m-to-create-a-new-kind-of-mmo) and I said "the path forward that I see is studios that are capable of making
something larger, something that isn’t just consumable content,
something that holds a playerbase for a long time, that drives loyalty
and retention." The part of the quote they didn't use is that I said it's about building trust between the developer and the playerbase.
It's strange to me that legends of the mmorpg
space like Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid choose, or find it necessary, to
fund raise as an indie developer instead of drawing support from some
big backer who will finance the project.
It's about tradeoffs. If you go straight to a big backer and ask for all the money upfront, you are also likely to be owned by them. They own the IP, they own the studio maybe. If you raise money on your own, you can stay independent, but of course your existence is more precarious. You can use it as leverage and *still* go after big backers. And so on.
Initial funding $2.7 million. Good start, but
unless they have another $25 million hidden somewhere, don't bother
me. Don't brag about a drop in the bucket, show us the full bucket.
Yeah, this is what is called seed funding. There are many stages to a gradual fundraising process. We will definitely get more money as we go. Someone else said "it means nothing without more." That's not really true; landing the seed money means we can hire, build proof of concept stuff, and that smart money people have already given us a big vote of confidence. It's not enough to build the whole game, but it is a solid first step for a business.
Funded by an ESports venture. So, how's this
game going to go against the money men and make an MMORPG instead of
another ESports game? This may be the real challenge this game might
face.
Not worried about this; they invest in more than just esports, and we are not an esports venture.
We're not going to be talking about what we are making for quite some time... this really is business announcement. Super glad to see some of you excited, and totally get the cynicism from other quarters. Very much the start of a journey here!
@Raph. Thanks for the insight and thanks for participating on these forums. I wish you the best of luck with this endeavor, especially with keeping the accountants from trying to take over the project.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
It's strange to me that legends of the mmorpg space like Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid choose, or find it necessary, to fund raise as an indie developer instead of drawing support from some big backer who will finance the project.
Playable Worlds is backed by venture capital (i.e., "support from some big backer.") There's nothing wrong with bootstrapping — I bootstrapped all my companies — but raising VC money isn't remotely analogous to "fund raising as an indie developer."
Initial funding $2.7 million. Good start, but unless they have another $25 million hidden somewhere, don't bother me. Don't brag about a drop in the bucket, show us the full bucket.
In the late 90's and early 2000's, 2.7 million could have developed a new MMO.
[...]
Cool news and all, but it means nothing without two more digits behind that figure.
Seed money is typically used to recruit key hires and start building the key technologies. Startups progress through multiple funding rounds as they evolve and mature. Later rounds involve far larger numbers because startups need more money as they scale up, but it's notable that $2.7M is nearly three times the average.
As for "bragging," it's important to get the word out about funding rounds to attract the kind of talent that is attracted to working at startups, and to make other VCs, partners, and potential partners aware of the opportunity.
Hey all -- just some quick replies to things raised here!
I so wish we could just go back to announcement when game is beta worthy (basically complete) and 3 months from launch.
This is a funding announcement... it was written so that we can attract business attention,not player attention -- otherwise, there would be stuff about the game in it We have to do a funding announcement because when you take venture capital, you end up filing a Form D to the SEC, show up on websites and legal databases, all that. So you want to get your story out there.
Having to do that anyway means it's also a good opportunity to tell the world what you're about so that people interested in working with you might apply. And we're definitely hiring, of course, so that another reason to do it. Can't get many resumes if no one knows you exist.
That doesnt leave much room for a good, or
fair gaming experience for the gaming audience first and foremost. This
oozes themepark, battle royale, microtransaction pit.
That is definitely not what we are making. When GameDaily.biz interviewed me, they asked about the business landscape (interview is here: https://gamedaily.biz/article/1263/raph-kosters-playable-worlds-lands-27m-to-create-a-new-kind-of-mmo) and I said "the path forward that I see is studios that are capable of making
something larger, something that isn’t just consumable content,
something that holds a playerbase for a long time, that drives loyalty
and retention." The part of the quote they didn't use is that I said it's about building trust between the developer and the playerbase.
