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Better Combat MMO's
Geeky
Member UncommonPosts: 446
Faceroll 1-9 is our typical MMO hotkey layout and until duel mouse capability is realized hotkeys will continue to be how we manage combat in MMO's. (Aside from the niche market that will be all single mouse controlled combat, those poor souls).
Anyway, hear me out...
In games today we buy our ability, or it's given to us, or we find it either way I'm going to stick with generalizations to make this less wordy.
We buy Slash from our trainer for 5cp. In 5 or 6 level's we get to buy Slash II for 10cp. so on and so forth for the rest of the game.
The only way we are better than every other Slash player on the server is if we get better gear than them. After such amount of time everyone will have that better gear and there really is no saying who's better.
But what if, we can train to be better than others? What if the work we put in actually amounts to us being rewarded with showing that we are better because we worked to be better?
EQ2 went the route of Journeymen, Adept, Expert and Master abilities. However these could, again, all be bought so in reality everyone eventually was going to have all Master level abilities.
WoW, from what I know is even less ambitious, as you get your ability, you wait 5 levels for #2 of that ability so on and so forth.
All games seem to be a form of this one way or another.
But...what if at level 1 you get Slash for 5cp. But you can train Slash.
Slash goes on our hotbar 1. We hit it, we do 5-7 slashing damage. (No gear stats included)
But if we train Slash by either paying currency or paying experience points to the NPC trainer we can get better at it.
(Well, then everyone just pays and we're all the same again, noob) Yes, but we don't just give money/experience/whatever for the a stronger ability, we give it so we (the human behind the wheel) can actually train the ability.
Base Slash will always do it's base damage. So if you don't want to spend the time and/or money to try and make it better you are no worse off. But if you train at it you can make it better....IF....you are better.
You buy Slash, it goes to Hotbar 1, you then tell the trainer "I want to train at making Slash better". "Ok, it's going to cost you 100 exp points / or 10cp for the first session, and you only get three tries."
Deal - I lose 100 exp point.
I then am instructed to engage in combat with the training dummy. When I engage in combat in the middle of my screen pops up a large 6 inch by .25 inch line (hince slash) and I'm told the session lasts for 30 seconds. Countdown timer 3...2...1... Begin!
During those 30 seconds I need to trace the line on my screen as perfectly as possible. I get those entire 30 seconds to do it as many times as possible. The closer I get to tracing it perfectly with a quicker speed the higher my base attack of slash becomes.
So, during that training session the best you could do is 65% base improvement. Ehh...
I return to the trainer and tell him I want to train again. He says Ok, cost doubles, I pay it and I engage in combat. This time the line is 4 inches by .5 inces. Since I've spent more to train (money or exp) I now have a better chance of scoring better. (hence the line being easier to trace) This time I get 80% base improvement, but I'm rich so I want to try again.
He charges me an arm and a leg but this time the line is only 2 inces long and almost an inch wide. Since I've spent the exp training, I'm now rewarded with an additional attempt at getting really good at this ability. I finish my 30 seconds and I now have Slash at a 95% base improvement.
It cost me experience, or money, but I'm better than others and can prove it. Yet, there might be someone out there than can get to 100% improvement. But still, the opportunity is there. And it's not just "given" to everyone.
Now, when I go out and engage in combat, I hit 1 on my hotbar and my Slash is almost twice as good as Noob #2 standing next to me.
Anyway, hear me out...
In games today we buy our ability, or it's given to us, or we find it either way I'm going to stick with generalizations to make this less wordy.
We buy Slash from our trainer for 5cp. In 5 or 6 level's we get to buy Slash II for 10cp. so on and so forth for the rest of the game.
The only way we are better than every other Slash player on the server is if we get better gear than them. After such amount of time everyone will have that better gear and there really is no saying who's better.
But what if, we can train to be better than others? What if the work we put in actually amounts to us being rewarded with showing that we are better because we worked to be better?
EQ2 went the route of Journeymen, Adept, Expert and Master abilities. However these could, again, all be bought so in reality everyone eventually was going to have all Master level abilities.
WoW, from what I know is even less ambitious, as you get your ability, you wait 5 levels for #2 of that ability so on and so forth.
All games seem to be a form of this one way or another.
But...what if at level 1 you get Slash for 5cp. But you can train Slash.
Slash goes on our hotbar 1. We hit it, we do 5-7 slashing damage. (No gear stats included)
But if we train Slash by either paying currency or paying experience points to the NPC trainer we can get better at it.
(Well, then everyone just pays and we're all the same again, noob) Yes, but we don't just give money/experience/whatever for the a stronger ability, we give it so we (the human behind the wheel) can actually train the ability.
Base Slash will always do it's base damage. So if you don't want to spend the time and/or money to try and make it better you are no worse off. But if you train at it you can make it better....IF....you are better.
You buy Slash, it goes to Hotbar 1, you then tell the trainer "I want to train at making Slash better". "Ok, it's going to cost you 100 exp points / or 10cp for the first session, and you only get three tries."
Deal - I lose 100 exp point.
I then am instructed to engage in combat with the training dummy. When I engage in combat in the middle of my screen pops up a large 6 inch by .25 inch line (hince slash) and I'm told the session lasts for 30 seconds. Countdown timer 3...2...1... Begin!
During those 30 seconds I need to trace the line on my screen as perfectly as possible. I get those entire 30 seconds to do it as many times as possible. The closer I get to tracing it perfectly with a quicker speed the higher my base attack of slash becomes.
So, during that training session the best you could do is 65% base improvement. Ehh...
I return to the trainer and tell him I want to train again. He says Ok, cost doubles, I pay it and I engage in combat. This time the line is 4 inches by .5 inces. Since I've spent more to train (money or exp) I now have a better chance of scoring better. (hence the line being easier to trace) This time I get 80% base improvement, but I'm rich so I want to try again.
He charges me an arm and a leg but this time the line is only 2 inces long and almost an inch wide. Since I've spent the exp training, I'm now rewarded with an additional attempt at getting really good at this ability. I finish my 30 seconds and I now have Slash at a 95% base improvement.
It cost me experience, or money, but I'm better than others and can prove it. Yet, there might be someone out there than can get to 100% improvement. But still, the opportunity is there. And it's not just "given" to everyone.
Now, when I go out and engage in combat, I hit 1 on my hotbar and my Slash is almost twice as good as Noob #2 standing next to me.
Comments
It is possible to have puzzles for players to do to prove their skill, and thus make their character stronger as a result. See Puzzle Pirates, for example.
Really, though, however you design the training mechanism, people will train everything to max, and then there's no difference between players--at least if you're relying on the skill of the character rather than that of the player behind the computer.
If you're going to rely on the skill of the player, rather than the character leveling up, why not build combat around that entirely? See, for example, Spiral Knights. Or Kritika Online, before it shut down.
Additionally, you only get 3 attempts at it. Maybe only 1 attempt at it, so then truly the best of the best are demonstrative of the skill.
Lastly, not all abilities are a stright line. Level 1 slash, the most basic ability in the game is that way. Level 20 Double Slash Roundhouse would be a mouse movement pattern with the combination of key presses involved.
Think outside the box. This isn't the solution but there's got to be something better than hiding Master level abilities in raid bosses as a way to differentiate "skills". And, heck, start a movement away from Gear stats as the definition of skill.
it was fun for the first year or two, until those that started early got a ever increasing power gap between them and anyone that started after them. after that, it basically consisted of the few that had been grinding skills for years, steam rolling the many that endlessly tried to catch up. the more time passed, the larger the gap in power, and less fun it was to play.
it just doesn't work.
the reason why the majority of the most popular games ( fps, mobas, even mmos) have few skills, is precisely because the funnest games must be easy to learn, but hard to master. in the end, it should come down to how expertly the player himself uses the given tools ( skills of your avatar) instead of how strong those avatar-skills are compared to other avatars.
I would fire my rifle from range with a mind bar attack, then close in and stab with a little knife I found that put a major dot on the mind bar, and then engaged in close quarters TKA mind attacks.
It was the most fun combat I have experienced.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
You could try to shut down macros by randomizing the locations that a player has to trace out, and making the test short so that a player trying to macro it doesn't have time to prepare. But while "see if you can trace out this path with a mouse" isn't necessarily bad, it belongs as the sort of simple game that a lone programmer creates in his free time, not as a one-time test to determine how strong your skills will forever be in an MMORPG. Getting far into the game and then realizing that your character is forever crippled because you did some skill tests poorly doesn't sound like a good experience.
"Losingplayer" likes PvP
Thanks
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The most satisfying one in MMO is Lost Ark to me in terms of combat just plays very smoothly.
Perhaps this is why so many players playing all the games that have bragging platforms.
I only want a mmorpg to be designed really well,NOT catered ever to pvp or Raids.I want character versatility and NO xp for mundane quests.I want design ideas to make sense,NO somersault nonsense or triple flips in the air or rushing in at break neck speeds from 15 feet away as a common auto start to combat.
I want grouping to matter,i wan the combat design to be catered to grouping but soloing should also be possible at some point or in some fashion.I do NOT want the game to be centered on gear,i want the player/s to make the choices in combat so that combat is not auto decided by gear.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.