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Wow Classic - 4.5 million players stated

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  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,304
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Clearly a failure of epic proportions....we know not what we really want, of course (nostalgia blah blah blah blah). rofl.

    I gave up on my original server choice because it is still full during primetime every freaking day.  
    Nice strawman there.

     >:) 

    What are you talking about? I am literally mocking actual comments made on this very forum by people. Strawman is to change the premise of one's argument....to say I am straw-manning you would have to know exactly whose argument I am addressing, and show how I changed the premise of it. Try again.
    Made my point, you are arguing against points made in other threads in this forum, but almost no one has stated Classic has or will fail IN THIS THREAD, hence a strawman.

    Even @DMKano stated Classic is a 100% success....but is arguing we can expect to see a fairly rapid falloff. 

    I haven't seen any attempt from you to debate this point, or the OPs assertion that there are in fact 4.5M active players, but you have hit "WTF" without comment on almost any post which is contrary.

    Your forum PVP skills could use a bit of honing. 

     >:) 
    You speak of DMKano, as if he's someone of importance.
    He's someone whose opinion I respect,  no value judgements on his importance.

     >:) 
    While I don't agree with all, I respect everyone opinion!

    That being said, you don't need to have a..crystal ball to understand that a MMO will not have the same active players after the first 1..2 ..6 months.

    I mean, beside WoW ( not Classic ), how many MMO's are there who actually gained players for .. years? None. WoW is the only MMO who grew up year after year after year ( until a point of course ). Now, based on the history of MMOs , chances for Classic to keep growing month after month or  year after year is close to none.

    So, DMKano coming and saying to us all how Classic will lose players is not ..News, for me at least. The "problem" is that he keeps ..pushing and pushing his ..ideology to a point where is not necessary at all.

    That's my..take on DMKano :)

    BruceYeekertincheeba

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • agentsi1511agentsi1511 Member UncommonPosts: 36
    Jesus christ, this Op is a fucking moron. By his logic, and by the other websites that do this for retail, retail is sitting at like 20 million players. Fucking idiotic.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 6,934
    IceAge said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Clearly a failure of epic proportions....we know not what we really want, of course (nostalgia blah blah blah blah). rofl.

    I gave up on my original server choice because it is still full during primetime every freaking day.  
    Nice strawman there.

     >:) 

    What are you talking about? I am literally mocking actual comments made on this very forum by people. Strawman is to change the premise of one's argument....to say I am straw-manning you would have to know exactly whose argument I am addressing, and show how I changed the premise of it. Try again.
    Made my point, you are arguing against points made in other threads in this forum, but almost no one has stated Classic has or will fail IN THIS THREAD, hence a strawman.

    Even @DMKano stated Classic is a 100% success....but is arguing we can expect to see a fairly rapid falloff. 

    I haven't seen any attempt from you to debate this point, or the OPs assertion that there are in fact 4.5M active players, but you have hit "WTF" without comment on almost any post which is contrary.

    Your forum PVP skills could use a bit of honing. 

     >:) 
    You speak of DMKano, as if he's someone of importance.
    He's someone whose opinion I respect,  no value judgements on his importance.

     >:) 
    While I don't agree with all, I respect everyone opinion!

    That being said, you don't need to have a..crystal ball to understand that a MMO will not have the same active players after the first 1..2 ..6 months.

    I mean, beside WoW ( not Classic ), how many MMO's are there who actually gained players for .. years? None. WoW is the only MMO who grew up year after year after year ( until a point of course ). Now, based on the history of MMOs , chances for Classic to keep growing month after month or  year after year is close to none.

    So, DMKano coming and saying to us all how Classic will lose players is not ..News, for me at least. The "problem" is that he keeps ..pushing and pushing his ..ideology to a point where is not necessary at all.

    That's my..take on DMKano :)

    Yeah, it is really weird how he wants to point it out over and over again. Duh, classic will lose players. I've noticed this since the Trion days. He's apparently given up on them, but bashing Blizzard has always been a part of his point of view (valid or not).
    IceAge
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,572
    IceAge said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Clearly a failure of epic proportions....we know not what we really want, of course (nostalgia blah blah blah blah). rofl.

    I gave up on my original server choice because it is still full during primetime every freaking day.  
    Nice strawman there.

     >:) 

    What are you talking about? I am literally mocking actual comments made on this very forum by people. Strawman is to change the premise of one's argument....to say I am straw-manning you would have to know exactly whose argument I am addressing, and show how I changed the premise of it. Try again.
    Made my point, you are arguing against points made in other threads in this forum, but almost no one has stated Classic has or will fail IN THIS THREAD, hence a strawman.

    Even @DMKano stated Classic is a 100% success....but is arguing we can expect to see a fairly rapid falloff. 

    I haven't seen any attempt from you to debate this point, or the OPs assertion that there are in fact 4.5M active players, but you have hit "WTF" without comment on almost any post which is contrary.

    Your forum PVP skills could use a bit of honing. 

     >:) 
    You speak of DMKano, as if he's someone of importance.
    He's someone whose opinion I respect,  no value judgements on his importance.

     >:) 
    While I don't agree with all, I respect everyone opinion!

    That being said, you don't need to have a..crystal ball to understand that a MMO will not have the same active players after the first 1..2 ..6 months.

    I mean, beside WoW ( not Classic ), how many MMO's are there who actually gained players for .. years? None. WoW is the only MMO who grew up year after year after year ( until a point of course ). Now, based on the history of MMOs , chances for Classic to keep growing month after month or  year after year is close to none.

    So, DMKano coming and saying to us all how Classic will lose players is not ..News, for me at least. The "problem" is that he keeps ..pushing and pushing his ..ideology to a point where is not necessary at all.

    That's my..take on DMKano :)


    Eve online grew years post launch,  so WoW is not the only one to pull off growth several years post launch.

    There are a few others as well.

    I have no ideology to push at all - just stating things based on different data points.

    What ideology is there to push here? 

    I mean this is a video game forum.

    kertinSovrath
  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,304
    DMKano said:
    IceAge said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Clearly a failure of epic proportions....we know not what we really want, of course (nostalgia blah blah blah blah). rofl.

    I gave up on my original server choice because it is still full during primetime every freaking day.  
    Nice strawman there.

     >:) 

    What are you talking about? I am literally mocking actual comments made on this very forum by people. Strawman is to change the premise of one's argument....to say I am straw-manning you would have to know exactly whose argument I am addressing, and show how I changed the premise of it. Try again.
    Made my point, you are arguing against points made in other threads in this forum, but almost no one has stated Classic has or will fail IN THIS THREAD, hence a strawman.

    Even @DMKano stated Classic is a 100% success....but is arguing we can expect to see a fairly rapid falloff. 

    I haven't seen any attempt from you to debate this point, or the OPs assertion that there are in fact 4.5M active players, but you have hit "WTF" without comment on almost any post which is contrary.

    Your forum PVP skills could use a bit of honing. 

     >:) 
    You speak of DMKano, as if he's someone of importance.
    He's someone whose opinion I respect,  no value judgements on his importance.

     >:) 
    While I don't agree with all, I respect everyone opinion!

    That being said, you don't need to have a..crystal ball to understand that a MMO will not have the same active players after the first 1..2 ..6 months.

    I mean, beside WoW ( not Classic ), how many MMO's are there who actually gained players for .. years? None. WoW is the only MMO who grew up year after year after year ( until a point of course ). Now, based on the history of MMOs , chances for Classic to keep growing month after month or  year after year is close to none.

    So, DMKano coming and saying to us all how Classic will lose players is not ..News, for me at least. The "problem" is that he keeps ..pushing and pushing his ..ideology to a point where is not necessary at all.

    That's my..take on DMKano :)


    Eve online grew years post launch,  so WoW is not the only one to pull off growth several years post launch.

    There are a few others as well.

    I have no ideology to push at all - just stating things based on different data points.

    What ideology is there to push here? 

    I mean this is a video game forum.

    Ok, I forgot about Eve, even so, he very slowly gained players ( more like dual, tripple boxes ).

    But there are few others as well. Which?

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,666
    IceAge said:
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Viper482 said:
    Clearly a failure of epic proportions....we know not what we really want, of course (nostalgia blah blah blah blah). rofl.

    I gave up on my original server choice because it is still full during primetime every freaking day.  
    Nice strawman there.

     >:) 

    What are you talking about? I am literally mocking actual comments made on this very forum by people. Strawman is to change the premise of one's argument....to say I am straw-manning you would have to know exactly whose argument I am addressing, and show how I changed the premise of it. Try again.
    Made my point, you are arguing against points made in other threads in this forum, but almost no one has stated Classic has or will fail IN THIS THREAD, hence a strawman.

    Even @DMKano stated Classic is a 100% success....but is arguing we can expect to see a fairly rapid falloff. 

    I haven't seen any attempt from you to debate this point, or the OPs assertion that there are in fact 4.5M active players, but you have hit "WTF" without comment on almost any post which is contrary.

    Your forum PVP skills could use a bit of honing. 

     >:) 
    You speak of DMKano, as if he's someone of importance.
    He's someone whose opinion I respect,  no value judgements on his importance.

     >:) 
    While I don't agree with all, I respect everyone opinion!

    That being said, you don't need to have a..crystal ball to understand that a MMO will not have the same active players after the first 1..2 ..6 months.

    I mean, beside WoW ( not Classic ), how many MMO's are there who actually gained players for .. years? None. WoW is the only MMO who grew up year after year after year ( until a point of course ). Now, based on the history of MMOs , chances for Classic to keep growing month after month or  year after year is close to none.

    So, DMKano coming and saying to us all how Classic will lose players is not ..News, for me at least. The "problem" is that he keeps ..pushing and pushing his ..ideology to a point where is not necessary at all.

    That's my..take on DMKano :)

    Yeah, it is really weird how he wants to point it out over and over again. Duh, classic will lose players. I've noticed this since the Trion days. He's apparently given up on them, but bashing Blizzard has always been a part of his point of view (valid or not).
    Having the highest post count in every WoW classic thread repeating the same common knowledge things over and over. Almost every WoW classic thread since launch and before has turned into a thread about Kano with what he "predicts" will happen even if he's dead wrong or in this thread now he is the victim with people supposedly on a "crusade" against him in his own words. He is the most effective paid troll I've ever seen being able to completely shift a threads focus til it dies and some fools here are actually promoting a lack of discussion on a discussion board by supporting his behavior. Don't believe me? find me a current live game he paints in a positive light and I'll show you a financial opportunity just like how he mentioned Diablo Immortal in this thread. Right about now is when the paid promotions for Diablo Immortal will be starting, hrmm...how convenient.

    He couldn't prevent WoW classic from being a success but at least he can prevent every single mmorpg.com thread about WoW classic from ever focusing on anything other than him. Well done Mr. Kano, well done. I expect no less from you when AA unchained comes out later this month cause Gamigo probably refused your services.
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,414
    I'm back baby from vacation and will make a Troll priest and may be a Human one too, depends on how much time I have. Mainly holy spec with some disc and 5 points in spirit tap to not go insane while grinding some quests out.
    Jean-Luc_Picardlaserit
    image
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,061
    Kano has been like that for a while now. I remember once I enjoyed his posts, but now he's just doom and gloom and rejoicing about the supposed failure of games. I barely read his posts anymore, they are predictable and boring (and borderline trolling, too, wtf are you doing on the WoW forum if you don't like WoW).
    kertinIceAge
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • vandal5627vandal5627 Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Kano has been like that for a while now. I remember once I enjoyed his posts, but now he's just doom and gloom and rejoicing about the supposed failure of games. I barely read his posts anymore, they are predictable and boring (and borderline trolling, too, wtf are you doing on the WoW forum if you don't like WoW).
    You can say the same about about he majority of people on this forum.  You only calling him out because you don't agree with him and that's the environment that we live in these days.
  • alyndalealyndale Member UncommonPosts: 929
    I agree Jean-Luc

    -and truthfully who really cares one way or the other. Just move on-

    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    John Lennon

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,061
    edited September 16
    Kano has been like that for a while now. I remember once I enjoyed his posts, but now he's just doom and gloom and rejoicing about the supposed failure of games. I barely read his posts anymore, they are predictable and boring (and borderline trolling, too, wtf are you doing on the WoW forum if you don't like WoW).
    You can say the same about about he majority of people on this forum.  You only calling him out because you don't agree with him and that's the environment that we live in these days.
    There are people I often disagree with that I'm enjoying reading because they often surprise me. He's not. He's just posting the same stuff over and over again. Not to mention the bullshit "proofs" he's using like Twitch numbers.
    IceAgeBruceYee
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • vandal5627vandal5627 Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Kano has been like that for a while now. I remember once I enjoyed his posts, but now he's just doom and gloom and rejoicing about the supposed failure of games. I barely read his posts anymore, they are predictable and boring (and borderline trolling, too, wtf are you doing on the WoW forum if you don't like WoW).
    You can say the same about about he majority of people on this forum.  You only calling him out because you don't agree with him and that's the environment that we live in these days.
    There are people I often disagree with that I'm enjoying reading because they often surprise me. He's not. He's just posting the same stuff over and over again. Not to mention the bullshit "proofs" he's using like Twitch numbers.
    Why is it BS?  Any more BS than what the OP was posting?
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,061
    Kano has been like that for a while now. I remember once I enjoyed his posts, but now he's just doom and gloom and rejoicing about the supposed failure of games. I barely read his posts anymore, they are predictable and boring (and borderline trolling, too, wtf are you doing on the WoW forum if you don't like WoW).
    You can say the same about about he majority of people on this forum.  You only calling him out because you don't agree with him and that's the environment that we live in these days.
    There are people I often disagree with that I'm enjoying reading because they often surprise me. He's not. He's just posting the same stuff over and over again. Not to mention the bullshit "proofs" he's using like Twitch numbers.
    Why is it BS?  Any more BS than what the OP was posting?
    Same kind. That's why I previously said that we have two clowns in the thread now.
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • vandal5627vandal5627 Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Kano has been like that for a while now. I remember once I enjoyed his posts, but now he's just doom and gloom and rejoicing about the supposed failure of games. I barely read his posts anymore, they are predictable and boring (and borderline trolling, too, wtf are you doing on the WoW forum if you don't like WoW).
    You can say the same about about he majority of people on this forum.  You only calling him out because you don't agree with him and that's the environment that we live in these days.
    There are people I often disagree with that I'm enjoying reading because they often surprise me. He's not. He's just posting the same stuff over and over again. Not to mention the bullshit "proofs" he's using like Twitch numbers.
    Why is it BS?  Any more BS than what the OP was posting?
    Same kind. That's why I previously said that we have two clowns in the thread now.
    2 clowns is an understatement. :)
    Jean-Luc_Picard
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,163
    I could give a crap how many people are playing.

    I'm having a great time and so far the community on my server has been totally awesome.


    Jean-Luc_PicardManWithNoTanIceAge

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,794
    gervaise1 said:
    Torval said:
    DMKano said:
    IceAge said:
    DMKano said:
    Vrika said:
    DMKano said:
    Viper482 said:
    Clearly a failure of epic proportions....we know not what we really want, of course (nostalgia blah blah blah blah). rofl.

    I gave up on my original server choice because it is still full during primetime every freaking day.  


    Some servers will remain very popular while others will not. 

    5 EU servers are showing declining population:



    meanwhile US realms while declining are more populated than EU realms:




    You have to remember that players initially play same game far more hours/day than they'd play long term. Assuming that those numbers are about players connecting to the server, then NA must have gained active players to keep the population stable as that initial rush passes.

    I do believe the population will drop, but honestly I'm at the moment surprised it's not dropping faster.

    It is dropping fast though - after the 1st month, how many stay subbed?

    Also WoW classic has a major issue with lacking content at end game - so as more players level up - more will leave as they hit endgame.

    So the rate of players leaving is likely to increase.
    Is dropping fast? 3 servers on EU going from high to medium and medium to low = dropping fast? Is your math that bad?

    Anyway , reason why in the first week we saw higher que's is because every person and their mother, pushed their normal play time higher then usual and/or took days off from work, etc. to play Classic. 

    Sure, numbers will go down , in-time ( read that well ), but saying it is dropping fast as we speak and giving us twitch numbers as proof ( lol ) , makes you no better then the one giving us 4.5 mil active subs based on chars created. At least that guy with 4.5 mil takes info from in-game and is a bit more trustful then you and your ..twitch numbers ( lol again ).


    You read again - I am not claiming that twitch numbers show player numbers.

    I clearly said that WoW is rapidly losing popularity on twitch and that usually reflects waning interest in game.

    Also I said that WoW classic is not growing anymore as they stopped adding half a dozen servers every week.

    Again please read what I am saying carefully before coming up with this bullshit conclusion where I am equating twitch views with subscription numbers - I have never said this- please go read again.



    The whole twisting of what I am actually saying into something I never claimed is laughable. 

    Here so that there is no mistaking what I have actually said - made it easy for you - highlighted:




    Ok clearly I am talking about twitch popularity, hello?
    It seems reasonable that overall interest follows the trend on Twitch.

    Questions I want answers to - How will Blizzard direct the entire WoW franchise going forward? What will the perceived demographic cross section look like? What aspects of the industry could this impact and what would those look like?

    How many players remain and what their make up looks like will likely determine how Blizzard proceeds and what sort of impact, if any, there is on the rest of the MMO/GaaS corner of the industry. Short term I can see a lot of others trying to bandwagon on this. Long term, less clear.
    Good questions.

    Blizzard will - we can be sure - be looking at the total number of subscribers.

    It seems reasonable to assume that vanilla has some new players and that some previous players have resubbed.  Its also reasonable to assume that people on "current" WoW are now playing on vanilla. (There was even a suggestion in this thread that current's numbers are very low).

    Blizzard will want answers to e.g. the population of vanilla long term; whether people who have moved from current to vanilla will return to current or - maybe - after a fling on vanilla leave and also the longer term impact on current WoW. Other games that have taken this path of relaunching an old version have seen subsequent declines on both their "current" and their "relaunched" versions.


    ---------

    @Iselin above suggested that WoW might be the exception to the "population declines"after launch. However Blizzard pretty much told us that WoW wasn't an exception though: 100M accounts in 10 years means that:
    a) it gained - on average - 10M accounts a year. Exceptional!
    b) it lost - on average - 10M accounts a year. So no different from other mmos. 

    This doesn't tell us whether people started leaving after 1 month or 2 months or - whatever - but it does tell us that WoW lost population. 

    The drop was masked by new sales though. Partly by WoW launching in new regions - Europe 6 months after US; China 6 months later and also - as @Iselin alluded to - attaining "mass popularity". So this time around unless WoW keeps attracting new players we should expect it to decline. Which is what Blizzard expect.
    Good observations.

    Only Blizzard knows if Live numbers have dropped. The poster throwing that out was just making stuff up out of the blue. I seriously doubt there is an exodus from Live to Classic. More likely is that people playing on Live probably rolled a character (or 'toons' to the wow players lol) and maybe hop on it between raids. Hardcore raiders might raid both though.

    The end of winter or beginning of spring 2020 should tell a lot more. I think they will spin up a full progression server at some point after experimenting with Classic. Just based on casual observation I'd say there are as many people interested in BC and WotLK as Classic so Blizz could retool and milk this for quite some time if they're smart about it.

    If it impacts the industry at all it will make them look at rebooting old franchises. Many others have given half-hearted attempts so far, but none have done such a meticulous job at recreating vanilla rulesets. EQ2 does some neat things, but LotRO, AoC, and a few others have been very modest at what they delivered (and that's being nice).
    gervaise1
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,061
    laserit said:
    I could give a crap how many people are playing.

    I'm having a great time and so far the community on my server has been totally awesome.


    Same here. Along with ESO, the best MMO experience there last years for me. Back to the roots.
    laserit
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • OGDeathRowOGDeathRow Member UncommonPosts: 124
    Kano has been like that for a while now. I remember once I enjoyed his posts, but now he's just doom and gloom and rejoicing about the supposed failure of games. I barely read his posts anymore, they are predictable and boring (and borderline trolling, too, wtf are you doing on the WoW forum if you don't like WoW).
    You can say the same about about he majority of people on this forum.  You only calling him out because you don't agree with him and that's the environment that we live in these days.
    There are people I often disagree with that I'm enjoying reading because they often surprise me. He's not. He's just posting the same stuff over and over again. Not to mention the bullshit "proofs" he's using like Twitch numbers.
    Well, in all fairness his "proofs" aka twitch numbers are in fact proof of the decline of peoples interest in the game. Does it talk about players, no, but popularity, yes. Generally you can use twitch numbers to prove a games hype. Its not evidence of playerbase, but overall interest. This thread however is just complete BS.

    Now, I will agree its obvious that interest level drops for ANY game after a few weeks, we dont need twitch numbers to prove it, and id say most readers here know this as well. But you have the same people coming here posting nonsense like this thread trying to make WoW classic seem like the greatest thing in 15 years. And thats great, good for them, im enjoying so many games right now too, i couldnt be happier. But when im told constantly that im wrong (what I consider a good game) cause classic is what a real mmo is suppose to be. Like Kano, I will try and state otherwise.

     All I hear is the great community, how many of you actually go on classic forums? Theres just as much trash talk about the community there as most games. I just read 1 about a rogue who got mad cause he was kicked from the group because he wouldnt let his party roll on a locked chest. Then another 1 about being kicked cause he wasnt a mage, and another about not being able to raid cause hes a rogue and with little AoE, another about how they need to do more about the zone chats and how toxic they are and that they should be moderated.......and goes on and on. So maybe even the community isnt the "best" as proclaimed by most fans? I see smack talk about eso toxic community, I can count the amount of toxic moments on 1 hand i exp, im level 50 cp 368 

    People are enjoying it, yes, will it become niche, most likely, so maybe when people stop hyping the classic train to unrealastic goals, posts like kanos wont be posted.
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    edited September 16
    I think the important take away here is that some people enjoy challenging content that strongly encourages group play and cooperation.  There is a financial case to be made to develop new content and games with that in mind.  Population decline or not, the game in its 'classic' variation is doing well and there's a demand for it.

    And bringing up Twitch viewership seems like a pretty odd and erroneous thing to do to compare population numbers.  Twitch isn't WoW.  All Twitch does is show interest from VIEWERS in watching STREAMERS.  Most people that watch Twitch watch it for interest in the game to see it being played (hence why e-sports is so popular) and to see the personalities of the people streaming.  WoW Classic has a lot of grind to it.  I don't think that would be particularly that interesting.  On top of that many of the WoW streamers (one I can think of in particular) is pretty repulsive, so there's that too.

    You'll know that WoW Classic population is in a big decline with some obvious examples.  Twitch numbers isn't it.
    ManWithNoTan
  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 205
    Well, in all fairness his "proofs" aka twitch numbers are in fact proof of the decline of peoples interest in the game.
    Actually, it is nothing more than proof that peoples interest in watching streamers play WoW, not interest in the game itself, has declined.
    PottedPlant22ManWithNoTanIceAge
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 482
    DMKano said:
    IceAge said:
    DMKano said:
    Vrika said:
    DMKano said:
    Viper482 said:
    Clearly a failure of epic proportions....we know not what we really want, of course (nostalgia blah blah blah blah). rofl.

    I gave up on my original server choice because it is still full during primetime every freaking day.  


    Some servers will remain very popular while others will not. 

    5 EU servers are showing declining population:



    meanwhile US realms while declining are more populated than EU realms:




    You have to remember that players initially play same game far more hours/day than they'd play long term. Assuming that those numbers are about players connecting to the server, then NA must have gained active players to keep the population stable as that initial rush passes.

    I do believe the population will drop, but honestly I'm at the moment surprised it's not dropping faster.

    It is dropping fast though - after the 1st month, how many stay subbed?

    Also WoW classic has a major issue with lacking content at end game - so as more players level up - more will leave as they hit endgame.

    So the rate of players leaving is likely to increase.
    Is dropping fast? 3 servers on EU going from high to medium and medium to low = dropping fast? Is your math that bad?

    Anyway , reason why in the first week we saw higher que's is because every person and their mother, pushed their normal play time higher then usual and/or took days off from work, etc. to play Classic. 

    Sure, numbers will go down , in-time ( read that well ), but saying it is dropping fast as we speak and giving us twitch numbers as proof ( lol ) , makes you no better then the one giving us 4.5 mil active subs based on chars created. At least that guy with 4.5 mil takes info from in-game and is a bit more trustful then you and your ..twitch numbers ( lol again ).


    You read again - I am not claiming that twitch numbers show player numbers.

    I clearly said that WoW is rapidly losing popularity on twitch and that usually reflects waning interest in game.

    Also I said that WoW classic is not growing anymore as they stopped adding half a dozen servers every week.

    Again please read what I am saying carefully before coming up with this bullshit conclusion where I am equating twitch views with subscription numbers - I have never said this- please go read again.



    The whole twisting of what I am actually saying into something I never claimed is laughable. 

    Here so that there is no mistaking what I have actually said - made it easy for you - highlighted:




    Ok clearly I am talking about twitch popularity, hello?
    I watched twitch every night for 2 weeks leading up to launch. Once the game launched I was too busy playing the game to be watching the streams anymore. This could account for a lot of the down trending numbers you're showing. 
  • OGDeathRowOGDeathRow Member UncommonPosts: 124
    mmolou said:
    Well, in all fairness his "proofs" aka twitch numbers are in fact proof of the decline of peoples interest in the game.
    Actually, it is nothing more than proof that peoples interest in watching streamers play WoW, not interest in the game itself, has declined.
    You are right, it does show interest in watching, but that adds to overall popularity, even tho it wasnt brought up in this thread, but when it first launched, there was tons of people talking about how great WoW classic is, and would refference twitch numbers since it was being viewed more then Fortnight. We had people making jokes that they were only that high cause people couldnt get into the game. 

    So when it was a +in the classic column for being good, it is accepted. But when used against it, all of a sudden its garbage? Im not saying all forum goers were doing this, but enough were flaunting those twitch numbers as "proof", I feel what Kano is doing isnt that bad, like salt in the wound of those who did run there mouths about views when they favored wow.

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/483341/wow-classic-hits-over-1-1-million-viewers-on-twitch-mmorpg-com/p1

    Look at the first response. It seemed twitch numbers mattered then to a few...
  • DafAtRandomDafAtRandom Member UncommonPosts: 43
    Torval said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Torval said:
    DMKano said:
    IceAge said:
    DMKano said:
    Vrika said:
    DMKano said:
    Viper482 said:
    Clearly a failure of epic proportions....we know not what we really want, of course (nostalgia blah blah blah blah). rofl.

    I gave up on my original server choice because it is still full during primetime every freaking day.  


    Some servers will remain very popular while others will not. 

    5 EU servers are showing declining population:



    meanwhile US realms while declining are more populated than EU realms:




    You have to remember that players initially play same game far more hours/day than they'd play long term. Assuming that those numbers are about players connecting to the server, then NA must have gained active players to keep the population stable as that initial rush passes.

    I do believe the population will drop, but honestly I'm at the moment surprised it's not dropping faster.

    It is dropping fast though - after the 1st month, how many stay subbed?

    Also WoW classic has a major issue with lacking content at end game - so as more players level up - more will leave as they hit endgame.

    So the rate of players leaving is likely to increase.
    Is dropping fast? 3 servers on EU going from high to medium and medium to low = dropping fast? Is your math that bad?

    Anyway , reason why in the first week we saw higher que's is because every person and their mother, pushed their normal play time higher then usual and/or took days off from work, etc. to play Classic. 

    Sure, numbers will go down , in-time ( read that well ), but saying it is dropping fast as we speak and giving us twitch numbers as proof ( lol ) , makes you no better then the one giving us 4.5 mil active subs based on chars created. At least that guy with 4.5 mil takes info from in-game and is a bit more trustful then you and your ..twitch numbers ( lol again ).


    You read again - I am not claiming that twitch numbers show player numbers.

    I clearly said that WoW is rapidly losing popularity on twitch and that usually reflects waning interest in game.

    Also I said that WoW classic is not growing anymore as they stopped adding half a dozen servers every week.

    Again please read what I am saying carefully before coming up with this bullshit conclusion where I am equating twitch views with subscription numbers - I have never said this- please go read again.



    The whole twisting of what I am actually saying into something I never claimed is laughable. 

    Here so that there is no mistaking what I have actually said - made it easy for you - highlighted:




    Ok clearly I am talking about twitch popularity, hello?
    It seems reasonable that overall interest follows the trend on Twitch.

    Questions I want answers to - How will Blizzard direct the entire WoW franchise going forward? What will the perceived demographic cross section look like? What aspects of the industry could this impact and what would those look like?

    How many players remain and what their make up looks like will likely determine how Blizzard proceeds and what sort of impact, if any, there is on the rest of the MMO/GaaS corner of the industry. Short term I can see a lot of others trying to bandwagon on this. Long term, less clear.
    Good questions.

    Blizzard will - we can be sure - be looking at the total number of subscribers.

    It seems reasonable to assume that vanilla has some new players and that some previous players have resubbed.  Its also reasonable to assume that people on "current" WoW are now playing on vanilla. (There was even a suggestion in this thread that current's numbers are very low).

    Blizzard will want answers to e.g. the population of vanilla long term; whether people who have moved from current to vanilla will return to current or - maybe - after a fling on vanilla leave and also the longer term impact on current WoW. Other games that have taken this path of relaunching an old version have seen subsequent declines on both their "current" and their "relaunched" versions.


    ---------

    @Iselin above suggested that WoW might be the exception to the "population declines"after launch. However Blizzard pretty much told us that WoW wasn't an exception though: 100M accounts in 10 years means that:
    a) it gained - on average - 10M accounts a year. Exceptional!
    b) it lost - on average - 10M accounts a year. So no different from other mmos. 

    This doesn't tell us whether people started leaving after 1 month or 2 months or - whatever - but it does tell us that WoW lost population. 

    The drop was masked by new sales though. Partly by WoW launching in new regions - Europe 6 months after US; China 6 months later and also - as @Iselin alluded to - attaining "mass popularity". So this time around unless WoW keeps attracting new players we should expect it to decline. Which is what Blizzard expect.
    Good observations.

    Only Blizzard knows if Live numbers have dropped. The poster throwing that out was just making stuff up out of the blue. I seriously doubt there is an exodus from Live to Classic. More likely is that people playing on Live probably rolled a character (or 'toons' to the wow players lol) and maybe hop on it between raids. Hardcore raiders might raid both though.

    The end of winter or beginning of spring 2020 should tell a lot more. I think they will spin up a full progression server at some point after experimenting with Classic. Just based on casual observation I'd say there are as many people interested in BC and WotLK as Classic so Blizz could retool and milk this for quite some time if they're smart about it.

    If it impacts the industry at all it will make them look at rebooting old franchises. Many others have given half-hearted attempts so far, but none have done such a meticulous job at recreating vanilla rulesets. EQ2 does some neat things, but LotRO, AoC, and a few others have been very modest at what they delivered (and that's being nice).
    EQ2 screwed everything up with the laziest itemization job ever recorded in recent memory.
  • mmoloummolou Member UncommonPosts: 205
    mmolou said:
    Well, in all fairness his "proofs" aka twitch numbers are in fact proof of the decline of peoples interest in the game.
    Actually, it is nothing more than proof that peoples interest in watching streamers play WoW, not interest in the game itself, has declined.
    You are right, it does show interest in watching, but that adds to overall popularity, even tho it wasnt brought up in this thread, but when it first launched, there was tons of people talking about how great WoW classic is, and would refference twitch numbers since it was being viewed more then Fortnight. We had people making jokes that they were only that high cause people couldnt get into the game. 

    So when it was a +in the classic column for being good, it is accepted. But when used against it, all of a sudden its garbage? Im not saying all forum goers were doing this, but enough were flaunting those twitch numbers as "proof", I feel what Kano is doing isnt that bad, like salt in the wound of those who did run there mouths about views when they favored wow.

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/483341/wow-classic-hits-over-1-1-million-viewers-on-twitch-mmorpg-com/p1

    Look at the first response. It seemed twitch numbers mattered then to a few...
    Glancing at that thread, all it really show's is that a couple of streamers garnered a huge amount of viewers while playing Classic.
    If anything, that show's how popular those streamers are/were, more than how popular Classic is/was.
    Could be interesting to see what they are streaming now, and how many viewers they have while doing so.

    The only thing that really matters to me about how popular Classic is, is the population of the server I am currently playing on, and so far, the lowest I have seen that server go, is high.
    It is a funny world we live in.
    We had Empires run by Emperors, we had Kingdoms run by Kings, now we have Countries...
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,163
    edited September 16
    Maybe the twitch numbers are down because the people who were watching it are now playing it.

    just saying 
    PhryBruceYee

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

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