It's strange to me that legends of the mmorpg
space like Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid choose, or find it necessary, to
fund raise as an indie developer instead of drawing support from some
big backer who will finance the project.
It's about tradeoffs. If you go straight to a big backer and ask for all the money upfront, you are also likely to be owned by them. They own the IP, they own the studio maybe. If you raise money on your own, you can stay independent, but of course your existence is more precarious. You can use it as leverage and *still* go after big backers. And so on.
Initial funding $2.7 million. Good start, but
unless they have another $25 million hidden somewhere, don't bother
me. Don't brag about a drop in the bucket, show us the full bucket.
Yeah, this is what is called seed funding. There are many stages to a gradual fundraising process. We will definitely get more money as we go. Someone else said "it means nothing without more." That's not really true; landing the seed money means we can hire, build proof of concept stuff, and that smart money people have already given us a big vote of confidence. It's not enough to build the whole game, but it is a solid first step for a business.
Funded by an ESports venture. So, how's this
game going to go against the money men and make an MMORPG instead of
another ESports game? This may be the real challenge this game might
face.
Not worried about this; they invest in more than just esports, and we are not an esports venture.
We're not going to be talking about what we are making for quite some time... this really is business announcement. Super glad to see some of you excited, and totally get the cynicism from other quarters. Very much the start of a journey here!
Thanks for poppin in here, Raph! Appreciate the insight!
Finally, the Sandbox Savior we've all been waiting for. What a fresh and novel idea. It's gonna be different this time, guys! 3,427th time is the charm.
Thanks for the insights Raph and wish you the best of luck with your new company. Hopefully we'll have an awesome new MMO to talk about in a few years.
I consider Raph to be one of the few "MMO old guard" who could actually design a great MMO.
Of course, that means "great for me" !
SWG's original design has never been equalled, unfortunately it was butchered after the first 3 years, but that's an old story now.
RK is indeed a legend....
But...
The times have changed- when was the last time he ran a huge project like making s mmorpg?
Being a legend doesn't by any means guarantee success.
Legends of old often fail in modern times. Mmorpg business has gotten way harder than 15+ years ago
I usually agree with you, but not this time. I have the utmost confidence Ralph is going to come up with something that will be good. Whether it is better than that, just have to wait and see.
You see Ralph is one of the few that really understands how sandboxes work without making it a gank fest which most of them end of being. No developer to this day has approached the fun that existed in SWP as broken as it was. If he can come even close to that it should be special.
Oh and as to the money you really don't need large teams to make a MMO as long as you have the right people. Developers that have large staffs end up wasting a large amount of effort and have large coordination issues. Been with enough development projects to know that once you have more than 30 or 40 people, you end up spinning your wheels most of the time because the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing.
What a bunch of cynical people. I thought surely a new sandbox mmo by the guy who pushed the genre in new and exciting places would garner some level of positivity. Nope.
Of course the waiting game sucks, but whens the last time we had an industry giant return to the mmorpg fold? He’s an idea guy who learns from the past (read some of his pieces on Ultima Online or SWG) and can break down and rationalize complex systems.
Finally, the game that is described is what many many non-hardcore pvp gamers have wanted in a sandbox mmorpg. However all this pans out, I’ll maintain cautious optimism.
Hard not to be cynical when every promise of a sandbox mmo has ended with yet another hypermonetized gankfest. Sure, Koster is a godfather among MMO developers, but after a decade of "Ours is different, guys!", the only thing I can muster at this point is "Meh."
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
It's always exciting to see people take on a challenge. Good luck to you sir (not literally, luck has little to do with it!)
Hope you make it to the end of your goal, and whether I personally play it will depend of course on your execution.
Personally, I hope you ignore direct "listen to the players" advice and execute your vision. As you can tell from the WEIRD ideas on funding...we players apparently don't know jack about anything, especially how to start a huge project from scratch and doing the things needed to make it happen. Truly, we have no idea what we want, please show us something special.
And if you don't, well I'm sure you and your team will be the ones most disappointed by it.
