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Clear something up for me. Was Trion Worlds at fault for Archeage's flopping?

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,387
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
I am getting information from all over the place on this.
Clear something up for me. Was Trion Worlds at fault for Archeage's flopping?
Or was it the eastern Developer at fault for the P2W model in the West? 
Was Trion truly responsible for Archeage Unchained or the new Publisher company that bought out Trion Worlds? 

Who was at fault in all of this?

Philosophy of MMO Game Design

Gdemami

Comments

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Honestly, at start, not so much. A lot of the leaving was because exploits were handled so late, which only XLGames could fix, like all the landhacking and stuff. Later on, it became more-so Trion with multiple Fresh Starts trying to milk money off of the same people over and over, which of course they blamed on XLGames. AA did change how Trion ended up trying to monetize their other games for sure with almost every game after having 150$ tier "founder packs" and each Fresh Start also having 150$ tier founder packs. Overall, it was a good mix of both. Some people will say that XL was to blame before Jack Song (the original creator) came back to 'officially' oversee the game, so the recent changes are of his doing and 'can only go up from there' with the current game supposedly being less p2w due to hiram gear, but honestly, I think any 'positivity' is from wanting the game to just succeed just like so many people thought it would when they played the alpha. I'm doubtful, but hopefully they can prove me wrong.
    PsYcHoGBRDibdabsKyleranGdemamiScot
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
    edited August 2019
    Why not both ?
    It was Trino's stupidity and LX's greedy doing fusion dance that created a flop .
    Gdemami
  • krgwynnekrgwynne Member UncommonPosts: 119
    hiram gear fixes alot of the mechanic problems the game had gear wise but whales can still lvl it up way faster. what killed the game early on was the bad gear crafting mechanics more than anything else, was super slow and unless you were spending lots not really worth the effort plus was very rng.
    ultimateduck
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,685
    Trion might have made up excuses for the cash shop as it became more and more P2W, but the cash shop itself was XL and always XL.  And it being P2W was to be expected since it was from the original game (which was also XL)
    PhryKyleran
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Trion couldn't make it a success, but i doubt any other Publisher could have done any better, the games predatory monetisation was after all wholly an XLGames thing, they designed the game around the cash shop and how intrusive the cash shop was in the game itself, i doubt even CDPR could have made it a success, assuming they would even have anything to do with XLGames in the first place. Gamigo and XLGames, birds of a feather. :/
    cheebaDibdabsceratop001
  • ColonizerJColonizerJ Newbie CommonPosts: 14
    I'm from the eastern hemisphere and I can confirm, the default business model for most if not all of the game devs/publishers here is a p2w model.

    I could barely count with the number of fingers I have how many aren't. I think they're counting on the addiction of feeling (or the illusion of being) strong in a virtual world through paying real money.

    Which is sad. A lot of games developed here had potential. :disappointed:
    Kyleran
  • RenndRennd Member UncommonPosts: 37
    I think Trion just excused themselves by blaming XL or at least the playerbase did it for them.

    They are developing and publishing Trove. What is the excuse for the shit they are pulling over there?


    But hey, its much easier to blame someone else, sadly you can't do it when you are both the developer and publisher.

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Lets not also forget about Trion trying to charge people multipl times for 150$ founder packs. Chargebacks got so bad around that time that banks were notifying customers of Trion being a scam company.
    Phry
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Albatroes said:
    Lets not also forget about Trion trying to charge people multipl times for 150$ founder packs. Chargebacks got so bad around that time that banks were notifying customers of Trion being a scam company.
    While i don't disagree that some could consider XLGames to be a scam company, its just sad that Trion got involved with them, seems more like Trion became the scapegoat for XLGames activities. :/
  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 3,203
    I really liked Archeage at launch, despite it's problems with bugs and trying (for ages!) to find a place to build on.  I loved chugging along on my little steam cart, trading and growing crops... once I found somewhere to claim.  Then it got annoying with the labour points system being so restrictive to be able to do anything... which of course encouraged people to pay money to get points.  After that it just went crazy P2W and the game just lost all its appeal to me.
    ultimateduck
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Trion ended up showing their true face once money became thin.No care for their games but loads of care trying to create ridiculous pay schemes like their laughable $100 loot box.

    I thought Archeage had promise,but at the same time i realize Trion was never going to make an impact on the developers decisions.

    What bothered me most was how Trion handled the game after receiving the publishing rights.Trion did nothing for about 2-3 months,instead fully marketing their in house games that were imo total rubbish.AA is/was imo every bit as good as Rift,they needed to market from the get go and try their best to make a few changes,they literally did nothing but sit on a contract to make a few dollars because they were beginning to hurt financially.

    Big picture,Trion was poorly run and never had the team with vision or to make great games,much more atuned to being an Indie developer.
    Dibdabs

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,505
    There is one thing I really blame Trion for.

    Right before launch there was talk about keeping the alpha / beta server open, but restricted to only backers who had bought in with the $150 packages.

    Not sure if it was just a player suggestion or something Trion actually considered but at the time it was a very popular suggestion on the alpha forums which Trion definitely declined to go forward with, disappointing me and many others.

    My guess is Trion could have kept such a server running, but perhaps they needed XLGames's approval even for that, but it was never stated that way. 

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • fcweddfcwedd Member UncommonPosts: 196
    edited August 2019
    One of the best MMO experiences I've ever had was in the ArcheAge Beta.

    After launch, here are the reasons why I quit:

    #1. Pay 2 Win Cash Shop / Gambling Loot Boxes for exclusive OP items, e.g., High-Speed Trading Donkey, etc. It was the worst pay 2 win I've ever seen in a game. This was my biggest reason for quitting.

    #2. This game had more bots than I've ever seen. There were so many... blowing the market out of proportion and making it much more difficult for new players. It went on and on and it seemed that no developer did a single thing about it.

    #3. Every plot was taken. Large guilds with countless alts pretty much dominated and owned everything. It wasn't a reason to quit, but after being filled with such anger due to the blatant P2W, it was the last straw.


    Whoever controlled the cash shop was most at fault. They should be ashamed for this. It was absolutely disgusting.

    I felt robbed because I purchased the $150 pack after having such a great time in the beta, which felt like a totally different game.
    GdemamiKyleranScotkenguru23Vermillion_Raventhal
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 22,981
    I think the moral here is that in a MMO that focus on land as a resource you have to get the distribution of the resources right. If you don't and follow that up with an abusive cash shop you will fail.
    Kylerankenguru23
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 2,256
    edited August 2019
    Here is my reason to quit .
    They keep changing the game without care about people's progress
    Think about it , when you hard grinding weapon become feeding for the new weapon

    And in later stage of game , they keep add shit ton of PVP events that forced player to join or quit
    The gear point go from 5000 to 7000 in first 3 year of release , then gone full rocket power to 12000+ in just 1 year after 3.5 . Yes , they gone full retard after 3.5 , power gap not just double but multiplied many time after 3.5 with the ereno system .

    I , and a lots people can deal with P2W just fine . But we don't want to be in an unstable game where the gameplay change after few months and being forced to do PVP whale feeding to progress .

    For grow up , P2W or other stuffs is just something little . We ready accepted that the world is unfair .
    But we can't play a game that being unstable that will keep throw your progress in trash can what ever they want to .

    Image a country that keep changing money what ever they want to , you will never want to inverst in it .

    Kyleran
  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    iixviiiix said:
    Why not both ?
    It was Trino's stupidity and LX's greedy doing fusion dance that created a flop .
    This is the correct answer.

    Trion really didnt understand the particulars of publishing third party games. They were unable to keep the cost down, and did not properly manage the process. They were used to internally owned products, and really didn't foresee how hard it is to manage third parties.

    XL didnt understand the market, and believed that they could just roll out the existing product, with miminal changes, and do as well as the original rollout (for a fraction of the cost). This is typical of developers who are not used to publishing in multiple markets.
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    Man, I really enjoyed Rift's launch! I guess it was all downhill from there?! ha

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • DeadSpockDeadSpock Member UncommonPosts: 403
    edited August 2019
    Trion lost my respect the moment they went free2play with Rift and that was a week after I purchased Storm Legion expac + 1 year sub ... F U Trion was my reaction.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,254
    Cash shop and obtaining elite gear were the most awful parts of that game. It was an otherwise pretty cool game too.
  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    They could probably disband, and some good employees could start a new company and create a new engine/game from scratch and still beat a lot of the MMORPG's that we're currently waiting for, to market still....

    I'd take a brand new game with a great launch + first year!

    It's a lot more than I give other games...and maybe that's another downside of F2P.

    Maybe I'm TOO quick to cut the chord and move on.

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,292
    DMKano said:


    What killed Trion - crap financial management - made 100s of millions and pissed it all away with nothing to show for it. 

    This was the reality that caused us to move out of the industry. There were people spending money left and right, and doomed to fail... so it was not worth trying to compete with their losses. Trion was not unique in this aspect at all...
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