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What is the difference between RvR and Faction vs Faction to you?

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,953
I came across this recently which made me create this thread. Some people said to me that RvR is different from Faction vs Faction.

But how. Going on the Wikipedia page on Realm vs Realm, they even say Faction vs Faction is interchangeable terminology.

So can anybody explain how they are different?  

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Comments

  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 694
    I'm going to have to agree with that assessment.  FvF or RvR are functionally the same thing.  You could easily say Albions are a faction, for example.
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  • SiphaedSiphaed Member RarePosts: 1,107
    I can going by the major PR spin that was done in Warhammer Online pre- and post-launch.   

    Realm vs. Realm is a merit based system of accounting for all accomplishments of all members in a Realm against those of the other Realm.  It is a matter of conflict that takes into account PvE actions as well as PvP actions.  A Realm's dungeoneers could essentially carry the Realm to merit victory against the opposing Realm, even if that other Realm is significantly better in PvP, just based on how points are allocated as well as overall participation progress.

       And thus is how Warhammer failed so hard as well.  The games original emphasis on RvR in consumer advertisement highlighted a large amount of PvP, with very little PvE additive.  However when actually delivered, it was far more PvE with very little PvP.  But the developers still sold PvE and PvP as both contributors to the overall Realm progression.  Because mechanics weighed heavier for PvE, the PvP portion of the game was more or less avoided so that groups could circle-cap PvE objectives for Realm progress.



    As for Faction vs. Faction, it is strictly a PvP term with little-to-no PvE matter within it.  World of Warcraft is the best example of this because its Faction vs. Faction was strictly regulated to PvP progress.   Sure later down the road they added in some PvE-progress areas (Negrand in the first expansion, for example), but the bulk was not that.   No dungeon contributed to a merit of one Faction over the other.   No raid either. they shared zones, shared some quests, and even shared neutral ports in quite a lot of areas.  Only PvP really counted as Faction vs. Faction.
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  • smithclarkson01smithclarkson01 Newbie CommonPosts: 1
    edited September 15
    i dont see the difference FvF or RvR are functionally the same thing. 
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    Post edited by smithclarkson01 on
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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,320
    Both terms only exist in the context of the game to which they apply. So what is "Faction vs. Faction" in one game, for example, may be somewhat different to what it means in another. Same with RvR. The terms could, therefore, be interchangeable or - maybe - could both be used in the same game with different definitions.


    Consider Pirates of the Burning Sea.  

    In addition to the basic small scale PvP (ship vs. ship combat in specific danger zones)  there was an overarching battle for control fought between the various maritime powers. This revolved around major port battles triggered by doing stuff that included "PvE" type activity meaning people who didn't want to "PvP" could support their "realms" struggles through PvE! Port battles generated victory points etc.

    However the game also included "Pirates". Not a "realm", essentially a faction. And their rules were different. 

    I don't think PotBS used either of the terms "RvR" or "faction vs. faction". It simply had a system.

    Or consider EQ1.

    Arguably the very model of PvE. And yet it had more PvP servers than e.g. DAoC had total servers back in the day. And the combat took place between a wide array of different ... factions? realms? both? Its a long time ago but it seemed as though every server was - nominally - different.

    Hence my view is that what these terms means is very much game specific. What might be RvR in one game might be called faction vs. faction in another even though they are "the same". Or RvR in one might be different to RvR in another.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,187
    edited September 14
    I think Crowfall intends to further muddy the waters on this topic.

    There are three realms in CF, but they intend to add in Guild vs guild, which is essentially faction Vs faction. Meaning, you can be in the same realm but in opposing factions within that Realm.

    I do not know how they plan to make this a reality, I am going on what I read and what was told to me. So you can still have RvR, but you can also have FvF. 

    I could be completely wrong on this as I have not checked that game out in a few weeks, but even if this is inaccurate it would be one answer to the question 

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,715
    I don't know if there is....but to me games with faction based pvp are just mindless open world pvp and some instanced battlegrounds. In RvR the game is built around the war between the realms and typically has areas that can be controlled within the game, not some instanced season crap like ESO and GW2. 
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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,025
    edited September 14
    Depending how the game is designed they can be the exact same thing.
    The can also be quite different. For example, Realm vs Realm can specifically mean Server vs Server where all player factions within a server are friendly (GW2?).

    On the other hand, Faction vs Faction has the potential of implementing more varied features directly tied to lore. For example, it could be the traditional FvF like WoW. But it can also be done in a way where the lore (and game design limitations) may or may not allow a player to betray their faction, join the opposing side and possibly face repercussions for it. You could also become neutral and either do stuff for both factions or help neither.

    TLDR; FvF is defined by the lore of the game. RvR is more of a IRL client/host side feature.

    My thoughts.

    EDIT: my answer is based on Realm being an alternate name for servers like WoW does. If we are talking about Realms as in kingdoms, etc, then that's just a faction.




  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,924
    I think FvF can include more different types of PvP than RvR. Realms are determined by the developer and factions could be that as well but they could also be player created factions like guilds or even cities as is the case in Ashes.
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  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,973
    It's the size . in a realm , you can have many factions
    Realm vs Realm is a mechanic that united the factions while faction vs faction is more chaotic .

    For example archeage
    The lore was realm vs realm (west vs east) but the gameplay is faction vs faction , because green kill each other more than they kill red XD

    Basically , a realm is a mechanic make by developer while faction is create by players .
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,552
    There is no difference between factions and realms. The term RvR was originated with Dark Age of Camelot which encompassed 3 separate warring factions instead of the usual 2. This is where RvR came from and what it represents. So RvR is not the same as FvF because its 3 or more instead of just 2 warring factions.
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  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    Technically there are probably no difference.

    But I think RvR end up being used to call games where almost the entire game play is about fighting opponent faction.


  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,953
    edited September 14
    iixviiiix said:
    It's the size . in a realm , you can have many factions
    Realm vs Realm is a mechanic that united the factions while faction vs faction is more chaotic .

    For example archeage
    The lore was realm vs realm (west vs east) but the gameplay is faction vs faction , because green kill each other more than they kill red XD

    Basically , a realm is a mechanic make by developer while faction is create by players .
    so WoW is Realms then since teams arent made by the players?

    image

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 1,102
    RvR is just a term to describe games such as daoc, warhammer, gw2 wvw map, eso rvr map, CU...  (I dont' know if I miss any)

    Try to find the difference between these type of game and other games which aren't being called RvR.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,973
    edited September 14
    iixviiiix said:
    It's the size . in a realm , you can have many factions
    Realm vs Realm is a mechanic that united the factions while faction vs faction is more chaotic .

    For example archeage
    The lore was realm vs realm (west vs east) but the gameplay is faction vs faction , because green kill each other more than they kill red XD

    Basically , a realm is a mechanic make by developer while faction is create by players .
    so WoW is Realms then since teams arent made by the players?
    If  you said so .

    While the concept is like you said , it depend on what people call it . You can't stop Narius calling diablo 3 MMO
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,102
    Is there any difference? Though I consider RvR more of an overall style of game design(something WAR didn't understand at all and kept failing) where FvF is more of a game mode.

    RvR = DAoC
    FvF = Alterac Valley(or something) / WAR's lakes
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,924
    Gorwe said:
    Is there any difference? Though I consider RvR more of an overall style of game design(something WAR didn't understand at all and kept failing) where FvF is more of a game mode.

    RvR = DAoC
    FvF = Alterac Valley(or something) / WAR's lakes
    The RvR lakes were not really a bad idea. They were meant to be lowbee RvR not unlike what DAoC added after release as a place for low level players to get taste of the end game. They were also integrated as part of the open world, not instances as the DAoC low level practice keeps were, and that was also not a bad thing.

    The mistake they made was adding WOW-like scenario PvP to it and making that the premiere way of getting XP while leveling. War bands were constantly losing a big chunk of their players whenever their scenario PvP popped. Additionally players were so used to the large XP gains in those and the piss poor XP in the real RvR for everything except conquering keeps that swapping keeps (they were routinely abandoned after capture) for XP became the WAR thing in RvR.

    They did try to fine tune the XP disparity but by then it was too late.
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  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,102
    edited September 15
    Iselin said:
    Gorwe said:
    Is there any difference? Though I consider RvR more of an overall style of game design(something WAR didn't understand at all and kept failing) where FvF is more of a game mode.

    RvR = DAoC
    FvF = Alterac Valley(or something) / WAR's lakes
    The RvR lakes were not really a bad idea. They were meant to be lowbee RvR not unlike what DAoC added after release as a place for low level players to get taste of the end game. They were also integrated as part of the open world, not instances as the DAoC low level practice keeps were, and that was also not a bad thing.

    The mistake they made was adding WOW-like scenario PvP to it and making that the premiere way of getting XP while leveling. War bands were constantly losing a big chunk of their players whenever their scenario PvP popped. Additionally players were so used to the large XP gains in those and the piss poor XP in the real RvR for everything except conquering keeps that swapping keeps (they were routinely abandoned after capture) for XP became the WAR thing in RvR.

    They did try to fine tune the XP disparity but by then it was too late.
    The entire design of WAR was, frankly, horrible. Everything competed with everything(for player attention), Bind on Pickup with Bind to Character, keep swaps, uninspired PvE etc etc.

    If the game wasn't named and inspired after Warhammer, nobody would even care about it. Why would you when you've got far superior options for PvE and as for FvF...even full RvR...EvE / DAoC etc are(and were) always an option. A much better option imo.

    Don't get me wrong, playing WAR felt very good and it was inspired by Warhammer(and a perfect gateway drug), but it wasn't really any kind of a gem, was it?
    Post edited by Gorwe on
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 3,938
    I don't think it means much in general.  You could say realms are more coalitions of factions.  But it's just nitpicking and interpretation.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,874
    edited September 14
    Its really very simple ..

     Warhammer and DAoC are RvR ..

      Everything else isnt ...to date

     The reasons are obvious if you kick start your brain and try
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  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,187
    Scorchien said:
    Its really very simple ..

     Warhammer and DAoC are RvR ..

      Everything else isnt ...to date

     The reasons are obvious if you kick start your brain and try
    What about PS2? Pretty much the same design ad DaOC...well core concept anyway, the execution if pretty basic compared to DAoC.

    Or the example I used above (Crowfall), three realms fighting each other, and within these realms you can have factions that fight one another. This to me seems like a pretty clear cut difference.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,464
    Both are normally if not always a joke.
    Rvr or FvF usually means 2 to 3 ROFLMAO,if that isn't like the laziest effort,then idk what is.

    if you are going to have realms and or factions,there had better be at the very minimum 20+ and NOT 2 or 3 lol.This is the kind of half assed lazy effort i keep saying game to game,nobody is putting any effort into their games anymore.

    What dev studios are doing a lot of is taking your money,often for no reason other than we are stupid enough to give it to them.

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  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,102
    Scorchien said:
    Its really very simple ..

     Warhammer and DAoC are RvR ..

      Everything else isnt ...to date

     The reasons are obvious if you kick start your brain and try
    No. You are missing a fine detail.

    Warhammer Online is also a Faction vs Faction game, just a large one. Don't let big numbers get to you.

    DAoC and EvE are perfect examples of RvR done right. Everything is built around the concept of "Realms"(large scale alliances basically): PvE, PvP, Crafting, Classes...you name it. And no matter what you prefer to do, you are helping your Realm(naturally, PvP is often the main activity, but it don't need to be tbh - you could perfectly have more of a PvE RvR game). Again, do note that PvP / FvF / PvE / etc are "GAME MODES" while RvR (should be) a "GAMEPLAY DESIGN STYLE".

    Large scale PvP != RvR. Imo(but probably is true anyhow).
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,782
    edited September 15
    Smh guys...  

    Realms are “servers”.

    Factions are like minded groups on servers...

     
  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 2,519
    A realm is like a whole land where as a faction is a group within a land but sometimes faction can be used in place of realm.

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  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,102
    bcbully said:
    Smh guys...  

    Realms are “servers”.

    Factions are like minded groups on servers...

     
    Hm, this is definitely interesting. Kinda like GW 2 did it, where it fostered a kind of pride of your server, kinda like sports do it.

    But it feeds back into my point. Just that you don't have R vs G vs B, you have Server 1 vs Server 2 vs Server 3. It still has to have a very specific design. Same thing, just differently executed.
    bcbully
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