His name was also used for Crowfall for similar nostalgia hype. While he might actually be behind this game, he doesn't appear to have any connection with Crowfall post the initial ideas he helped them with. They probably could of saved some funding and read his books.
Few things to point out, he didn't make UO/SWG by himself nor has he made anything of note in the last ~15 years from what I can see.
Wish him luck, but sounds like another promise everything to everyone, too long to care, wait and see situation.
The only name there that was encouraging was RK's, what worries me is that Disney, Marvel, Sony and any Esports company is involved too, those aren't good names when it comes to gaming, instead they are huge red flags. Marvel Belongs to Disney and both have 'financial' concerns that make them a tad questionable, as for Esports, that bubble is likely about to burst so good luck with that!
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
-all fine and dandy. Now, should come radio silence once all initial announcements have finished. Let the writers, devs, engineers, data coders, and artists do their work in peace. No interviews. N o wishing and hoping. SHHHH! Raph keep it all to yourself until there is something more than demos to show!
-turns, and walks away-
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Amathe said: raising VC money isn't remotely analogous to "fund raising as an indie developer."
That's great. I look forward to a refreshing absence of pre-launch cash shops, founder's packages, paid alpha access, and all that sort of thing. Seems to be no need for this indie developer to fund raise. Good work!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It's strange to me that legends of the mmorpg space like Ralph Koster and Brad McQuaid choose, or find it necessary, to fund raise as an indie developer instead of drawing support from some big backer who will finance the project.
Even Brad,i don't mind the guy at all,but so far the past has shown me that he sticks to old ways that were never that good or even good at all.What i accepted early year was fine because we were breaking new ground with online gaming and mmo's,however over time i expect improvements new and unique ideas that make sense.New ideas like automated dungeon finders are NOT good ideas,terrible ideas and make no sense,immersion breaking,so instead of getting better,mmo's have been getting worse.
Well, personal opinions on specific game mechanics aside, I feel largely the same way.
It just feels like another Mr. Irrelevant from 20 years ago trying to cash in on the money-throwing craze.
McQuaid, Koster, Kern, etc., are all doing the same thing right now.
I'd throw Jacobs in there too, but at least they are developing some really unique systems.
To be fair to Koster, a UO-style game would be far more appealing to the masses than an EQ-style one if he actually did get something released.
However, this is quite clearly a prelude to fundraising of some sort. It's quite clear that there are no publishers who are going to back an MMO, so we know who is footing the bill.
Comments
Raph's new project is the 4th MMO project I know of that is either entirely or 90%+ funded by private investment.
Dual Universe raised €19M, Seed raised €30M, all private investment. Starbase is self-funded (the dev studio actually makes games that sell !)
Is the price of KS "easy money" actually too high in the end ?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
As for "bragging," it's important to get the word out about funding rounds to attract the kind of talent that is attracted to working at startups, and to make other VCs, partners, and potential partners aware of the opportunity.
You see Ralph is one of the few that really understands how sandboxes work without making it a gank fest which most of them end of being. No developer to this day has approached the fun that existed in SWP as broken as it was. If he can come even close to that it should be special.
Oh and as to the money you really don't need large teams to make a MMO as long as you have the right people. Developers that have large staffs end up wasting a large amount of effort and have large coordination issues. Been with enough development projects to know that once you have more than 30 or 40 people, you end up spinning your wheels most of the time because the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing.
Hard not to be cynical when every promise of a sandbox mmo has ended with yet another hypermonetized gankfest. Sure, Koster is a godfather among MMO developers, but after a decade of "Ours is different, guys!", the only thing I can muster at this point is "Meh."
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Do these @$$hats ever F**king learn?!?!
Number one: It's too soon to care about this shit.
Number two: By the time it is ready to care, no body will anymore.
If I SMH any harder I will give myself a concussion.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Few things to point out, he didn't make UO/SWG by himself nor has he made anything of note in the last ~15 years from what I can see.
Wish him luck, but sounds like another promise everything to everyone, too long to care, wait and see situation.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
-turns, and walks away-
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
what a sad world
KickScamster
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests