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Camelot Unchained Beta 2 Open Today to Backers - MMORPG.com

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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited September 2019
    I remember MJ pretty recently saying that - based on team inputs - the game is launching this year. If so then "beta 2" must - pretty much - be the game release version.

    Have I have missed an announcement that 2019 is is no longer planned?


    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,503
    edited September 2019
    gervaise1 said:
    I remember MJ pretty recently saying that - based on team inputs - the game is launching this year. If so then "beta 2" must - pretty much - be the game release version.

    Have I have missed an announcement that 2019 is is no longer planned?


    Someone made mention not too long ago of an update being posted on the backer forums.

    While I am an alpha level tester I never log in to official forums (the white light everywhere burns those who live under the bridge) so no clue what was said, but apparently still not for public consumption. 

     >:) 




    gervaise1

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,238
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    It’s getting harder and harder to believe people here.

    So, what features are still in the concept phase and not in the game?

    What’s missing that would make it a “real beta”?
    Always available beta test environment for starters..... it's been over six years in Dev and 14 months of Beta "One" after all.

    CF, SC, DU are all in Alpha and provide a persistent test environment.


    Yeah soooo I’m still looking for anyone to tell what major features are missing that would make a “real beta”

    all i hear is the same ole bitching that we’ve become accustomed to.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,503
    edited September 2019
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    It’s getting harder and harder to believe people here.

    So, what features are still in the concept phase and not in the game?

    What’s missing that would make it a “real beta”?
    Always available beta test environment for starters..... it's been over six years in Dev and 14 months of Beta "One" after all.

    CF, SC, DU are all in Alpha and provide a persistent test environment.


    Yeah soooo I’m still looking for anyone to tell what major features are missing that would make a “real beta”

    all i hear is the same ole bitching that we’ve become accustomed to.
    If you are going to ignore perfectly valid qualifiers why would anyone bother providing others?

    Oh, how about they drop the NDA? Can't really share too many details about what's missing at this point you know.

     :D 



    YashaX

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Morgenes83Morgenes83 Member UncommonPosts: 201

    bcbully said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to believe people here.



    So, what features are still in the concept phase and not in the game?



    What’s missing that would make it a “real beta”?



    A game world?
    KyleranYashaX

    1997 Meridian 59 'til 2019 ESO 

    Waiting for Camelot Unchained & Pantheon

  • ArteriusArterius Member EpicPosts: 2,847

    bcbully said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to believe people here.



    So, what features are still in the concept phase and not in the game?



    What’s missing that would make it a “real beta”?



    A game world?
    the entire game. Its basically a tech demo
    KyleranYashaX
    Currently playing: Outer Worlds (Xbox One X)

    Currently Reading: Skaven Slayer (Gotrek and Felix Book 2)

    Currently Writing: Champions of Legend Book 1 (3rd Draft)

    Currently Watching: Oz (Season 4), Soprano's (Season 1)


  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,362
    bcbully said:
    Kyleran said:
    bcbully said:
    It’s getting harder and harder to believe people here.

    So, what features are still in the concept phase and not in the game?

    What’s missing that would make it a “real beta”?
    Always available beta test environment for starters..... it's been over six years in Dev and 14 months of Beta "One" after all.

    CF, SC, DU are all in Alpha and provide a persistent test environment.


    Yeah soooo I’m still looking for anyone to tell what major features are missing that would make a “real beta”

    all i hear is the same ole bitching that we’ve become accustomed to.
    There's a strict NDA in effect.  Also, I'm not going to do your work for you.  If you're really curious, just go to their website or Massively and look up what kind of features are currently being added to the game.  You'll see that it's still largely conceptual, and a rough construct of disjointed systems.
    YashaX
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Kyleran said:
    gervaise1 said:
    I remember MJ pretty recently saying that - based on team inputs - the game is launching this year. If so then "beta 2" must - pretty much - be the game release version.

    Have I have missed an announcement that 2019 is is no longer planned?


    Someone made mention not too long ago of an update being posted on the backer forums.

    While I am an alpha level tester I never log in to official forums (the white light everywhere burns those who live under the bridge) so no clue what was said, but apparently still not for public consumption. 

     >:) 






    Found the thread I recalled reading dated 17th June - it was the somewhat acrimonious thread.
    https://massivelyop.com/2019/06/17/camelot-unchained-hardens-up-to-squash-some-bugs-prepares-for-tentative-weekend-test/
    MJ's comments included:

    Mark Jacobs

    Cov, hehe, you mean the release date? If so, the answer is simple, we keep missing our dates so I said I was going to stop giving them. I also said at the time that was one of the reasons we keep the full refund policy going even after this amount of time.

    Now if you mean will we make 2019? I’m sticking to the plan which is until I’m 100% sure that we won’t make 2019, that’s what we want to hit. It’s the same theory as above, just from the other side.

    OTOH, if I’m dancing around something else, let me know, my legs could probably use a break. :)

    3 months ago
    Covynant001
    READER
    Covynant001

    Fair enough, 2019 it is….until you say it isn’t. Goals are good and I know they aren’t guarantees.

    3 months ago
    Mark Jacobs
    READER
    Mark Jacobs

    Thanks Cov.

    BTW, if/when I tell our investors that we can’t make 2019, we’ll tell our Backers right after that.

    As you say, it’s still our goal and we’re hiring towards that end as I’ve been saying in our livestreams. We’ve added some great engineers but we need more if we are going to make it.

    *******************************************


    Now maybe things slip, maybe they don't. And maybe the recent post you mention has more up to date details. Notwithstanding the fact that some stuff could have been held back the implication is that basically the beta is "it".

  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,362
    gervaise1 said:
    Kyleran said:
    gervaise1 said:
    I remember MJ pretty recently saying that - based on team inputs - the game is launching this year. If so then "beta 2" must - pretty much - be the game release version.

    Have I have missed an announcement that 2019 is is no longer planned?


    Someone made mention not too long ago of an update being posted on the backer forums.

    While I am an alpha level tester I never log in to official forums (the white light everywhere burns those who live under the bridge) so no clue what was said, but apparently still not for public consumption. 

     >:) 






    Found the thread I recalled reading dated 17th June - it was the somewhat acrimonious thread.
    https://massivelyop.com/2019/06/17/camelot-unchained-hardens-up-to-squash-some-bugs-prepares-for-tentative-weekend-test/
    MJ's comments included:

    Mark Jacobs

    Cov, hehe, you mean the release date? If so, the answer is simple, we keep missing our dates so I said I was going to stop giving them. I also said at the time that was one of the reasons we keep the full refund policy going even after this amount of time.

    Now if you mean will we make 2019? I’m sticking to the plan which is until I’m 100% sure that we won’t make 2019, that’s what we want to hit. It’s the same theory as above, just from the other side.

    OTOH, if I’m dancing around something else, let me know, my legs could probably use a break. :)

    3 months ago
    Covynant001
    READER
    Covynant001

    Fair enough, 2019 it is….until you say it isn’t. Goals are good and I know they aren’t guarantees.

    3 months ago
    Mark Jacobs
    READER
    Mark Jacobs

    Thanks Cov.

    BTW, if/when I tell our investors that we can’t make 2019, we’ll tell our Backers right after that.

    As you say, it’s still our goal and we’re hiring towards that end as I’ve been saying in our livestreams. We’ve added some great engineers but we need more if we are going to make it.

    *******************************************


    Now maybe things slip, maybe they don't. And maybe the recent post you mention has more up to date details. Notwithstanding the fact that some stuff could have been held back the implication is that basically the beta is "it".

    Unless they have been holding back a tremendous amount of content from the testers, this seems an extreme improbability.  The "beta" still amounts to testing basic game systems, and from all the press they release, that seems to be what they're still developing at this point.
  • natpicknatpick Member UncommonPosts: 271
    Viper482 said:
    Thupli said:
    Nce to see the words Beta Test!

    They are calling it "beta" but it is where most other games call alpha, even pre-alpha in some cases. My bet is it is still 2 years away from any resemblance of a fully functional game. 

    was hoping to get to play this game,so looking forward to it but at my age I fear I wont get that chance,hope the beta goes well and there can get a move on.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    gervaise1 said:
    Kyleran said:
    gervaise1 said:
    I remember MJ pretty recently saying that - based on team inputs - the game is launching this year. If so then "beta 2" must - pretty much - be the game release version.

    Have I have missed an announcement that 2019 is is no longer planned?


    Someone made mention not too long ago of an update being posted on the backer forums.

    While I am an alpha level tester I never log in to official forums (the white light everywhere burns those who live under the bridge) so no clue what was said, but apparently still not for public consumption. 

     >:) 






    Found the thread I recalled reading dated 17th June - it was the somewhat acrimonious thread.
    https://massivelyop.com/2019/06/17/camelot-unchained-hardens-up-to-squash-some-bugs-prepares-for-tentative-weekend-test/
    MJ's comments included:

    Mark Jacobs

    Cov, hehe, you mean the release date? If so, the answer is simple, we keep missing our dates so I said I was going to stop giving them. I also said at the time that was one of the reasons we keep the full refund policy going even after this amount of time.

    Now if you mean will we make 2019? I’m sticking to the plan which is until I’m 100% sure that we won’t make 2019, that’s what we want to hit. It’s the same theory as above, just from the other side.

    OTOH, if I’m dancing around something else, let me know, my legs could probably use a break. :)

    3 months ago
    Covynant001
    READER
    Covynant001

    Fair enough, 2019 it is….until you say it isn’t. Goals are good and I know they aren’t guarantees.

    3 months ago
    Mark Jacobs
    READER
    Mark Jacobs

    Thanks Cov.

    BTW, if/when I tell our investors that we can’t make 2019, we’ll tell our Backers right after that.

    As you say, it’s still our goal and we’re hiring towards that end as I’ve been saying in our livestreams. We’ve added some great engineers but we need more if we are going to make it.

    *******************************************


    Now maybe things slip, maybe they don't. And maybe the recent post you mention has more up to date details. Notwithstanding the fact that some stuff could have been held back the implication is that basically the beta is "it".

    Unless they have been holding back a tremendous amount of content from the testers, this seems an extreme improbability.  The "beta" still amounts to testing basic game systems, and from all the press they release, that seems to be what they're still developing at this point.
    I hear you. However 3 months ago the team believed - still believe? - in a 2019 release. 
    Torval
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,362
    gervaise1 said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Kyleran said:
    gervaise1 said:
    I remember MJ pretty recently saying that - based on team inputs - the game is launching this year. If so then "beta 2" must - pretty much - be the game release version.

    Have I have missed an announcement that 2019 is is no longer planned?


    Someone made mention not too long ago of an update being posted on the backer forums.

    While I am an alpha level tester I never log in to official forums (the white light everywhere burns those who live under the bridge) so no clue what was said, but apparently still not for public consumption. 

     >:) 






    Found the thread I recalled reading dated 17th June - it was the somewhat acrimonious thread.
    https://massivelyop.com/2019/06/17/camelot-unchained-hardens-up-to-squash-some-bugs-prepares-for-tentative-weekend-test/
    MJ's comments included:

    Mark Jacobs

    Cov, hehe, you mean the release date? If so, the answer is simple, we keep missing our dates so I said I was going to stop giving them. I also said at the time that was one of the reasons we keep the full refund policy going even after this amount of time.

    Now if you mean will we make 2019? I’m sticking to the plan which is until I’m 100% sure that we won’t make 2019, that’s what we want to hit. It’s the same theory as above, just from the other side.

    OTOH, if I’m dancing around something else, let me know, my legs could probably use a break. :)

    3 months ago
    Covynant001
    READER
    Covynant001

    Fair enough, 2019 it is….until you say it isn’t. Goals are good and I know they aren’t guarantees.

    3 months ago
    Mark Jacobs
    READER
    Mark Jacobs

    Thanks Cov.

    BTW, if/when I tell our investors that we can’t make 2019, we’ll tell our Backers right after that.

    As you say, it’s still our goal and we’re hiring towards that end as I’ve been saying in our livestreams. We’ve added some great engineers but we need more if we are going to make it.

    *******************************************


    Now maybe things slip, maybe they don't. And maybe the recent post you mention has more up to date details. Notwithstanding the fact that some stuff could have been held back the implication is that basically the beta is "it".

    Unless they have been holding back a tremendous amount of content from the testers, this seems an extreme improbability.  The "beta" still amounts to testing basic game systems, and from all the press they release, that seems to be what they're still developing at this point.
    I hear you. However 3 months ago the team believed - still believe? - in a 2019 release. 
    If there's one thing that we can learn from the development process so far, it's that the developers are atrocious at estimating schedules.  The game was three years late entering into this beta, and again, it's far from an actual beta by modern definition.  I'd be amazed if CU releases within the next two years.  But hey, I'd love to be proven wrong.  I have money riding on it.
    tweedledumb99
  • PurplePepePurplePepe Member UncommonPosts: 87
    Mark Jacobs is in the unenviable position that no matter what he does he will receive criticism. He's been transparent from the very beginning of City State Entertainment to a fault. He's given regular weekly updates to backers and fans and has answered countless questions live. You may not like the speed at which he operates but he has been completely ethical. The Kickstarter for CU was about 6 years ago and MMO's with a team of this size take 8 to 10 years to develop.
    tweedledumb99
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,362
    Mark Jacobs is in the unenviable position that no matter what he does he will receive criticism. He's been transparent from the very beginning of City State Entertainment to a fault. He's given regular weekly updates to backers and fans and has answered countless questions live. You may not like the speed at which he operates but he has been completely ethical. The Kickstarter for CU was about 6 years ago and MMO's with a team of this size take 8 to 10 years to develop.
    Then why didn't they give that time frame to begin with?  I don't believe he's unethical, but I also don't believe that he's being entirely forthcoming about the state of the game and its potential release date.
    KyleranNycteliostweedledumb99
  • TanemundTanemund Member UncommonPosts: 153
    What does Mark Jacobs have on Santa Claus?  I can pinch Mark Jacobs.

    What does Santa Claus have on Mark Jacobs?  Santa delivered once a year.

    Could it be that enough TIME has passed since people were berating Jacobs for ruining DAoC that they've forgiven and forgotten? 

    Could it be that enough TIME has passed that the only people who remember this game might be in the offing are the people who crowd funded it? 

    Could it be that enough TIME has passed so that the target audience this game is aimed at are passed their gaming prime and that it might not sell to main stream gamers today? 

    I guess only TIME will tell.

    The real question is how much more TIME will it take to get the answers to these questions and the answer seems to be a resounding, "I can only speculate at this point."

    I mean even the Chicago Cubs managed to win once every century or so.

    Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.

  • strykr619strykr619 Member UncommonPosts: 281
    edited October 2019
    TheJoda said:
    Is this game launching this decade? I've been a backer since day 1, but three blind turtles can move at a faster development pace.
    Would you prefer a game that is garbage or one that is complete? I have no dog in this fight because RvR isn't my cup of tea but getting it done right the first time is something you should want. Then again a 3 year "beta" is an issue. 
    tweedledumb99
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,503
    edited October 2019
    Mark Jacobs is in the unenviable position that no matter what he does he will receive criticism. He's been transparent from the very beginning of City State Entertainment to a fault. He's given regular weekly updates to backers and fans and has answered countless questions live. You may not like the speed at which he operates but he has been completely ethical. The Kickstarter for CU was about 6 years ago and MMO's with a team of this size take 8 to 10 years to develop.
    Then why didn't they give that time frame to begin with?  I don't believe he's unethical, but I also don't believe that he's being entirely forthcoming about the state of the game and its potential release date.
    Its a bit amazing how any armchair developer "knows" MMOs take a long time to create, yet almost every crowd funding indie Dev lead promised very short timeframes to deliver.

    So is the reason for missing the original timelines by a country mile due to devs outright lying, or do we go with gross incompetence?

    Neither possibility breeds much in the way of confidence in what they tell us today.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • tweedledumb99tweedledumb99 Member UncommonPosts: 290
    edited October 2019
    Kyleran said:
    Mark Jacobs is in the unenviable position that no matter what he does he will receive criticism. He's been transparent from the very beginning of City State Entertainment to a fault. He's given regular weekly updates to backers and fans and has answered countless questions live. You may not like the speed at which he operates but he has been completely ethical. The Kickstarter for CU was about 6 years ago and MMO's with a team of this size take 8 to 10 years to develop.
    Then why didn't they give that time frame to begin with?  I don't believe he's unethical, but I also don't believe that he's being entirely forthcoming about the state of the game and its potential release date.
    Its a bit amazing how any armchair developer "knows" MMOs take a long time to create, yet almost every crowd funding indie Dev lead promised very short timeframes to deliver.

    So is the reason for missing the original timelines by a country mile due to devs outright lying, or do we go with gross incompetence?

    Neither possibility breeds much in the way of confidence in what they tell us today.


    My guess is that it wasnt incompetence or deceit, but a grey area I'll call "HEAVILY INCENTIVIZED OPTIMISM".

    They have every incentive to be as optimistic as possible about deadlines (backer money, more of it and sooner; less chance of losing said money). And they have little incentive to be conservative when publishing (i.e. making public) deadlines for a crowdfunded game that offers full no strings refunds.

    If they had said "ya worst case with hiring and roadbumps is 9 years from now" the game wouldnt have funded and the best we'd have (now or five years from now) would be private emulators of WAR or DAoC.

    So, in the imperfect world we live in, with absolute shit options for people who want Realm vs Realm done right, id rather they do the thing that gives this the highest chance of launching within a decade of starting dev.

    And that thing is HIGHLY INCENTIVIZED OPTIMISM, which is what they've chosen.

    It isn't pretty but if it gets the job done and is fun in 2022, all the current sturm and drang will fall by the wayside.
    BruceYeeKyleran
  • zasgardzasgard Member UncommonPosts: 2
    Hello

    I don't want my question to violate any NDA, but to anyone who is currently in the Camelot Unchained beta...is it worth it?

    I played DAoC back in the day and LOVED that game. I've played WOW since release and can't stand to look at that again. UO, Rift, Neverwinter, Conan....played a lot of MMO's and none of them interest me anymore.

    I'll look over what backer option gets you what, but just want to know if it's worth it even for a part time "time" investment.

    PM if you'd prefer instead of saying something here :)

    Thanks
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 1,995


    It isn't pretty but if it gets the job done and is fun in 2022, all the current sturm and drang will fall by the wayside.
    It really seems like CU, CF and Pantheon are waiting for a publisher to pick them up like Ashes. Amazon could and should for various reasons that would benefit everyone but that's just a hope of mine that'll probably never happen.
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,589
    Kyleran said:
    Mark Jacobs is in the unenviable position that no matter what he does he will receive criticism. He's been transparent from the very beginning of City State Entertainment to a fault. He's given regular weekly updates to backers and fans and has answered countless questions live. You may not like the speed at which he operates but he has been completely ethical. The Kickstarter for CU was about 6 years ago and MMO's with a team of this size take 8 to 10 years to develop.
    Then why didn't they give that time frame to begin with?  I don't believe he's unethical, but I also don't believe that he's being entirely forthcoming about the state of the game and its potential release date.
    Its a bit amazing how any armchair developer "knows" MMOs take a long time to create, yet almost every crowd funding indie Dev lead promised very short timeframes to deliver.

    So is the reason for missing the original timelines by a country mile due to devs outright lying, or do we go with gross incompetence?

    Neither possibility breeds much in the way of confidence in what they tell us today.


    My guess is that it wasnt incompetence or deceit, but a grey area I'll call "HEAVILY INCENTIVIZED OPTIMISM".

    They have every incentive to be as optimistic as possible about deadlines (backer money, more of it and sooner; less chance of losing said money). And they have little incentive to be conservative when publishing (i.e. making public) deadlines for a crowdfunded game that offers full no strings refunds.

    If they had said "ya worst case with hiring and roadbumps is 9 years from now" the game wouldnt have funded and the best we'd have (now or five years from now) would be private emulators of WAR or DAoC.

    So, in the imperfect world we live in, with absolute shit options for people who want Realm vs Realm done right, id rather they do the thing that gives this the highest chance of launching within a decade of starting dev.

    And that thing is HIGHLY INCENTIVIZED OPTIMISM, which is what they've chosen.

    It isn't pretty but if it gets the job done and is fun in 2022, all the current sturm and drang will fall by the wayside.
    I think that thinking it'll be done by 2022 is also HIGHLY INCENTIVIZED OPTIMISM.
  • tinnistinnis Member UncommonPosts: 41
    camelot unchained is still in beta 1.

    beta 2 backers have been periodically invited to selected beta 1 tests for awhile now (e.g. jan 2019+)

    e.g. twitter search

    from:CityStateGames “beta 2” OR “beta2”

    https://bit.ly/2o9LLym

    -

    still beta 2, beta 3 and open beta stages to go.

    and a 'state of the game' update due to come out mid/late october.
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